Nope, to also be fair, if Kerry or River is V's LI, Star ending is not "better".Well then it's your fault for not picking the canon path/s
A little bit like if you romance Panam or Judy and do the Sun ending... it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth even if the ending is good
Oh I agree. I meant the whole package - playing male V with Panam or female V with Judy, and being happy about leaving with the nomads. It's treated as the default way to play by most of the users that argue that the ending is uplifting.Nope, to also be fair, if Kerry or River is V's LI, Star ending is not "better".
A little bit like if you romance Panam or Judy and do the Sun ending... it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth even if the ending is good
"My ending felt underwhelming and anticlimatic, and my V was suddenly out of character." -> "But have you thought about babies with Panam?"
I think say Star ending is can feel cathartic for many which doesn't necessarily include nor exclude happy or uplifting. Even though exact word cathartic is rarely used, I think for people whom endings work, like me it's what they mean.
It's terrible situation where V ends up even in Star but it's also very terrible world. Then there's that there are so many factors that color different players experience, for me I'm familiar with original cyberpunk literature and characters rarely have agenda beside surviving and even in cases they have, they may survive with terrible cost and/or they move to quite different kind of life. Some stories, protagonist doesn't survive. There's case of one novel I can think where protagonists end up having agenda but survive practically by The Act of God (and publisher really wanted a sequel, which author then wrote and which didn't had practically anything to do with the first novel).
So there are different expectations that may simply come from what different people have read or not. This is not to say there's this or that way which is more valid than others regarding how people feel about the endings, but that it's more nuanced and subjective matter than I can think I have actually ended up with any game before.
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What I find most weird is that the Devil Ending could really be considered a "good ending" with all the V's LI.
Maybe I'm wrong, but V come back on earth with no real plan (I suppose in Night City) and have 6 months to leave. So there is really nothing who prevents V living its 6 last months by joining River and his family or by joining Kerry.
And even for Judy and Panam (considering that they left Night City), there is no longer conflict between V and Arasaka (or any Corpo). So nothing also prevents V from crossing the border and Joining Panam and Judy outside Night City.
Maybe I'm wrong, but V come back on earth with no real plan (I suppose in Night City) and have 6 months to leave. So there is really nothing who prevents V living its 6 last months by joining River and his family or by joining Kerry.
And even for Judy and Panam (considering that they left Night City), there is no longer conflict between V and Arasaka (or any Corpo). So nothing also prevents V from crossing the border and Joining Panam and Judy outside Night City.
Also strong incentive to leave Night City (but for Kerry) as V knows, what is said on TV is a lie. Things are likely going to go down between Arasaka (Saburo really) and Militech and neither faction is indifferent about such things as civilian casualties. Saburo has Kujira still there, with fighters and nukes. About last place to remain in Devil ending is Night City.
Which is why I personally think that the Devil ending is the closest we have to a proper open-ended ending for V. There are no implied plans, V can do whatever they want after they come back to Earth. They only have 6 months left, sure, but they can spend them however they like. No inconsistent personality change, no strict paths they couldn't deviate from.
Judy's voicemail in that ending is the same as in the Sun ending, which is kind of weird for her to go "have a nice life V" when she said she'll wait for V to come back. I guess it took too long and she lost hope V will come back and left alone?
Yes, that would have been really brilliant if precisely in this ending which seems at first glance rather "bad" that V finally finds his LI by returning to earth (whatever the one) in a small cinematic (and/or with a few lines of dialogue). No need to make something "big", just a short moment as with Judy in the Star Ending. I'm pretty confident it would make Devil Ending, one of the most popular endings
I imagine V walking up to River's "house" with the whole family to greet her... And V kiss River and said "it's done River, I'm here, finally... really good.
And for Judy's message, I put that on "lack of time" again, because it make no sense indeed (V past few weeks in orbit at max, so she should have wait I think).
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I don't think it would make the Devil ending one of the most popular endings, because the Star ending is still there, and whoever picked that one and went with either Judy or Panam seem to be happy with what they've got, but yeah.
Overall, I like how the Devil ending is written, and that's why I don't consider all of Cyberpunk's endings to be disappointing, but unfortunately for me, when I play RPGs I make choices the character I developed would make, so it's not really a choice, because my V would never side with Arasaka. The Sun ending was quite close in being a satisfactory ending, but because of all that personality railroading it fell short, and it's the kind of... flaw, I guess, that I can't look past.
Overall, I like how the Devil ending is written, and that's why I don't consider all of Cyberpunk's endings to be disappointing, but unfortunately for me, when I play RPGs I make choices the character I developed would make, so it's not really a choice, because my V would never side with Arasaka. The Sun ending was quite close in being a satisfactory ending, but because of all that personality railroading it fell short, and it's the kind of... flaw, I guess, that I can't look past.
Honeslty, if the little cinematic/dialogue lines with Judy are as good as the Star ending and if V leave Night City "alone" with Judy and take a road trip (for meet her grandparents for example and at least live the 6 months together), my heart would swing between the two endings for sure
It could an ending like of this kind (burning all the bridges): "Farewell Night City, I'm done with you and all your mess... My dream is no longer here, because I'm leave with it!"
(For Panam, obviously, it's hard to make a better ending...)
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For male V the Star ending...
There's this intellectual thing, there's is this option for V to go with Alt and that question is take on one of core questions of the Cyberpunk (genre) regarding transhumanism. Before Mikoshi V has learned that Alt is no longer really human but sapient but non human being called Alt. And while game doesn't (thankfully) paint things with big bold letters, scenario where V / player is there is a matter, so there's no need to eat, there's no need for hormones, no sexual drive as that won't have any purpose anymore and so on.
