[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Willowhugger]

I love how the Jefferson's penthouse music is the piano music from The Evil Within's safe room. A game about being connected to a machine messing with your brain and you never know what's real.

I don't see the part where V succeeds at any mission and gets a cure.
I don't see any part where the tarot cards say exactly what will happen down to perfect detail and get proven right.
Show me this please.

What are you asking regarding the Tarot cards. Are you suggesting they're not right in-universe?

 

[fridgeband]

"Probably" is actually "maybe". In both the Nomads ending and The V is a Legend ending you are chasing the "hope" of a cure. Those endings provide hope. They do not provide proof of an actual cure.

I also don't really consider V joining the other collections of data beyond the black wall as immortality. If you do, that's fine, but Alt says multiple times across many conversations that she is not Alt Cunningham anymore. Just as V would not be V anymore after time spent in cyberspace. More than that, it's not a satisfying ending to many players. Otherwise we wouldn't have hundreds of pages of this, right?

I know right?

I love how the Jefferson's penthouse music is the piano music from The Evil Within's safe room. A game about being connected to a machine messing with your brain and you never know what's real.



What are you asking regarding the Tarot cards. Are you suggesting they're not right in-universe?

Why can't you show me those tarot cards in the game that show what you say they are saying down to perfect flawless infallible detail?

 

[WingedArchon]

I mean if you really want your character to die, just move the primary objective from survival to anything else. like, honour. saving your family. revenge. anything but the only thing which is EXPLICITLY unachievable.

To enter in some levity in these dark times, I found a much quicker way for that (at least being a Nomad, but I'm sure the outer beginnings offer a similar option I'm sure...)

Drive to the radio tower, climb on it and jump, shut down you game rig/PS or what have you and done, lol.

I like Johnny but let's not act like he has the moral upper hand on V, who outside of minor player's choices is just trying to stay afloat in a shitty city. Becoming a legend was Jackie's dream, my V was just along for the ride and I had the option to say it.
They have both selfless and selfish motives, but I'd say keeping your own body is a pretty understandable selfish motive, especially at the beginning when Johnny is just an aggressive stranger.

I'll base my comment on what V says... Twice I think: "Its my body, always has been"
Just because that tosser got in my head because of the relic doesn't make it his, even if dna-change.
Nothing selfish about that if you ask me.. its rightful.

I think the amazing voiceover plays a big part, too. I have never got as invested in "silent protagonists" as I do with fully-voiced ones, they just don't cut as deep.

There are some exceptions, but yes. And the voice acting was done well. Not like with FO4 where the tone was a fucked up.

I'm team Panam, myself, but I do feel like every other romance option really got the short end of the stick. I sincerely hope they get more love and attention down the road.

I didn't mind Judy too much.
And if its all the same just allow us to go on gangbang spree with the rest of Aldecaldos its a base Nomad rule: share with the clan
Otherwise giv me Claire and Carol. I even make it easy for them because ofhaving such similar names!

Johnny's biochip is a prototype and was specifically designed to take over the host after death. Now the question is, we have the blueprints and the engineers, why can't that condition be recreated for V? Too expensive? Arasaka doesn't care that much?

That entire questioning with Hellman also never truly felt right to me. He kept saying stuff couldn't be done but with every word he sputtered it felt he was looking at me like labrat that just had to follow through this path of disaster to feed his curiousity if I would indeed become someone else. It never felt like was actually helpfull or even sincere. That was just another '+1' for me where I thought in the end we COULD save ourselves from the relic with our lives intact. And I was curious about the relic 1.0 never being mentioned ever.

After completing my own few endings, and reading about some others here, I have to agree it all seems rather pointless with all endings pretty much resulting in your demise, no option to live on without Johnny and even worse no option to figure out a way to save both yourself and Johnny and live in one body together without killing each other..

Because this should an RPG, for that option to exist: ok.
But personally I considered Johnnys story to end at Mikoshi, no matter what.
He's had his ride in my head, Now bugger off.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

I was deeply touched by ending and dont want any changes. I personally don't think that every RPG needs an option for happy end.

The ending (any of them) is bitter and sad, but that is what makes it remarkable, that makes you realize, how much you love these characters. Another happy ending will only add Cyberpunk to the endless collection of games that we forget immediately after completing.
No, in terms of the story and its ending, everything is in place.

Yeah. And the endings are remarkably dumb as well.

For me, the endings added cyberpunk to the list of whannabe games that try too hard to be different, by sacrificing the plot and logic for a cheap emotional response.

As a person who actually reads stories, the endings and the plotholes created in the epilogue were a slap to the face.
Basics of writing and story telling ignored.

