[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Martynxas]

I have been wrong over the past few days; I was so caught up in what Alt said in the ending sequence that I did not truly pay attention to the information in the Epilogues, especially the Aldecaldos epilogue. Upon re-examining/replaying two endings, I have reached a new conclusion: there is a happy ending in the game where V definitely lives and survives their condition.

So last night I replayed the ending that I thought was most optimistic of them all, being the Aldecaldos ending with Judy romanced, and I'm actually going to go back on what I've said before in this thread, because I think I was wrong to say there are only definitively bad endings. I don't think the Aldecaldos ending is definitively one where V lives, but it is the only one, I think, where it is heavily implied that V will survive.

Firstly, we need to refer to this comment from @amsquared. From this information, I think we can deduce that V in game does not die when jacking into Mikoshi; in this instance, "Soulkiller" is a tech oriented around Engram copying/moving, and in this instance, it seems more that the full consciousness and "soul" of V is digitized for a short time. This would also explain why the game doesn't just end when you jack in; you play as V's consciousness, so thereby, when V is digitized, it's the real V. There is not "CTRL-V" because V stays alive throughout this scene.

Secondly, we need to refer to the dialogue options at the end of the game. I'll put screenshots below in a spoiler of the ones I find most important, with captions of each. In short, talking with Panam, you can learn that you are taking medicine from Vik that helps (presumably delay or lessen the effects) of your immune system attacking your brain, learn that Panam and the Aldecaldo's have contacts that have "dragged people out of worse cesspits" to paraphrase what she says, and otherwise learn that a lot of the people you're leaving with are legitimately happy in spite of the losses endured.

Thirdly, we need to recognize the actual antagonist of the game. We could argue whether Johnny, Alt, Arasaka, etc are antagonists in various degrees, but there is one true antagonist overall; Night City itself. The very method in which it exists, the social, political, economic issues within it, the corruption and violence, the unrelenting destruction of peoples' lives... if there is any analog "soulkiller", it would be Night City; it sucks you in, tries to imprison you with ideas of "living forever" as a legend, and you then will die, slowly or quickly, and Fade Away, which, with that analysis, makes the "Path of Glory" one of the darkest epilogues as you are faced with that unresolvable dichotomy. So, the only way to succeed, to be happy, to have hope, is to abandon Night City entirely, to get out of the prison of the city and "take life into your own hands".

Fourth, we need to reference the character messages at the end credits (this presumes doing all possible side quests, and doing your best to help everyone); Vik is happy, looking out for you, River is working to try to make Night City better from the inside from being immensely influenced by V, Rogue is still kicking in the Afterlife and seems to have come to terms with Johnny even if not knowing his fate, Kerry is learning to let go of the past and begin again as part of his "Life Loops" philosophy. Judy is "happy for the first time in [her] life" escaping with V into the badlands. This is the only ending where nobody feels truly excluded, and everyone has hope and optimism for the future. I'll come back to Misty at the very end.

Importantly here is Kerry's "Life Loops" philosophy, or if we reference a different game, Fallout: New Vegas's "Dead Money" DLC's "Let Go and Begin Again" message. Letting go of past ambitions, chains that bind us -- this is something Judy mentions when driving out of Night City; she talks about how she dreamed of escaping with Evelyn, and then states how she was saying it noting that she was moving on; letting go to begin again.

Finally, is Misty's tarot cards at the end: "The Chariot, The Lovers, and The Sun". Using this website about Tarot cards and recognizing that, in this game, Tarot seems to be legitimate given Misty's accuracy in her readings, we can come to some implied conclusions based off all the info we had and with these three cards.

The Chariot
"The Chariot predicts success in a specific situation. The success will be clear and powerful, transmitting complete satisfaction and glory."
The Lovers
"The symbolism of the card is obvious: love." (based on what Judy says when giving a Tarot read before Panam arrives, also has to do with family, friends).
The Sun
"The sunlight returns to illuminate our path and eliminate the perils of darkness. Now our path is brighter and free from dangers. A period of serenity and happiness awaits. After difficult periods (darkness), everything is taking a turn for the better. Great personal gratification because a positive moment follows less fortunate ones."

With this in mind, my interpretation at least is that, with friends, a new family, and a likely life-long partner in love, coming out of a dark and oppressive place and set of circumstances, there is a clear and definite path towards success, towards life. V, in this interpretation, will assuredly live given all else we've experienced in the game before this ending.

