[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Naglafar2183]

Thanks, just wanted to know what V's impact is on Saul/the Aldecaldos outside the Main Quests. Which is: without V doing more than the minimun, Saul'll be dead and basically V at least prolonges his life if not saves it (ending dependant).

I looked into this a bit more - this video shows has what happens if you betray Panam after saving Saul. There are some texts from Saul - the biotechnica deal doesn't work out, so the Basilisk and reconciling Panam and Saul is the only way forward. I don't think even Saul realizes this until after you get the Basilisk.

Post automatically merged: Feb 22, 2021

Only thing she can do is make an AI version of V (this is V’s engram), wipe the brain clean also removing most of Johnny memories, and reboot the body with V’s engram, somewhere in between “V’s soul” leaves the body and never returns.
This is also a reason why plot cancer exists because DNA changes are already made and they are not compatible with new engram on the old biochip.
Sort of, but the point is that body/brain is already to much altered for Johnny’s engram to be able to revers this.

This is not my interpretation this is what game says in capital letters.

My headcannon is that because V's soul is gone, that is why the body dies- his body rejects his engram since his mind is a basically a machine.

I think Johnny would also have tbe same issue, but it would take longer, since he's an engram too. This is based solely on my views of transhumanism though.

 

[Balmung79]

I looked into this a bit more - this video shows has what happens if you betray Panam after saving Saul. There are some texts from Saul - the biotechnica deal doesn't work out, so the Basilisk and reconciling Panam and Saul is the only way forward. I don't think even Saul realizes this until after you get the Basilisk.

Thanks for the info! I'm not sure if that reconciliation will work out tho. IF the Wiki is right on that issue, Panam will lose the power struggle to Saul, because she'll call in the endings and begs for jobs:

Details	Requirements

Panam calls V asking for any gigs ("I'll take anything that pays the rent").

Don't complete Panam's side jobs and choose any ending.

Would be somewhat interesting to test that scenario: save Saul, betray Panam to Saul and see if you'll get a message by her at all during the credits and if you'll get one, what it would say. Would kind of make the power struggle between Panam and Saul and the dynamic of that more transparent, and that would actually be the only motivation for me to try this out .

 

[Naglafar2183]

Thanks for the info! I'm not sure if that reconciliation will work out tho. IF the Wiki is right on that issue, Panam will lose the power struggle to Saul, because she'll call in the endings and begs for jobs:



Would be somewhat interesting to test that scenario: save Saul, betray Panam to Saul and see if you'll get a message by her at all during the credits and if you'll get one, what it would say. Would kind of make the power struggle between Panam and Saul and the dynamic of that more transparent, and that would actually be the only motivation for me to try this out .

The reconciliation works - it's the way to the Star ending, but you have to get the Basilisk. If you betray Panam though, yeah I don't think you can reconcile them.

I would be interested in that endgame scenario too. She is back in the clan at this point, but not in a leadership role. From Saul's messages, hes not going to kick her out. I think you'd probably get the right track voicemail you get if you don't romance her and do the Devil ending. I can't betray her though so I will never know haha.

 

[Balmung79]

The reconciliation works - it's the way to the Star ending, but you have to get the Basilisk. If you betray Panam though, yeah I don't think you can reconcile them.

I would be interested in that endgame scenario too. She is back in the clan at this point, but not in a leadership role. From Saul's messages, hes not going to kick her out. I think you'd probably get the right track voicemail you get if you don't romance her and do the Devil ending. I can't betray her though so I will never know haha.

