And that's another problem. They're forcing Johnny hard on us, so he could take our body. It feels like they wanted a game about Silverhand, not V and him taking over the body is just a cherry on top. On a very ugly cake.
Most of my sadness stems from the fact that V's death really just cuts so much short that could have been explored. Not only did it make everything in the game redundant, it affects characters in the game world just like it affects players.
Yep. The character's in the game world know V, not Silverhand V. Well, with the exception of his Ex or whatever. Night City knows V, and to get that all cut short for.. Silverhand? Really?
Your romance partner doesn't want Silverhand, they want V, your friend's don't want silverhand they want V. They have utterly destroyed player agency, and made it redundant. I completely agree.
@Ashii as you said in another thread, they simply lied to us.
And there is no excuse for that.
My disappointment started back when the game was announced. I was expecting a 3rd Person RPG game, where you could choose a class (from a large selection) and have a kind of "The Witcher 3" cyberpunk experience.
Instead we had a bland shooter, fake rpg, with a railroad plot where anything you do it's pointless. In my opinion nothing can fix this game, unless they rewrite entire chapters of the story.
And there is no excuse for that.
My disappointment started back when the game was announced. I was expecting a 3rd Person RPG game, where you could choose a class (from a large selection) and have a kind of "The Witcher 3" cyberpunk experience.
Instead we had a bland shooter, fake rpg, with a railroad plot where anything you do it's pointless. In my opinion nothing can fix this game, unless they rewrite entire chapters of the story.
This may treading into conspiracy theory territory, but I wouldn't doubt this is the case, or rather for the continuation of the IP. With their intended ending, Johnny Silverhand is back to life! V's story in concluded! This means Mike Pondsmith can use the now popularized IP, and I wouldn't doubt his favorite character in a more dynamic way.
I hate it.
I personally prefer a less-defined character that has options and choices in how things happen. When I first heard about increased development of CP77, I hoped for and assumed that it would be more akin to a classic open world RPG like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series in the sense that yes, you might have certain notable traits and a main plot, but still have relative freedoms to do your own thing.
What I'm a sucker for is joinable factions with at least some custom plots. It would've been cool if you could join certain groups in Night City freely or have them at least as unique life paths with in-depth meaning however, beyond a brief prologue and unique dialogue choices here and there. Night City's map is great, with some adjustments it can truly shine and be more interactive.
Imagine being a media guy, a worn down beat cop, a corpo, rockerboy, etc trying to survive or get famous. There is lot of potential from the Cyberpunk world alone, we just need the right game approach to allow us to utilize this potential.
I favor those approaches so much, it's why I keep coming back to Skyrim or Fallout New Vegas or Fallout 4 for example - the mods of course hugely help. I can be somewhat my own master there and team up with who I want to team up, in a way, "roleplay".
I hope that they try this approach more in the follow-up game. I think it is possible while still delivering a spot on main story and engaging side quests, while however minding more who you are or who you represent. In a way, it's an equal or perhaps more work to realize and implement, but if you know that direction from the start and want to go down that way, you should have ample of time to get it done, I think.
The players will thank you.
I do too, but unfortunately, this game was a disappointment. They robbed the player of choice. Fallout 4 and Cyberpunk 2077 might as well have had the same amount of choice in conversations, but the difference is you actually had choice in the outcome of your ending in Fallout 4!!! So Fallout 4 ACTUALLY has more meaningful player choice than Cyberpunk 2077! It's absolutely ridiculous. Not only that I can name off RPG after RPG, that people have criticized for player choice that has MORE actual choice than this game!
Needless to say, I am NOT excited for another addition to the Cyberpunk series. They need to go back to The Witcher if they don't fix this mess. If they did release another Cyberpunk game I would definitely not preorder it, that's for sure. I won't be tricked twice. You know what I don't think I'd even preorder another Witcher game after this travesty! I always thought "cdpr can't go wrong with the story" God I was so wrong.
As much as I love freedom in RPGs, I prefer the way V was made. I'm dead tired of boring protagonists with zero character and emotions. I loved V, because she felt alive. I think she's even now my fav protagonists from any RPG I've played. CDPR could add some more dialogue options for player to define her, sure, but I wouldn't want her to become a shallow protagonist without any personality whatsoever.
Yes! That's why it's such a kick in the face. They made V a good protagonist! I felt for V! Frankly, I was traumatized by Johnny with V! When V says "Leave me the F alone!" You could feel the emotion in her voice!
God. To continue to think I am being manipulated by cdpr like this..