Spoiler: Screenshots of importance, captions below each screenshot:

View attachment 11095556
This screenshot will be important later in a dialogue moment with Cassidy
View attachment 11095559
Vik's drug helps stave off V's conditions
View attachment 11095562
With the Chariot and Sun cards in mind, we can presume success in finding the contacts...
View attachment 11095568
... and success in getting the necessary help.
View attachment 11095571
Cassidy here gives perhaps a meta-comment on the ending; "if you think it'll all turn out like shit, it will". With this in mind and everything that reassures us, we thereby must conclude that V lives, finds the medication or surgery or whatever else V needs, and that such treatment is successful, and that thought process is constantly supported by everything else said throughout this epilogue.
View attachment 11095574
To me, this is one of the most important elements to the game. "but if I return home... lost then is my glorious renown, yet shall my life long endure". It is only by abandoning Night City, the prison of "glory", and only by "letting go to begin again", that V survives, and that V's "life long endure". This data shard is the most reassuring moment here, especially contrasted by that of the "Path of Glory" ending, where, at least from my interpretation, V is doomed, not only to die from her condition, but to eventually fade away, lost in the prison of souls that is Night City.

TL;DR: I was legitimately wrong. The Aldecaldos ending is, upon re-examination, immensely uplifting, optimistic, hopeful, and, with everything that we are provided, basically guaranteed to result in V living. All the epilogue information here is reassuring, is there to tell us that not only we survived Night City and its terrors, but that our family did, our friends will, and, if romancing Judy/Panam, so will our love.

I say the Aldecaldos/Judy Romance ending is the best since it guarantees Judy escapes her living torment in Night City with someone that makes her "happy for the first time in her life", and so the lesbian V ending is the best possible one in my opinion, which I think kind of sucks since I think a straight V or male V should be able to "save" Judy as well in the Aldealdos path.

Thats what i said to other guy about aldecados ending. People there havent even played those endings, laser focused on those "six months"

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2020

Well I'm glad to see new faces in this thread


First: Story isn't finished as there is DLC planned. Now what that'll be we can only guess.

Second: AGAIN we don't hate the story but the lack of choice = NO REPLAYABILTY

And who knows man if this thread keep gaining more traction maybe there will be something not necessarily good but something. As more people finish I suspect there will be more outcry but it seems bugs have deterred lots of people rn.

Lots of people do finished, mostly pc players, story is smallest complain. That game lacks festures, incomplete, that though more or less people agree with

 

[BGM45]

Thats what i said to other guy about aldecados ending. People there havent even played those endings, laser focused on those "six months"

and you seem to have missed half of the conversations going on. Motsie mentioned tarot back at the beginning of the week. some people have more problems with ctrl-V thing than 6 months. others just don't feel like nomad ending is their thing. ALL OF US complain about choices and replayability.

stop strawmanning, please. it's not as cut and dried of a topic as you're trying to make it seem.

 

[Kikinho]

I have been wrong over the past few days; I was so caught up in what Alt said in the ending sequence that I did not truly pay attention to the information in the Epilogues, especially the Aldecaldos epilogue. Upon re-examining/replaying two endings, I have reached a new conclusion: there is a happy ending in the game where V definitely lives and survives their condition.

So last night I replayed the ending that I thought was most optimistic of them all, being the Aldecaldos ending with Judy romanced, and I'm actually going to go back on what I've said before in this thread, because I think I was wrong to say there are only definitively bad endings. I don't think the Aldecaldos ending is definitively one where V lives, but it is the only one, I think, where it is heavily implied that V will survive.

Firstly, we need to refer to this comment from @amsquared. From this information, I think we can deduce that V in game does not die when jacking into Mikoshi; in this instance, "Soulkiller" is a tech oriented around Engram copying/moving, and in this instance, it seems more that the full consciousness and "soul" of V is digitized for a short time. This would also explain why the game doesn't just end when you jack in; you play as V's consciousness, so thereby, when V is digitized, it's the real V. There is not "CTRL-V" because V stays alive throughout this scene.

Secondly, we need to refer to the dialogue options at the end of the game. I'll put screenshots below in a spoiler of the ones I find most important, with captions of each. In short, talking with Panam, you can learn that you are taking medicine from Vik that helps (presumably delay or lessen the effects) of your immune system attacking your brain, learn that Panam and the Aldecaldo's have contacts that have "dragged people out of worse cesspits" to paraphrase what she says, and otherwise learn that a lot of the people you're leaving with are legitimately happy in spite of the losses endured.

