[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[StarkHelsing]

Soulkiller is literally killing the brain of someone like deleting a harddrive while also making a copy or digital emulation of said brain in the process. After that you can copy or emulate any engram on said brain. That is how the lore tells you this thing works. So the moment Alt uses Soulkiller V is dead.

What then enters V is either a copy of V. A digital Emulation of V or the copy or digital emulation of Johnny. Regardless the outcome original V is already dead.
But no worries. The copy or digital emulation of V can die 6 months after it again. So yay.......

I mean it can be argued that the original V died when they were shot. What woke up certainly wasn't V, in the time they were 'dead' the chip repaired their brain and Johnny/V's memories merged. That's probably more messed up to me. Not to say the V that clawed out of their grave is a copy, but... yeah, this is way too complicated.

 

[lokozar]

It is relevant because it kills V and replaces V with a copy. The games brushes over it so I can't really blame you.
Lemme see if I can't find a post from earlier that goes into more detail on it.

Have to butt in here and disagree again. Who is V? Wo are you? What defines you? Your body? Your thoughts?

Soulkiller copies you, makes you 0 and 1. Thing is, ... you already were 0 and 1 to begin with. Power/Electricity in your brain is flowing, or isn't flowing.

So, what changed?

 

[stndn]

Even if it make sense, issue is that this is just a theory based on very few elements (Illiad excerpt, Cassidy's words, Tarot (if you believe these have any foresight value - is there anything else ?)
Long story short, it's not a clear statement, just theories we make in a forum, that will probably be completely ignored by the devs.

What could V find outside of NC, and finding someone able to do what no one else could do (including Soulkiller creator / powerful IA) ? It doesn't make much sense, and isn't foreshadowed in any way.

It leaves us looking for clues to feel a bit better, to end up biased with pointless hopes.

I do genuinely believe the Tarots though since they've been bang on accurate about the other endings and even Jackie. I agree it's not a clear statement but these things were intentionally placed by the developers for a reason. Whether that's to spark discussion or muddy the waters remains to be seen but I believe it's the former.

 

[lokozar]

So here is a question, how would people improve the endings if they could. What are the things you would do differently?

You can find my take here: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...t-the-endings.11041109/page-309#post-12535772

 

[NikolayMat]

Soulkiller is literally killing the brain of someone like deleting a harddrive while also making a copy or digital emulation of said brain in the process. After that you can copy or emulate any engram on said brain. That is how the lore tells you this thing works. So the moment Alt uses Soulkiller V is dead.

Hey, but in that case, how Arasaka was able to copy Saburo (in normal state, I mean)? Because we know, if you copy mind from the dead one, you'll get something similar to Jackie, very restricted and, probably, having no "soul".

 

[DROZD01]

Hey, btw, remember that changing of the genre of the game on Twitter? if no one noticed - it got changed on Steam and GOG aswell.


"Staaaaap complaining! It's not your RPG-game anymore!"

 

[BlackEaglex74]

I hope that they decide to bring DLC for the main story maybe a shocking twist the endings to me were all the same I would have loved it if there were a way to save v or leave the chip in your Jackie head and he saved you from dex then you fight to keep Jackie alive this could have been much better fighting for a friends survival

 

[stndn]

Hey, btw, remember that changing of the genre of the game on Twitter? if no one noticed - it got changed on Steam and GOG aswell.


"Staaaaap complaining! It's not your RPG-game anymore!"

It's still a roleplaying game despite the vitriolic circle-jerk surrounding this game. Even on Steam it's in the RPG category.

 

[Cloud7]

I mean it can be argued that the original V died when they were shot. What woke up certainly wasn't V, in the time they were 'dead' the chip repaired their brain and Johnny/V's memories merged. That's probably more messed up to me. Not to say the V that clawed out of their grave is a copy, but... yeah, this is way too complicated.

That is called "Plot Hole" because it makes no sense at all. If V died by the bullet to the head and the biochip repaired the brain in order to Copy Johnny from the chip into the brain why is V still there?
There are only 2 explanations

1. V didn't die and the chip started repairing the brain and also started to upload or copy the engram of johnny which leads to the events we can encounter in the story.
2. V did die and the chip has soulkiller on it and copied V and Johnny into the brain which leads to the conflict of them 2 existing in the same brain at the same time.

