[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[lolic99]

And CP77 by the end of the day is about nothing.
Great story that completely lacks punch line since it’s neither about the character (because V is dead) nor about the adventure because world stays the same.

Technically, V only dies in one ending. Half of the others are his/her transformation, the other half are open finals.
But yes, in a game with a flat storyline focused entirely on character survival, moving that survival into an open ending is nonsense.

 

[Barsenthor]

If the game would even give a small hint about continuity at the end, like like that something is in the making like Arasaka is working on the technologi, that Alt founds something to save V, that Biotechnica can do something.

nope, zero, nada. Even more story goes lengths to fill any holes like saying in every occasion that you have 6 months and nothing can be done. Even Mikoshi/Save Your Soul ending is with this classic makeover “there is currently no technology that could save you”. And the side note - said by Goro if you saved him in the why that completely defies his character.

 

[lolic99]

nope, zero, nada. Even more story goes lengths to fill any holes like saying in every occasion that you have 6 months and nothing can be done. Even Mikoshi/Save Your Soul ending is with this classic makeover “there is currently no technology that could save you”. And the side note - said by Goro if you saved him in the why that completely defies his character.

lol... Did it ever occur to you that these Arasaka worms were just lying to V? It's Devil ending

 

[Barsenthor]

Technically, V only dies in one ending. Half of the others are his/her transformation, the other half are open finals.
But yes, in a game with a flat storyline focused entirely on survival, moving survival into an open ending is nonsense.

If only they would make a Soulkiller thing something relevant to the story.
Like give you this option in the middle of the second act with choice either way to with engram or look for other way.
Nope, we hear that Soulkiller kills “soul” (whatever this means in the world deprivated from religion, with even V making remarks to this crazy prophet that no one in NC has soul).
Alt also says that this changes everything in sinister fashion.

So at the end of the game, after countless of hours we are left with option go with Soulkiller or die. Actually you die nevertheless which only adds a sense of complete futility to the mix along with next immersion breaking logical error/plot hole about DNA, which we also hears for the first time.

 

[onosendai7]

Technically, V only dies in one ending. Half of the others are his/her transformation, the other half are open finals.

Nope.
V dies anyway.
Either immediately when merging with Alt (end of V individuality = death), either in 6 months. When the Almighty Deus Ex Machina of the game says "Sorry, 6 months top", you'd better believe it.
So, in my opinion, V's a goner, no matter what.
Also, selling to Arasaka is definitely a bad idea ("Never trust a corp") considering the background. It's clearly shown that Hanako does not give a rat tail about you anymore, and I think uncle Saburo would happily flatline you for good at any moment.

 

[VoodooMacVee]

Is it possible, according to the lore of the game, for example, to abandon Alt, return to the body, connect yourself to the net, then disconnect from the body and fly away into cyberspace alone?

Hmm, I'm really not very knowlegable about the CP lore but as I see it that shouldn't be possible.
Firstly, I'm pretty sure you can't just abandon Alt without its consent, after all Alt is a quite powerful entity.
Secondly, as far as I got it, 'you' are running on a bioprocessor (your brain) and only exchange data with the net via an interface. To disconnect from your body, you would need something like Soulkiller, a software that can exactly analyse and understand how data is stored and processed in your brain, to then digitise and compile it into machine code which can be run on the digital processors of the computers comprising the net. Unfortunately, it seems your brain gets 'formatted' in the process...

Next thing is the glorious marketing stunt. I mean arasaka is literally selling immortality at that point - all you have to do is to sacrifice your own offspring? What the fuck?

Well, the target group for this kind of product are probably only the most filthy rich corpos, people who probably didn't get into their positions because they are so very sympathetic. People like this have 'offspring' because they have built a legacy that they need to pass on to someone, their family at best. But, when you can just come back in a new body, you don't technically die, so there is to need to pass on a legacy - it all can remain in your posession. Which leaves the 'offspring' with a new lifetask: instead of inheriting their parents legacy, they now inherit their parents mind. No need to pass on the baton... Would fit this part of the cyberpunk society perfectly.

Frack me, that's sinister. I'm honestly a bit shocked about myself when I came up with that idea...

There is no need for the cancer, other to make the player feel sick.

That's the whole point. It's not necessary.

I agree and QFT.
It made me feel sick. As I already wrote several hundred pages before, I had my share of terminal condition stories this year, wouldn't have needed another one in my favourite medium of entertainment.
In my opinion, anyone who thinks it'd be a great idea to put a terminal condition into his story just for the shock effect, obviousely didn't have to suffer from one, be it themselves personally or co-suffering from the condition of a loved one. I already had both, cancer myself (got healed, I'm good) and I also accompanied my GF through her four years of terminal cancer, from diagnosis till the bitter end. That is not something you just shrug off. And it is no fun in any way or form.

