[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[GottMonsanto]

Really depressed about the endings too, I went with the nomands ending (panam love interest) as my canon ending, but there are several things that I don't like about it.

First, I get that the game portrays the city as evil basically, all the shit that is going on, fucked up sidestories, no one can be trusted etc. and family is the important thing, since you lose yours at the beginning of the game and with the nomad ending find a new one, BUT as a city person myself I'd rather stay in the city with panam, instead of going mad max in the badlands.

And second, V dying withing 6 months is just plain BS. If the biochip changes your DNA it would also mean that a new biochip could reverse that and change it back to V's DNA. Also if your immune system attacks those changed neurons it would also mean that they would attack the neurons if johnny takes over, he would be dead within months as well. And you can't fuckin tell me that with all that cyberware being basically normal, that there wouldn't be any immune system suppressants that could stop your neurons from being killed, hell we have stuff like that today for transplantations.

Also to add one last thing, the people saying that V is only a copy after Alt does her magic are not completely right, V is still alive in the body, Alt creates an engram and puts it back in, merging real dying V with copy V, but can't wrap my head around why she didn't just create a new biochip version V with nanites that fix your body right up again.

So yeah, not satisfied with the endings at all, I really hope there will be DLC set AFTER the main story where you figure this shit out. I don't have anything against bad endings per se but this just doesn't make sense, and all the time invested into my character feels pointless.

 

[BGM45]

Because spoiler alert we will all die at the end anyway. So accept that and fight for the life you want to have, instead of second guessing every decision you ever made. Even if you lose in the end, well your life had meaning which is more than what can be said about corposuits.

you would be right if we were talking about RDR2, not about an rpg that boasted how much player's choice matters. I don't second-guess my decisions because I didn't make them - the writers did. so no, I'm not going to accept the fact that my V has to die anyway. I didn't roleplay her like that, she's not that person.

also, you know, these corpo-suits are real (in-game) people too, with their own aspirations, dreams, troubles, loves and families. don't just write them off. I would rather be one of them than what the marketing and the game in certain scenarios suggests is THE right path for V. be forgettable and live a calm boring life, thank you very much.

 

[Buckadoz]

Mid-game story after the heist but before the point of no return?
Maybe, but the chip is a 2-4 week ticking clock and far more pressing than Geralt's urgency to find Ciri. It wouldn't surprise me if they just went this route anyway and just ignored the rather inevitable chip dilemma.

The game itself already doesn't take the idea that V is on a clock very seriously in side missions, so I entirely expect all DLCs to be inconsequential side stories since I sincerely doubt they'll add anything that has to cohere with the "different endings" (they're all V dying in Soulkiller, sorry) and I also sincerely doubt they'll add anything that will lead to a new ending.

Worst case scenario, all the DLC are mini-stories with different protagonists that don't involve V at all, a la Far Cry 5.

 

[LordSareth]

I'm pretty much the same as you guys. Played the game, enjoyed the interaction, characters and ended the game on very depressing tone. Learned then that all of endings of my V are just the end of the road. I get the people saying that is the purpose of the setting, dark, gloomy world. The problem for me that is inconsistent with the world that was showed in the game. There is quest about cyberpsychosis, you are asked to do not kill them, so they can get help, maybe even return to their lives. Or the quest about giving justice to people that were harmed by corpos and their laws. Quest about Panam and helping her rejoin the family,their values and style of life. There were many more instances of such stories. They were hopefull, showing that even in that grim dark world there are rays of light. But to me, any of that was denied to my V. That in every posibility you have, your fate is sealed and you cannot change that. Whats more, other characters get their happy endigs, johny taking your body and living a full life, alt or arasaka getting what she wanted. Where is that grim and dark here? Some will say that this is mature and that's how life is. But do i want that to be reminded that my choices don't matter? Because to me for now this is the punchline of Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[BGM45]

The game itself already doesn't take the idea that V is on a clock very seriously in side missions

yeah, even in how often the game itself suggests you wait. wait for Clair. wait for River. wait for Rogue to call back. wait for this, wait for that, it's not like you're dying, right?