 

[WingedArchon]

okay so lets take some choice based endings to this thread:
1. Save yourself from dying and leave NC with Judy(no nomads included, because we talk about choices yet)
2. Save yourself from dying and join Panam and her clan.
2b. Save yourself from dying, join Panam but also bring Judy
3. Save yourself from dying and become the Legend you dreamed of owning the Afterlife.(optional live with River or Kerry)
4. Sign with the devil and become Arasakas Adam Smasher 2.0
5. Go to Cyberspace with Alt.
6. commit suicide if you feel that´s what you want.
7. merge your mind to live with Johnny still in your head.
8. die a heroes death by taking down Arasaka with you (Johnny would love that one)
9. Sign with the devil but betray them and seize Arasaka for yourself (Yorinobu has fled NC, Board is dead)


I´m open for more.

Added 1 new one and a variant we already have. I'm intrigued to see which more we devise.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Btw. I want to point out that overly dark and fatalistic endings just for the sake of being miserable, are basically the extreme opposite of the happy ending.

Both are on the opposite side of the spectrum and in fact equally disgusting. One is happy for thee sake of being happy and the other one is miserable for the sake of being miserable.

Especially the Arasaka upload epilogue is missing any kind of nuance and walking the green milento your execution is downright miserable.

Cyberpunk can't have a happy ending, because either V or Johnny have to bite the dust in order for the other one to live.
A happy ending is a closed ending where all characters problems are resolved in a positive way.

I can't see than in any of the endings.

 

[Barsenthor]

That is not the first opinion I see when people say Witcher's story is better. I love Witcher series more than Cyberpunk since I find gameplay and side quests in Witcher more satisfying, but main story... seriously, the main story of W3 is just primitive.
Defeat bad guys, save the world. How can it possibly be compared with so much more complicated and dramatic plot of Cyberpunk.

Ok, but then the TW3 is a success and very few people were/are saying that it’s ending is dump.
Here you have a game loaded with bugs and glitches where even 24 threads on cpu with RTX3080 won’t save many people from disappointment.

You don’t go with this kind of game for the prize of most bizarre/sad ending.

Those kinds of games are like locomotive for the series and studios in general.
They are to invoke positive emotions in order to keep audience/customers interested and eager for more.
There are some works that says that studios can afford to make a flop each 5-6 games in order to stay afloat.

Here you are force to play a sore loser, who fails on everything. Not many people will find this enticing, many will find this opposite, they won’t go back to play the game, won’t by DLC that are today important aspect of games portfolio.
Some of them won’t be interested in anything that studio will have to offer in the future, because why they should? Their previous game was hyped to be the “Second coming of Jesus” yet it ends up to be a tremendous let down.

 

[SaulTuk]

okay so lets take some choice based endings to this thread:
1. Save yourself from dying and leave NC with Judy(no nomads included, because we talk about choices yet)
2. Save yourself from dying and join Panam and her clan.
3. Save yourself from dying and become the Legend you dreamed of owning the Afterlife.(optional live with River or Kerry)
4. Sign with the devil and become Arasakas Adam Smasher 2.0
5. Go to Cyberspace with Alt.
6. commit suicide if you feel that´s what you want.
7. merge your mind to live with Johnny still in your head.
8. die a heroes death by taking down Arasaka with you(Johnny would love that one)


I´m open for more.

I would rather make 7 a sub-option of all the other variants, except 4. And 8, in my opinion, is too epic for the Cyberpunk's vision of Pondsmith. The rest is fine, i guess.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Ok, but then the TW3 is a success and very few people were/are saying that it’s ending is dump.
Here you have a game loaded with bugs and glitches where even 24 threads on cpu with RTX3080 won’t save many people from disappointment.

You don’t go with this kind of game for the prize of most bizarre/sad ending.

Those kinds of games are like locomotive for the series and studios in general.
They are to invoke positive emotions in order to keep audience/customers interested and eager for more.
There are some works that says that studios can afford to make a flop each 5-6 games in order to stay afloat.

Here you are force to play a sore loser, who fails on everything. Not many people will find this enticing, many will find this opposite, they won’t go back to play the game, won’t by DLC that are today important aspect of games portfolio.
Some of them won’t be interested in anything that studio will have to offer in the future, because why they should? Their previous game was hyped to be the “Second coming of Jesus” yet it ends up to be a tremendous let down.

Especially when you take the launch state of tw3 into account.

It was technically not really the best when is came out...

Still less complains.

 

[Barsenthor]

Btw. I want to point out that overly dark and fatalistic endings just for the sake of being miserable, are basically the extreme opposite of the happy ending.