Yep, tho the reconciliation only works partially, or better: superficially.
Panam sweet talks the few veterans (Carol, Bob, Ted, Cassidy and Mitch) onto her side as Carol says in With a Little Help from My Friends. And of course V helps her and at the end of the mission, right after when Panam and Saul clash, (Nomad-)V says that all eyes of the family were at the Basilisk. Saul of course knows that and when the Basilisk saves the Aldecaldos in Queen of the Highway from the Wraiths, Saul would have lost all of his authority, especially if we look at the video you posted where it shows that the Biotechnica idea of Saul won't work out.
So Saul has to do something and he chooses to embrace Panam rather to fight her. And with that he wins some time to get the initiative back to himself. In We Gotta Live Together (on the way to Star ending) you can talk to the veterans, and they are either baffled with the situation between Saul and Panam or tell you in secrecy (Mitch tells you to keep what he says confidential) what he, Mitch, is thinking: ongoing power struggle between Panam and Saul and Saul trying to win influence back.

Would be interesting as well to see how that works out if V completes the Panam-side-jobs, won't romance her and chooses all endings exept the Star ending. Both Panam and Saul are the family leaders and I'll expect them to clash at almost every decision that has to be taken.

 

[Rensarvik]

I tried out betraying Panam's Basilisk plan to Saul in my second playthrough. In immediate reaction she was suuuuper pissed in messages and a phonecall. But in the end I got fairly positive messages from both her and Saul. I think whole "Panam begging for jobs" only happens if you don't do any of her side missions at all, so saving Saul will already avoid that.

 

[Naglafar2183]

Yep, tho the reconciliation only works partially, or better: superficially.
Panam sweet talks the few veterans (Carol, Bob, Ted, Cassidy and Mitch) onto her side as Carol says in With a Little Help from My Friends. And of course V helps her and at the end of the mission, right after when Panam and Saul clash, (Nomad-)V says that all eyes of the family were at the Basilisk. Saul of course knows that and when the Basilisk saves the Aldecaldos in Queen of the Highway from the Wraiths, Saul would have lost all of his authority, especially if we look at the video you posted where it shows that the Biotechnica idea of Saul won't work out.
So Saul has to do something and he chooses to embrace Panam rather to fight her. And with that he wins some time to get the initiative back to himself. In We Gotta Live Together (on the way to Star ending) you can talk to the veterans, and they are either baffled with the situation between Saul and Panam or tell you in secrecy (Mitch tells you to keep what he says confidential) what he, Mitch, is thinking: ongoing power struggle between Panam and Saul and Saul trying to win influence back.

Would be interesting as well to see how that works out if V completes the Panam-side-jobs, won't romance her and chooses all endings exept the Star ending. Both Panam and Saul are the family leaders and I'll expect them to clash at almost every decision that has to be taken.

Saul's no dummy, he is trying to do what he thinks is best for the clan, and he still thinks Panam makes risky choices. It is kind of a dick move to blame her if things go south on the Arasaka raid for sure though.

One of the non star voicemails from her says Saul and her are seeing eye to on things finally, so it's implied they do work things out, even if V isn't there. I don't remember if that is the romance one or the other one though.

 

[GVArcian]

And how neuroplasticity works and how is this connected to the fact that Biochip is changing the brain structure by the nanites?

Because the nanites are exploiting the brain's neuroplasticity in order to essentially reprogram the relic user's memories and personality. Your neural network changes all the time as a result of lived experiences, strengthening existing neural connections relevant to those experiences, weakening neural connections that aren't relevant, and creating new connections for new experiences. This is neuroplasticity.

What the Relic does is to hijack this process by artificially restructuring the neural connections via nanites to form what is essentially artificial memories the brain never actually experienced. The brain can't tell the difference, since it has to reference its own memory in order to determine whether or not its memory is accurate.

as soon as Biochip activate it is changing brain to fits its purpose, this is to make a room for AI on this Buochip. This is reason why Act 2 well is happening.

First of all, an engram is not an AI. An AI or personality construct can incorporate engramatic data in its own code to simulate the person the engram is based on (which is why the Alt AI still identifies as Alt and has what can be considered a personality), but the engram itself has no consciousness, it's just a digitized neural map.

As Dr Packard explains in River's personal quest:

"Well, it's designed to store a person's neural engram. Er, sorry... just imagine copying over a person's memories and personality."