 

[amsquared]

Just out of curiosity, how many people here think the Major was alive?

She was a 100% synthetic being - having no original organic parts left - only the Ghost in the Shell.

Isn't that the major theme of all cyberpunk? What does it mean to be alive?

I wanted to add my voice here, and I think this right here is the most important point. Especially the last part.

I see a lot of discussion here about "souls" and how Engram V doesn't have one, but I don't see a word about what a "soul" actually is. I've not seen a single thing in the game that explains it. IRL, we know souls are not a physical organ in the human body. They are a mental and social construct, used to explain both mental illnesses and societal problems, usually poorly because someone who commits murder without remorse isn't "soulless" but rather a psychopath. We have names for these things and understand a lot of the brain chemistry and other factors that cause them. IRL "souls" are an outdated concept that's much like god - a pre-science way to explain the unknown.

(Read into the above whatever you want about me. I could not care less.)

So my counterpoint is thus: Engram V and Original V are exactly the same, as long as Engram V is created by Alt.

Johnny's Engram is not Johnny. This is because his engram was made with the original, 2032, prototype version of Soulkiller. As the scientist you kidnap (idr his name right now) says, Soulkiller has gone through multiple revisions and evolved. When it was used on Johnny, it was practically brand new, and it did not capture a perfect copy of his phyche. Thus, the Engram Johnny we're dealing with is not truly him. It's a flawed copy, and if you allow it to take V's body, it will still not be him because it's still based upon that flawed copy.

It is not clear if Arasaka has evolved Soulkiller to the point where it can capture a perfect copy of a person's psyche. It appears yes, but we can't be sure. Alt, on the other hand, is a nearly omniscient AI, and has complete control over her domain. As long as V is inside that domain, and barring any issues with the physical hardware in meatspace, the engram that Alt makes of V is a copy, but it is a perfect copy. An exact one to one replica of V's entire psyche, from one end to the other.

Thus, the best endings, that we should have but don't, are quite simple:

1) The existing ending where Alt makes the engram of V, but without the 6 month death clock. This is the actual problem with this ending, and it makes absolutely no sense. Either the Soulkiller program works, or it doesn't. Either it can colonize a human head with nanites and take it over, it it can't. If it can, it does not make any sense that V dies 6 months later, unless it's from catching another bullet. A shot to the heart would be poetic and I could be perfectly content with that - she dies, but without throwing away every choice we made throughout the game. In short, the problem with this ending is the 6 month brain cancer clock that has no reason to exist. Just make Engram V go out in a blaze of glory. A simple 2-sentence change to this ending fixes everything.

2) Alternatively - and this one is a little off the wall, I know, but hear me out - would be an ending where we manage to track down Johnny's hand. As in his literal metal hand. After grafting this onto V's arm, the Johnny Engram gets tricked into believing that it has completed the process of colonizing its host. V is left in her current state - half organic brain, half Johnny Engram, but alive and no longer living on a death clock. It still can't be removed, and she still sees Johnny, but as long as V has developed a friendly relationship with him, they can live in harmony for whatever V's regular lifespan would be. I made this ending up, of course, but it seems to me to be the easiest to implement for CDPR. All they have to do is simply ADD this as a new ending in a patch or DLC, without altering the existing game. This would, in effect, cancel any main quests currently in progress and just allow you to play the game. Plus you get another neato souvineer of Johnny's.

Anyhow, just my thoughts. I'm like everyone else. I've spent YEARS playing games like this, and I'm never content with a dead protagonist. After the absolute s**tshow that 2020 has been, I expected this to be the reward for surviving this horrendous year. Instead I've got worse depression than I've had in all year.

And I bought the game on Steam, so with 43.2 hours logged, I couldn't get a refund if I wanted to. I'd say I should've used GOG but I don't feel like giving CDPR more money after this. They can absolutely redeem themselves, and it won't even take much work if they're crafty, but this is not okay. It's not just not a "good" ending, it's not a "good enough" ending either.