Thirdly, we need to recognize the actual antagonist of the game. We could argue whether Johnny, Alt, Arasaka, etc are antagonists in various degrees, but there is one true antagonist overall; Night City itself. The very method in which it exists, the social, political, economic issues within it, the corruption and violence, the unrelenting destruction of peoples' lives... if there is any analog "soulkiller", it would be Night City; it sucks you in, tries to imprison you with ideas of "living forever" as a legend, and you then will die, slowly or quickly, and Fade Away, which, with that analysis, makes the "Path of Glory" one of the darkest epilogues as you are faced with that unresolvable dichotomy. So, the only way to succeed, to be happy, to have hope, is to abandon Night City entirely, to get out of the prison of the city and "take life into your own hands".

Fourth, we need to reference the character messages at the end credits (this presumes doing all possible side quests, and doing your best to help everyone); Vik is happy, looking out for you, River is working to try to make Night City better from the inside from being immensely influenced by V, Rogue is still kicking in the Afterlife and seems to have come to terms with Johnny even if not knowing his fate, Kerry is learning to let go of the past and begin again as part of his "Life Loops" philosophy. Judy is "happy for the first time in [her] life" escaping with V into the badlands. This is the only ending where nobody feels truly excluded, and everyone has hope and optimism for the future. I'll come back to Misty at the very end.

Importantly here is Kerry's "Life Loops" philosophy, or if we reference a different game, Fallout: New Vegas's "Dead Money" DLC's "Let Go and Begin Again" message. Letting go of past ambitions, chains that bind us -- this is something Judy mentions when driving out of Night City; she talks about how she dreamed of escaping with Evelyn, and then states how she was saying it noting that she was moving on; letting go to begin again.

Finally, is Misty's tarot cards at the end: "The Chariot, The Lovers, and The Sun". Using this website about Tarot cards and recognizing that, in this game, Tarot seems to be legitimate given Misty's accuracy in her readings, we can come to some implied conclusions based off all the info we had and with these three cards.

The Chariot
"The Chariot predicts success in a specific situation. The success will be clear and powerful, transmitting complete satisfaction and glory."
The Lovers
"The symbolism of the card is obvious: love." (based on what Judy says when giving a Tarot read before Panam arrives, also has to do with family, friends).
The Sun
"The sunlight returns to illuminate our path and eliminate the perils of darkness. Now our path is brighter and free from dangers. A period of serenity and happiness awaits. After difficult periods (darkness), everything is taking a turn for the better. Great personal gratification because a positive moment follows less fortunate ones."

With this in mind, my interpretation at least is that, with friends, a new family, and a likely life-long partner in love, coming out of a dark and oppressive place and set of circumstances, there is a clear and definite path towards success, towards life. V, in this interpretation, will assuredly live given all else we've experienced in the game before this ending.

Spoiler: Screenshots of importance, captions below each screenshot:

View attachment 11095556
This screenshot will be important later in a dialogue moment with Cassidy
View attachment 11095559
Vik's drug helps stave off V's conditions
View attachment 11095562
With the Chariot and Sun cards in mind, we can presume success in finding the contacts...
View attachment 11095568
... and success in getting the necessary help.
View attachment 11095571
Cassidy here gives perhaps a meta-comment on the ending; "if you think it'll all turn out like shit, it will". With this in mind and everything that reassures us, we thereby must conclude that V lives, finds the medication or surgery or whatever else V needs, and that such treatment is successful, and that thought process is constantly supported by everything else said throughout this epilogue.
View attachment 11095574
To me, this is one of the most important elements to the game. "but if I return home... lost then is my glorious renown, yet shall my life long endure". It is only by abandoning Night City, the prison of "glory", and only by "letting go to begin again", that V survives, and that V's "life long endure". This data shard is the most reassuring moment here, especially contrasted by that of the "Path of Glory" ending, where, at least from my interpretation, V is doomed, not only to die from her condition, but to eventually fade away, lost in the prison of souls that is Night City.

TL;DR: I was legitimately wrong. The Aldecaldos ending is, upon re-examination, immensely uplifting, optimistic, hopeful, and, with everything that we are provided, basically guaranteed to result in V living. All the epilogue information here is reassuring, is there to tell us that not only we survived Night City and its terrors, but that our family did, our friends will, and, if romancing Judy/Panam, so will our love.