They do V and in extension the player so DIRTY here. I've gotta say I have not felt so strongly about a game's ending as I have here I don't think.
Johnny Silverhand is just an annoyance the whole game, every time he appears you know he'll just bitch or go in a CORP rant, his attitude never changes and when it does is just to sudden, in the Motel.. which is too late.
I can't shake the feeling that a somewhat positive ending exists, but it stayed on the cutting room floor, at least for now. we've known since TW3 that the studio suffers from too many cooks in the kitchen, some of them are high-ranking and very meddling. we also had that reddit post claiming the game was basically assembled together at the last moment, and with the state of it, I am now inclined to believe the post was authentic.
my conspiracy theory is, and I may be completely reaching here - till the last possible moment they couldn't decide the direction they were taking. it's possible they had other endings drafted and made into a prototype, along with different questlines/decisions from earlier in the game that lead to these endings. yet for some reason, they were never implemented or were implemented poorly and had to be later excised because with covid making them work from home, release date looming, a new gen coming out and the reality of their technical situation dawning on them, the studio really didn't have time to work on anything but ports and optimization. with investors and players breathing down their necks and lucrative Christmas holidays closer and closer ahead, I think their only goal in these last weeks was to release at least anything remotely playable and then immediately just go into the full damage control mode.
it's not even that we've never had this situation before - the siege of Novigrad, Iorweth and False Ciri were cut out of the TW3 presumably because they didn't go well with the pacing?.. even though in the final product the 3d act is remarkably empty and uneventful despite technically being a climax of the story. so, in the case where CDPR pull a Neil Druckman, dig their heels and refuse to listen to fans, I expect this to be their response again - "it didn't suit the world/tone/pacing/V's story".
however, if I'm at least 10% right and the positive outcome exists at least in concept, and CDPR don't act like they are beyond reproach with their storytelling, I agree that the only way for them to fix the ending/add the one(s) they had initially is to go the Broken Steel route with a potential meaningful DLC. it is also the only way I see for them not to completely lose face, because just suddenly dropping a patch with its patch notes reading "added missing questlines and endings" is going to be a cherry on top of the PR disaster we already have.
for now the only thing we have is waiting for their response if there is any. it really feels a lot like 2012, lol.
also, on that note - it's quite amusing that the same year Bioware, long fallen from the grace, announces a new ME game retconning the endings to seemingly make the red one canon (Liara in the teaser digs Shep's armor from the rubles of the Citadel/fallen Reapers) the industry's darling CDPR releases the game with the endings on par with original ME3. we've gone the full circle.
my conspiracy theory is, and I may be completely reaching here - till the last possible moment they couldn't decide the direction they were taking. it's possible they had other endings drafted and made into a prototype, along with different questlines/decisions from earlier in the game that lead to these endings. yet for some reason, they were never implemented or were implemented poorly and had to be later excised because with covid making them work from home, release date looming, a new gen coming out and the reality of their technical situation dawning on them, the studio really didn't have time to work on anything but ports and optimization. with investors and players breathing down their necks and lucrative Christmas holidays closer and closer ahead, I think their only goal in these last weeks was to release at least anything remotely playable and then immediately just go into the full damage control mode.
it's not even that we've never had this situation before - the siege of Novigrad, Iorweth and False Ciri were cut out of the TW3 presumably because they didn't go well with the pacing?.. even though in the final product the 3d act is remarkably empty and uneventful despite technically being a climax of the story. so, in the case where CDPR pull a Neil Druckman, dig their heels and refuse to listen to fans, I expect this to be their response again - "it didn't suit the world/tone/pacing/V's story".
however, if I'm at least 10% right and the positive outcome exists at least in concept, and CDPR don't act like they are beyond reproach with their storytelling, I agree that the only way for them to fix the ending/add the one(s) they had initially is to go the Broken Steel route with a potential meaningful DLC. it is also the only way I see for them not to completely lose face, because just suddenly dropping a patch with its patch notes reading "added missing questlines and endings" is going to be a cherry on top of the PR disaster we already have.
for now the only thing we have is waiting for their response if there is any. it really feels a lot like 2012, lol.
also, on that note - it's quite amusing that the same year Bioware, long fallen from the grace, announces a new ME game retconning the endings to seemingly make the red one canon (Liara in the teaser digs Shep's armor from the rubles of the Citadel/fallen Reapers) the industry's darling CDPR releases the game with the endings on par with original ME3. we've gone the full circle.