EDIT: And if you don't vote "I think the option should be available..." in the poll, you're a selfish prick. You should ALWAYS want their to be more player choice. Whether YOU would choose it or not is irrelevant. The right answer is always, always more options, not less. (Neither should you want CDPR to make every ending a happy one, but I think that's obvious.)

 

[Retro-_-]

So with everything out on the table... what direction can CDPR take with the expansion DLC with respect to the story and the endings as they are?

Can they do a DLC revolving around the V and Jackie before the heist happens?
Sort of? You'd be restricted to Watson for the entire thing unless they open up the game a bit sooner. It would also be strange because most side quests do not start until after the Heist.

Mid-game story after the heist but before the point of no return?
Maybe, but the chip is a 2-4 week ticking clock and far more pressing than Geralt's urgency to find Ciri. It wouldn't surprise me if they just went this route anyway and just ignored the rather inevitable chip dilemma.

Post-game story continuing and concluding V's story, for better or for worse.
Very likely with how they have mentioned understanding player's desires to continue the story and also hear from other recurring characters (River, Panam, Kerry, Judy, etc).

So how do you continue this story from where it leaves off? The Silverhand and Suicide endings are obviously not popular or viable (the latter for obvious reasons). The former, well, he has no connection to any of the characters (besides Rogue and even she's weirded out by Silverhand's new host).

Of the three arcs, Arizona, Space, and Mikoshi, how do you bring these divergent arcs back to NC assuming they don't take us some place new entirely?

Arizona: After a a string of bad luck and dead ends, V returns to where it all started in hopes of survival.

Space: Following the casino heist, V's deteriorating health in the face of death spurs him into action to find the cure.

Mikoshi: Arasaka, facing a host of difficulties, the Mikoshi project failing, and with no strong chess pieces on the board (Adam Smasher), prematurely bring V back into their body where he must continue to find a cure elsewhere.

More ideas and it's good to see everyone has a fresh input for what could be, if CDPR choose continuation. The Aldecakdos/Nomads move around a lot anyway so that wouldn't be too far removed.

 

[Simuxas]

So with everything out on the table... what direction can CDPR take with the expansion DLC with respect to the story and the endings as they are?

Can they do a DLC revolving around the V and Jackie before the heist happens?
Sort of? You'd be restricted to Watson for the entire thing unless they open up the game a bit sooner. It would also be strange because most side quests do not start until after the Heist.

Mid-game story after the heist but before the point of no return?
Maybe, but the chip is a 2-4 week ticking clock and far more pressing than Geralt's urgency to find Ciri. It wouldn't surprise me if they just went this route anyway and just ignored the rather inevitable chip dilemma.

Post-game story continuing and concluding V's story, for better or for worse.
Very likely with how they have mentioned understanding player's desires to continue the story and also hear from other recurring characters (River, Panam, Kerry, Judy, etc).

So how do you continue this story from where it leaves off? The Silverhand and Suicide endings are obviously not popular or viable (the latter for obvious reasons). The former, well, he has no connection to any of the characters (besides Rogue and even she's weirded out by Silverhand's new host).

Of the three arcs, Arizona, Space, and Mikoshi, how do you bring these divergent arcs back to NC assuming they don't take us some place new entirely?

Arizona: After a a string of bad luck and dead ends, V returns to where it all started in hopes of survival.

Space: Following the casino heist, V's deteriorating health in the face of death spurs him into action to find the cure.

Mikoshi: Arasaka, facing a host of difficulties, the Mikoshi project failing, and with no strong chess pieces on the board (Adam Smasher), prematurely bring V back into their body where he must continue to find a cure elsewhere.

Most likely solution, and easiest one would be a mid game side quests that gives us additional endings where V survives and continues be a merc in the city.

Post game ending expansions are really big can of worms there, because you would have to focus on all of them and not one, because focusing on only one, would make other ones pretty invalid and would probably anger edgy people who prefers killing V.

Before the chop story is plausable, but that would be heavilly depressing, since we know how the story is gonna end. And additional branch of act 1, where you don't put a chip in, well that is basically a new main story there, so that is extremely unlikely.

