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[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

+

Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?

  • Yes, I miss happy endings.

    Votes: 410 45.0%
  • No, I am content with the endings currently offered.

    Votes: 84 9.2%
  • I think that the option should be available for those who want it.

    Votes: 268 29.4%
  • It’s more complicated than that.

    Votes: 149 16.4%

  • Total voters
    911
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Nekatinyz

Nekatinyz

Forum regular
#1,401
Dec 16, 2020
fatal1ty3910 said:
Everyone going with 'you don't seem to understand the cyberpunk genre'... What are you implying? That the cyberpunk genre automatically translates to doom, gloom, certain defeat? As someone actually very familiar with the cyberpunk genre, it seems that everyone here who thinks they 'understand' it, actually don't.

Cyberpunk as a genre has a few themes that it relies on, which are how tech and AI change society, loss of humanity, the abuse of nature and people by the ultra rich, corporations becoming the de-facto governments, class division to the point where there are only ultra poor and ultra rich people. Drugs, sex, identity and loss of it through technology. All recurring themes in the cyberpunk genre. It generally paints a picture of a bleak, dark neo-tech/neo-corporate world, where hopes and ideals of utopias are something long gone and there is no more 'saving the world'. This also automatically implies there are no more 'heroes', the all-important person who will fix everything. This is why cyberpunk tells 'small', personal stories. A good, simple example is that, overall, cyberpunk is the exact opposite of classic fantasy like Lord of the Rings, and the catchphrase used in marketing describes it perfectly - 'you can't save the world, you can only save yourself'. Yet it ends up being just 'you can't save yourself, ever'. If you assume this was an artistic decision, it means that CDPR deliberately cherry-picked only the darkest themes from the genre on purpose, and by extension, this means that the story was always pre-written, and you were meant to not have a choice, because the choice was made by the writes. This is what everyone's issue is - if they wanted to tell that specific story, and let people just experience it, fine. But then why repeat, year after year, that we would have deep, meaningful choices that would drastically impact the ending? A predefined story and deep, complex choices are almost complete opposites. People were promised the latter - an RPG, and supposedly a ground-breaking one.

Assuming that cyberpunk always means 'no way out, no way to win, you're always screwed' is plain wrong and a misunderstanding of the genre. Cyberpunk is NOT doomer culture. Cyberpunk DOES allow for small, personal victories, usually this is clearly the best you can hope for, but it is not straight up impossible. That's the whole point - there is still small hope here and there. That is what makes those small personal victories all the more meaningful, because a brutal, merciless world that is out to get you is the context. Nobody every said that the world always crushes you, though. That is not an intrinsic part of the genre. Applying the theme of 'absolute hopelessness/guaranteed defeat' to this genre is a mischaracterization and misunderstanding of it. If that were true, there would practically be no point in telling any stories in that setting, as any character, their struggles, hopes and dreams, would always be pointless and would have no value.

So trying to justify the looming theme of doom and gloom that spans across all the endings, in varying degrees, by saying 'this is cyberpunk, you just don't understand it' is just weird. Yes, this is cyberpunk, and that's why there should be a 'happy ending' in some form, perhaps along the line of 'you fought the world, and you lost, but at least you got out alive, which was the best you could hope for anyway'. Cyberpunk, as a genre, allows that. So denying this option to players, as it's quite obvious by the reactions of people, is wrong, considering that this was an RPG. We don't want a guaranteed happy ending, we want it to just be an option. Otherwise, just call it Doomer 2077 and be done with it.
Click to expand...
Man you are so damt right, ih games like that the first ending we got 80% bad or neutralx but not good, we cab like them or not, but or mind and heart want a good end, to finish beautifull game on beatufull end, thats the reason we olay games again and againg, people, if game is rpg with more then 1 end it should be 1 or more happy end
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Anrix1, Qaddis, fatal1ty3910 and 3 others
Dragokungfu

Dragokungfu

Fresh user
#1,402
Dec 16, 2020
worldcompany said:
All the seven ends are really dark and sad. Like really. we need a happy ending.
Click to expand...
Lol
 
neocyril

neocyril

Forum regular
#1,403
Dec 16, 2020
Holly shit this game and its story.

People are pissed, people are not satisfied.

All of the things that people have mentioned are valid. (well not all, but more than not)

I get it. And to people trying to go around what I said I get you too. I am not saying that cyberpunk is a all gloom and doom, only that it exists and is part of it. Fatality made an excellent post explaining all the intricate and interesting aspects of a cyberpunk setting. And I agree.