Both are on the opposite side of the spectrum and in fact equally disgusting. One is happy for thee sake of being happy and the other one is miserable for the sake of being miserable.

Especially the Arasaka upload epilogue is missing any kind of nuance and walking the green milento your execution is downright miserable.

Cyberpunk can't have a happy ending, because either V or Johnny have to bite the dust in order for the other one to live.
A happy ending is a closed ending where all characters problems are resolved in a positive way.

I can't see than in any of the endings.

They are fatalistic on every level.

Becoming a legend that is also an objective of this game it is said to be a name of the drink in some club that will be busted in max few decades like Atlanta ends up.
The rest will be forgotten, look that even news about Tower bombimg was just about some random Terrorist.

This game is fatalistic for the sake of be fatalistic.

 

[SaulTuk]

They are fatalistic on every level.

Becoming a legend that is also an objective of this game it is said to be a name of the drink in some club that will be busted in max few decades like Atlanta ends up.
The rest will be forgotten, look that even news about Tower bombimg was just about some random Terrorist.

This game is fatalistic for the sake of be fatalistic.

I for myself has not any complaints about short glory of NC legends. I think it's valid sign of total consumerism of CP's society - people always strive for more, new, shiny labels, things, drinks and legends. I have no problem with holowness and emptines of edgerunner's glory.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

I for myself has not any complaints about short glory of NC legends. I think it's valid sign of total consumerism of CP's society - people always strive for more, new, shiny labels, things, drinks and legends. I have no problem with holowness and emptines of edgerunner's glory.

It's just an expression of "style over substance".

 

[DieSaxon]

I didn't know what to expect from the endings, I ended up getting invested in the story from the beginning so I didn't even stop to analyze or imagine what end the journey would take, let alone take a critical look at the plot.
I have mixed feelings about the endings, in the general context, I think its fulfills its proposal, but in the smaller context, in some details, they make little sense.
Every ending has script conveniences that distort the logic of the rest of the proposal, maybe it's nitpicking, but for me, it affected the verisimilitude of the facts.

They could have worked more on these endings and epilogues, happy ending is not synonymous of a good ending, I think people should seek a good ending, well written, well tied, with logic, with verisimilitude, with minimal loose ends and few script conveniences and not a "happy ending".
I also don't want to be a hypocrite, I would also like to have a happy ending, but if it is bad and badly written, what good is it to have one?

If you think about The Witcher 3, we have a ''bad ending'' which is a ambiguous ending, I liked, It is not my favorite, but it is good, reminds me of the books and Cyberpunk 2077 endings has a similar approach, It’s not good, but it’s not that bad.

 

[Barsenthor]

I for myself has not any complaints about short glory of NC legends. I think it's valid sign of total consumerism of CP's society - people always strive for more, new, shiny labels, things, drinks and legends. I have no problem with holowness and emptines of edgerunner's glory.

But if this was in-game joke ok, (like a t-shirt in GTA Vice City for completing 100% of the game). I get the concept of it and consumerism in general. I can even get the message that this was superficial to go for something like becoming a legend, but then the story is like this in every aspect.
It’s writhing off characters left and right (Jacki, Evelyn)
Endings are all bad, forced with plot cancer to show that this whole story is about futility.

I don’t buy this, won’t buy this. There are just so many games that done this properly, so why any player should bother?

Post automatically merged: Jan 8, 2021

I didn't know what to expect from the endings, I ended up getting invested in the story from the beginning so I didn't even stop to analyze or imagine what end the journey would take, let alone take a critical look at the plot.
I have mixed feelings about the endings, in the general context, I think its fulfills its proposal, but in the smaller context, in some details, they make little sense.
Every ending has script conveniences that distort the logic of the rest of the proposal, maybe it's nitpicking, but for me, it affected the verisimilitude of the facts.

They could have worked more on these endings and epilogues, happy ending is not synonymous of a good ending, I think people should seek a good ending, well written, well tied, with logic, with verisimilitude, with minimal loose ends and few script conveniences and not a "happy ending".
I also don't want to be a hypocrite, I would also like to have a happy ending, but if it is bad and badly written, what good is it to have one?

If you think about The Witcher 3, we have a ''bad ending'' which is a ambiguous ending, I liked, It is not my favorite, but it is good, reminds me of the books and Cyberpunk 2077 endings has a similar approach, It’s not good, but it’s not that bad.

For me bittersweet ending that make sense and is logical lore-wise would be great.

Yet none of this endings are like this and if this is not enough that make this game completely no-replayable.
Both because you can just choose a different ending on RGB phone at the end plus the fact that all endings ends up in the same dumpsink/aka with plot cancer that will kill main character in the end.