Secondly, you say "make room for", yet you refuse to explain how an organic brain can house digital data. The biochip isn't turning the brain into a computer, it's just exploiting neuroplasticity to remove old memories and create new, fake ones based on memories stored in the engram.

This is explained by Vic who is physician in more layman’s words but and Hellman who is neuroscientist who created the biochip in almost full version.

Neither of them describe what you're talking about.

Alt who just happens that created the Soulkiller and later tailored it to this form also described this in this fashion.

No, she says she will inject V's engram (aka a digital copy of their memories and personality) back into their body. She's being vague about how this is supposed to happen, but since engramatic data can't be written directly into the brain (given that the brain is a biological organ and not a digital storage device), realistically the only way to achieve this is by replacing Johnny's engram on the relic with V's engram and then have the Relic's nanites reconfigure V's neural network with their own memories and personality stored in their engram.

The end result is that V - the original, biological V - wakes up outside of Mikoshi with their original memories and personality, almost as if nothing's changed.

Only thing she can do is make an AI version of V (this is V’s engram), wipe the brain clean also removing most of Johnny memories, and reboot the body with V’s engram, somewhere in between “V’s soul” leaves the body and never returns.

I've already explained why engrams aren't AIs.

And the concept of a soul in the cyberpunk genre has nothing to do with the metaphysical or religious concept of a soul, it's another term for humanity. Alt believes the process will eliminate V's humanity because that's what happened to her. She's also spent so long in cyberspace that she no longer has any concept of what it's like to be a biological human being, so nothing she says about the human condition should be taken as gospel.

This is also a reason why plot cancer exists because DNA changes are already made and they are not compatible with new engram on the old biochip. Sort of, but the point is that body/brain is already to much altered for Johnny’s engram to be able to revers this.

Yeah this is all BS because neural connections are not genetic - if they were, V's body would have rejected Johnny's engram. The DNA factor was some nonsense introduced to enforce the game's binary ending choices.

This is not my interpretation this is what game says in capital letters.

On the contrary, not only is this your interpretation, it's an interpretation you've made with zero evidence to back it up.

 

[Balmung79]

I tried out betraying Panam's Basilisk plan to Saul in my second playthrough. In immediate reaction she was suuuuper pissed in messages and a phonecall. But in the end I got fairly positive messages from both her and Saul. I think whole "Panam begging for jobs" only happens if you don't do any of her side missions at all, so saving Saul will already avoid that.

Ok, thanks. That clears it up for me.

Post automatically merged: Feb 22, 2021

Saul's no dummy, he is trying to do what he thinks is best for the clan, and he still thinks Panam makes risky choices. It is kind of a dick move to blame her if things go south on the Arasaka raid for sure though.

One of the non star voicemails from her says Saul and her are seeing eye to on things finally, so it's implied they do work things out, even if V isn't there. I don't remember if that is the romance one or the other one though.

Surprises me kind of, but family dynamics are sometimes strange.

 

[theBlackDragon]

And how neuroplasticity works and how is this connected to the fact that Biochip is changing the brain structure by the nanites?

as soon as Biochip activate it is changing brain to fits its purpose, this is to make a room for AI on this Buochip. This is reason why Act 2 well is happening.
This is explained by Vic who is physician in more layman’s words but and Hellman who is neuroscientist who created the biochip in almost full version.

Alt who just happens that created the Soulkiller and later tailored it to this form also described this in this fashion.

Only thing she can do is make an AI version of V (this is V’s engram), wipe the brain clean also removing most of Johnny memories, and reboot the body with V’s engram, somewhere in between “V’s soul” leaves the body and never returns.
This is also a reason why plot cancer exists because DNA changes are already made and they are not compatible with new engram on the old biochip.
Sort of, but the point is that body/brain is already to much altered for Johnny’s engram to be able to revers this.

This is not my interpretation this is what game says in capital letters.

