[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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It would be enough to change the part during the Blackwall mission, where AI Alt says that she's gonna turn you into an engram. You tell her to get fucked and that there must be some alternative. This could result in a mission where you have to steal some fancy tech piece.

Actually it would already be enough if the whole "Zapped with Soullkiller" line was gone from the ending. You jack into Mikoshi, just like you jacked into cyberspace with the Voodoo Boys and AI Alt uses Mikoshi's processing power to rearrange your synapses a bit. You might have a headache when severing the connection, but the original V does not have to die in this scenario.

That single line, about having Soulkiller used on you, ruined the game for me. All game long they tell us what a terrible piece of software that is and how it was a "Fate worse than death" for Johnny to have it used on him and yet V must agree to that shit, because the only alternatives are suicide or siding with Arasaka and getting half a lobotomy.

It also tells us a lot about what kind of person Alt was, when she actually programmed such a horrible tool. Alt is not a good person and it shows in the behaviour of AI Alt.

Getting 6 months to live as the original V, and not as Engram V, or as disabled Arasaka V, would still not be a good ending. But even that tiny glimpse of hope, to go into the expansions as the same person that you started the game as, was too much to ask of their writing team.
 
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Soul can mean a lot of different things but what it definitely entails is continuity of consciousness and that is the big problem, because that is is what's inevitably gone. Original V, who we have been playing for the whole game, dies in the moment that Soulkiller hits him and Ctrl-V is "born". At best Ctrl-V is a new proper V, at worst it's just a soulless husk emulating what V would have felt but it's never V.
And in my opinion that would be serviceable ending, not great but good enough, but they included that 6 months plothole.
 
It would not surprise me with all the stuff you can still find in the game that 50% or more content was cut to meet the deadline. You literally got a moral system in the game cause you can choose to kill ppl in stealth or just put them to sleep. There is no reason for those options to be in the game unless you have a moral system in mind.

The management did the devs dirty.
 
Shepard was dying at the ME2 preamble and was revived again 2 years later. According to Cerberus records, his brain was already dead.
but as a result he was shepard again, you were reliving his feelings.
 
It would not surprise me with all the stuff you can still find in the game that 50% or more content was cut to meet the deadline. You literally got a moral system in the game cause you can choose to kill ppl in stealth or just put them to sleep. There is no reason for those options to be in the game unless you have a moral system in mind.

The management did the devs dirty.
Not only moral system, i think those three tarot cards in the character screen were meant to affect the ending (there were probably better endings planned, depending at which percent each card is at the end), but right now they do nothing.
 
It would not surprise me with all the stuff you can still find in the game that 50% or more content was cut to meet the deadline. You literally got a moral system in the game cause you can choose to kill ppl in stealth or just put them to sleep. There is no reason for those options to be in the game unless you have a moral system in mind.

The management did the devs dirty.
Well, you get more money in some gigs when you take people alife... so there is that reason.

...agreed, though, I too think the original game and main story were MUCH more complex and deeper then what we ultimately got. Ah... the masterpiece that never was. Great, now I have to life with that revelation. *sigh*

Only half joking... sadly. ;)
 
Well, you get more money in some gigs when you take people alife... so there is that reason.

...agreed, though, I too think the original game and main story were MUCH more complex and deeper then what we ultimately got. Ah... the masterpiece that never was. Great, now I have to life with that revelation. *sigh*

Only half joking... sadly. ;)
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Another thing. Does anyone else feel really sorry for Evelyn Parker? I think her character was badly used and killed off in a horrible fashion.

The girl just wanted the money for a better life, instead she has her brain fried by the Voodoo Fucks and then falls victim to a horrible rape/torture/snuff story (as if the game did not already have way too much of that) which ends with her suicide.

And as much as I love Judy, but not immediately taking Evelyn to a clinic where she can be treated, medicated and get professional help was a huge mistake. My V would have made sure to provide the money for that.

