Exactly this, we can argue the semantics of if it's the real V or not, but it's just eugh. Like you can't even tell anyway in gameplay. They act completely the same. All that happened is that their meatbag of a brain and soul went from one form of data to another. Now it's storable and on a chip. Something that allows the continuous reincarnation of that individual. It's just a less messy brain transplant.
nah i understand what u mean, but i disagree. Having 5 different ending were 4 are perceived as sad or bad and one is "Happy /good" with no other implications will render all other endings pointless for the majority of the players . In the context of cyberpunk , if you possible could achieve ; Vs survival , while all the people you like survive aswell all the bad one die there is no point of role playing a "bad ending " because the happy ending is perfect. However if you could achieves v surviving , but therefore arasaka or alt get super powerfull with very bad consequences for the world and its characters that would be another thing. And this would be a legit criticism point , the endings just arent that impactfull. Die now, die in 6 month, become a construct , but none of those actually have consequences on the world. Take tw 3, none of the endings are perfect ; I dont want radovid to be king hes cruel, but i dont wanna kill roche he is my friend, ciri ruling would probably the best for the world but i know thats not what she wants ..etc pp
impactfull consequences, bitersweet endings , thats what is missinng , not that there s no "happy ending"
and at this point it all stands and falls with future dlcs .
Which is also legitimate criticism that this shouldnt be the case.
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lmao Johnny says essentially this exact same thing and Alt basically replies "You know it's not that simple, everything changes."
I feel like I'm starting to accept the endings for what they are, and see the point cdpr is trying to make. Which is based on the assumption that the endings are final, and that V won't be featured in future dlc. We can look at V as a young merc, unexperienced, traveling to NC with big dreams, and later finds out that it was a mistake, the city is unforgiving. It seems like a conclusion many of us made. However, it doesn't change the fact that if it was indeed cdpr's idea, then it is one that was badly executed, and resulted in the feeling of "emptiness/dissatisfaction" many of us felt after completion. I have tried to come up with small/major adjustments to each ending that I think would alleviate this feeling of disappointment, without changing the outcome:
- Arasaka: It was a mistake siding with corpo
- Extracting the chip was successful (no 6 months limit).
- It was done with the purpose of extracting the Johnny Silverhand chip. Now under Arasaka possession.
- You have the option to either become an engram (final) or an Arasaka prisoner/tester (final).
- Panam: Escape NC
- Extracting the chip was successful (no 6 months limit).
- You have the option to either give body to Johnny (final) or return to body.
- Arasaka is now chasing you (they are able to track you down anywhere in NC).
- You have the option to either fight Arasaka (final/death), surrender (final), or escape NC with Panam (final).
- NC Legend: Sacrifice
- Extracting the chip was successful (no 6 months limit).
- You have the option to either give body to Johnny (final) or return to body.
- Arasaka is now chasing you (they are able to track you down anywhere in NC).
- You have the option to either fight Arasaka (final/death), surrender (final), or destroy Arasaka's tracking device which is located in space.
- Going on a space mission, you are able to successfully destroy the tracking device. However, Arasaka's ship now under fire from Arasaka drones, and is flying towards earth.
- You have the option to either fight Arasaka in space (final/death) or redirect the Arasaka ship away to save earth (final/death).
- New option: Merge with Johnny
- Find ripperdoc to perform a temporary operation
- Slows down the merging process giving you 6 months to live (once merge is complete it results in death)
- Continue playing the game without any changes
Except that transhumanism is a central foible of the entire main plot. Saburo Arasaka's desire to live on forever in some format is literally one of the two original sins (along with V's greed) that leads to V being in the situation she is. There are also a lot of side quests that deal with the consequences of modifying ourselves. It's all over the place in the world.
The two main themes of the entire game so far as I understand it are (1) a very cynical take on transhumanism where modifying ourselves does not take away our problems - but instead magnifies them, as well as (2) a cautionary tale about seeking material gains at the expense of everything else - both for V personally as well as for a society where that has led to corporatism in the extreme and great inequities that make people feel that being exploited is inevitable and to just accept it and try to make it for yourself at all costs.
Rejecting those ideas by accepting mortality and turning away from materialism arguably leads to the happiest ending (the Nomad one).
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This is why I think Alt is full of crap. She's logical to a point but she's also been locked away just spewing out data codes. Alt suffers what all AI seem to suffer in such a genre. They're overconfident and believe fully in their supremacy, it's what always gets them in the end.
She says 'everything changes' but an AI can't change without stimulation. Alt can't grow unless she has outside influence. Hence why she wants to nom all those tasty 'souls' and assimilate them. It's the only way she can develop.
Well I gave you an example. Dont judge ppl from yourself. I know lots of ppl, who doesnt care if the ending they picked is not "happy".