It is just funny to me that people are surprised by the fact that there was a possibility that CDPR might take that route.

Now fatality in regards to the movie Upgrade and the similarities to the game.

Yes it is a bleak setting and a dark ending, the same one we have with this messy game. But like you said, the storyteller chose to tell that story and so did CDPR.
They chose to fully go with the darkens of cyberpunk and it was their choice. ( I, like many other people disagree with their choice but that's why we are having this discussion now. All I'm trying to say is that just because someone doesn't like it doesn't mean that the said story does not have it's place in the lore/mythos)

But the problem arises with the fact that despite CDPR choosing to tell this story(to share their vision of it), they chose to do so in an RPG. And well, RPGs are all about player choice and for that I think they screwed up royally. But again that is a whole new discussion about player agency and RPGs in general
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Anrix1, Julo67, Beldamon and 1 other person
Kikinho

Kikinho

Senior user
#1,404
Dec 16, 2020
TheSaintOne said:
You mean like a grown up? It's a mature game for mature people about mature topics.
Click to expand...
No, I mean people who just consume a media without investing any kind emotional or even mental connection, even tho he medium was clearly written to provoke emotions.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Master_Plot
Retro-_-

Retro-_-

Forum regular
#1,405
Dec 16, 2020
Nekatinyz said:
Man you are so damt right, ih games like that the first ending we got 80% bad or neutralx but not good, we cab like them or not, but or mind and heart want a good end, to finish beautifull game on beatufull end, thats the reason we olay games again and againg, people, if game is rpg with more then 1 end it should be 1 or more happy end
Click to expand...
Key word there is RPG. Odd for a large AAA RPG to tunnel vision you gameplay as your progress and have a main story the length of a DLC
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Julo67 and Beldamon
Q

Qaddis

Forum regular
#1,406
Dec 16, 2020
AKANexus said:
Please be more careful with your wording, you are bordering insult...
Click to expand...
Hey, you should be more careful, he gonna hit you with his age and matureness.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Cologan
Nekatinyz

Nekatinyz

Forum regular
#1,407
Dec 16, 2020
Retro-_- said:
Well said, that's pretty much what I feel is holding the game back as it stands. If they were to implement what you have commented there I could happily play through and wait for any DLCs or large updates to offer solutions to the endings. They would still mean very little but we could at least continue to experience NC.
Click to expand...
I think we would not give hints to save the character if it had no further plans, just would be a shame if everything will be the same, V will live dalle in the story dlc or something it clears up, I'm 90% sure, but if it again will not influence our novels, such as VI remains alive after the RAID on the space station, but Panama or Judy still leave it, what is the sense to pass their quests?
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: MandyZGaming
Kikinho

Kikinho

Senior user
#1,408
Dec 16, 2020
neocyril said:
Holly shit this game and its story.

People are pissed, people are not satisfied.

All of the things that people have mentioned are valid. (well not all, but more than not)

I get it. And to people trying to go around what I said I get you too. I am not saying that cyberpunk is a all gloom and doom, only that it exists and is part of it. Fatality made an excellent post explaining all the intricate and interesting aspects of a cyberpunk setting. And I agree.

It is just funny to me that people are surprised by the fact that there was a possibility that CDPR might take that route.

Now fatality in regards to the movie Upgrade and the similarities to the game.

Yes it is a bleak setting and a dark ending, the same one we have with this messy game. But like you said, the storyteller chose to tell that story and so did CDPR.
They chose to fully go with the darkens of cyberpunk and it was their choice. ( I like many of other people disagree with their choice but that's why we are having this discussion now. All I'm trying to say is that just because someone doesn't like it doesn't mean that the said story does not have it's place in the lore/mythos)

But the problem arises with the fact that despite CDPR choosing to tell this story(to share their vision of it), they chose to do so in an RPG. And well, RPGs are all about player choice and for that I think they screwed up royally. But again that is a whole new discussion about player agency and RPGs as a general
Click to expand...
What the topic is mostly about imho is that the endings kill the joy for many people (including myself) in trying to replay the game. We simply don't wanna experience the same heartache any more times. It's fine if the game would be a medium that i was meant to consume once and not touch it for a long while. But it's an open world game that is meant to get DLCs and multiplayer, promoting replayability. And that has been taken away from people who do really care for the player character.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Anrix1, Beldamon, MissNet and 1 other person
Simuxas

Simuxas

Senior user
#1,409
Dec 16, 2020
neocyril said:
Holly shit this game and its story.