Going on a revenge rampage after her death felt empty, cause once again V could not save someone, despite being a doomed man on a mission...
 
Another thing. Does anyone else feel really sorry for Evelyn Parker? I think her character was badly used and killed off in a horrible fashion.

The girl just wanted the money for a better life, instead she has her brain fried by the Voodoo Fucks and then falls victim to a horrible rape/torture/snuff story (as if the game did not already have way too much of that) which ends with her suicide.

And as much as I love Judy, but not immediately taking Evelyn to a clinic where she can be treated, medicated and get professional help was a huge mistake. My V would have made sure to provide the money for that.

Going on a revenge rampage after her death felt empty, cause once again V could not save someone, despite being a doomed man on a mission...
"You cant save the world, but you cant save yourself also you cant save anyone"
 
Another thing. Does anyone else feel really sorry for Evelyn Parker? I think her character was badly used and killed off in a horrible fashion.

The girl just wanted the money for a better life, instead she has her brain fried by the Voodoo Fucks and then falls victim to a horrible rape/torture/snuff story (as if the game did not already have way too much of that) which ends with her suicide.

And as much as I love Judy, but not immediately taking Evelyn to a clinic where she can be treated, medicated and get professional help was a huge mistake. My V would have made sure to provide the money for that.

Going on a revenge rampage after her death felt empty, cause once again V could not save someone, despite being a doomed man on a mission...

I think that was the point of it all. To leave you sad and depressed for her. But who would have imagined you later feel the same thing for V.......i just can't wrap my head around the fact that someone looked at this and said: "This is good lets ship it RIGHT NOW"
 
I am perfectly fine with "Soulkiller" going ham on V. It is an intriguing concept.
Does a soul exist? Aren't we just data stored in a biological computer, able to get uploaded, downloaded saved?
It could be a great concept for a DLC that expands on the decision.
Maybe getting a cloned body for V.
"Does this unit have a soul?"

We got a glimpse of it when we send Jackie to Vik and he appeared in Mikoshi. He was not the same, but was that all? Maybe a trick by Alt, trying to make you so sad, that you let her eat you out of despair. She controlled Mikoshi at that point, she could show you anything she wants.

Still doesn't excuse the stupid 6 months.
Gimme my good life with the Avocados!!
 
Another thing. Does anyone else feel really sorry for Evelyn Parker? I think her character was badly used and killed off in a horrible fashion.

The girl just wanted the money for a better life, instead she has her brain fried by the Voodoo Fucks and then falls victim to a horrible rape/torture/snuff story (as if the game did not already have way too much of that) which ends with her suicide.

And as much as I love Judy, but not immediately taking Evelyn to a clinic where she can be treated, medicated and get professional help was a huge mistake. My V would have made sure to provide the money for that.

Going on a revenge rampage after her death felt empty, cause once again V could not save someone, despite being a doomed man on a mission...

That's a good point. I've never noticed how bland Eve's suicide is shown as... When Judy calls you, she sounds just worried, and not like someone who has been crying her make up off for the last 10 minutes...
 
There are a a ton of red flags around AI Alt, even more than there were around Dex, with everyone warning you that he might not be what he seemed, yet you were forced to go along with everything.

And with Alt it's even worse. Johnny does not want to see her for what she really has become, cause he was madly in love with the original Alt.

That this Alt programmed Soulkiller, one of the most terrible weapons ever, is never reflected on in the game. Also that AI Alt is going to absorb all the engrams in Mikoshi cannot be prevented and when you call AI Alt out for that bullshit, she just brushes it off, while Johnny also gives no fucks about their fate.

I think it's pretty clear that AI Alt and Johnny are in cahoots with each other. AI Alt gets access to Mikoshi and can absorb every engram to become even more powerful. Engram Johnny gets your body and can be physical again. And V gets the short end of the stick. The only reason Engram Johnny does not fight you harder, if you decide to send him into cyberspace, is that he knows that Alt won't gobble him up, with her help he might find another body later, so there's no reason for him to push back harder.