So depending on your point of view. V dies 3 times or 2 times in this story. That is beyond messed up if you think about it.

Post automatically merged: Dec 25, 2020

Hey, but in that case, how Arasaka was able to copy Saburo (in normal state, I mean)? Because we know, if you copy mind from the dead one, you'll get something similar to Jackie, very restricted and, probably, having no "soul".

He made a copy of himself when he was still alive as an insurance. As far as i remember.

 

[Anrix1]

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I want to stress this again, as I have done in the past. This is the exact moment when the game's wheels fall off. Because all the "better" endings now lead into Mikoshi (I guess we can rule out Suicide, Arasaka or Cyberspace as good outcomes).

At this point, we learn that AI Alt will kill us when we enter Mikoshi. For those of us, who are distressed by the idea of being copied/brain wiped/copied again, the moment of jacking into Mikoshi is the end of the game, cause it's the death of our original character.

And for those of us, who are not disturbed by the copy&brain wipe idea, it is just a delay. Cause the engram V who returns from Mikoshi will die in 6 months. So the only difference is immediate death or death in 6 months.

Story and rpg wise this is where the game needs an additional decision, which retcons the point where V is forced to agree to their own death. This is THE moment that finalizes V's own demise, either in Mikoshi or within 6 months and from here onwards it's no longer an RPG but a story on rails, which always ends badly for our main character (and no, Johnny is not my main character and will never be. Fking Rocker-Bin-Laden).

Did folks skip dialogue with Alt?

Soulkiller kills The victim. The only thing that returns to V's body is a construct that thinks it's V.

This has to be the main sore point for me: V is told that Soulkiller is not the answer to V's problem. When you talk to Alt in cyberspace, she tells you she can save a copy of V, but that Soulkiller does what it says on the tin.

I repeat: Soulkiller is EXPLICITLY not an answer to V's problem, but the plot chugs along as if it is, even after telling you it isn't. I think that's probably my main sore point with these endings. The entire motivation of the plot is to save your own life, and once you find something that you are told in no uncertain terms will kill you dead, the game treats it like it's what V's been looking for.

I guess I shouldn't say no uncertain terms, since most people who played apparently didn't know.

I think these two posts sum up what I think of Soulkiller.
V at one point flat out says that the original him will die with Soulkiller. It sucks cause there is more elaborating on it is mentioned in passing and then not touched on again. And of course you can't refuse for some reason.

Regardless even Copy V only gets six months to live which is honestly overkill imo. Not only does V die but the copy will soon follow.

And don't even get me started with the Arasaka ending where you manage to avoid soulkiller but the game proceeds to flat out punish you for it.

 

[arcsirc]

overkill

 

[stndn]

The game downplays Soulkiller so hard to the point where I don't even bother considering it, which is probably why I see the Aldecaldos ending in such a positive light (Misty's tarots, foreshadowing, AZ contacts etc).

Because from the players POV barely anything actually changes. V's interactions stay the same. He even reminisces about Jackie as you're driving off . That's the V I knew.

If this is what 'Soulkiller' truly is then big deal I say.

 

[Anrix1]

The game downplays Soulkiller so hard to the point where I don't even bother considering it, which is probably why I see the Aldecaldos ending in such a positive light (Misty's tarots, foreshadowing, AZ contacts etc).

Because from the players POV barely anything actually changes. V's interactions stay the same. He even reminisces about Jackie as you're driving off . That's the V I knew.

If this is what 'Soulkiller' truly is then big deal I say.

That's a completely fine perspective to have I just don't happen to agree. This is just one of those topics that we can't really prove each other wrong cause it goes into what is a soul and whatnot.

If there is a copy of a person with the same memories and experiences as them are they the same? Let's assume they are both alive and could even look each other in the eye.
Is it not still a copy?

 

[i-Czer]

Seven outcomes which all result in death, death and maybe perhaps just a little more death, is just overkill.