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I have returned game in steam. I won't continue playing when i know that MC will die anyway and no even ONE!!! normal ending. CDPR i hate you!
This. Totally agreed. Usually when we get to create our own character and the creators intention is for us to embody ourselves on the character we created, the character is mute, forms no lasting relationships and is morally ambiguous, delegating all of those to you, as the player. But in this case, they presented us with a character we fell in love with. We felt the same things V felt. When V saw Evelyn dead, we all felt that. When Judy opened up to V about her childhood, we felt that. When Panam lowered her defenses and let V in her life, we all felt that. And to give us such a lovable and relatable character, and end that story with an abrupt end is just plain wrong...
I'm not saying we need a "good ending". But when all the endings are basically the same bs, we have had our choices made for us already. Might as well get rid of Cyberpunk 2077 as a game and make a movie out of it.
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I think the fact that a lot of u are so emotional about the endings actually is proof of how good the game is.
I understand that you are sad after a sad ending, i have these feelings too, but that means that u were invested in the story and the characters.
Yes cyberpunk is a dystopia and cdpr clearly said that you shouldn't hope for happy endings.
And yes, depending on your endings some characters are sad too, and some end credit scenes are pretty heartbreaking.
But isn't that a good thing? That it is so emotional.
Sure i like happy endings too, but this is what cdpr decided: in night city a happy ending is hard to get.
And i think it is a nice change of pace.
I hope in future story expansions they include cool new side/main story like hearts of stone or blood and wine in the Witcher 3 with some more romances, also serious romances, or continue the story from some endings, i think Nomad and Johnny ending would be best suited. And then just fix some bugs, add some content, rework some things like crafting maybe.
And i think this game would be incredible.
But i like what they have done so far in terms of story and emotional connections to characters.
I understand that you are sad after a sad ending, i have these feelings too, but that means that u were invested in the story and the characters.
Yes cyberpunk is a dystopia and cdpr clearly said that you shouldn't hope for happy endings.
And yes, depending on your endings some characters are sad too, and some end credit scenes are pretty heartbreaking.
But isn't that a good thing? That it is so emotional.
Sure i like happy endings too, but this is what cdpr decided: in night city a happy ending is hard to get.
And i think it is a nice change of pace.
I hope in future story expansions they include cool new side/main story like hearts of stone or blood and wine in the Witcher 3 with some more romances, also serious romances, or continue the story from some endings, i think Nomad and Johnny ending would be best suited. And then just fix some bugs, add some content, rework some things like crafting maybe.
And i think this game would be incredible.
But i like what they have done so far in terms of story and emotional connections to characters.
That's not the point. The issue is not that we don't have a "happy ending". Is that all endings are basically the same, and, whatever choices we made simply applied a different spin on the same ending. Mass Effect 3 all over again. Trust Arasaka? You dead. Ask Nomads for help? You be dead. Have Alt help you? De-e-e-ad. Put a bullet to your head? Welp... Dead.
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Yeah, sure a few choices lead to the same endings, but there are still quite a few different endings.
-Johnny ending
-Suicide
-Becoming engram for arasaka
-Becoming legend of night city
-Travelling away with nomad familly (can even bring Judy with you)
Imo the secret ending should have been a bit different to make it more unique but attleast nobody of your friends dies then.
yes, and in ME3 the endings are "different" too:
- sacrifice yourself and control the reapers;
- sacrifice yourself and merge organics with synthetics;
- sacrifice yourself and just blow everything up.
and in all these endings, none of the choices you've made before really matter. there is a reason why people (me included) were so fervent about indoctrination theory - because at least it gave some meaning to what transpired. it was, you could say, our last choice in how the story really ends.
there is a difference between being emotional because of the impact of the story and being emotional because you were screwed by the story. I was an emotional mess at the end of RDR2 but I never felt cheated. sure, I wished Arthur could just ditch Dutch, not punch Downes, shiv Micah and live his life, but it was never my story to make those decisions. unlike Cyberpunk, where my choices within the framework of the story should be what drives it forward towards a certain end. I ignored Johnny as much as possible, naively thought I could slow down the progress by doing or not doing certain things. yet in the end I've got the same ending, but with a different flavor (or colour, you could say).
You've said it perfectly. We were told our choices matter, but they don't. We headed into this game thinking we'd make a difference, but we don't. We were lied to.
I'm no writer, but I can think of a bunch of "unhappy endings" that are totally different from "YOU ARE DEAD".