That depends entirely on whether you believe a "soul" is even a thing, the game most definitely does not take a stance either way. The entire question is arguably one of the big questions the game poses (as a sidenote: it's also one of the main themes SOMA explores)

What is a fact though is that parts of V's mind are irreversibly destroyed by the Relic, so the "original" V per definition no longer exists, and not just in the Misty "we become someone new every moment of the day"-sense, but in the "parts of your mind were literally irrevocably overwritten by another person" sense.

Actually wonder why we didn't get a fully "merged" consciousness as a possible outcome (well, because set-up for story continuation, I'd guess, but I digress, again...)

 

[Tofujunky]

1)I never said yorinobu doesnt care about takemura. He clearly cares about takemura, we see him hunting takemura when V first wakes up, and during the parade, and wakako tells us takemura is a wanted man that she could turn in. Takemura also is implied to be having a rough time being in hiding.

1)why would you expect to see takemura being attacked by yorinobu(more than we already do). You hung out with him for like 2-10 hours out of 2-3 weeks. Do you think takemura would be in a 3 week long non stop gunfight with arasaka?

2)yorinobu has no reason to hunt V.
1)V seeing him kill his father is irrelevant. Hanako tells you this, everyone already knew this was the most likely scenario. Yorinobu is in power because no one sees Value in opposing him. Only two other factions even Have the power to do so. Hanako and Michiko. What is the point of hunting a worthless person? Takemura on the other hand is a highly trained operative, with inside knowledge and connections within Arasaka, who might sway michiko or hanako to oppose him, or just try to take vengeance personally.

2)yorinobu does not want Arasaka to have sole access to relic, and all he wanted in exchange for relic was intelligence to destroy the company. He now has access to whatever he likely wanted to know as leader. Retrieving relic no longer serves any purpose, and he has no reason to believe the merc who stole it would still have it. What value does yorinobu gain by hunting V? nothing.


V's story is disconnected from the fight inside Arasaka because it has nothing to do with him. If V didnt have the chip in their head, they would have no reason to be involved in it. And the people involved in it, other than takemura, dont want anyone to know about their internal power struggles. Takemura also doesn't want you to make an informed decision and choose whatever faction you prefer. He wants you to help him displace yorinobu and place hanako as leader. When you ask him about it he gives you extremely basic information, when as personal guard to saburo Arasaka, he would know more about the three factions, their motivations and connections.

This is all wrong in so many ways I don't know where to begin. There's no deciet from Goro, nor is there some special secret plot to make sure Hanako assumes power. It's literally about him wanting revenge and wanting to protect Hanako and that's it. There is nothing more to the story. I don't know why people keep inventing this storyline where Goro and Hanako are in it together for power. Goro is one of the most honest characters in the game, his problem is his delusion about the Arasakas. He believes everything they say.

 

[theBlackDragon]

Saul's no dummy, he is trying to do what he thinks is best for the clan, and he still thinks Panam makes risky choices. It is kind of a dick move to blame her if things go south on the Arasaka raid for sure though.

One of the non star voicemails from her says Saul and her are seeing eye to on things finally, so it's implied they do work things out, even if V isn't there. I don't remember if that is the romance one or the other one though.

Can confirm I definitely got that voice mail in my non-romance (female V) play through, that was quite a bit before the ending though. V showing up for the Aldecaldos ending clearly puts strain back on the relationship between Panam and Saul.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Because the nanites are exploiting the brain's neuroplasticity in order to essentially reprogram the relic user's memories and personality. Your neural network changes all the time as a result of lived experiences, strengthening existing neural connections relevant to those experiences, weakening neural connections that aren't relevant, and creating new connections for new experiences. This is neuroplasticity.

What the Relic does is to hijack this process by artificially restructuring the neural connections via nanites to form what is essentially artificial memories the brain never actually experienced. The brain can't tell the difference, since it has to reference its own memory in order to determine whether or not its memory is accurate.


First of all, an engram is not an AI. An AI or personality construct can incorporate engramatic data in its own code to simulate the person the engram is based on (which is why the Alt AI still identifies as Alt and has what can be considered a personality), but the engram itself has no consciousness, it's just a digitized neural map.

