[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Simuxas]

I agree. There should not be endings way better than the rest, exactly as you sad. All the endings should have pros and cons, gain something, sacrificing someone. W3 was good in this, i chopped the Dikstra's head with great sorrow, for i liked him, but also wanted to end the war.
I would propose roughly 3 endings:
1) Hero rides in sunset with Panam/Judy. No wealth, no glory, no playing after ending, but love and freedom
2) Corporate ending. Safety, wealth, comfort, but no freedom, and your love interests dump you
3) Legendary merc ending. Playing after ending, glory, wealth and no Panam/Judy — they rightfully hate NC and left it for good. River and Kerry are still with you

Also i do believe aswell that endings should have been more like TW3. Like V gains something small but looses something small. In other V wpuld gain a lot more but in contrast would loose more, just as you said.

1. Arasaka ending - sided with the devil, V lives, but most of V's friends judges V, love interrsts leave him/her.

2. Assault on Arsaka tower - V lives but in process some of V's friends die. Like Vik, Rogue and Johnny sacrifices if you make good relation with you.

3. Nomad one - attack the tower, none of important people in V's life dies, but V has limited time to live but rides off into the sunset with lovers.

All these endings could also incorporate Johnnys affiliation and other missed mechanics.

 

[Kashola_]

Alt also refers to what she's doing at one point in that ending as checking for "engram copy errors".

Only as much authority as the person who invented the technology can have, I suppose. And it's not going back to the body that's the sore spot -- it's what Soulkiller does before you "leave" it.

Yeah, the whole copying thing causes real worry, the biggest reason why I even came to this forum lol. But I don't know, it goes into what a soul is, do we even have souls and my take is until God descends upon the CP world and says we have one, V's engram going back into the body it has always known doesn't differentiate enough for me to stress about "is this V real or not".

As for her being the creator of Soulkiller, yeah she is but she still has no experience of what that means when a digitized psyche of a person is reintroduced to the same brain they came from; it is unprecedented. Barring the previously mentioned divine soul, I just don't see much changing, not even the 'Ego'.

Again, my .2 Eddies <3

 

[jahkin]

Also i do believe aswell that endings should have been more like TW3. Like V gains something small but looses something small. In other V wpuld gain a lot more but in contrast would loose more, just as you said.

1. Arasaka ending - sided with the devil, V lives, but most of V's friends judges V, love interrsts leave him/her.

2. Assault on Arsaka tower - V lives but in process some of V's friends die. Like Vik, Rogue and Johnny sacrifices if you make good relation with you.

3. Nomad one - attack the tower, none of important people in V's life dies, but V has limited time to live but rides off into the sunset with lovers.

All these endings could also incorporate Johnnys affiliation and other missed mechanics.

Ah, I take the second one then ...

I am one of those who didn't even blink to destroy the Geth, or sacrifice that Warden in DAI instead of my Hawke...or sent Loghain to die with the Archdemon...hehehe...now of course if love-interests are among those ... then it becomes annoying again...

 

[Simuxas]

Ah, I take the second one then ...

I am one of those who didn't even blink to destroy the Geth, or sacrifice that Warden in DAI instead of my Hawke...or sent Loghain to die with the Archdemon...hehehe...now of course if love-interests are among those ... then it becomes annoying again...

I'm just throwing these ideas out, can alway configure them. But i would say these would be more fitting and choices would differ.

 

[Buckadoz]

Yeah, the whole copying thing causes real worry, the biggest reason why I even came to this forum lol. But I don't know, it goes into what a soul is, do we even have souls and my take is until God descends upon the CP world and says we have one, V's engram going back into the body it has always known doesn't differentiate enough for me to stress about "is this V real or not".

As for her being the creator of Soulkiller, yeah she is but she still has no experience of what that means when a digitized psyche of a person is reintroduced to the same brain they came from; it is unprecedented. Barring the previously mentioned divine soul, I just don't see much changing, not even the 'Ego'.

Again, my .2 Eddies <3

Eh, if you want to go the route that you think they were referring to some kind of literal supernatural soul, then I guess this is where that conversation ends.

Otherwise, I've yet to see someone propose a way around Soulkiller's implications that don't require you to somehow think that Alt is lying or wrong, based on nothing but unfounded speculation. What do you think Alt was referring to when she says things like "the rest will cease to exist" or "everything changes", or are all of these lines that get swept under the "I simply don't believe Alt" rug?

 

[arcsirc]

I sort of think these implications are null in the situation where you are rewritten into your own body immediately.
the ripperdoc near the nightmarket where you get your gift from tbug has some in game lore relating to the bodies place in the integrity of the individual but I don't remember it.

 

[StarkHelsing]

Eh, if you want to go the route that you think they were referring to some kind of literal supernatural soul, then I guess this is where that conversation ends.

Otherwise, I've yet to see someone propose a way around Soulkiller's implications that don't require you to somehow think that Alt is lying or wrong, based on nothing but unfounded speculation. What do you think Alt was referring to when she says things like "the rest will cease to exist" or "everything changes", or are all of these lines that get swept under the "I simply don't believe Alt" rug?

