[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[naddaya]

It seems that she is talking about the changes that have occurred to herself.
A personality torn out of the body and being in cyber reality for a long time changes forever.

That's also my impression. According to the shards and wiki, Soulkiller 1.0 (the commercialized version) just copies memories, Soulkiller 2.0 is more complex and might maintain/transfer the consciousness. Alt mentions returning V's consciousness to their body in Mikoshi, don't remember the exact line. Hellman of course is sceptic about it, but he didn't even think that Johnny's engram would work.
It's not just a matter of raw data, consciousness is a phenomenon, we know little about how it works and the ingame information is conflicting. I posted some other stuff about Soulkiller, linked it before but this thread is crazy active:
- Consciousness as a process
- Ingame symbolism

The fact that Soulkiller physically kills is not necessarily worrying in V's case, they're directly hooked up to Mikoshi and their brain is not "fried". You can be resuscitated from clinical death. Losing the soul might be literal or simply refer to engrams losing touch with reality once left in cyberspace for too long. This would fit the game's recurring theme about humanity's progressive, destructive detachment from nature (cyberpsychosis, zen master talk, final shard in The Star's ending etc).

 

[Kikinho]

It seems that she is talking about the changes that have occurred to herself.
A personality torn out of the body and being in cyber reality for a long time changes forever.

That is a theory yes. But it's not explained properly. And the solution they were talking about did involve putting V back into his body right away. So in light of that, Alt's comment was not needed/irrelevant to V's situation.

 

[Subenu]

mh... I played out several endings until now (still more or less my first playthrough though) and took several paths and I'd like to know if it's like that for everyone (I mean, we know the endings by now, but ... just because xD
I'd also like to adress the mails you get during the credits.

Since we're in the spoiler thread I won't separately mark this as spoiler, so beware

I had some voicemails that were kind of the same and didn't really change at all (because side content?)
- Rogue wanted me to tell Johnny something and wished good luck to us.
- River thanked me for helping him and the boy and started to become a weapons merchant (no better way to describe it xD)
- Kerry gave me the info that he will probably tour with Us Cracks and "cursed my absence" xD
- Peralez thanked me, said his wife was in cahoots with "them" and said she wanted to make him take "vitamins", he's not really able to prove it but he knows and wants our help.
- I think Mitch was kind of samey during all the endings (if I recall correctly)

So I'll try to give the endings a label

Suicide ending:
This one is particularly sad in my opinion, as is with suicides :/
The only "good" thing was, that Johnny and V were able to come to an agreement for this decision (even though he'd have done it otherwise) and both at least wanting to leave the world together
-> Judy was crushed, as she was with Eves death, crying
-> Panam was really furious and cussing you, for your selfishness etc
-> Vik was kind of "encouraged" by Misty to leave a Message for me fr the afterlife to be able to cope with the situation
-> Misty didn't give you a Mail

Nomad ending;
V takes her body (Judy romance/Panam Friendship/family) and attacks the Arasaka Tower with the Nomads through a tunnel to get to Mikoshi. Saul dies by the feet of Adam Smasher in the Bossfight.
- Riding off towards Tucsan and getting helped in Arizona, we drive off into the night through the desert~
- Judy finds her new home and the voicemail she sends us takes places while I cook breakfast for us
- Panam is leading the Aldecaldos, Mitch and Cassidy survived
- The voicemails are pretty positive, Vik wants us to come by again and the tarot cards of Misty are showing a good live in the wasteland and freedom awaits, she wishes us good luck.

V offers her body to Johnnys Engram and goes with Alt (gets freed/absorbed) (Johnny is pretty pissed during your choice)
-> Johnny ending (going with Steve, getting him a guitar and leaving NC with a bus etc)
-> Judy is depressed and leaves NC
-> Panam doesn't know why you don't answer and wishes us to take care
-> Vik didn't hear anything but wishes you to come by again
-> Misty is really worried and troubled because she sees you as not really alive nor dead

Arasaka ending:
In my Arasaka ending Saburos Engram took over Yorinobus body and came back to lead his corporation in a fresh body

V kind of got rid of Johnny and was "treated" on a Space-station and living your live in an endless hellish cycle of tests and always the same, going mad wanting to break out. In the meantime you are allowed to call important persons who ask you where the hell you are xD
You also get a glimpse of what is happening in NC through the news tv.

Hellman, which I saved in the mission before came to "my help" and offered me two choices:
"Join" Mikoshi and 'save my soul' or going back to earth with the little time we got left.
-> Getting into Mikoshi at this point you will be taken to a seat and then... nothingness.