As Dr Packard explains in River's personal quest:

"Well, it's designed to store a person's neural engram. Er, sorry... just imagine copying over a person's memories and personality."

Secondly, you say "make room for", yet you refuse to explain how an organic brain can house digital data. The biochip isn't turning the brain into a computer, it's just exploiting neuroplasticity to remove old memories and create new, fake ones based on memories stored in the engram.


Neither of them describe what you're talking about.


No, she says she will inject V's engram (aka a digital copy of their memories and personality) back into their body. She's being vague about how this is supposed to happen, but since engramatic data can't be written directly into the brain (given that the brain is a biological organ and not a digital storage device), realistically the only way to achieve this is by replacing Johnny's engram on the relic with V's engram and then have the Relic's nanites reconfigure V's neural network with their own memories and personality stored in their engram.

The end result is that V - the original, biological V - wakes up outside of Mikoshi with their original memories and personality, almost as if nothing's changed.


I've already explained why engrams aren't AIs.

And the concept of a soul in the cyberpunk genre has nothing to do with the metaphysical or religious concept of a soul, it's another term for humanity. Alt believes the process will eliminate V's humanity because that's what happened to her. She's also spent so long in cyberspace that she no longer has any concept of what it's like to be a biological human being, so nothing she says about the human condition should be taken as gospel.


Yeah this is all BS because neural connections are not genetic - if they were, V's body would have rejected Johnny's engram. The DNA factor was some nonsense introduced to enforce the game's binary ending choices.


On the contrary, not only is this your interpretation, it's an interpretation you've made with zero evidence to back it up.

you have some decent theories, but they say its altering neural pathways, which is actually biologically, dendrites. You also said building neural structures, which is neural anatomy, which for humans, are nerves. If they are building biological structures, DNA would be required, as its the basic building block for biology. The question would be what DNA is being used. v? Johnny? something new/custom?

 

[Naglafar2183]

Can confirm I definitely got that voice mail in my non-romance (female V) play through, that was quite a bit before the ending though. V showing up for the Aldecaldos ending clearly puts strain back on the relationship between Panam and Saul.

So you got a text that they are getting along? I am not aware of any voicemails except for the ending. I got that too but I think that was when Saul was still vying for power after the Basilisk job. I have only been through the game once so my memory of this part is a little fuzzy.

 

[Barsenthor]

Because the nanites are exploiting the brain's neuroplasticity in order to essentially reprogram the relic user's memories and personality. Your neural network changes all the time as a result of lived experiences, strengthening existing neural connections relevant to those experiences, weakening neural connections that aren't relevant, and creating new connections for new experiences. This is neuroplasticity.

What the Relic does is to hijack this process by artificially restructuring the neural connections via nanites to form what is essentially artificial memories the brain never actually experienced. The brain can't tell the difference, since it has to reference its own memory in order to determine whether or not its memory is accurate.


First of all, an engram is not an AI. An AI or personality construct can incorporate engramatic data in its own code to simulate the person the engram is based on (which is why the Alt AI still identifies as Alt and has what can be considered a personality), but the engram itself has no consciousness, it's just a digitized neural map.

As Dr Packard explains in River's personal quest:

"Well, it's designed to store a person's neural engram. Er, sorry... just imagine copying over a person's memories and personality."

Secondly, you say "make room for", yet you refuse to explain how an organic brain can house digital data. The biochip isn't turning the brain into a computer, it's just exploiting neuroplasticity to remove old memories and create new, fake ones based on memories stored in the engram.


Neither of them describe what you're talking about.


No, she says she will inject V's engram (aka a digital copy of their memories and personality) back into their body. She's being vague about how this is supposed to happen, but since engramatic data can't be written directly into the brain (given that the brain is a biological organ and not a digital storage device), realistically the only way to achieve this is by replacing Johnny's engram on the relic with V's engram and then have the Relic's nanites reconfigure V's neural network with their own memories and personality stored in their engram.

