[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Ayinde_Palmer]

The Relic is using data that's on the engram (the neural network, i.e., memories and personality) to brainwash (overwrite) V's consciousness into believing they are Johnny.

And it doesn't make a new consciousness because consciousness is strictly a local, tied to one's unique physical brain, perception of reality. So in order to make one, the Relic would need to create a new biological brain, which it clearly doesn't.

Johnny is not a separate entity. He is just a part of V's brain and consciousness. When they both talk, they are not actually talking -it's just V's brain trying to make sense of having two personalities. This further proves the point when Hellman says: "What's it like to have two personalities?" and "You're not actually "talking," but yes, I understand what you mean."

She appears to be conscious, but she isn't, though. Well, maybe, somehow in her own way, but definitely not in a way a physical human brain can be.

they imply the relic is actually creating a new "brain" vik says its destroying his brain cells, and built new brain matter where damage was. and hellman says his brain can no longer survive without the relics neurology (when you meet him at Kang tao)

I had assumed the relic was a more simple system, but apparently the nanites are creating neural tissue and taking over. The chip is a biochip BTW, not just a piece of tech.

So, if relic 2.0 is creating a local brain to match the engram, would you consider that to be a new consciousness

 

[OG_VELI]

and hellman says his brain can no longer survive without the relics neurology (when you meet him at Kang tao)

Yes because it deteriorated V's neural network so much that the brain cannot function without the Relic. The Relic is the only thing that's keeping V alive. That's why you can't remove it.

So, if relic 2.0 is creating a local brain to match the engram, would you consider that to be a new consciousness

What the hell, man.

The Relic uses data (engrams) to brainwash people, nothing else. It cannot and does not create a local brain because that's beyond what the technology of this universe is capable of (it's clearly stated throughout the game that the brain is the only part of the body that cannot be replaced by cyberware).

 

[theskyfarer]

Panam gets shot when she fixes the roof turret and at first it seems bad, but she just shrugs it off and it's never mentioned again.

I loved Jackie's character and his death was one of those plot points I feel that are essential for this game to have immersive motives to even play it (fulfilling your promises to him on his death), but a lot of that was jarringly ruined for me when Panam got blasted through basically the same place Jackie did and survived with scars after some hypos (same thing I had on me alongside Jackie). I felt very real fear for her when that happened BECAUSE of Jackie and the conversation we have with her about him, but it gets brushed off immensely quick. It was that moment where I truly felt like they should've left Jackie's death an optional turn of events or at the very bare minimum, padded the game with a few hours of more content with him instead of that montage.

If it had been optional, I felt like they could've still done the Silverhand plot but through Jackie as the conduit, from not having removed the relic, and have us watch Jackie's personality constantly be switched on and off with Johnny as we fight to help cure him while trying to become legendary. All the side quests involving Johnny's presence as a narrator would be barely changed. The only cons of this would be less Keanu (unless they mind-linked us with Jackie or he was able to 'project' him visually), the Rogue quests would need reworking to justify your presence, and it runs the risk of having people that disliked Silverhand for always being there dislike Jackie for the same reasons.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Yes because it deteriorated V's neural network so much that the brain cannot function without the Relic. The Relic is the only thing that's keeping V alive. That's why you can't remove it.

What the hell, man.

The Relic uses data (engrams) to brainwash people, nothing else. It cannot and does not create a local brain because that's beyond what the technology of this universe is capable of (it's clearly stated throughout the game that the brain is the only part of the body that cannot be replaced by cyberware).

I'm just going by what vik, and Hellman said, also considering Alt and takamura.

This is also relic 2.0 this is cutting edge tech, its not normal.

its definitely doing more than brainwashing, Takamura says they can't clone you, because your bodies DNA no longer matches.

vik says, "the nannites of the chip started fixing the damage.." how did I survive a shot to the head? was the question.
"from the biochip's perspective, your braincells are a tumor that needs to be scooped out.."
cant we take the chip out? "...out of the question. You'd die immediately."


Hellman "the biochip is what's unique, not the engram"
"your neural network is degraded. it can no longer function independently.."

Alt
"DNA reconfiguration by the relic has progressed too far..".
"The body's immune system is attacking its own neurons"

Takamurq
"your phenotype thanks to the chip is unique" assume they meant genotype, since phenotype is observable traits.


This is the only tech that can apparently recreate brain tissue/neurology to match the engram's original consciousness, or perhaps a similar enough one, regardless it definitely does more than just brain washing. And its not strictly cyberware, it would probably be some form of bioware, its a biochip.

 

[OG_VELI]

I'm just going by what vik, and Hellman said, also considering Alt and takamura.