-> when you choose to gain your 'freedom' you take your belongings and make your way towards the shuttle. It's not really shown, but it seems your time might have already run out and you die on your way.
-> The following voicemails are more on the sad/negative side and Mistys tarot cards are also kind of grim.

Johnny ending:
He rallies Rogue and companions to launch an impressive yet kind of plump attack onto the Arasaka tower to get into Mikoshi. Rogue dies by the feet of Adam Smasher.
-> When he decides to keep Vs body it goes to the Johnny ending (see above), but you can see the epilogie in the cyberspace from his perspective.

-> He decides to give V back her body and go with Alt (your alter ego V is pretty pissed during the choice)
You, V, are now the head of the Afterlife because of Rogues death and possibly go onto rampage and "impossible" missions. becoming a legend of NC because of the time you have left you want to go out with a bang. Living yours and Jackies dream from the beginning. Ah yeah, and you live together with Judy (bc female V) in a nice expensive penthouse. There you meet Mr Blue Eyes who offers you (maybe your last?) a job. Attacking the Space-Casino. And while you embark into Space and are on your way to this mission, it ends... (maybe dlc, maybe you die in this very moment)
The voicemails are mixed, on the negative side and Mistys Cards are rather grim

...........

So why did I wrote this and "wasted my time"? I don't really know, maybe I wanted to write it down somewhere, maybe I just wanted to get feedback if there might be anything else happening and compare "endings" so we get a better picture?! Something like that. Did I forget something, was anything wrong? Please correct me and/or have a good day

 

[gotty_02]

Been thinking about the ending on and off -- suppose that's already a good indication that the game did something right.

Read people here being adamant about their V deserving a happy ending and don't really get it. My V did loads of atrocious things, lots of killing and the main motivation from the start was to 'become a legend' one as hollow as possible. The correct conclusion to a story like that is a bad ending.

Might have been neat to get a really short ending that would have left things ambigious in regards to the player being unsure in the end if it was Johnny or V who retained control and the body but perhaps such things have been a bit overdone.

 

[Blaz1us]

Been thinking about the ending on and off -- suppose that's already a good indication that the game did something right.

Read people here being adamant about their V deserving a happy ending and don't really get it. My V did loads of atrocious things, lots of killing and the main motivation from the start was to 'become a legend' one as hollow as possible. The correct conclusion to a story like that is a bad ending.

Might have been neat to get a really short ending that would have left things ambigious in regards to the player being unsure in the end if it was Johnny or V who retained control and the body but perhaps such things have been a bit overdone.

Disagree. Post Relic the goal was to survive I'd say. Also you could play the game without killing anyone, unironically I had a mod that made all my weapons non lethal and played through half of it with it and didn't even notice. Would've been great say if it reflected on the ending or some consequence in any way Oh yeah I also let Oda live, never seen him again apart from Smasher mentioning him once at the end.

In almost any shooter rpg or game we kill people and do nasty stuff does not mean that ALL of the endings have to doom us I'd say

 

[Subenu]

Disagree. Post Relic the goal was to survive I'd say. Also you could play the game without killing anyone, unironically I had a mod that made all my weapons non lethal and played through half of it with it and didn't even notice. Would've been great say if it reflected on the ending or some consequence in any way Oh yeah I also let Oda live, never seen him again apart from Smasher mentioning him once at the end.

In almost any shooter rpg or game we kill people and do nasty stuff does not mean that ALL of the endings have to doom us I'd say

I'm rather fickle on this. Sometimes I kill them, sometimes I let em live. also may depend on the occassion. And with this I mean the random npcs. Some may have luck, so I just reboot their system and knock them out this way, while the others brain explores
on the other hand, I also let Oda live. My assumption may be, if we would've been able to talk his interference out of him before, when we had the chance with Takemura, we might not have had to fight Oda at all. Just a thought. This was probably my hardest fight of them all, I have to confess.
Would've been a nice addition so we could'Ve gotten "more karma" on our side

 

[LordSareth]

Been thinking about the ending on and off -- suppose that's already a good indication that the game did something right.

Read people here being adamant about their V deserving a happy ending and don't really get it. My V did loads of atrocious things, lots of killing and the main motivation from the start was to 'become a legend' one as hollow as possible. The correct conclusion to a story like that is a bad ending.

Might have been neat to get a really short ending that would have left things ambigious in regards to the player being unsure in the end if it was Johnny or V who retained control and the body but perhaps such things have been a bit overdone.