The thing is, with removing the chip and putting an engram from Mikoshi into V with compatible body , or using a soulkiller to do the same, are pretty much same things. It is really hard to speculate current ending extensions, because of rpg element.

If you put engram from Mikoshi into another body, yes that could be a decent DLC, but we come to the same problem as Panam ending, is it really you who is inside. But if they would extend it to a point where you decide yourself, is it really V who is inside or just impulses and memories.

Pretty much same goes to Panam ending.

 

[Kikinho]

I'm pretty much the same as you guys. Played the game, enjoyed the interaction, characters and ended the game on very depressing tone. Learned then that all of endings of my V are just the end of the road. I get the people saying that is the purpose of the setting, dark, gloomy world. The problem for me that is inconsistent with the world that was showed in the game. There is quest about cyberpsychosis, you are asked to do not kill them, so they can get help, maybe even return to their lives. Or the quest about giving justice to people that were harmed by corpos and their laws. Quest about Panam and helping her rejoin the family,their values and style of life. There were many more instances of such stories. They were hopefull, showing that even in that grim dark world there are rays of light. But to me, any of that was denied to my V. That in every posibility you have, your fate is sealed and you cannot change that. Whats more, other characters get their happy endigs, johny taking your body and living a full life, alt or arasaka getting what she wanted. Where is that grim and dark here? Some will say that this is mature and that's how life is. But do i want that to be reminded that my choices don't matter? Because to me for now this is the punchline of Cyberpunk 2077.

Someone summed up the nature of cyberpunk tropes very well earlier. I'll try to find and link it. You are absolutely right and most people will agree with you here.

 

[Simuxas]

I wanted to add my voice here, and I think this right here is the most important point. Especially the last part.

I see a lot of discussion here about "souls" and how Engram V doesn't have one, but I don't see a word about what a "soul" actually is. I've not seen a single thing in the game that explains it. IRL, we know souls are not a physical organ in the human body. They are a mental and social construct, used to explain both mental illnesses and societal problems, usually poorly because someone who commits murder without remorse isn't "soulless" but rather a psychopath. We have names for these things and understand a lot of the brain chemistry and other factors that cause them. IRL "souls" are an outdated concept that's much like god - a pre-science way to explain the unknown.

(Read into the above whatever you want about me. I could not care less.)

So my counterpoint is thus: Engram V and Original V are exactly the same, as long as Engram V is created by Alt.

Johnny's Engram is not Johnny. This is because his engram was made with the original, 2032, prototype version of Soulkiller. As the scientist you kidnap (idr his name right now) says, Soulkiller has gone through multiple revisions and evolved. When it was used on Johnny, it was practically brand new, and it did not capture a perfect copy of his phyche. Thus, the Engram Johnny we're dealing with is not truly him. It's a flawed copy, and if you allow it to take V's body, it will still not be him because it's still based upon that flawed copy.

It is not clear if Arasaka has evolved Soulkiller to the point where it can capture a perfect copy of a person's psyche. It appears yes, but we can't be sure. Alt, on the other hand, is a nearly omniscient AI, and has complete control over her domain. As long as V is inside that domain, and barring any issues with the physical hardware in meatspace, the engram that Alt makes of V is a copy, but it is a perfect copy. An exact one to one replica of V's entire psyche, from one end to the other.

Thus, the best endings, that we should have but don't, are quite simple:

1) The existing ending where Alt makes the engram of V, but without the 6 month death clock. This is the actual problem with this ending, and it makes absolutely no sense. Either the Soulkiller program works, or it doesn't. Either it can colonize a human head with nanites and take it over, it it can't. If it can, it does not make any sense that V dies 6 months later, unless it's from catching another bullet. A shot to the heart would be poetic and I could be perfectly content with that - she dies, but without throwing away every choice we made throughout the game. In short, the problem with this ending is the 6 month brain cancer clock that has no reason to exist. Just make Engram V go out in a blaze of glory. A simple 2-sentence change to this ending fixes everything.