I say the Aldecaldos/Judy Romance ending is the best since it guarantees Judy escapes her living torment in Night City with someone that makes her "happy for the first time in her life", and so the lesbian V ending is the best possible one in my opinion, which I think kind of sucks since I think a straight V or male V should be able to "save" Judy as well in the Aldealdos path.

I am literally in the process of creating a new nomad V atm, to replay the game and go for this path and ending. I wanna see this ending for myself and draw my own coclusion.

What you're saying is very convincing and I believe that you can be right. Of course everyone is allowed to form their own opinion if they like this ending or not. I feel regardless the endings, the whole soulkiller topic should be explored more inside the game.

I personally just wish that Kerry or River would join you too. But anyways, wish me luck with my second playthrough! lol

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2020

I dont talk with you can easily see it with games reception. As ive reading reddit, watching YouTube reviews, critic reviews. There is lot to complain about CP but the story stands.

So you are just telling me that you are watching different kind of "echochambers"?

 

[Simuxas]

I am literally in the process of creating a new nomad V atm, to replay the game and go for this path and ending. I wanna see this ending for myself and draw my own coclusion.

What you're saying is very convincing and I believe that you can be right. Of course everyone is allowed to form their own opinion if they like this ending or not. I feel regardless the endings, the whole soulkiller topic should be explored more inside the game.

I personally just wish that Kerry or River would join you too. But anyways, wish me luck with my second playthrough! lol

 

[Hammerstein]

Thats what i said to other guy about aldecados ending. People there havent even played those endings, laser focused on those "six months"

Does it even matter? As soon as you jack into Mikoshi Alt hits you with Soulkiller. Bang, The End. The original V is now dead.

Then she uploads a copy back into the wiped brain of V, like copying files on a freshly formatted hard drive.

 

[Myajha]

Thats what i said to other guy about aldecados ending. People there havent even played those endings, laser focused on those "six months"

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2020

Lots of people do finished, mostly pc players, story is smallest complain. That game lacks festures, incomplete, that though more or less people agree with

See I have to agree with some people though, that while hope is great and all that, it still doesn't answer the question of replayability, which is the biggest issue here.

I know a lot of people are hyperfocused on a good ending, but realistically the endings are still all the same.

You have 6 months to live... deal with it, cut scene, maybe give the player a touch of hope, maybe not, roll generic voice messages, 45 minute credit scene.

Great I gained hope... on top of a 6 month death sentence. It still doesn't answer the question of fading out or living your life quietly. It still doesn't enhance replayablity, because basically it's still the same ending... with a touch of hope.

 

[MandyZGaming]

I am literally in the process of creating a new nomad V atm, to replay the game and go for this path and ending. I wanna see this ending for myself and draw my own coclusion.

What you're saying is very convincing and I believe that you can be right. Of course everyone is allowed to form their own opinion if they like this ending or not. I feel regardless the endings, the whole soulkiller topic should be explored more inside the game.

I personally just wish that Kerry or River would join you too. But anyways, wish me luck with my second playthrough! lol

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2020

So you are just telling me that you are watching different kind of "echochambers"?

The thing is that I can understand River to not leave the city, as heartbreaking it is. So I´m hoping that one ending in the city is possible for me to be with him.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

What really needs its info about principle of soulkiller work, becouse if serious, we cant say that this is just a copy, or not a copy, we dont have enouth info

Well, by concept, stored data cannot really be transferred, only copied then delete the original, as a stored data is a modified physical state, and you cannot move a physical state without moving what contains it.

 

[sihplak]

Wait, aren't in this ending, dialogs with Alt completely ruins the ending. Where even V says "I was hoping for happy ending" ?

That's what we're led to believe in that moment, because Alt and Johnny are basically still entrapped in Night City, in a sense. V in that moment is separated from everyone except for two "avatars", so-to-speak, of the actual antagonist, being Night City itself. It is in escaping, in Misty's epilogue tarot reading, in Panam's contacts, and in the new family and new beginning you've built that you actually defeat Night City.

Remember, V basically expected to be dead when Dex shot them in the head, which should've been terminal, fatal. It wasn't; despite everything that would've been expected, V survived. Then, V, against all odds, manages to break into Arasaka and separate their self from Johnny. And, yet again, V is faced with terminal odds, and has the initial, human reaction of denial and despair... until, of course, V is able to escape Night City, with the connections, the family, and the path to success and free from danger ahead.