People are pissed, people are not satisfied.

All of the things that people have mentioned are valid. (well not all, but more than not)

I get it. And to people trying to go around what I said I get you too. I am not saying that cyberpunk is a all gloom and doom, only that it exists and is part of it. Fatality made an excellent post explaining all the intricate and interesting aspects of a cyberpunk setting. And I agree.

It is just funny to me that people are surprised by the fact that there was a possibility that CDPR might take that route.

Now fatality in regards to the movie Upgrade and the similarities to the game.

Yes it is a bleak setting and a dark ending, the same one we have with this messy game. But like you said, the storyteller chose to tell that story and so did CDPR.
They chose to fully go with the darkens of cyberpunk and it was their choice. ( I like many of other people disagree with their choice but that's why we are having this discussion now. All I'm trying to say is that just because someone doesn't like it doesn't mean that the said story does not have it's place in the lore/mythos)

But the problem arises with the fact that despite CDPR choosing to tell this story(to share their vision of it), they chose to do so in an RPG. And well, RPGs are all about player choice and for that I think they screwed up royally. But again that is a whole new discussion about player agency and RPGs as a general
Click to expand...
Thing is, in rail road games like CoD you hardly invest yourself with characters or story, because mostly it is just pure action fun. In RPG on the other hand, you connect with the character you choose to be, because they are your choices of the story and having an end that does not follow the RPG route is just horrible. There are choices, yes, but if they are all leading to the same goal with tiny differences, what is the point then?
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Beldamon and Master_Plot
Enerccio

Enerccio

Fresh user
#1,410
Dec 16, 2020
Nikola_Nesic said:
Again rare and hard, happy ending should not be impossible, in all Shadowrun Dragonfall and Hong Kong you have happy ending, Ghost in the Shell still have good ending, saying that happy ending is rare in that settings should not mean impossible.
Click to expand...
THIS should have been the bittersweet thing about ending, but now V dies and his copy dies as well because sad ending.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Julo67
MandyZGaming

MandyZGaming

Forum regular
#1,411
Dec 16, 2020
neocyril said:
Holly shit this game and its story.

People are pissed, people are not satisfied.

All of the things that people have mentioned are valid. (well not all, but more than not)

I get it. And to people trying to go around what I said I get you too. I am not saying that cyberpunk is a all gloom and doom, only that it exists and is part of it. Fatality made an excellent post explaining all the intricate and interesting aspects of a cyberpunk setting. And I agree.

It is just funny to me that people are surprised by the fact that there was a possibility that CDPR might take that route.

Now fatality in regards to the movie Upgrade and the similarities to the game.

Yes it is a bleak setting and a dark ending, the same one we have with this messy game. But like you said, the storyteller chose to tell that story and so did CDPR.
They chose to fully go with the darkens of cyberpunk and it was their choice. ( I, like many other people disagree with their choice but that's why we are having this discussion now. All I'm trying to say is that just because someone doesn't like it doesn't mean that the said story does not have it's place in the lore/mythos)

But the problem arises with the fact that despite CDPR choosing to tell this story(to share their vision of it), they chose to do so in an RPG. And well, RPGs are all about player choice and for that I think they screwed up royally. But again that is a whole new discussion about player agency and RPGs in general
Click to expand...
I made a list of points earlier, that for me would bring the joy back of playing again. Sure there people who might be ok with as it is, but a lot more aren´t. They can still have their 7 dark endings, but could at least add 1 or 2 good ones.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Anrix1, Beldamon and Master_Plot
T

TheSaintOne

Fresh user
#1,412
Dec 16, 2020
Kikinho said:
No, I mean people who just consume a media without investing any kind emotional or even mental connection, even tho he medium was clearly written to provoke emotions.
Click to expand...
I'm just as gamer as you are. I am invested emotionally. But it doesnt mean i must go to forums to complain to authors about THEIR choice. Will you be satisfied if after the complaining they add another ending thats super happy? That's just artificial. It's stupid. It's "Eat your vegetables - But i want a candy maaaam" kinda thing.
 