That's actually way more clever way to cover this aspect of transhumanism, than things some players started making up from tabletop lore (cyberpsychosis was balance mechanic to prevent every player to make their builds a tank). Now this allowed cyberpsychosis in CP 2077 also to be covered in clever manner but I digress.
So take this transhumanist change or V to live his mortality, but opportunity for life to continue regardless, that pondering is also a factor there.
Comparing endings to lengths done here, I don't know if they are but different ways to close the book really. Some people play all the endings, some watch different endings from Youtube and Star I can think has lot's of appeal among those who close to book like, they aren't necessarily interested about DLC and that.
In Mikoshi Alt says that whoever stays behind will become a part of her. It doesn't sound like V will have any kind of continued existence if they stay. Or at best they'll exist as some extension of Alt, which to me sounds more like being a self-aware limb.
I have no issues with how the game handles transhumanism themes. I found it refreshing and interesting, but answering that question is a bit difficult because we don't really know what will actually happen to V in cyberspace because Alt is needlessly cryptic. I don't know if V will even continue to exist if they stay in cyberspace. If I don't know that, how can I ponder which is better?
Yeah, there's that, but then related to other things, that could increase odds for V or whatever would become of V to survive in cyberspace.
Fiction can go only so far, even philosophy and I don't know how many players really think this as very important in game question, it is major decision, but it's also sort of crossing to line into our world, where we wonder what future technologies might mean to homo sapiens and it's up to player to ponder those things. At the same time I like that game doesn't go making up answers to questions we don't really have answers for, instead it's a reverse situation, game asks these things from V but of course there's someone playing V.
Well thats an issue too since for some reason CDPR chalked that ending up to be "tHe BaD eNdInG" for some stupid reason.
If anything, it should have been one of the better options, because no-one gets killed and both V and JS understand its a fair option. But apparently blasting up Arasaka tower, killing a ton of people. Are all of Arasaka's employees bad? Just like the are all Star Wars Storm Troopers bad? The obvious anser is no, no they are not. Thus V and co blast and kill their way through people who probably aren't all bad, just to ultimately find out its futile, since V is going to die regardless.
Personally I think there should have been an option to find a way for V and JS to survive, perhaps it could have been a super difficult ending to get with hidden check marks through out the story so that choices would matter come the ending. Similar to how CDPR did it in TW3, the players choices dictated Ciri's fate.
They've really given no stance on what's good or bad. It's people: Streamers, etc., who have dubbed it the "bad" ending. Most people view suicide as a bad thing, regardless of if it's the better option for the individual or not. We won't even get into the religious crap tied to it. But, as you said, in V's case, is it really that bad? Which i believe was the question the ending was intended to inspire, making us question the morality, etc. Personally i feel "devil" is the bad ending, because you basically throw away everything that's been fought for, and give yourself to your enemy.
to me all endings are bad. The Devil is also not just bad, but morally questionable.
The suicide ending is more like a bonus option noone takes seriously, I think. It cuts the game short. Like the "refuse" ending in ME3 or the Shura ending in Sekiro (though in Sekiro there are new bosses, so maybe not a joke ending).
Seriously chosing Cyberspace would probably be a little more appealing if we knew more about Cyberspace. They way Alt describes it, it's Cyberhell at best, V loosing his self at worst.
The Star is only hopeful/happy-ish if you are ok with becoming a tarmac rat and have romanced Judy or Panam (or noone). It sucks for everyone else.
The Sun ending sucks if you have romanced Panam or Judy, but also if you have romanced Kerry or River, because V turns into a distant rich-guy asshole without player input. Honestly, to me, it's the ending that sucks most, because with the way I played, this was suppsed to be the ending that worked best for my V and it just didn't work at all. Not to mention the terrible direction of th final cutscene that makes it look as if V was dying because of space suit malfunction at first. It just sucks all the way through.
The suicide ending is more like a bonus option noone takes seriously, I think. It cuts the game short. Like the "refuse" ending in ME3 or the Shura ending in Sekiro (though in Sekiro there are new bosses, so maybe not a joke ending).
Seriously chosing Cyberspace would probably be a little more appealing if we knew more about Cyberspace. They way Alt describes it, it's Cyberhell at best, V loosing his self at worst.
The Star is only hopeful/happy-ish if you are ok with becoming a tarmac rat and have romanced Judy or Panam (or noone). It sucks for everyone else.
The Sun ending sucks if you have romanced Panam or Judy, but also if you have romanced Kerry or River, because V turns into a distant rich-guy asshole without player input. Honestly, to me, it's the ending that sucks most, because with the way I played, this was suppsed to be the ending that worked best for my V and it just didn't work at all. Not to mention the terrible direction of th final cutscene that makes it look as if V was dying because of space suit malfunction at first. It just sucks all the way through.
It's not a space suit malfunction
It's a "propulsion" system (a jet of gas in the opposite direction where you want to go), it's the only way to go wherever you want in space where there is no gravity, no "air", nothing... (like that)
It looks like a space suit malfunction. Compared with the cryptic dialogue before V leaves the ship, it felt quite omnious. There were discussions about this at the beginning of they year in this very thread, because it just looked weird. And If I see space suits leaking air like this, the first thing that comes to mind is Commander Shepard kicking the bucket in space in the opening sequence of ME2.
Maybe but in ME2, Shepard squirms in all directions to try to get out and die in few seconds (which is obvious in space), while there, V looks (and goes) exactly in the direction opposite to the jet...
And the "leaks" (jets) are exactly at the locations planned to evacuate gas... What a happy coincidence... Two "light" side jets for stabilize the rotation/translation and a dorsal jet to "move forward" (also a happy conicidence)
yup. You are absolutely right. The problem is that at first glance and because of the way the scene is directed, these things just aren't clear and it just added an extra layer of insecurity and confusion on top of the already crappy ending.