So johnny with nuke in the city deserves happy ending huh? Besides it was your V, maybe mine killed only bad guys? Or when needed to? Well to me that legend thing is a little stretch, i tried to play my V as merc in the gray area, not a legend. And a quote from one of my favorites books and movies by the way

“Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”

As I already wrote, I do not see a problem in the Soulkiller.
There are two options here.
Or this device magically transfers a digital semblance of a soul (since the soul cannot be copied).
Or it just copies the contents of memory (and creates a simulation based on this memory).
In the first case, V will always be V, no matter which body you load it into.
In the second case, a copy of V will be if you load memory into another body. But V's memory is loaded back into V's body. So it can only be V.
I don't understand why the popular point of view is that V died.

The problem i have with soulkiller that it is said it wipes brain cleanly. Then digitalised all of memories etc. It is no longer a biological machine, but artificial one. Can this transition occur without any loses? (Even alt says something along the lines "correcting errors" towards engram). Can this transition keep the "soul"?
If you say there is no soul, then 100 V in the same bodies, the same memories are still V?
What if there is the soul, are 100 V in the same bodies(Clones), with same memories, create one V?

 

[Kikinho]

I'm rather fickle on this. Sometimes I kill them, sometimes I let em live. also may depend on the occassion. And with this I mean the random npcs. Some may have luck, so I just reboot their system and knock them out this way, while the others brain explores
on the other hand, I also let Oda live. My assumption may be, if we would've been able to talk his interference out of him before, when we had the chance with Takemura, we might not have had to fight Oda at all. Just a thought. This was probably my hardest fight of them all, I have to confess.
Would've been a nice addition so we could'Ve gotten "more karma" on our side

I didnt kill him because Takemura asked so. It was a simple decision! I'd do anything for that man.

 

[Master_Plot]

I finished the game like 20 days ago and still can't sleep well over those endings

 

[Kikinho]

I finished the game like 20 days ago and still can't sleep well over those endings

I feel you! I swear I feel like my mind is trapped in the game until a new story dlc is released.

Edit: Maybe the Soulkiller was the game after all!

 

[AelaaSnow]

I finished the game like 20 days ago and still can't sleep well over those endings

I always read the plot/endings spoilers in the game i play because i dont want to end with bad ending on my first playthrough and then be sad. So when i found out there is no happyend - not gonna lie i felt huge disappointment. Im in loving/hating relationship with this game - there are some cool features and Night City is so beautiful yet game is unbearably cutted - wont be patched sadly.

...So what i did is ive just stopped progress in the main quest till we see dlcs... And theres nothing to do after clearing map and side missions/gigs. Im kinda sad too.

So this is summary of all my feelings when i saw all cutted content and endings which means no role playing for me except outfits -

 

[Blaz1us]

I feel you! I swear I feel like my mind is trapped in the game until a new story dlc is released.

Edit: Maybe the Soulkiller was the game after all!

Indeed, I have moved on to other games ( AC:V) but I browse this forum on the daily, I dont think I have ever been this invested in a singleplayer game forum, really, only MP shooters in the recent years, but I want CDPR to succeed.

on the other hand, I also let Oda live. My assumption may be, if we would've been able to talk his interference out of him before, when we had the chance with Takemura, we might not have had to fight Oda at all. Just a thought. This was probably my hardest fight of them all, I have to confess.
Would've been a nice addition so we could'Ve gotten "more karma" on our side

Well yes maybe we wouldnt have had to fight him but spoiler alert... we can't unfortunately no matter what you 'choose' you cant convince him...

 

[SaulTuk]

Been thinking about the ending on and off -- suppose that's already a good indication that the game did something right.

Read people here being adamant about their V deserving a happy ending and don't really get it. My V did loads of atrocious things, lots of killing and the main motivation from the start was to 'become a legend' one as hollow as possible. The correct conclusion to a story like that is a bad ending.

Might have been neat to get a really short ending that would have left things ambigious in regards to the player being unsure in the end if it was Johnny or V who retained control and the body but perhaps such things have been a bit overdone.

On the one hand, you're right. Who lives by violence, dies violently and early. From the other, guys are right about one thing - you can make it to the end without killing a single person, reject gigs you abhor and make your very best to help people. Okay, inevitable death of repenting hero is a powerful trop, but you must use it correctly, as in Red Dead Redemption. 6 months problem feels lazy and bad writing, like sudden "rock falls, everyone dies".
If only the game somehow noticed your decisions and gameplay (violent or not), your empathy (how you treat other people), how strongly yours and Johny's psyches are intervined, that would be good ending.
For example, you packed with implants like Smasher, you treated others like shit, you and Johny became best pals (you has his gun, his car and helped him make amends with his friends), and in the end Alt says, that your psyches are intervined, which led to a bad side effects during separation - you will die in 6 months. And your Empathy is so low, that V decides, fuch this world, fuck meatbags, i'm going to cyberspace. Or you can have high Empathy, and keep Johny at distance, sacrificing his friendship, his gear and his quest, but you got normal lifespan in the end.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

Yes. That's one of multiple ways to look at the implied problem.