The end result is that V - the original, biological V - wakes up outside of Mikoshi with their original memories and personality, almost as if nothing's changed.


I've already explained why engrams aren't AIs.

And the concept of a soul in the cyberpunk genre has nothing to do with the metaphysical or religious concept of a soul, it's another term for humanity. Alt believes the process will eliminate V's humanity because that's what happened to her. She's also spent so long in cyberspace that she no longer has any concept of what it's like to be a biological human being, so nothing she says about the human condition should be taken as gospel.


Yeah this is all BS because neural connections are not genetic - if they were, V's body would have rejected Johnny's engram. The DNA factor was some nonsense introduced to enforce the game's binary ending choices.


On the contrary, not only is this your interpretation, it's an interpretation you've made with zero evidence to back it up.

Lol, I don’t understand why are you arguing with me and not with, I don’t know CDPR or with the writers.

Its not my idea to make a biochip/ relic and to say that this biochip interferes with the brain in this particular fashion, but this is what story tells.

You are getting shot in the head which turns on the Biochip because it is to be activated once there is some “critical brain failure” and it begins to “rewrite” brain.
This is only explained that biochip is doing this by changing brain through the nanites, the rest is a plot hole.

But this is the plot of the Act 2 and 3. V’s brain structure is being morphed into Johnny’s engram structure this take time and this time is what you have left in order to “try to save your life”. It is said that with each day there will be more Johnny and less V duo to nanites that rewrite the brain.
Game here constantly repeats itself that this is all in vain, but let’s move on.

One of option is to extract the creator of the chip. You do this and you learn that your condition is terminal, nothing can be done since biochip is doing its magic and damage was already be done, plus the overall brain damage due to gunshot is just to severe to even trying to remove biochip(sic!).
He can only send you to the palliative clinic in Sweden, to ease the dying. He says this two times, most players will now make a head canon that he knows a Jack s...

Second option is through Alt Cunningham, who is currently an AI living behind the Blackwall. You go to talk to her and she says that she can only try to change you into an engram. This is use a Soulkiller that do what is says to do, and upload this on the old biochip by overwriting Johnny’s.
When Johnny says here that “V hopes into
The body, nothing changes” and here she interprets him and comment that “no Soulkiller changes everything, and you know this”.

Yea the concept of the soul is vague, but here is rather straightforward. Since Soulkiller creates a copy of the “mind” and than flatlines (aka kills) the body/brain so it basically kills the soul aka human.
What remains is artificial mind, aka artificial intelligence with memories of the deceased host. So yes, Soulkiller kills human (soul) and creates artificial (digital) mind with memories (AI).

Than this engram/artificial mind= Intelligence is being transferred on the biochip.

Alt just forgets about DNA part, so V’s engram is trapped in the brain that is being melted by the immunology system of deceased V’s Body (aka plot cancer).
There is no currently known technology to stop this. Some people will make theirs fan fiction that MBE or Biotechnica has something, and this may or may not be true and even if, this is DLC story not the base CP77.

And by all account this is not my interpretation this is just synopsis of what game says. Since CDPR is responsible for lore for the CP77 this is also a lore.

 

[GVArcian]

you have some decent theories, but they say its altering neural pathways, which is actually biologically, dendrites. You also said building neural structures, which is neural anatomy, which for humans, are nerves.

Neural pathways and neural structures are used interchangibly by the game, but both refer to neural connections aka dendrites. I can't see a reason why the Relic would need to rewire the nervous system.

If they are building biological structures, DNA would be required, as its the basic building block for biology. The question would be what DNA is being used. v? Johnny? something new/custom?

V's. Soulkiller doesn't extract the victim's genome, only their neural map, so the only biological building blocks the nanites have to work with are V's own.