This is also relic 2.0 this is cutting edge tech, its not normal.

its definitely doing more than brainwashing, Takamura says they can't clone you, because your bodies DNA no longer matches.

vik says, "the nannites of the chip started fixing the damage.." how did I survive a shot to the head? was the question.
"from the biochip's perspective, your braincells are a tumor that needs to be scooped out.."
cant we take the chip out? "...out of the question. You'd die immediately."


Hellman "the biochip is what's unique, not the engram"
"your neural network is degraded. it can no longer function independently.."

Alt
"DNA reconfiguration by the relic has progressed too far..".
"The body's immune system is attacking its own neurons"

Takamurq
"your phenotype thanks to the chip is unique" assume they meant genotype, since phenotype is observable traits.


This is the only tech that can apparently recreate brain tissue/neurology to match the engram's original consciousness, or perhaps a similar enough one, regardless it definitely does more than just brain washing. And its not strictly cyberware, it would probably be some form of bioware, its a biochip.

What you just wrote, this whole DNA/body rejection conundrum is literally only brought up in the endings, which makes it a plot hole that I talked about in the previous two pages.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

What you just wrote, this whole DNA/body rejection conundrum is literally only brought up in the endings, which makes it a plot hole that I talked about in the previous two pages.

the vik quote is the first thing he tells you about whats going on. Keep in mind he cut the occiptal bone, he has literally seen V's brain.
also my helman quote is at the Kang tao part.

the vik quote tells you what the biochip is doing, destroying and creating brain tissue. The created stuff is for the Johnny engram, the destroyed stuff is Vs brain cells. Vs brain needs to use the Johnny parts to survive, thats what both vik and bellman said before the endings.

The DNA part, is apparently related to the how it goes about doing it. They don't fully explain it, but if you consider that they are creating new neural tissue to match the engram on the chip, Its not as surprising that new DNA may be a part of the process.

 

[OG_VELI]

the vik quote tells you what the biochip is doing, destroying and creating brain tissue. The created stuff is for the Johnny engram, the destroyed stuff is Vs brain cells. Vs brain needs to use the Johnny parts to survive, thats what both vik and bellman said before the endings.

"From the biochip's perspective, your brain cells are a tumor that needs to be scooped out, while your body's an empty shell to hold the construct." - doesn't imply anything about "destroying and creating brain tissue." It's only saying that parts of V's brain are tumors that are being slowly overwritten by the Relic so that it can force Johnny's personality over V's.

"That biochip is what's unique, not Silverhand's engram." - this is completely irrelevant. This biochip is unique only because it's a prototype, a one-time thing. Engrams were already a thing before creating the 2.0 version.

"Your neural network has completely deteriorated. It can no longer function independently of the chip." - it merely states that V can't survive without the chip because the personality overwriting process progressed too far.

Again, he mentions the neural network. The same thing is mentioned by Alt, which is the same thing that Soulkiller extracts (personality and memories).

The DNA part, is apparently related to the how it goes about doing it. They don't fully explain it, but if you consider that they are creating new neural tissue to match the engram on the chip, Its not as surprising that new DNA may be a part of the process.

The Relic only rewires the neural network. DNA is not necessary for the Relic to rewire a neural network.

And if DNA is a factor, then why didn't V's immune system reject Johnny's engram in the first place? Because it's a plot hole and is only ever mentioned in the endings.

 

[CasperTheGhost]

i just woke up so i'm nowhere near full capacity. however, it seems like we are starting to make up our own head canon based on information that hasn't actually been expressed to us and are trying to excuse the writing in the endings with it.

 

[Yllana_Ardais]

i just woke up so i'm nowhere near full capacity. however, it seems like we are starting to make up our own head canon based on information that hasn't actually been expressed to us and are trying to excuse the writing in the endings with it.

we need new info, otherwise our brains will start eating themselves.

 

[LordSareth]

we need new info, otherwise our brains will start eating themselves.

And we start seeing johnyys? Please god noooo

 

[Groddon]

Done the ending The Devil today.
Why it was far more satisfying than the others?
Probably because the DNA story is not mentioned, or for this scene:

Post automatically merged: Feb 11, 2021

"From the biochip's perspective, your brain cells are a tumor that needs to be scooped out, while your body's an empty shell to hold the construct." - doesn't imply anything about "destroying and creating brain tissue." It's only saying that parts of V's brain are tumors that are being slowly overwritten by the Relic so that it can force Johnny's personality over V's.

Take the exact minute for the line, he say that "the chip is rewiring neural pathways, building neural structure and doing away with the old."