2) Alternatively - and this one is a little off the wall, I know, but hear me out - would be an ending where we manage to track down Johnny's hand. As in his literal metal hand. After grafting this onto V's arm, the Johnny Engram gets tricked into believing that it has completed the process of colonizing its host. V is left in her current state - half organic brain, half Johnny Engram, but alive and no longer living on a death clock. It still can't be removed, and she still sees Johnny, but as long as V has developed a friendly relationship with him, they can live in harmony for whatever V's regular lifespan would be. I made this ending up, of course, but it seems to me to be the easiest to implement for CDPR. All they have to do is simply ADD this as a new ending in a patch or DLC, without altering the existing game. This would, in effect, cancel any main quests currently in progress and just allow you to play the game. Plus you get another neato souvineer of Johnny's.

Anyhow, just my thoughts. I'm like everyone else. I've spent YEARS playing games like this, and I'm never content with a dead protagonist. After the absolute s**tshow that 2020 has been, I expected this to be the reward for surviving this horrendous year. Instead I've got worse depression than I've had in all year.

And I bought the game on Steam, so with 43.2 hours logged, I couldn't get a refund if I wanted to. I'd say I should've used GOG but I don't feel like giving CDPR more money after this. They can absolutely redeem themselves, and it won't even take much work if they're crafty, but this is not okay. It's not just not a "good" ending, it's not a "good enough" ending either.

That is a really good insight and an idea for a good Johnny and V relationship. And yes that 6 month to die and saying soulkiller kills you was really bad move by them. It literally just pushes you towards " V is dead no matter what".

 

[Buckadoz]

I wanted to add my voice here, and I think this right here is the most important point. Especially the last part.

I see a lot of discussion here about "souls" and how Engram V doesn't have one, but I don't see a word about what a "soul" actually is. I've not seen a single thing in the game that explains it. IRL, we know souls are not a physical organ in the human body. They are a mental and social construct, used to explain both mental illnesses and societal problems, usually poorly because someone who commits murder without remorse isn't "soulless" but rather a psychopath. We have names for these things and understand a lot of the brain chemistry and other factors that cause them. IRL "souls" are an outdated concept that's much like god - a pre-science way to explain the unknown.

(Read into the above whatever you want about me. I could not care less.)

So my counterpoint is thus: Engram V and Original V are exactly the same, as long as Engram V is created by Alt.

Johnny's Engram is not Johnny. This is because his engram was made with the original, 2032, prototype version of Soulkiller. As the scientist you kidnap (idr his name right now) says, Soulkiller has gone through multiple revisions and evolved. When it was used on Johnny, it was practically brand new, and it did not capture a perfect copy of his phyche. Thus, the Engram Johnny we're dealing with is not truly him. It's a flawed copy, and if you allow it to take V's body, it will still not be him because it's still based upon that flawed copy.

It is not clear if Arasaka has evolved Soulkiller to the point where it can capture a perfect copy of a person's psyche. It appears yes, but we can't be sure. Alt, on the other hand, is a nearly omniscient AI, and has complete control over her domain. As long as V is inside that domain, and barring any issues with the physical hardware in meatspace, the engram that Alt makes of V is a copy, but it is a perfect copy. An exact one to one replica of V's entire psyche, from one end to the other.

I've been avoiding using the game's use of "soul" for this very reason. Instead I like to reference Alt's line in cyberspace, paraphrasing on memory:

"Your consciousness, your neural engrams, will be recorded as data. Everything else will cease to exist."

In this scenario, what's "the rest"? What's left besides that personal sense of the self? The copy Alt makes will be fully conscious and have V's memory. Externally, it will be indistinguishable from V.

But it won't be V. The V you've played the entire game, that's the "everything else" that dies when Soulkiller hits.

 

[kaz_ds]

So many new voices here that perfectly encapsulate what we've been trying to say here. Really well written boys and girls!

Those that say it should be grim and dark because its Cyberpunk obviously didn't play the same game we got, there is so much hope in there, especially brought on by V's hand -- the whole game is a counter argument to that opinion.

 

[Simuxas]

I would say there should be an ending where you Side with Yorinobu Arasaka.