 

[Kikinho]

and you seem to have missed half of the conversations going on. Motsie mentioned tarot back at the beginning of the week. some people have more problems with ctrl-V thing than 6 months. others just don't feel like nomad ending is their thing. ALL OF US complain about choices and replayability.

stop strawmanning, please. it's not as cut and dry of a topic as you're trying to make it seem.

This, we have explored all the nuances around this topic in the past 150 pages.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Maybe if the chip wasn´t destroyed by Dex while shooting us in the head, we just like Jackie could just remove it.

Actually, there is no logical reason why we cannot remove it outside "magic".

 

[Simuxas]

One thing still bothers me with nomad ending. Alt says dna is only acceptign Johnny now. So put Johnny in body, put V in biochip and process reverts, wouldn't it?

Then Johnny gets to do some things before fading away for V. Johnny gets redemption arc as sacrificing for V.

 

[Martynxas]

I am literally in the process of creating a new nomad V atm, to replay the game and go for this path and ending. I wanna see this ending for myself and draw my own coclusion.

What you're saying is very convincing and I believe that you can be right. Of course everyone is allowed to form their own opinion if they like this ending or not. I feel regardless the endings, the whole soulkiller topic should be explored more inside the game.

I personally just wish that Kerry or River would join you too. But anyways, wish me luck with my second playthrough! lol

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2020

So you are just telling me that you are watching different kind of "echochambers"?

Best example is mass effect 3, where ending shit the bricks, that was outrage when every forums literally exploded, YouTube exploded and reddit exploded, thats when you know that it was shit. There is no outrage over story and it wont be, what people want is content, bug fixes, and generally fixing policide, ai and so on

 

[Simuxas]

Best example is mass effect 3, where ending shit the bricks, that was outrage when every forums literally exploded, YouTube exploded and reddit exploded, thats when you know that it was shit. There is no outrage over story and it wont be, what people want is content, bug fixes, and generally fixing policide, ai and so on

Mass Effect 3 took me like couple of days to finish, kind of short game, and it had no many major technical issues. The spotlight always takes the biggest problems/news/issues, so far biggest issues are old gen ports.

 

[MandyZGaming]

One thing still bothers me with nomad ending. Alt says dna is only acceptign Johnny now. So put Johnny in body, put V in biochip and process reverts, wouldn't it?

Then Johnny gets to do some things before fading away for V. Johnny gets redemption arc as sacrificing for V.

Mhhmm, but wouldn´t that sort of kill every romance

 

[Martynxas]

One thing still bothers me with nomad ending. Alt says dna is only acceptign Johnny now. So put Johnny in body, put V in biochip and process reverts, wouldn't it?

Then Johnny gets to do some things before fading away for V. Johnny gets redemption arc as sacrificing for V.

Not happening, no one is creating biochip for V. You need said person to die for chip to activate thats a gambling on itself.

 

[Simuxas]

Mhhmm, but wouldn´t that sort of kill every romance

Dunno, don't rly care much about romances for some reason, sometimes you can't have it all. I will enjoy even the smallest achievement that I can get.

 

[Martynxas]

Mass Effect 3 took me like couple of days to finish, kind of short game, and it had no many major technical issues. The spotlight always takes the biggest problems/news/issues, so far biggest issues are old gen ports.

Well its good thing cs getting shit on, what they did With console is complete cash grab, deceiving of consumer

 

[Kikinho]

Best example is mass effect 3, where ending shit the bricks, that was outrage when every forums literally exploded, YouTube exploded and reddit exploded, thats when you know that it was shit. There is no outrage over story and it wont be, what people want is content, bug fixes, and generally fixing policide, ai and so on

You are still skipping the fact that most people havent seen the endings yet, or saw one and in the process of finding out the truth about the other endings.
Outrage will come in waves. First we had the bug/performance issues, which is still echoed throughm any platforms, then we are seeing the outrage now about cut features, and we will see the outrage about the endings.

People here simply are the kind of people who weren't bothered by the bugs, can overlook the features, but are more passionate about storytelling.

We will get there. Not everyone has the same priorities.

 

[Anrix1]

Thats what i said to other guy about aldecados ending. People there havent even played those endings, laser focused on those "six months"

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2020

Lots of people do finished, mostly pc players, story is smallest complain. That game lacks festures, incomplete, that though more or less people agree with

Buddy the game has only been out for a little over a week trust me there are a ton of people who haven't finished the game yet. Most people don't have tons of free time so it will take them a little longer and that's ok. Give it time.

Also you are ignoring that the issue we have mainly lies in our lack of choice not the story itself.