Exactly. And it's not even that they are in the game. I don't think anyone wants to see them gone per se. Rather have additional ones. It's not like the engine explodes once it senses more than X amount of endings. Unlike Movies, books or tv shows, this medium is not limited, yet it is treated as if it was. It wouldn't take away from people who like the dark endings either.

 

[Anrix1]

Anyways I'm off to sleep now. Happy discussions everyone!

 

[VoodooMacVee]

First things first: Hello forum! I'm new here and this is my first post.

Now, to the topic at hand.
Usually I'm not a very public person so I pondered for quite some time whether I should really write this but I think I need to get it off my chest, so here goes.

When I bought Cyberpunk 2077, I really didn't have any special expectations. I didn't follow the development, I didn't follow the hype, I didn't know what was allegedly 'promised' or not. All I knew was, it was made by CDPR and as I just finished Witcher 3 a bit earlier I thought, well, it's probably going to be good.

And boy, was it good! The presentation, the graphics (very impressive even on my elderly PC), the soundtrack, the voice acting, the gameplay, the worldbuilding and the general mood, all of that was top notch quality in my opinion, a great gaming experience. I didn't have any game breaking bugs to speak of and the only time the game crashed was when I accidentally tabbed out and got stuck somewhere in the limbus between game and windows. Sure, there were minor glitches here and there (mostly levitating objects and people or vehicles clipping through walls) but really nothing extreme. Okay, the driving experience could use some polishing, but that shan't be the topic here.

The story however... I mean, it's great, it's written quite well, it has some really shocking plot twists and I don't even mind being railroaded for some parts, but the outcome...
When I reached the point of no return I had to spoiler myself to find out what the best possible ending was, because... because after all of what happened I needed a at least somewhat happy ending. When I found out that there isn't any, it caught me a little off guard. I was devastated for the following reason (and I'm still unsure whether it's clever to write about it in public...):
Earlier this year my spouse passed away after battling terminal breast cancer for four years. And when this game came to the point where the only option I got was to choose how to let V. die and making it clear that there is no way she will survive, something in me triggered. The game put me right back into the mental state I was in when I sat down at a table with four doctors and a psychologist and they told me very carefully but also without any ambiguity that all options were exausted and that my spouse will die, perhaps in the next few days but probably that very same night. In that moment I realized what the world looks like when you reach the end of the line. And for some stupid reason it all came back to me.
(Btw, I'm not writing this to fish for sympathy, just to explain my standpoint, so please refrain from condoling me.)

I know, I know, you might say that it's quite silly for a grown man to get so invested into a fictional character as to trigger such emotions, and normally I would agree with that. Before getting there myself I would have claimed I'm mentally stable enough that a computer game couldn't reach me on that level. Turns out, I was wrong. Apparantly the game and the characters within are so well done that it can punch right through my defenses and hit where it hurts. That was a surprise.
(And is a big compliment for the people who created such a powerful piece of art.)

By the time I'm writing this I already mostly got over the situation and have my shit back together.

i will finish the game with the nomads ending, because that seems to be the least grim situation.
However, after that I won't touch the game again before I know it gets an ending that is happy enough to make the main characters ordeal worthwhile, even if it is just keeping the status quo: You survive, for all I care with nothing but your bare life and the clothes you wear, with a black eye, beaten and scarred and with nothing to show for it but a huge pack full of experience. But you survive, for good.

Until then I sadly have to treat the game like some kind of psychological hazardous waste. I will not put me through this again. I can't. At least not anytime soon.

 

[stndn]

That's a completely fine perspective to have I just don't happen to agree. This is just one of those topics that we can't really prove each other wrong cause it goes into what is a soul and whatnot.

If there is a copy of a person with the same memories and experiences as them are they the same? Let's assume they are both alive and could even look each other in the eye.
Is it not still a copy?

I agree. As far as I'm concerned it's a toss up either way.

Personally I've invested too many hours in the game to end on a sour note and there's enough in-game evidence that convinces me that the outlook of V's future is mostly positive. Particularly the cognitive dissonance between what Alt says and what actually happens.

