Completely agree, I want to continue to play but I can not make myself, I feel anxious and kinda sick. And now I feel some kind of emptiness that nothing fills it and it is not good.
Y'know, even though I really like the writing (including the endings) I must admit they make me feel so damn hollow and sad I don't know if it's a good or bad thing. I must say they did a really good job with the characters, I felt really attached to them.
exactly the point I'm making.
also, the "mixed signals by design" excuse only exacerbates the problem. it's not an artsy walking simulator where the only goal is to tell an invoking story. this is a supposed rpg with active player input that should be counted. what, it contadicts the story you are trying to tell? well damn, maybe you've chosen a wrong medium to tell it.
It is in a way. Though we are talking about a sentient being and not an object. But in the end this discussion doesn't even matter because the copy dies anyways. And that is the problem. The fact he dies makes any kind of lession or thought experiment irrelevent.
Edit: Or hell, if we decide to go with the copy, then we could explore what it means for V and of he/she feels a complete self or does it cause any kind of existential dread? Then there would be a point to the story, there would be a lession/conclusion.
Ignoring the wording ingame, here is an example from start trek: In ST ENT , when Transporters were a new thing, the crew was worried about this exact thing. What tells me that the transporter doesnt just create a copy of me, and kills me in the process ? In the end we dont really know. Again, "what am i" is a critical element of the cyberpunk genre. Do electric sheep dream?
No. This is the ship of Theseus being built in another dry dock, then burning the original ship.
The "twist" on what would be a normal clone is that the new person starts with all the original's memories. Both are living beings with whatever passes for a soul in cyberpunk.
Now, maybe the intention was that Soulkiller ripping the 'soul' out of the body is what kills it, and the soul is preserved to be put into the new body, but if so, that wasn't communicated very clearly at all.
Could have completely expanded upon this with sequel or DLC. Trying to find a cure if it still said 6 moths to live, but/or find out if it is really you or a copy of yourself.
The actual line goes like this: "Your consciousness, neural engrams, will be recorded as data. The rest will cease to exist". V can ask (in a goddamn blue line) what is "the rest", and Alt says "The soul. I did not grant the program its name, but Soulkiller does precisely what it promises to do".
so, yeah.
I'm fairly certain Soulkiller destroys the brain during the process, no after.
Very disappointed that nothing we do matters and we just die regardless. In a supposedly choice based game it feels cheap. If you have a set character and set story on rails then it makes sense to have no control of the outcome but to have smoke blown up our asses the whole time like we're doing all this stuff to actually accomplish something only to be like "oh jk this wont actually work, you die now lol" is annoying. Why did I bother instead of just doing random tasks that interested me until the timer ran out. Would have had the same outcome.
Indeed. I hate how that line wasn't explored or challenged more ingame. It might not be an issue for a V that doesn't believe in a soul. But he is being "lectured" by someone who went through it. And isn't mistisizm/spiritualism part of cyberpunk themes?
Someone back there wanted to summarise what has been discussed so far. I think your post pretty much does that
Which would have been something interesting to think about/live with but since even the copied version dies no matter what, that interesting conundrum is wasted and moot.
Last edited:
yeah, this too. in Joshua's questline I actually said I do believe in God. for a believer the idea of destroying your soul should be unacceptable.
we have Buddhists who don't use implants as not to mar themselves yet we should pretend the idea of losing a soul isn't at all scary for someone who has previously stated they believe in God.
and before someone says that in this case V should choose death - no. a) believing in God doesn't take away a person's desire to survive and b) suicide is a grave sin anyway.
There's so much they could've explored... The sixth attribute (though it looks like it'll be unlocked on a DLC), Trauma Team, NCPD as a faction, MaxTac squadrons, NetWatch... Good endings, gray endings, bad endings where V survives but on a warped, fucked up way... Instead they went with "Choices don't matter" and "Pick your ending"...
Guys I've been thinking...
The original V dies with a bullet in their head. It's the biochip that restores their life back but it's never stated how it does that.