Alt literally talks like any AI does in such a setting. Alt is an AI where time does not matter to her. Everyone changes with time, people will gradually cease to exist. She's talking facts here because of course people change - but we know that already. As a person grows in person they change. Alt at this moment is an AI that will if given a chance 'devour' everyone, and probably in her strange mindset by doing this they will be all equal and there will be no bloodshed because your individuality is removed.

Example of AIs being AIs in regards to humanity/souls/fleshbag
The AIs in Matrix

 

[SaulTuk]

Also i do believe aswell that endings should have been more like TW3. Like V gains something small but looses something small. In other V wpuld gain a lot more but in contrast would loose more, just as you said.

1. Arasaka ending - sided with the devil, V lives, but most of V's friends judges V, love interrsts leave him/her.

2. Assault on Arsaka tower - V lives but in process some of V's friends die. Like Vik, Rogue and Johnny sacrifices if you make good relation with you.

3. Nomad one - attack the tower, none of important people in V's life dies, but V has limited time to live but rides off into the sunset with lovers.

All these endings could also incorporate Johnnys affiliation and other missed mechanics.

Something like that, just remove limited time in nomad enging). Better to link V's health only to Johny-meter, allowing player to get normal life expectancy in any ending. I mean, nomad endings provides you love of Judy/Panam and freedom, but that's all, no more pros, not even playing after ending. So i see no reason to plague this ending with 6 month crap.

For example, in Original Sin 2 i sacrificed my Divinity and even my Source powers just to separare Void for good and i'm content with it. Of course, my hero remains nobody with no glory and fame, but this is the price i was ready to pay. And nomad ending means the same - no glory, no fame, no recognition, no wealth, no playing as rich and famous merc after credits.

As for possible death of friends and beloved in Mikoshi assault, i would play it in the interesting way - friends will be friendly NPC, powerful but with godmode off and can be killed if player will be sloppy or weak to protect them. Or player can with hired guns/Militech soldiers, but they are weak and possibly have their own agenda. I for myself am tired of pre-directed deaths of friends in cutscenes, let random decide. Of course, make final run in ironman mode, no save-scumming.

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2020

Ah, I take the second one then ...

I am one of those who didn't even blink to destroy the Geth, or sacrifice that Warden in DAI instead of my Hawke...or sent Loghain to die with the Archdemon...hehehe...now of course if love-interests are among those ... then it becomes annoying again...

You destroyed the geth?!)

 

[Simuxas]

Something like that, just remove limited time in nomad enging). Better to link V's health only to Johny-meter, allowing player to get normal life expectancy in any ending. I mean, nomad endings provides you love of Judy/Panam and freedom, but that's all, no more pros, not even playing after ending. So i see no reason to plague this ending with 6 month crap.

For example, in Original Sin 2 i sacrificed my Divinity and even my Source powers just to separare Void for good and i'm content with it. Of course, my hero remains nobody with no glory and fame, but this is the price i was ready to pay. And nomad ending means the same - no glory, no fame, no recognition, no wealth, no playing as rich and famous merc after credits.

As for possible death of friends and beloved in Mikoshi assault, i would play it in the interesting way - friends will be friendly NPC, powerful but with godmode off and can be killed if player will be sloppy or weak to protect them. Or player can with hired guns/Militech soldiers, but they are weak and possibly have their own agenda. I for myself am tired of pre-directed deaths of friends in cutscenes, let random decide. Of course, make final run in ironman mode, no save-scumming.

Well yeah preset character deaths are kinda shitty, but then there would be no real impact. I'd say if you befriend Johnny at the endhe would sacrifice himself in some way to save V. Along side Rogue dying would be pretty much like V lost the best companion and all of the old legends die. V could become the new so called legend if wanted.

Since a lot of people like Johnny, would be a shock factor and be abittrrsweet ending.

 

[Buckadoz]

I sort of think these implications are null in the situation where you are rewritten into your own body immediately.

rewritten onto a shell blanked by Soulkiller. I thought you liked the V2 lives ending anyway?

 

[kittinaa]

I guess this can kind of link on why Soulkiller is called Soulkiller. Soon as your soul is literally tangible anyone can own you, and there's no escaping from that if someone has your chip. You're property.

No.

Is more related with cyber psychosis than soul killer.

 

[Kashola_]

Eh, if you want to go the route that you think they were referring to some kind of literal supernatural soul, then I guess this is where that conversation ends.

Otherwise, I've yet to see someone propose a way around Soulkiller's implications that don't require you to somehow think that Alt is lying or wrong, based on nothing but unfounded speculation. What do you think Alt was referring to when she says things like "the rest will cease to exist" or "everything changes", or are all of these lines that get swept under the "I simply don't believe Alt" rug?