I don't even mind if is handled in a meaningful and respectful way, to tell a story, or to show all the moral and emotional struggles that go with such conditions. But just for shit and giggles or the sheer drama? No, no and no. I won't have that, dear storywriters. That is bad taste and can leave your audience with a really soured experience.

ALSO, WHY AM I COUGHING UP BLOOD? This legit was not explained and still makes no sense?????

For the effect. It ought to make you feel awkward. Because coughing up blood is a terrifying experience, I can tell you that much.

 

[Barsenthor]

lol... Did it ever occur to you that these Arasaka worms were just lying to V? It's Devil ending

Story wise no. Hanako goes great lengths to save V even is there are countless opportunities to flatline him/her.

for me as much as I like this ending for its sinister feel, it doesn’t make much sens.
On the one hand Arasaka pour millions eddis into saving V. On the other it’s still the same ending, with the same illogical DNA thing.

On the side note this even contradicts the science itself. DNA has nothing to do with how synapses are formed other then some
rudimentary rules. And the way synapses are formed how many with which neurons is responsible for everything In brain especially with higher functions like intelligence and personality.
They are formed completely unrelated to the DNA in this aspect, and more during maturation of brain.
The biochip probably works in the way that it is mapping neurons and it’s synapses which again is not DNA related.

oh another plot hole.

 

[lolic99]

If only they would make a Soulkiller thing something relevant to the story.
Like give you this option in the middle of the second act with choice either way to with engram or look for other way.
Nope, we hear that Soulkiller kills “soul” (whatever this means in the world deprivated from religion, with even V making remarks to this crazy prophet that no one in NC has soul).
Alt also says that this changes everything in sinister fashion.

So at the end of the game, after countless of hours we are left with option go with Soulkiller or die. Actually you die nevertheless which only adds a sense of complete futility to the mix along with next immersion breaking logical error/plot hole about DNA, which we also hears for the first time.

As I already wrote, I do not see a problem in the Soulkiller.
There are two options here.
Or this device magically transfers a digital semblance of a soul (since the soul cannot be copied).
Or it just copies the contents of memory (and creates a simulation based on this memory).
In the first case, V will always be V, no matter which body you load it into.
In the second case, a copy of V will be if you load memory into another body. But V's memory is loaded back into V's body. So it can only be V.
I don't understand why the popular point of view is that V died.

 

[onosendai7]

On the one hand Arasaka pour millions eddis into saving V. On the other it’s still the same ending, with the same illogical DNA thing.

V.'s a guinea pig and gives Arasaka a chance to observe how the relic may interact with a wounded host. That's good for them. The R&D allowance may easily cope with that expense.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

As I already wrote, I do not see a problem in the Soulkiller.
There are two options here.
Or this device magically transfers a digital semblance of a soul (since the soul cannot be copied).
Or it just copies the contents of memory (and creates a simulation based on this memory).
In the first case, V will always be V, no matter which body you load it into.
In the second case, a copy of V will be if you load memory into another body. But V's memory is loaded back into V's body. So it can only be V.
I don't understand why the popular point of view is that V died.

Because either V. merges with Alt and bye bye V., or V. regains V.'s body and 6 month later, "bye bye V." the same.

 

[lolic99]

Story wise no. Hanako goes great lengths to save V even is there are countless opportunities to flatline him/her.

In a sense, he is "saved". Like the rest of the captive "souls".
Johnny warned not in vain not to trust the corpo-rats. As well as Misty's cards.

 

[arcsirc]

As I already wrote, I do not see a problem in the Soulkiller.
There are two options here.
Or this device magically transfers a digital semblance of a soul (since the soul cannot be copied).
Or it just copies the contents of memory (and creates a simulation based on this memory).
In the first case, V will always be V, no matter which body you load it into.
In the second case, a copy of V will be if you load memory into another body. But V's memory is loaded back into V's body. So it can only be V.
I don't understand why the popular point of view is that V died.

because "cancer"

 

[apeabel]

because "cancer"

it thought it was something something AI tells you soul dies now.

 

[lolic99]

Because either V. merges with Alt and bye bye V., or V. regains V.'s body and 6 month later, "bye bye V." the same.

What I meant was that the very fact of loading V's personality into cyber reality and loading it back into his body is not a murder or a substitute. It's the same V. I read here a lot of posts that V died, and in the endings - a copy of V.
Ending with Alt or 6 months is harder.
Cyber-V is undergoing a transformation, he is no longer the same V.
The endings where he is left to live for 6 months - an open final. Sad but not inevitable. V's death is not shown anywhere.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

because "cancer"

This is a little different. It's about the Soulkiller.