My closing thoughts? Pick the interpretation that lets you sleep at night and roll with it. We won't know for sure until the first expansion pack rolls around in late 2021 and it's not worth stressing until then. I need to move on from the game

 

[jahkin]

First things first: Hello forum! I'm new here and this is my first post.

Now, to the topic at hand.
Usually I'm not a very public person so I pondered for quite some time whether I should really write this but I think I need to get it off my chest, so here goes.

When I bought Cyberpunk 2077, I really didn't have any special expectations. I didn't follow the development, I didn't follow the hype, I didn't know what was allegedly 'promised' or not. All I knew was, it was made by CDPR and as I just finished Witcher 3 a bit earlier I thought, well, it's probably going to be good.

And boy, was it good! The presentation, the graphics (very impressive even on my elderly PC), the soundtrack, the voice acting, the gameplay, the worldbuilding and the general mood, all of that was top notch quality in my opinion, a great gaming experience. I didn't have any game breaking bugs to speak of and the only time the game crashed was when I accidentally tabbed out and got stuck somewhere in the limbus between game and windows. Sure, there were minor glitches here and there (mostly levitating objects and people or vehicles clipping through walls) but really nothing extreme. Okay, the driving experience could use some polishing, but that shan't be the topic here.

The story however... I mean, it's great, it's written quite well, it has some really shocking plot twists and I don't even mind being railroaded for some parts, but the outcome...
When I reached the point of no return I had to spoiler myself to find out what the best possible ending was, because... because after all of what happened I needed a at least somewhat happy ending. When I found out that there isn't any, it caught me a little off guard. I was devastated for the following reason (and I'm still unsure whether it's clever to write about it in public...):
Earlier this year my spouse passed away after battling terminal breast cancer for four years. And when this game came to the point where the only option I got was to choose how to let V. die and making it clear that there is no way she will survive, something in me triggered. The game put me right back into the mental state I was in when I sat down at a table with four doctors and a psychologist and they told me very carefully but also without any ambiguity that all options were exausted and that my spouse will die, perhaps in the next few days but probably that very same night. In that moment I realized what the world looks like when you reach the end of the line. And for some stupid reason it all came back to me.
(Btw, I'm not writing this to fish for sympathy, just to explain my standpoint, so please refrain from condoling me.)

I know, I know, you might say that it's quite silly for a grown man to get so invested into a fictional character as to trigger such emotions, and normally I would agree with that. Before getting there myself I would have claimed I'm mentally stable enough that a computer game couldn't reach me on that level. Turns out, I was wrong. Apparantly the game and the characters within are so well done that it can punch right through my defenses and hit where it hurts. That was a surprise.
(And is a big compliment for the people who created such a powerful piece of art.)

By the time I'm writing this I already mostly got over the situation and have my shit back together.

i will finish the game with the nomads ending, because that seems to be the least grim situation.
However, after that I won't touch the game again before I know it gets an ending that is happy enough to make the main characters ordeal worthwhile, even if it is just keeping the status quo: You survive, for all I care with nothing but your bare life and the clothes you wear, with a black eye, beaten and scarred and with nothing to show for it but a huge pack full of experience. But you survive, for good.

Until then I sadly have to treat the game like some kind of psychological hazardous waste. I will not put me through this again. I can't. At least not anytime soon.

I am a grown man as well, and I spoilered myself as well. And in many ways, you are stronger than me, because I did not even reach the point of no return. I spoilered myself earlier after the End of Act 2 and ... well, n ointention to play more. At the moment I consider freeing my SSD from the game again and isntall something more fun and pleasant there...

 

[Buckadoz]

I am a grown man as well, and I spoilered myself as well. And in many ways, you are stronger than me, because I did not even reach the point of no return. I spoilered myself earlier after the End of Act 2 and ... well, n ointention to play more. At the moment I consider freeing my SSD from the game again and isntall something more fun and pleasant there...

I have plenty of side content that I would love to do, and simultaneously I never want to play this game again so my emotional attachment can fade and I can just stop thinking about Cyberpunk.

 

[Augurianius]

First things first: Hello forum! I'm new here and this is my first post.

Now, to the topic at hand.
Usually I'm not a very public person so I pondered for quite some time whether I should really write this but I think I need to get it off my chest, so here goes.