Let's say in some sidequests you make correct choices and right before you make your final choice on what to do, you get a call from Yorinobu, telling you that he can actually save you but you will need to help him take down Arasaka empire.

Okay the saving part, Arasaka empire is the biggest in the world, they have Mikoshi program and all that soulcrap that they used on Johnny and even improved it. I'm sure every huge corporation empire would make a safeguard to those kind of technologies in case soemthing goes bad, like nanites go haywire (like Johnnys engram is replacing V with nanites) etc.
So that would be option out of nowhere, and probably nobody would even think about joining him because he just tells you to come so he can help without explaining what he is planing to do. That would be the most wild option, because everybody would oppose that, even Johnny. But at the end V would live, Johnny is gone and you take down Arasaka tower in Night City because maybe cuz of Johnny or not, up to player . And then you go back into the Night City continue being a merc.

 

[QbertTK]

Just beat the game today.

Honestly...

I almost cried at a number of deaths in this game, but I generally held it together.

What finally made me cry? Finding out that no matter what I did, I died anyway; sooner or later.

Yeah yeah I get it, everyone's said that probably a hundred times now in this thread, but I just had to make this account to express my thoughts, it's what this space is for anyway.

I'll probably botch my explanation but here it goes:


I started this game with a positive attitude. I ignored the bugs, the poor reviews, I immersed myself deep in the story, the environment. I felt like I was playing a legitimate Cyberpunk game that hit so many high notes thematically and gameplay wise I was just floored at every turn. Little bugs here and there? No problem, nothing gamebreaking, easily ignored. It's clear the devs cared a LOT about the game with the level of depth we get in so much. So many choices to make, so many paths to follow, so many options and methods of execution at our disposal. It was clearly a passion project, it felt like more of an RPG than Fallout 4 ever came close to, and that was billed as a legit RPG.

C2077 felt more like New Vegas in that gameplay respect, but more importantly it felt like a proper Cyberpunk game. Though, the way the story shifted from "Let's make it big!" to "F***, I'm dying!" happened fast, and suddenly the gameplay energy from a player perspective went from "I love this city!" to "I need to survive." Everything we do more or less was in the name of survival, some side jobs notwithstanding. But more or less it was building contacts, gaining power, tackling any/every lead we could, all to survive that chip.

After 40+ hours of gameplay and finally hitting the ending? I felt... empty, felt like I chose a bad end and looked online only to find they all ended poorly for V. My character saw her romance partner again in the epilogue, that was nice, and honestly I could take V being a "copy" of herself as bleak as that is, but to die anyway...? So many people have given amazing suggestions for ways the game could have realistically ended, but for every single choice to end in "Die now or die later" when the game from the start was setup to be a story of survival? ...I wish there was an option to never insert that chip.

Someone else said it perfectly...

2020 was a very depressing year, we really didn't need more depression. I sure didn't, anyway.
People play games for escapism, the game was setup to be an immersive, living breathing world, people don't want that to just 'stop' and be for naught; for everything to not even matter. In the way it was handled, it just... disappointed me.

It really soured the game for me and I just can't even bring myself to make another character knowing I'd just be slogging my way to an inescapable death. We did so much to find ourselves attached, to fight tooth and nail and risk everything to survive, only for it to not matter? I understand bad ends, I understand grim writing, but for every single ending to result in "V dies" is just heartbreaking.

I waited 8 years for this game, finally getting to play it felt I was a kid taking a trip to a theme park. Beating the game felt like I watched my best friend die at that themepark. Now I never want to visit that themepark again, because I know those memories will just flood back. I'd never be able to enjoy it the same.

I don't even want a refund, I'm glad I got to play the game, but gods... It just hurts that the world CDPR worked so hard to create, the character we built to love, was all torn away from us in such a depressing way.

I loved every second of the game, but my motivation to do anything further in it died with V.