 

[arcsirc]

What I meant was that the very fact of loading V's personality into cyber reality and loading it back into his body is not a murder or a substitute. It's the same V. I read here a lot of posts that V died, and in the endings - a copy of V.
Ending with Alt or 6 months is harder.
Cyber-V is undergoing a transformation, he is no longer the same V.
The endings where he is left to live for 6 months - an open final. Sad but not inevitable. V's death is not shown anywhere.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

This is a little different. It's about the Soulkiller.

that is completely my mistake, I confess I was a little trigger happy there with my response and didn't even properly read your post, i'm actually on your side in this particular argument and have made the case for it myself in the past.

 

[Barsenthor]

As I already wrote, I do not see a problem in the Soulkiller.
There are two options here.
Or this device magically transfers a digital semblance of a soul (since the soul cannot be copied).
Or it just copies the contents of memory (and creates a simulation based on this memory).
In the first case, V will always be V, no matter which body you load it into.
In the second case, a copy of V will be if you load memory into another body. But V's memory is loaded back into V's body. So it can only be V.
I don't understand why the popular point of view is that V died.

The game makes a problem of it, and this is done during the conversation with Alt. There are two crucial information.
First that Soulkiller is killing a person (literally) and then copy it’s memory, and then they are uploaded on the biochip.
This is an entry to to classic trans humanism dilemma - it you could copy you while being would this be you or another person.
second - Alt says that this “changes everything”. This is what unnerve many people here.

V.'s a guinea pig and gives Arasaka a chance to observe how the relic may interact with a wounded host. That's good for them. The R&D allowance may easily cope with that expense.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

Because either V. merges with Alt and bye bye V., or V. regains V.'s body and 6 month later, "bye bye V." the same.

Goro even says this - that engrams are not humans in the meaning of law.
Story wise it’s probably done so you will sign the papers. Hanako Is one of the most skill netrunners and only few who fully understand Soulkiller.
She is even capable to copy engrams, and probably also reprogram them.
So the main objective is to repogram V since story wise s/he manages to steal the biochip, survive the whole 2-3 act, defeat Oda and Smasher.

it would be cool to see the continuation of this ending. Dreaming time...

 

[Kikinho]

The game makes a problem of it, and this is done during the conversation with Alt. There are two crucial information.
First that Soulkiller is killing a person (literally) and then copy it’s memory, and then they are uploaded on the biochip.
This is an entry to to classic trans humanism dilemma - it you could copy you while being would this be you or another person.
second - Alt says that this “changes everything”. This is what unnerve many people here.



Goro even says this - that engrams are not humans in the meaning of law.
Story wise it’s probably done so you will sign the papers. Hanako Is one of the most skill netrunners and only few who fully understand Soulkiller.
She is even capable to copy engrams, and probably also reprogram them.
So the main objective is to repogram V since story wise s/he manages to steal the biochip, survive the whole 2-3 act, defeat Oda and Smasher.

it would be cool to see the continuation of this ending. Dreaming time...

I personally would love to see a story about dealing with the Arasaka dilemma. Tbh that was what I was expecting after the brain surgery, really didn't expect the story to end there.

 

[arcsirc]

act 3: 1% of my game experience

 

[lolic99]

The game makes a problem of it, and this is done during the conversation with Alt. There are two crucial information.
First that Soulkiller is killing a person (literally) and then copy it’s memory, and then they are uploaded on the biochip.
This is an entry to to classic trans humanism dilemma - it you could copy you while being would this be you or another person.
second - Alt says that this “changes everything”. This is what unnerve many people here.

Ok, I get the point.
But again. If personality, in the opinion of the game, is just memory - what's the difference? It is still V's memory, returning to V's body. "File cannot be copied onto itself".
If the personality is something more, it is really a soul that can only be torn out of the body, which leads to death - the same conclusion. V's soul returns to V's body.
I have not seen any mention of the ability to copy "souls" in the game. Each "soul" is unique.

 

[Kikinho]

Ok, I get the point.
But again. If personality, in the opinion of the game, is just memory - what's the difference? It is still V's memory, returning to V's body.
If the personality is something more, it is really a soul that can only be torn out of the body, which leads to death - the same conclusion. V's soul returns to V's body.
I have not seen any mention of the ability to copy "souls" in the game. Each "soul" is unique.

That is the issue. What Alt says contradicts the way the game treats the Soulkiller. And the game won't explain what Alt meant about everything changing after it. Because if we look how it's presented in the end, nothing has changed for V. So what was Alt refering to?

 

[lolic99]

That is the issue. What Alt says contradicts the way the game treats the Soulkiller. And the game won't explain what Alt meant about everything changing after it. Because if we look how it's presented in the end, nothing has changed for V. So what was Alt refering to?

It seems that she is talking about the changes that have occurred to herself.
A personality torn out of the body and being in cyber reality for a long time changes forever.