I could also argue, that V already died in the motel when Mr chill stopped being chill.

In a sense, that would give player a sense of freedom. V died, each breath after this is a gift and blessing, use it wisely. Same feeling you got in Red Dead Redemption 2 after visiting the doctor, who tells you about tuberculosis. You are free, because you're already dead, so burn bright, try your very best to help people around, whatever.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

I think that everyone here will agree that 6 months crap feels sudden "rock falls, everyone dies" of bad DM - lazy writing.
As for the wishful thinking, i got one idea. V can befriend Johny, help him realize what an asshole he are, help him make amends with friends and beloved, and act like a Johny throughout the game - enjoy his friendship, his car, his gear and his approval. But this lead V to high value of johny-meter, and in Mikoshi Alt will say, well, V, yours and Johny's psyches are so intervined that i couldn't separate them without bad side effects - you will die in 6 months.
On a contrary, V can keep Johny at distance, sacrificing his quests and gear, denying him the chance to make amends, do not act like him during gameplay, and in Mikoshi you get separated cleanly and part ways on bad terms. V got normal lifespan. That, in my opinion, would be close to a spirit of Witcher 3 endings - you can't get everything, each gains costs sacrifice.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

I feel you! I swear I feel like my mind is trapped in the game until a new story dlc is released.

Edit: Maybe the Soulkiller was the game after all!

If only we got 6 months crap as a evident result of our entire gameplay, that would feel less injust. For example, V can befriend Johny, enjoy his quests, gear, act like Johny throughout entire gameplay (like narcissic rebel rockerboy) and in Mikoshi Alt will tell V, well, yours and Johny psyche are so simular and intervined, so i can't separate them without bad side effects - you will die in 6 months.
On a contrary, you can keep Johny at distance, do not act like him, sacrificing his friendship, quests and approval, but saving your own life.

 

[lolic99]

The problem i have with soulkiller that it is said it wipes brain cleanly. Then digitalised all of memories etc. It is no longer a biological machine, but artificial one. Can this transition occur without any loses? (Even alt says something along the lines "correcting errors" towards engram). Can this transition keep the "soul"?
If you say there is no soul, then 100 V in the same bodies, the same memories are still V?
What if there is the soul, are 100 V in the same bodies(Clones), with same memories, create one V?

Nobody says that there can be no losses. At the very least, V doesn't have any serious brain damage.
If there is no soul, the original V is V's memory in the original V's body. V's memory is in another body, even a clone is a copy.
If there is a soul, there will always be only one V. In this case, it is not the body that is primary, but the soul, which cannot be copied, only moved. Here V is the soul of V in any body. In the case of a game, in the body of V.
It seems that the game perceives the personality as something material, as a configuration of the brain that can be recreated by nanites (after all, memory is also a state of brain neurons). And in this case, V at the end looks like a restored V, but not a copy. The same person in the same body, after all. It's my opinion.

 

[Simuxas]

On the one hand, you're right. Who lives by violence, dies violently and early. From the other, guys are right about one thing - you can make it to the end without killing a single person, reject gigs you abhor and make your very best to help people. Okay, inevitable death of repenting hero is a powerful trop, but you must use it correctly, as in Red Dead Redemption. 6 months problem feels lazy and bad writing, like sudden "rock falls, everyone dies".
If only the game somehow noticed your decisions and gameplay (violent or not), your empathy (how you treat other people), how strongly yours and Johny's psyches are intervined, that would be good ending.
For example, you packed with implants like Smasher, you treated others like shit, you and Johny became best pals (you has his gun, his car and helped him make amends with his friends), and in the end Alt says, that your psyches are intervined, which led to a bad side effects during separation - you will die in 6 months. And your Empathy is so low, that V decides, fuch this world, fuck meatbags, i'm going to cyberspace. Or you can have high Empathy, and keep Johny at distance, sacrificing his friendship, his gear and his quest, but you got normal lifespan in the end.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

In a sense, that would give player a sense of freedom. V died, each breath after this is a gift and blessing, use it wisely. Same feeling you got in Red Dead Redemption 2 after visiting the doctor, who tells you about tuberculosis. You are free, because you're already dead, so burn bright, try your very best to help people around, whatever.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