CDPR needs to see this. This is EXACTLY how I feel as well. Witcher 3 I can replay infinite times and keep coming back to. This game is just depressing and I feel sad playing it again. It bothers me how meaningless any of the endings are more than the terrible launch of the game bugs me. I guess I'll leave my own feelings here as well in case it helps them to add non-depressing content to the game.

It's one thing to have technical problems, it's another to completely disrespect peoples effort in your game and add even more depression to a shit year. I've thought more about my mortality this year because of the virus than any other year and now it's being shoved down my throat in a video game I've waited 7 years for.

The real ending may as well have been blowing our brains out in our apartment when Johnny told us to. At least then I wouldn't have spent 50 hours wasting V's life trying to survive imminent death. I don't mind endings like this, but it feels like the story is just railroading us into dying and none of the choices we choose make a difference.

This isn't even something I'd pursue a refund over or write a bad review for the game. All I can really do is sit back and be sad. That's not what I play an RPG game to experience. I stay awake at night with my eyes wide open having an existential crisis when I DON'T play video games. Now that horrible feeling has made it into video games. There's no optimism left in life. No reason to fight for anything it's all meaningless.

TLDR; This game makes me want to never play a CDPR title again. I know my life is meaningless and short, I don't need your game to tell that to me.

 

[Simuxas]

CDPR needs to see this. This is EXACTLY how I feel as well. Witcher 3 I can replay infinite times and keep coming back to. This game is just depressing and I feel sad playing it again. It bothers me how meaningless any of the endings are more than the terrible launch of the game bugs me. I guess I'll leave my own feelings here as well in case it helps them to add non-depressing content to the game.

It's one thing to have technical problems, it's another to completely disrespect peoples effort in your game and add even more depression to a shit year. I've thought more about my mortality this year because of the virus than any other year and now it's being shoved down my throat in a video game I've waited 7 years for.

The real ending may as well have been blowing our brains out in our apartment when Johnny told us to. At least then I wouldn't have spent 50 hours wasting V's life trying to survive imminent death. I don't mind endings like this, but it feels like the story is just railroading us into dying and none of the choices we choose make a difference.

This isn't even something I'd pursue a refund over or write a bad review for the game. All I can really do is sit back and be sad. That's not what I play an RPG game to experience. I stay awake at night with my eyes wide open having an existential crisis when I DON'T play video games. Now that horrible feeling has made it into video games. There's no optimism left in life. No reason to fight for anything it's all meaningless.

TLDR; This game makes me want to never play a CDPR title again. I know my life is meaningless and short, I don't need your game to tell that to me.

Welcome to the club pall.

 

[BGM45]

2) Alternatively - and this one is a little off the wall, I know, but hear me out - would be an ending where we manage to track down Johnny's hand. As in his literal metal hand. After grafting this onto V's arm, the Johnny Engram gets tricked into believing that it has completed the process of colonizing its host.

so... Revolver Ocelot, but for reals?

on a more serious note, thank you for your post. I think the problem here is that we are left to discuss it here, like that, on a forum, because the game was so ambiguous with it. I'm not saying the game should chew our food for us, but questions of faith and soul are way too complicated and contiguous to be treated the way they currently are in the game. you've stated your outlook on this, and it's valid. however, a devoted Christian or any other believer would look at it from their point of view of a soul being the most sacred and important thing.

I brought it up before, but in Joshua's questline you can state that your V believes in God and maybe even knows several prayers. imagine that V hearing Alt telling them their soul will be destroyed. it's worse than hell. it means no meeting your loved ones, no forgiveness. you might not understand it, I might not understand it, but this belief is just as valid as yours.

now, I do believe in souls, but from a more Buddhist perspective. to me, a soul is pure data, a code being compiled again and again with different scenarios and modifiers for the universe to experience stuff. it might sound bizarre, but Alan Watts says it the best:

“We do not "come into" this world; we come out of it, as leaves from a tree. As the ocean "waves," the universe "peoples."

so, what would Soulkiller mean for me? if my soul, my original code, is being destroyed yet another one, identical, is created, is it still the same me, the same leaf on the tree? or is it a budding sort of thing, where my new soul is basically my progeny? it's kind of touched upon in the Delamain quest, but never explored deeper, I feel, and this is my main position in this thread: if they continue with one of the ctrl-V endings, they should explore these themes as deep as possible.