The game itself poses as unreliable narrator, beause all the ultimate truths that it presents are made under false premises. We get tricked every step of the way and while we think we can save our life, we only progress further on the road to our own demise.
 
As a corp backstory i had a great idea together with a romance story line (maybe).

Why can't you date/marry the arasaka princess? You literally saved the company, her family and her life. But if that is to much to ask. How about this one.

You start your game by getting fired from Arasaka. Why not end with you taking over Arasaka? At the ending you are the new head of the Arasaka Corp. Either with the princess or the prince of arasaka at your side or both dead at your feet. A hostile takeover so to speak.

The Prince is weak without his sister and the princess is weak without you. Why had no one the idea for you to become such a big shot that you simply take over the company you once worked for?
 
I am perfectly fine with "Soulkiller" going ham on V. It is an intriguing concept.
Does a soul exist? Aren't we just data stored in a biological computer, able to get uploaded, downloaded saved?
It could be a great concept for a DLC that expands on the decision.
Maybe getting a cloned body for V.
"Does this unit have a soul?"

We got a glimpse of it when we send Jackie to Vik and he appeared in Mikoshi. He was not the same, but was that all? Maybe a trick by Alt, trying to make you so sad, that you let her eat you out of despair. She controlled Mikoshi at that point, she could show you anything she wants.

Still doesn't excuse the stupid 6 months.
Gimme my good life with the Avocados!!

As I said earlier, this has nothing to do with the concept of a soul, but simply with the continuity of your own existence. Original V dies as soon as he jacks into Mikoshi, this is not a trip into Cyberspace as in the previous missions.

The other Cyberspace trips were conscious processes, where V was awake and experienced every step. Like in the Voodoo Boys mission, you enter the ice tank and can see how reality turns from normal perception into data. But when you jack into Mikoshi there is no such transition but a fade to black, and then Engram V wakes up in the elevator.
 
This sentiment has been discussed and prooved wrong at least 3 times before in this thread.
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If you are agreeing with this then you are contradicting your previous statements because we all agree with that quote too here.

My point has been and always will be that misserable endings are fine.

and, going back to one of your previous posts, can you name an rpg with a singular ending? because I can't think of one and it sounds like an oxymoron.

Actually it's very easy, barely an inconvenience to name one.

Final Fantasy 1 - all of them
Xenoblade all of them
Dragon Quest all of them
etc etc
 
As a corp backstory i had a great idea together with a romance story line (maybe).

Why can't you date/marry the arasaka princess? You literally saved the company, her family and her life. But if that is to much to ask. How about this one.

You start your game by getting fired from Arasaka. Why not end with you taking over Arasaka? At the ending you are the new head of the Arasaka Corp. Either with the princess or the prince of arasaka at your side or both dead at your feet. A hostile takeover so to speak.

The Prince is weak without his sister and the princess is weak without you. Why had no one the idea for you to become such a big shot that you simply take over the company you once worked for?

You would never be accepted by Arasaka. The corp belongs to the Arasaka clan and to people like Hanako Arasaka you are just a speck of dirt on their shoe. The only reason she even talks to you, is to use you as her weapon and she makes a false promise about saving your life, despite not even knowing if this is possible (same as AI Alt) - and as it turned out it was a futile attempt. Although the data gotten during the experiments and surgery was probably valueable to Arasaka.
 
I guess they could do a post ending DLC where you take those 6 months to find away out of that 6 month deadline. Hell they could one where you "friends" get you out of the black wall or mikoshi. Setting up another race to save yourself again.

They just have to ignore the suicide ending.. they could even get around Jonny stealing your body by having him switch bodys again to put you back.

I mean it's a long shot but they could do it. If it's a pre ending DLC or play as Jonny... hell if it's not continuing Vs story post ending I dont think I will buy any of the DLC.
 
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