When I bought Cyberpunk 2077, I really didn't have any special expectations. I didn't follow the development, I didn't follow the hype, I didn't know what was allegedly 'promised' or not. All I knew was, it was made by CDPR and as I just finished Witcher 3 a bit earlier I thought, well, it's probably going to be good.

And boy, was it good! The presentation, the graphics (very impressive even on my elderly PC), the soundtrack, the voice acting, the gameplay, the worldbuilding and the general mood, all of that was top notch quality in my opinion, a great gaming experience. I didn't have any game breaking bugs to speak of and the only time the game crashed was when I accidentally tabbed out and got stuck somewhere in the limbus between game and windows. Sure, there were minor glitches here and there (mostly levitating objects and people or vehicles clipping through walls) but really nothing extreme. Okay, the driving experience could use some polishing, but that shan't be the topic here.

The story however... I mean, it's great, it's written quite well, it has some really shocking plot twists and I don't even mind being railroaded for some parts, but the outcome...
When I reached the point of no return I had to spoiler myself to find out what the best possible ending was, because... because after all of what happened I needed a at least somewhat happy ending. When I found out that there isn't any, it caught me a little off guard. I was devastated for the following reason (and I'm still unsure whether it's clever to write about it in public...):
Earlier this year my spouse passed away after battling terminal breast cancer for four years. And when this game came to the point where the only option I got was to choose how to let V. die and making it clear that there is no way she will survive, something in me triggered. The game put me right back into the mental state I was in when I sat down at a table with four doctors and a psychologist and they told me very carefully but also without any ambiguity that all options were exausted and that my spouse will die, perhaps in the next few days but probably that very same night. In that moment I realized what the world looks like when you reach the end of the line. And for some stupid reason it all came back to me.
(Btw, I'm not writing this to fish for sympathy, just to explain my standpoint, so please refrain from condoling me.)

I know, I know, you might say that it's quite silly for a grown man to get so invested into a fictional character as to trigger such emotions, and normally I would agree with that. Before getting there myself I would have claimed I'm mentally stable enough that a computer game couldn't reach me on that level. Turns out, I was wrong. Apparantly the game and the characters within are so well done that it can punch right through my defenses and hit where it hurts. That was a surprise.
(And is a big compliment for the people who created such a powerful piece of art.)

By the time I'm writing this I already mostly got over the situation and have my shit back together.

i will finish the game with the nomads ending, because that seems to be the least grim situation.
However, after that I won't touch the game again before I know it gets an ending that is happy enough to make the main characters ordeal worthwhile, even if it is just keeping the status quo: You survive, for all I care with nothing but your bare life and the clothes you wear, with a black eye, beaten and scarred and with nothing to show for it but a huge pack full of experience. But you survive, for good.

Until then I sadly have to treat the game like some kind of psychological hazardous waste. I will not put me through this again. I can't. At least not anytime soon.

Due to reasons of my own, related to family as well, I completely understand where you're coming from, actually any game if it is well delivered can bring forth strong emotions and memories, even undertale, or breath of fire, or heck, even tetris at that, minds can be fickle at times I guess.

Having said that, the game just has a bit of impact for me and just that, it is well delivered but it's like reading a book that is mediocre just to find it has an impactful ending, again, for me , that doesn't make it good, it just makes an impactful ending for a something that was so-so making the illusion that it looks good but when going back to it, it's still sorely lacking but has an ending which makes one go "yeah, this is really tough/ugly/addyouradjectivehere"

Post automatically merged: Dec 25, 2020

That's a completely fine perspective to have I just don't happen to agree. This is just one of those topics that we can't really prove each other wrong cause it goes into what is a soul and whatnot.

If there is a copy of a person with the same memories and experiences as them are they the same? Let's assume they are both alive and could even look each other in the eye.
Is it not still a copy?

Well, the game also has a small insight of sorts into that, when you find the monks again and talk with them and Johnny, even a game as... idk [add some adjective here] as Extella link deals with the whole shebang of Body-Mind-Soul in a data perspective so it is weird, guess we have to wait and see how CDPR deals with all of it