It is an issue of showing the impact of what she claims, as an A.I that has never experienced what V has. There is no indication in the Nomad ending that V is empty like they are in the Arasaka ending. V is going to AZ w/ hopefully finding a cure. While making Judy a meal while she(Judy) leaves a message on the Holo for V. (credits scene) Seems pretty normal and even happy, at least happy as they can be considering.

As for alt lying or being wrong.. Yeah i don't trust her, but not without any reason. She wants to gobble up A.I from behind the Blackwall. Why not just free them? Let them be free like she is. Why does Johnny have to be consumed by her as well? I'm assuming doing so will make her more powerful. A sense of dread surrounds her for me, warning signs go off in my mind around her.

EDIT: Also to add to my thoughts on the whole soul thing. Not only do we not see any real impact of what she is saying, but she also doesn't really go into what a soul even is. Like, be specific, what are you talking about? A soul? Again in the "good" ending in Nomad.. I just don't see the loss or the changes she is referring to.

The only thing I can think of is the loss of humanity, the "soul" she is referring to in which your mind isn't connected to a body anymore and in that she does know what she is talking about but at that point, we're going into circles of what Soulkiller supposedly does from the onset to earn its name.

 

[Barsenthor]

I think that it has something to do with the fact that engrams can be corrupted/reprogramed. This is what Johnny says about Mikoshi - Arasaka can reprogram people there to suits their own needs.

 

[SaulTuk]

Well yeah preset character deaths are kinda shitty, but then there would be no real impact. I'd say if you befriend Johnny at the endhe would sacrifice himself in some way to save V. Along side Rogue dying would be pretty much like V lost the best companion and all of the old legends die. V could become the new so called legend if wanted.

Since a lot of people like Johnny, would be a shock factor and be abittrrsweet ending.

Until Mikoshi Johny is in V's head, what makes his heroic sacrfice...problematic (said as Mordin Solus). But Rogue - yes, good sacrificial lion. Still, make them mortal NPC in your ironman final run, let each player get slightly different personal graveyard in the end. Also, make final run so hard that going solo will be challenge for anyone except CS champions. Either befriend Militech, and some of your friends will judge you, either hire mercs (this can be linked to your Street Cred and some quest), or take your friends and protect them to the best of your abilities.

 

[StarkHelsing]

No.

Is more related with cyber psychosis than soul killer.

Or both? Considering that Soul Killer is literally the biggest 'transhuman' modification you can get. Your whole 'existence' is put onto a piece of tech that can be slotted into someone else.

The reason why I relate it is because of the Monks, the reason why they don't allow modifications is because they're classed as 'items' that they own, and they're not supposed to own anything. They're the opposite of greed.

The worst thing that can happen to a person is not being free, being owned. Having your soul be an item that can be owned by someone else, is horrific. It's a parallel to any person who knows a lick about slavery, but let's not open that can of worms.

 

[Buckadoz]

It is an issue of showing the impact of what she claims, as an A.I that has never experienced what V has. There is no indication in the Nomad ending that V is empty like they are in the Arasaka ending. V is going to AZ w/ hopefully finding a cure. While making Judy a meal while she(Judy) leaves a message on the Holo for V. (credits scene) Seems pretty normal and even happy, at least happy as they can be considering.

Yeah, if it's a copy, it's going to be externally indistinguishable. What I'm saying is that Soulkiller means the original is gone, there wouldn't be any indication of anything being wrong to anyone else regarding V2.

 

[Simuxas]

They had great design in TW3, no idea why they tried to reinvent the wheel again.
For endings i mean.

 

[arcsirc]

rewritten onto a shell blanked by Soulkiller. I thought you liked the V2 lives ending anyway?

They aren't mutually exclusive, one directly feeds how I view the other. given that your body survives the process there's a limit to how much damage soulkiller can actually do to it's systems given that autonomic processes continue. It clearly doesn't fry you it just wipes what was copied.
The copy loses something which it possibly regains when it's placed back in it's original vessel which is why I stressed being replaced in your body in my older post.

Everyone in the game is unreliable, no one has complete knowledge of every factor in your highly unusual die/revive/die/disentangle/revive/reintegrate journey.

 

[Kashola_]

Yeah, if it's a copy, it's going to be externally indistinguishable. What I'm saying is that Soulkiller means the original is gone, there wouldn't be any indication of anything being wrong to anyone else regarding V2.

Simply put the game asks "what makes you, you" and therein lies the disagreement/fun discussion. At one point in the game the quote "God only knows" gets said and it's probably the best answer we can get. I for one like my own reasoning and am ok with the Nomad ending... for now unless DLC comes out and shits in my bed.

 

[Simuxas]

Simply put the game asks "what makes you, you" and therein lies the disagreement/fun discussion. At one point in the game the quote "God only knows" gets said and it's probably the best answer we can get. I for one like my own reasoning and am ok with the Nomad ending... for now unless DLC comes out and shits in my bed.

Could have been good endings where people could question "what makes you, you" but then they kinda shit on it with 6 months to live.