 

[MeinChurro]

You're basically saying the story was too damn short and cut abruptly. That's one of the biggest issues here

Not only is the story apparently too short, the false sense of urgency really puts the player in a kind of rush to get to the end. The pacing is pretty bad.

 

[fatal1ty3910]

Actually, after literally thinking about this for hours, I've come to realize that the game really doesn't make clear the whole 'Soulkiller is a copy, the original is dead' thing. This is what Alt says, but why do we take it as gospel? How come Saburo Arisaka doesn't seem to be encountering this problem? What happened to Alt seems to be something different, as she got 'Soulkiller'-ed as a punishment and her psyche was not given the option to return to her body. Instead, she escaped beyond the Blackwall, where she changed because she merged with rogue, wild AIs.

Everyone keeps going with the CTRL+C -> CTRL+V analogy. But what if it's actually CTRL+X -> CTRL+V. Hear me out please.
Everyone assumes that a copy is made of V. For a moment, two instances of V exist in that case. The original is still there in some sort of coma and the copy overwrites the original, essentially where the 'SOUL KILLER' aspect comes in. This is never actually clearly stated, as far as I'm aware.

What if instead, something else happens - the neural activity in your brain, being electrical impulses travelling inside your brain, instead get REDIRECTED to the chip, meaning that it is actually YOU who LEAVES your body, and you are not being copied at all, you get moved. Then Johnny's 'contamination' gets removed, and the still original you gets put back in your body. This also means that Johnny is the real Johnny, but him saying that the 'real' Johnny died 50 years ago is not a literal statement, and more him struggling with the fact he is now a digital being, as well as the fact that his personality and mentality changes because of interacting with V.

This seems to make a lot more sense, considering that it's never explained why Soulkiller actually kills your physical body. Does it cause cardiac arrest? Does it just fry your brain with electricity? The explanation where it literally moves your neural activity to a different place and your body experiences brain death actually fits. So perhaps it's not at all a case of COPY -> PASTE, but instead it's CUT -> PASTE, to the same 'folder'.

What do you guys think?

 

[MeinChurro]

That didn't age well....



Neither that...

And this is why CDPR deserves all the flak, and negative reviews they get. It's why I wrote a negative review. I might enjoy the game (except for the endings), but this game was falsely advertised. Plain and simple. It was said to be something that it is not. Whether it became too much of an undertaking, or they ran out of time and had to cut together what they had, they should have been honest to their players. I think this will irreparably damage their reputation.

 

[kaz_ds]

CDPR needs to see this. This is EXACTLY how I feel as well. Witcher 3 I can replay infinite times and keep coming back to. This game is just depressing and I feel sad playing it again. It bothers me how meaningless any of the endings are more than the terrible launch of the game bugs me. I guess I'll leave my own feelings here as well in case it helps them to add non-depressing content to the game.

It's one thing to have technical problems, it's another to completely disrespect peoples effort in your game and add even more depression to a shit year. I've thought more about my mortality this year because of the virus than any other year and now it's being shoved down my throat in a video game I've waited 7 years for.

The real ending may as well have been blowing our brains out in our apartment when Johnny told us to. At least then I wouldn't have spent 50 hours wasting V's life trying to survive imminent death. I don't mind endings like this, but it feels like the story is just railroading us into dying and none of the choices we choose make a difference.

This isn't even something I'd pursue a refund over or write a bad review for the game. All I can really do is sit back and be sad. That's not what I play an RPG game to experience. I stay awake at night with my eyes wide open having an existential crisis when I DON'T play video games. Now that horrible feeling has made it into video games. There's no optimism left in life. No reason to fight for anything it's all meaningless.

TLDR; This game makes me want to never play a CDPR title again. I know my life is meaningless and short, I don't need your game to tell that to me.

This is how most of us feel in here, let's try to keep pushing on and making this thread bigger and our voices louder.
Maybe there will be a good end to all of this.