- V trusts Arasaka. They say they will remove the Relic from V. They do so, but V's mind is so far gone that Arasaka has no other way to restore V's mind other than to hard reset her. V gets a fresh start free from any binds she ever had, leaving V's lover, friends and life behind. Depending on some life choices, V's mind is so far gone that Arasaka, rathen than reset her, implant her with a new construct. One that will do Arasaka's bidding with no questions asked. V is then used as a pawn to rid Night City of any competition against Arasaka, including V's friends.
- V lets Johnny and Rogue bust Arasaka. Alt manages to remove Johnny's construct from V's mind. But Rogue has once again grown fond of Johnny, and blames V for killing him this time. She sets all her contacts and mercs on a manhunt against V for killing Johnny, making V a fugitive. If V managed to form a lasting relationship with a lover, they will help V skip town and live their lives as Nomads, away from Rogue, always living in fear of her. If V has no lover, V's left alone in Night City, and, while planning the next move on a motel, someone knocks at the door. V asks "Who's there?", and hears a familiar voice. When opening the door V gets hit by a sniper bullet. Rogue is on a nearby roof, reloading her rifle.
- (The infamous good ending) V decides she doesn't want to bring anyone with her to Arasaka. V decides to let Johnny take over their body to let him finish off Arasaka one last time. The player controls Johnny in V's body, but with V's construct appearing once in a while like Johnny did (V would be wearing their initial clothes set), talking to him and so on. When V's construct appears, the player selects the voice lines, and Johnny replies. When Johnny finally destroys Arasaka's servers, all that's left is Mikoshi. Johnny asks Alt for help to destroy it, and both Johnny and Alt get sent to the cyberspace and destroy Mikoshi from inside out. Finishing off what Johnny had left unfinished, as well as finally reuniting with Alt turns Johnny's construct harmless, and V's mind is restored fully. V has only a little time to flee from the crumbling Arasaka tower, while Johnny and Alt share one last song as they corrupt Mikoshi and the Cyberspace.
EDIT- Since Alt's construct is no longer the Alt Johnny knew, Johnny might want to be sent to the Cyberspace because he believes by interacting directly with this Alt's construct, he might be able to restore his Alt, as he knew, so he has a reason to sacrifice himself.
There... Did those in like..... 15 minutes?
- V trusts Arasaka. They say they will remove the Relic from V. They do so, but V's mind is so far gone that Arasaka has no other way to restore V's mind other than to hard reset her. V gets a fresh start free from any binds she ever had, leaving V's lover, friends and life behind. Depending on some life choices, V's mind is so far gone that Arasaka, rathen than reset her, implant her with a new construct. One that will do Arasaka's bidding with no questions asked. V is then used as a pawn to rid Night City of any competition against Arasaka, including V's friends.
- V lets Johnny and Rogue bust Arasaka. Alt manages to remove Johnny's construct from V's mind. But Rogue has once again grown fond of Johnny, and blames V for killing him this time. She sets all her contacts and mercs on a manhunt against V for killing Johnny, making V a fugitive. If V managed to form a lasting relationship with a lover, they will help V skip town and live their lives as Nomads, away from Rogue, always living in fear of her. If V has no lover, V's left alone in Night City, and, while planning the next move on a motel, someone knocks at the door. V asks "Who's there?", and hears a familiar voice. When opening the door V gets hit by a sniper bullet. Rogue is on a nearby roof, reloading her rifle.
- (The infamous good ending) V decides she doesn't want to bring anyone with her to Arasaka. V decides to let Johnny take over their body to let him finish off Arasaka one last time. The player controls Johnny in V's body, but with V's construct appearing once in a while like Johnny did (V would be wearing their initial clothes set), talking to him and so on. When V's construct appears, the player selects the voice lines, and Johnny replies. When Johnny finally destroys Arasaka's servers, all that's left is Mikoshi. Johnny asks Alt for help to destroy it, and both Johnny and Alt get sent to the cyberspace and destroy Mikoshi from inside out. Finishing off what Johnny had left unfinished, as well as finally reuniting with Alt turns Johnny's construct harmless, and V's mind is restored fully. V has only a little time to flee from the crumbling Arasaka tower, while Johnny and Alt share one last song as they corrupt Mikoshi and the Cyberspace.
EDIT- Since Alt's construct is no longer the Alt Johnny knew, Johnny might want to be sent to the Cyberspace because he believes by interacting directly with this Alt's construct, he might be able to restore his Alt, as he knew, so he has a reason to sacrifice himself.
There... Did those in like..... 15 minutes?
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Those are so much more powerful and so much more meaningful I would be satisfied if the game ended like that.