I think that everyone here will agree that 6 months crap feels sudden "rock falls, everyone dies" of bad DM - lazy writing.
As for the wishful thinking, i got one idea. V can befriend Johny, help him realize what an asshole he are, help him make amends with friends and beloved, and act like a Johny throughout the game - enjoy his friendship, his car, his gear and his approval. But this lead V to high value of johny-meter, and in Mikoshi Alt will say, well, V, yours and Johny's psyches are so intervined that i couldn't separate them without bad side effects - you will die in 6 months.
On a contrary, V can keep Johny at distance, sacrificing his quests and gear, denying him the chance to make amends, do not act like him during gameplay, and in Mikoshi you get separated cleanly and part ways on bad terms. V got normal lifespan. That, in my opinion, would be close to a spirit of Witcher 3 endings - you can't get everything, each gains costs sacrifice.

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

If only we got 6 months crap as a evident result of our entire gameplay, that would feel less injust. For example, V can befriend Johny, enjoy his quests, gear, act like Johny throughout entire gameplay (like narcissic rebel rockerboy) and in Mikoshi Alt will tell V, well, yours and Johny psyche are so simular and intervined, so i can't separate them without bad side effects - you will die in 6 months.
On a contrary, you can keep Johny at distance, do not act like him, sacrificing his friendship, quests and approval, but saving your own life.

Thats what i was thinging gonna happen when i reached act 2. But...

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

Nobody says that there can be no losses. At the very least, V doesn't have any serious brain damage.
If there is no soul, the original V is V's memory in the original V's body. V's memory is in another body, even a clone is a copy.
If there is a soul, there will always be only one V. In this case, it is not the body that is primary, but the soul, which cannot be copied, only moved. Here V is the soul of V in any body. In the case of a game, in the body of V.
It seems that the game perceives the personality as something material, as a configuration of the brain that can be recreated by nanites (after all, memory is also a state of brain neurons). And in this case, V at the end looks like a restored V, but not a copy. The same person in the same body, after all. It's my opinion.

Doesnt rlymatter how you look at it, V has expiration date of 6 months anyway.

 

[Void Eclipse]

Did they really think that 7 endings in a "RPG" where the main character dies no matter what was going to be satisfying?

7 endings? More like 3 endings, - engram, die, and die later.

 

[Notserious80]

Well this is one of the things that really pisses me off about this game. Too much symbolism thats based on religion or mysticism. What do they meen with a Soul? How does the wipe work? Can you wipe a brain without killing it? Even nowdays we can pretty much keep ppl who are braindead alive with the help of machines.. Everything just feels poorly though out. EXPLAIN GAME! EXPLAAAIIINNNN!!!

 

[Simuxas]

This is not realted, but recently saw Watchdogs Gun-Fu gameplay and it looked rly cool.
CDPR had frikin Keanu and you wanna tell me, they didint think about giving us some Gun fu?

Post automatically merged: Dec 30, 2020

Well this is one of the things that really pisses me off about this game. Too much symbolism thats based on religion or mysticism. What do they meen with a Soul? How does the wipe work? Can you wipe a brain without killing it? Even nowdays we can pretty much keep ppl who are braindead alive with the help of machines.. Everything just feels poorly though out. EXPLAIN GAME! EXPLAAAIIINNNN!!!

Game doesnt need to explain it rly, the copy or not question should be discussed as we do her, but 6 months ruin it.

 

[Barsenthor]

Ok, I get the point.
But again. If personality, in the opinion of the game, is just memory - what's the difference? It is still V's memory, returning to V's body. "File cannot be copied onto itself".
If the personality is something more, it is really a soul that can only be torn out of the body, which leads to death - the same conclusion. V's soul returns to V's body.
I have not seen any mention of the ability to copy "souls" in the game. Each "soul" is unique.

The easiest way to explain this would be to ask youself would you use a Soulkiller if you would be in this situation, knowing everything you know in game. This is that program make a backup copy of your being like memories, skilles and so on. Then it wipe the brain and shut it down. And then in the matter of seconds restarts it with the backup from the biochip.

this would be terrific topic to discuss, and be can only hope that CDPR will do this.

But in the main quest it wasn’t used, and even worst like for some reasons they downplayed this.
V is put in the situation when there is no choice at all - either way die now or get a glimpse of hope that this was not all in vain with endgram.
This renders whole discussion somehow pointless.

 

[lolic99]

Doesnt rlymatter how you look at it, V has expiration date of 6 months anyway.

I agree, but for now this is an open final. I hope CDPR will do something with this in DLC.
Otherwise, it is pointless to play second time.