Could it be that you're already an engram of the original V? That would make the whole debate about copy/not copy irrelevant.
The original V dies with a bullet in their head. It's the biochip that restores their life back but it's never stated how it does that.
Could it be that you're already an engram of the original V? That would make the whole debate about copy/not copy irrelevant.
err.. to work backwards from this... there are actually a few games about illnesses terminal or otherwise, and they're all very... while I won't say enjoyable, they're still gripping. Pyre, Beyond Eyes, Alan Wake, Hellblade, That Dragon Cancer, even cult classics like Deus Ex deal with life, death, failure and addiction.Except, again, this is supposed to be a 'choices matter' RPG. Cyberpunk or not, it was a bit of a jebait with how much they talked about 'better RPG than witcher' and 'best RPG we ever made', but all we got was a linear story with 3 flavours of dissatisfying ending.
Like yeah, Nerevarine, Dragonborn, Dragon Age hero, Shepard, Vault Dweller, Witcher, Kiryu and other iconic RPG characters also die at some point, but that doesn't mean the game has to focus on that. The point of a story is to be enjoyable; These endings were not. You can be dark and still be enjoyable. This story fails at this.
The only reason the story is even -decent- is because the characters are written and acted extremely well; The actual story they're a part of, if you give it any amount of thought, is actually really rather boring, predictable, and ends in an insulting way.
The staple of cyberpunk genre is attempting to rebel against corpo tropes, but I guess accepting that 'its bad because its cyberpunk' is just what you do, because either you die young or live long enough to accept the corpo way.
Johnny Silverhand's story is attacking Arasaka and dying, they're -literally- rehashing his arc with this game, except you don't even get a nuke to 'go out with a bang'. There's a reason no one makes games about where you're a corpo accountant and get gunned down by terrorists, because that'd be a very boring game. The same reason no one makes 'realistic' games about having a terminal illness. It's just not an enjoyable experience.
"Like yeah, Nerevarine, Dragonborn, Dragon Age hero, Shepard, Vault Dweller, Witcher, Kiryu and other iconic RPG characters also die at some point, but that doesn't mean the game has to focus on that. The point of a story is to be enjoyable; These endings were not. You can be dark and still be enjoyable. This story fails at this."
The entire point, the major exclamation point of the entire game was that V is going to die in 2 weeks because Johnny is overwriting his personality, and taking control of V's body. In game you learn, that wasn't the truth. Alt tells you this, you even see it during the main character's first interaction with Johnny when Johnny physically shoves V away from the pills.
the "Good" ending, is where Panam gives him 6 more months, and maybe sorta doesn't die, or where you join Alt beyond the Black wall.
"The staple of cyberpunk genre is attempting to rebel against corpo tropes, but I guess accepting that 'its bad because its cyberpunk' is just what you do, because either you die young or live long enough to accept the corpo way."
The point is to make due with every, single step. To carve out some means to be remembered. All of the characters surrounding you tell you this, from Jackie, Viktor, Dexter DeShawn, Misty, even Rogue, and Johnny. V says to Viktor, that he seems like he's the only person who seems happy with his lot in life, and Viktor replies that its because he's lived long enough for everyone to leave him alone.
You've probably heard this before: it's about the journey, not the destination. I'm sorry that the magical maguffin of V living was- to a lot of people, just a bait and switch, for someone else's schemes. But, in truth, Alt didn't lie, she just had her own agency. She destroyed Mikoshi without a second thought. V was tricked, and screwed over, again, and again, and again. First by Arasaka, then by Dex, Then the Voodoo Boys, Then Johnny, Then Alt. It's just business.
I feel like we're meant to care about Arasaka and affecting it or taking it down, like we may have died but it was worth it since at least we punched Arasaka in the face as we went but...I DGAF about Arasaka, they didn't achieve their goal if that's what they were going for. Are we supposed to empathize so much with Johnny that we want to carry out his 50 year old revenge? Are we supposed to blame them for Jackie's death? Our personal revenge against Dex was immediately stolen and we're just led around by different people saying go here, do this and you'll live but nope.