neocyril

neocyril

Forum regular
#1,413
Dec 16, 2020
Kikinho said:
What the topic is mostly about imho is that the endings kill the joy for many people (including myself) in trying to replay the game. We simply don't wanna experience the same heartache any more times. It's fine if the game would be a medium that i was meant to consume once and not touch it for a long while. But it's an open world game that is meant to get DLCs and multiplayer, promoting replayability. And that has been taken away from people who do really care for the player character.
Click to expand...
And I do agree with that, that's why I wrote what I wrote about RPGs and CDPR fucking up. It is just that I personally am more interested in stories as a whole and not just if it makes me feel good because I hade a power fantasy. (but that is just me, so don't take it as an insult or an attempt to say that the way you are experiencing these games is wrong)
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Anrix1
Kikinho

Kikinho

Senior user
#1,414
Dec 16, 2020
TheSaintOne said:
I'm just as gamer as you are. I am invested emotionally. But it doesnt mean i must go to forums to complain to authors about THEIR choice. Will you be satisfied if after the complaining they add another ending thats super happy? That's just artificial. It's stupid. It's "Eat your vegetables - But i want a candy maaaam" kinda thing.
Click to expand...
No because that is not what this thread is about? Do we only see in black and white my friend? If you read the whole thread, which I suggest since you decided to give your input, you would know exactly what people are asking here.
 
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Reactions: Anrix1, Beldamon, Cologan and 2 others
MandyZGaming

MandyZGaming

Forum regular
#1,415
Dec 16, 2020
Nekatinyz said:
I think we would not give hints to save the character if it had no further plans, just would be a shame if everything will be the same, V will live dalle in the story dlc or something it clears up, I'm 90% sure, but if it again will not influence our novels, such as VI remains alive after the RAID on the space station, but Panama or Judy still leave it, what is the sense to pass their quests?
Click to expand...
Same with River for the female players.
 
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Reactions: Nekatinyz
Buckadoz

Buckadoz

Forum regular
#1,416
Dec 16, 2020
neocyril said:
It is just funny to me that people are surprised by the fact that there was a possibility that CDPR might take that route.
Click to expand...
I didn't expect an ending where you save yourself, and Johnny, and take down Arasaka, and none of your friends die.

I also didn't expect a game where I think the least worst ending is shooting yourself in the fucking head.

Are those fair expectations?
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Anrix1, MissNet and Cologan
Nekatinyz

Nekatinyz

Forum regular
#1,417
Dec 16, 2020
I think cd will see and hear us, we are closing eyes on bugs and so much deleted content(F console gamers)
Game has a beautifull main plot and everything most players want is to continue V and his friends(not only friends) story, we want at least 1 happy end, hard to achieve, but 1 at least
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: crawfordman, Anrix1 and Julo67
neocyril

neocyril

Forum regular
#1,418
Dec 16, 2020
MandyZGaming said:
I made a list of points earlier, that for me would bring the joy back of playing again. Sure there people who might be ok with as it is, but a lot more aren´t. They can still have their 7 dark endings, but could at least add 1 or 2 good ones.
Click to expand...
And again I do agree with them adding more endings that make people happy
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Anrix1
F

fatal1ty3910

Fresh user
#1,419
Dec 16, 2020
TheSaintOne said:
I'm just as gamer as you are. I am invested emotionally. But it doesnt mean i must go to forums to complain to authors about THEIR choice. Will you be satisfied if after the complaining they add another ending thats super happy? That's just artificial. It's stupid. It's "Eat your vegetables - But i want a candy maaaam" kinda thing.
Click to expand...
'What I think and do is what you must think and do, because I am right'. Very mature way of thinking there. Guess what, we are all paying customers, and we can do what we want as such, including being unhappy with the game, and voicing our complaints on forums. Who are you to forbid us, or to say we are 'immature'? Calm your edginess down, my guy.
 
  • RED Point
Reactions: Anrix1, Alenheim, Beldamon and 3 others
Linkinbnu

Linkinbnu

Fresh user
#1,420
Dec 16, 2020
TheSaintOne said:
I'm just as gamer as you are. I am invested emotionally. But it doesnt mean i must go to forums to complain to authors about THEIR choice. Will you be satisfied if after the complaining they add another ending thats super happy? That's just artificial. It's stupid. It's "Eat your vegetables - But i want a candy maaaam" kinda thing.
Click to expand...
How dare you post on a forum to say your concerns about a product you bought. "Buy vegetables, get candy" its correct, or "Buy RPG, get no choices" its also correct.
 
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Reactions: Anrix1, Beldamon, Cologan and 4 others
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