 

[Barsenthor]

i just woke up so i'm nowhere near full capacity. however, it seems like we are starting to make up our own head canon based on information that hasn't actually been expressed to us and are trying to excuse the writing in the endings with it.

For me we passed this point when the searching went to Tarot cards meaning in the sci-fi universe and cure in the TV advert.
So long time ago.

And no matter how elaborated will be DLC with whole cure, blackjack and hookers, it won't change the fact that MQ has very little to know hard arguments to support this.

Personally i doubt that writers felt so insecure about the story and lore that they figured out that only way to glue people to this franchise is through cliffhanger.

And also any DLC that will deal with searching for the cure is a pass for me.

Sorry played +100h, found non and I'm not interested in paying 20 euro as a "insert coin to play" next search for a cure adventure with story that so far showed that failure is the only option.

For me this game with its downer's story arc is dead as V chances for survival. Resetting it with new char or altenrative timeline sure, tho i will first watch the spoilers and than weight should i even bother with DLC, game or anything that has CDPR logo on it.

 

[OG_VELI]

Well, he provided me with that one exact quote, not the entire explanation, you know.

"It's the biochip rewiring your neural pathways, building new neural structures, doing away with the old." - basically means that V's neural pathways are being rewired with Johnny's engrammatic personality *data*, which is stored on the engram. Vik even states that the Relic started uploading *data* into V's head as if it was a dead brain.

 

[GloriousRuse]

I might be uttering blasphemy here, but perhaps we can accept that things exceed precise knowns as far as the chip?

1) It's a prototype-not-entirely-understood-by-it's-makers-chip-of-questionable-consciosness-transfer-with-one-of-the-earliest-soulkilled-on-it chip.

2) It gets damaged during the heist, then it gets jacked into Jackie, then into V, then V gets shot in the head.

3) V comes to in a landfill, not a happy medical center, and gets "treated" by Takemura taking him on a gunfight car ride before being dragged to a street ripper doc who freely admits he really doesn't know entirely what's going on.

4) The "recovery" consists of running around getting in gunfights while the Johnny continues to overwrite the V for...days, weeks?

5) Then either the VDBs or Netwatch load V up something fierce, and he might get fried AGAIN. Either way, he immediately interacts with Alt who uses the Johnny portion of the mind to do things...things like frying the VDBs or dodging netwatch...a process we know from the Star ending is not gentle on the ole' mind.

6) V goes and pops a bunch of street pills, gets in a car crash, invokes a bunch of strong Johnny memories.

7) Alt interacts with V and reality, AGAIN, unless you Devil out.

8) V, struggling and bleeding from a final effort, get's Soulkilled and/or has the ongoing pysche ripped apart (either by Alt or by Saka docs).

Maybe, just maybe, there are complications and issues beyond the handful of data points on "the chip works like this!" we have?

 

[Barsenthor]

For me biochip works as a classic McGuffin, it is just a plot device, to push story forward with rather no meaning of it's own what is a main characteristic of the McGuffin.
This is why game never described it, how it works, how this is possible to map the whole brain, all synapses connections that goes in dozens and there are like milion neurons in the brain so you can get the idea of numbers that this chip must contains. Also the fact how they discoverd how memories are made, how they work, how they are being "translated" onto "brain functioning", and the list of this problems can go on for some time.

There is practically nothing in game to says how it works, and this is practically a magic on this point. Cyberware, sure there can something with connection with the nerves, game/lore is even describing this. But biochip?

So that's a McGuffin. The next think to discuss could be Tessarect.

 

[KonstantingG]

Spoilers I guess.

Why is every ending for this game so depressing? Why is there no 'good' ending? I honestly enjoyed the game up until you had to make a choice on how it ends, and honestly neither of the outcomes is satisfactory to me.

Your character basically has no way to survive the ending, except -maybe- with the nomad ending? It honestly feels like every ending tries to do the hollywood cliffhanger thing;

It kinda feels really bad that the character you made and got attached to over the course of the game has no option to use all the science in cyberpunk world to do something to cure themselves of what the biochip did to them over the course of the story. People just tell you its hopeless and either you die now or you die in a few months.

Why did it have to be this way? Idk maybe its in the spirit of cyberpunk world but I honestly didn't feel satisfied in how the game ended. Yes, I had seen all the endings. No, neither of them is a truly 'good' one, they are just different degrees of bad. Though I did enjoy the game and the story, I really wish there was a way for your character to either figure out a way to cure themselves, or -- if you get 100% relationship with Silverhand -- just harmlessly 'merge' yourselves and keep doing what you'd been doing, minus the glitches...