On the other hand it doesn’t care about MC, since in proper story his/her death is always as a mean to and end. Here it’s the end itself, that just distort proper storytelling.

 

[SaulTuk]

But if this was in-game joke ok, (like a t-shirt in GTA Vice City for completing 100% of the game). I get the concept of it and consumerism in general. I can even get the message that this was superficial to go for something like becoming a legend, but then the story is like this in every aspect.
It’s writhing off characters left and right (Jacki, Evelyn)
Endings are all bad, forced with plot cancer to show that this whole story is about futility.

I don’t buy this, won’t buy this. There are just so many games that done this properly, so why any player should bother?

I agree about endings, you know that. At leas V should be able to save himself, and his friends/beloved. Or sacrifice them for quickly fading glory, wealth and status, if players feels that way.
We haven't even been given the freedom to roleplay utter sociopath and bastard with no friends at all, so in the end no one will be upset by V's death. And now the game like "Choose where, and whim whom, you will die, and who you will upset by it. Oh, and don't you dare to commit suicide, because it that case voicmails will tear your hurt. Or give body to Johnny, because this coward will not even tell everyone about what happened, and voicemail will tear your hurt".

 

[Eakani]

"Probably" is actually "maybe". In both the Nomads ending and The V is a Legend ending you are chasing the "hope" of a cure. Those endings provide hope. They do not provide proof of an actual cure.

I also don't really consider V joining the other collections of data beyond the black wall as immortality. If you do, that's fine, but Alt says multiple times across many conversations that she is not Alt Cunningham anymore. Just as V would not be V anymore after time spent in cyberspace. More than that, it's not a satisfying ending to many players. Otherwise we wouldn't have hundreds of pages of this, right?

I wouldn't put the "V is NC Legend" to the hope list.

The whole ending is more about, that V accepted the situation and is just looking to leave earth in the most epic way possible. Not really caring about a cure.

Contradicting to that is the single moment when V cares about Mr. Blues Eyes side of the bargain, a promise.

Just to tell Mr Blue Eyes later in the shuttle, that the time is long gone to gain something, now, there nothing to lose? That makes no sense if you ask me.

 

[acakomandos]

Apparently you can kill Adam Smasher after Heist misson lol.

edit: its meaningless

 

[Barsenthor]

Those endings would definitely fit some low budget existential game or novel.
If this was a script for next Avengers movie it would end in trash with writer on the street
.
And CP77 is an Avengers like game in terms of scope, budget and plans.

 

[tRYSIS3]

To everyone complaining about the Panam ending not being 'happy' enough I highly encourage you to go back, reload the savefile and do that ending all over again. But this time, pay attention to all the little details. There are many details littered throughout hinting why this is a better ending than you think (e.g. Tarots) but I'll give you a less obvious example. When you're at the tent where the Basilisk is there's a data pad called 'The Iliad'.

Here's what it says and i've added my interpretation in brackets:

• "If I abide here and war about the city of Trojans [Night City], then lost is my home [Mother Nature with the Aldecaldos], but my renown shall be imperishable [maintain a strong reputation in Night City - this is basically the Johnny ending].
• "But if I return home [Mother Nature] to my dear native land [the great outdoors] then lost is my glorious renown [NC reputation], yet shall my life long endure, neither shall the doom of death come soon upon me."

This poem in my opinion is proof that the Aldecaldos ending is happy and that V will probably be cured in an expansion. Especially when it corroborates with what Misty says.

Just because an ending isn't happy at face value doesn't make it automatically bad! You need to pay attention to the little details.

It seems you missed the Mike Pondsmith quotes I posted recently, where he talks about the ending of the movie Bladerunner. If you look at it, you can draw the comparison with Cyberpunk, Deckard (V), escapes LA (NC), with his love interest Rachel (Panam). In case you weren't aware, that ending was final and had no continuation.

I don't care about a future expansion or little "hints", I don't want this ending to be happy either, quite the opposite actually, it's a cheap excuse at a "happy" ending (same for NC Legend). Also, if you need to "go back and look" then you are admitting that the ending is objectively BAD.

If someone watches a movie at a theater and thinks that it had a bad ending, they don't go back to watch again. If you need an explanation to change your mind then the ending was badly done from the beginning. We are also ignoring the fact that those hints don't even provide any conclusive evidence for the existence of a cure/expansion, making the argument even more flawed.

 

[SaulTuk]

it's a cheap excuse at a "happy" ending

And why is that? V get no glory, no wealth, he must run Night City, never to return, and live the rest of his life with techno-barbarians among dust and sand. This is a fine good ending by me, freedom and brotherhood at the price of glory, wealth and civilized life you, obviously, cheerish so high)