I was asking that girl something like "Wtf? Why did you pick that one? Your mc dies! Gets blown up with the whole building, and that mf, who was using us, and lying to us all the way!" And she said - "Bc I like him. So I dont give a fck."
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EDIT: Of course these are my opinions and I am in no way trying to put these off as facts, despite any wording to the contrary.
However it doesn't seem that any one character has complete narrative authority, but perspectives. Alt first contacted Johnny back in the day after her mind, soul.. whatever, went into the net. Her humanity persisted enough to do that. Now fast forward 50 years later and she is just an A.I, no humanity left. So for her yeah, It changed everything... over time. Not having that connection to humanity, a body, does that.
I am currently rewatching "all along the watchtower" ending, the Panam one, and both Johnny and Alt still refer to V's body as "yours".
What that actually means? Idk I have my opinions but ultimately either you're playing a V2, or some continuation of V that has changed (which both the joytoy in clouds and Misty references change) either way I don't think alt has the authority to really know what V is after she/he goes back into their body.
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I agree. There should not be endings way better than the rest, exactly as you sad. All the endings should have pros and cons, gain something, sacrificing someone. W3 was good in this, i chopped the Dikstra's head with great sorrow, for i liked him, but also wanted to end the war.
I would propose roughly 3 endings:
1) Hero rides in sunset with Panam/Judy. No wealth, no glory, no playing after ending, but love and freedom
2) Corporate ending. Safety, wealth, comfort, but no freedom, and your love interests dump you
3) Legendary merc ending. Playing after ending, glory, wealth and no Panam/Judy — they rightfully hate NC and left it for good. River and Kerry are still with you
Yeah, TW 3 done this perfectly, people go all in for this "happy ending" where you could make it happy only for Geralt, Yen or Triss and Ciri.
The rest was at least bitter sweet, with many endings just a bad ones no matter what you chose (for ex. Dikstra / Radovid / Emphyr)
Here we even don't get this. Both world - Witcher and Cyberpunk are depressing af and people are well aware of this, yet some continuation would be nice, not to mention that the whole game with this endings story wise is a gargantuan failure.
I get that this story would fit with any indie game, but with triple A game - people expect to get something more that "2020 on screen".
Hell even this is a far more worse outcome, since at the end of 2020 we are getting vaccines that btw are also a major breakthrough in modern medicine, and truly a XXI century invention.
TW3 endings were on the same level. If Ciri becomes a witcher, Geralt is happy but the world might be doomed, if Ciri sacrifices, world is saved but Geralt lost her. If Ciri becomes empress, good for content, not as good for Geralt.
Agreed, but i mean more specifically-transhumanism problems. Yes, immortality via tech have been addressed, implants were merely mentioned (okay, we got 20 cyberpsychos, and that's about all), conscience redaction was mentioned in Peralez questline. Material wealth inequality is a common problem, not strictly transhumanism one. AI problem was also just mentioned. AI exists, they live in cyberspace, NetWatch uses them as boogeyman.
Indeed, all those problems and ideas were just briefly i troduced and then everything was mostly focused on V survival.
I'm not saying that the whole Soulkiller process will somehow "roboticize" you so that you act more like Alt. The copy is going to see itself as a continuation, and in many senses it is, but it won't be in the way that matters.
Alt also refers to what she's doing at one point in that ending as checking for "engram copy errors".
Only as much authority as the person who invented the technology can have, I suppose. And it's not going back to the body that's the sore spot -- it's what Soulkiller does before you "leave" it.
There are several other quests that deal with the issues. The whole Clouds side questline with Judy deals with the dolls being exploited in return for body modification. Delemain's side questline deals with the nature of artificial intelligence and the ethics of controlling merging or destroying consciousnesses (sp?). Anything dealing with Maelstrom (the Buddhist Monk quest, the main quest in the prologue) are cautionary tales about taking modification too far. Etc etc etc. The ideas are all definitely there.
EDIT: However, I do agree that more of quests like these would be a very good thing.
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Nah, almost good. Need small touch. Arasaka chase you and you keep killing them till the stop. There u go fixed for ya. That's what real legend path is.
Another thing to add about Alt, she fully embraces the persona that she has transcended beyond human desire and limitation yet from her dialogue is visibly perturbed when you speak to her without Johnny, at her core she clearly remains who she once was even if it's not something she would admit, perhaps even to herself.
Indeed they are, but we have only small amount of content adressing these problems. Easily missable to, because they are mostly sidejobs.
I guess this can kind of link on why Soulkiller is called Soulkiller. Soon as your soul is literally tangible anyone can own you, and there's no escaping from that if someone has your chip. You're property.