(Well when I said every ending I lied, I missed one, but I did google it and it seems like nothing is really different about it other than that its more challenging, but its basically just 'hardcore' silverhand ending you can do if you just do his normal path, your character still either has a few months to live or surrenders their body to Silverhand).

idk the end of the game just left me feeling sad and kinda disappointed. It's definitely not a mass effect situation where they need to patch the entire ending out and do it again, but... Meh? I expected at least one good conclusion to this story. Am I the only one who feels this way? Witcher 3 was pretty dark but it still had a great ending + an entire expansion that felt like a cheery adult fairy tale (blood and wine). Cyberpunk's endgame is just... Depression with a side of depression. And I don't think any of us really need -more- depression after 2020 ;/

One of the best comments.
To have one ending, where the fight is worth will be great. I do not think the genre must be 100% dark or to be hard of every edge. I hope that CDPR make those endings, because the will continue V's story and make his struggle worth, but here comes the years we need to wait for the DLC's or a sequel. The bond between you and you character, and the relationships between the main heroes are remarkable. 7 types of one ending....... how to fulfil the Silverhand word "never stop fighting", when the root is cut from beginning. Really i hope for more cyberpunk but in short term. Star ending give a little hope mixed with darkness but there is no option except to wait.

 

[Guest 4412420]

Not sure if this was on purpose, or because you get a lot of NonMQ city connections. I guess the problem is your city peoples have no power. vik, misty, mama Welles,

It's not so much as who has the power to help you assault Arasaka, it's the friendship worth caring for that feels like the game is pushing aside with the NC characters. Mama Welles welcomes a complete stranger/someone she barely knows into her home when V has nowhere else to go, Misty and Vik are there for V during two incredibly awful moments in their life. The game repeatedly tells us that Night City is a terrible place and genuine friendships are hard to come by. Yet, these three care for V without needing anything in return. You'd think V would treasure this but in The Sun they all say "haven't heard from you in a while". The way the heist is described it sounds like V has a small time window to pull it off so it's not like they've been floating in space for weeks and that's why they haven't talked to their friends.

As to the tone, its hard to say, I can see anyone being a bit more somber with the odds, but yeah, they do kinda decide what the char's perspective is, I don't rem if they had some options that were more defiant/confident. It is something its going to be hard for a fully voiced computer game to nail, I think.

All they had to do to make this better is to include at least one dialogue option where V doesn't sound like they're down in the dumps. But all of them have various shades of "I'm dead inside." The Sun had so much potential to be a "happy" ending like The Star but now I have to cling to like two lines of dialogue so I wouldn't feel like the game is going "should have picked Panam."

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Ohhhh. Over 900 pages...

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Ohhhh. Over 900 pages...

8097 more to go.

 

[Balmung79]

It's not so much as who has the power to help you assault Arasaka, it's the friendship worth caring for that feels like the game is pushing aside with the NC characters. Mama Welles welcomes a complete stranger/someone she barely knows into her home when V has nowhere else to go, Misty and Vik are there for V during two incredibly awful moments in their life. The game repeatedly tells us that Night City is a terrible place and genuine friendships are hard to come by. Yet, these three care for V without needing anything in return. You'd think V would treasure this but in The Sun they all say "haven't heard from you in a while". The way the heist is described it sounds like V has a small time window to pull it off so it's not like they've been floating in space for weeks and that's why they haven't talked to their friends.


All they had to do to make this better is to include at least one dialogue option where V doesn't sound like they're down in the dumps. But all of them have various shades of "I'm dead inside." The Sun had so much potential to be a "happy" ending like The Star but now I have to cling to like two lines of dialogue so I wouldn't feel like the game is going "should have picked Panam."

Actually I wasn't surprised at all. Nothing comes for free, especially in Cyberpunk. You always have to pay a price. The price in the Sun ending is the alienation from close people (and, maybe, giving up hope for a cure); the gain is to be a legend and to be named alongside other legends, Johnny, Morgan Blackhand, maybe Rogue(, and maybe leave the world with a big bang and a nice view from the very top, down to the world).

Tarot cards from that ending predict something like that:
Emperor: "[...]But prestige has its dark sides – the Emperor is dominating and ruthless and will climb over a mountain of bodies to achieve his aim."
World: "[...]Wiser and more world-weary than he started out[...]. One thing in this World is certain – you can't have it all."

In the Star ending you'll have that one meter, left one of the three, to be at 100% and stating that you are a legend as well, named alongside Johnny and Blackhand. But I guess your reputation will fade over time. Your price to pay is to be forgotten someday, your gain is a family and, dependant on choices, a loving partner.

So I'd say both endings are happy and sad at the same time, depends on your expectations which one suits you better.