 

[Naglafar2183]

Second option is through Alt Cunningham, who is currently an AI living behind the Blackwall. You go to talk to her and she says that she can only try to change you into an engram. This is use a Soulkiller that do what is says to do, and upload this on the old biochip by overwriting Johnny’s.
When Johnny says here that “Ok V let’s do this won’t change” she interpreted him and says, no Soulkiller changes everything.

Yea the concept of the soul is artificial, but here is rather straightforward. Since Soulkiller creates a copy of the “mind” and than flatlines the body so it basically kills the soul aka human.
What remains is artificial mind, aka artificial intelligence with memories of the deceased host. So yes, Soulkiller kills human (soul) and creates artificial (digital) mind with memories (AI).

Than this engram/artificial mind= Intelligence is being transferred on the biochip.

Alt just forgets about DNA part, so V’s engram is trapped in the brain that is being melted by the immunology system of deceased V’s Body (aka plot cancer).
There is no currently known technology to stop this. Some people will make theirs fan fiction that MBE or Biotechnica has something, and this may or may not be truth but this is DLC story not the base CP77z

And by all account this is not my interpretation this is just synopsis of what game says. Since CDPR is responsible for lore for the CP77 this is also a lore.

I think overall you are right here, but I think the game leaves things intentionally vague here so its open to interpretation. Drilling down into the exact science in the game I think is difficult since its so vague. You are making some leaps with the DNA thing IMO, but its not necessarily wrong or right.

 

[Barsenthor]

I think overall you are right here, but I think the game leaves things intentionally vague here so its open to interpretation. Drilling down into the exact science in the game I think is difficult since its so vague. You are making some leaps with the DNA thing IMO, but its not necessarily wrong or right.

Sure but as Alt says - Soulkiller do what is says he do. V even said that Alt is going to save her/him by flatlining (=kill) him/her along the way”, which she relies that your consciousness and memory will be recorded as data(six!), the “rest” will ceased to exists. The ask frightfully “the rest?” And Alt replies that Soulkiller do what is says to do. Johnny kicks in saying that V just hopes back to its body, nothing changes” and here Alt interrupts him “No, Soulkiller changes everything, you know this”. Tbh I don’t know how to describe this better.

So the point stands that human V is gone the moment the Soulkiller is being executed.
What remains is the engram of V (artificial mind) on the biochip that rewrites the brain of flatlined V.

 

[Naglafar2183]

Sure but as Alt says - Soulkiller do what is says he do. V even said that Alt is going to save her/him by flatlining (=kill) him/her along the way”, which she relies that your consciousness and memory will be recorded as data(six!), the “rest” will ceased to exists. The ask frightfully “the rest?” And Alt replies that Soulkiller do what is says to do. Johnny kicks in saying that V just hopes back to its body, nothing changes” and here Alt interrupts him “No, Soulkiller changes everything, you know this”. Tbh I don’t know how to describe this better.
So the point stands that human V is gone the moment the Soulkiller is being executed.

What remains is the engram of V (artificial mind) on the biochip

This is all right, and I don't disaree

that rewrites the brain.

This, what is killing V, is unclear (intentionally). DNA is one good theory, but I don't think any answer is definite. I like that, since you can apply your own headcannon to the situation. DNA, soul, immune system, whatever.

 

[Balmung79]

Sure but as Alt says - Soulkiller do what is says he do. [...] And Alt replies that Soulkiller do what is says to do. Johnny kicks in saying that V just hopes back to its body, nothing changes” and here Alt interrupts him “No, Soulkiller changes everything, you know this”. Tbh I don’t know how to describe this better.

So the point stands that human V is gone the moment the Soulkiller is being executed.
[...]

But you should "describe this better"! Because you're bringing up this point over and over again: V gets soulkilled into an engram, with that the "soul gets killed" litterally, because Alt says so, and therefore V is dead in all endings except Arasaka-no-contract. And then "whine-whine grimdark", "whine-whine bad writing", "whine-whine betrayal by CDPR" or whatever.

So what's that magic with that soul?

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Sure but as Alt says - Soulkiller do what is says he do. V even said that Alt is going to save her/him by flatlining (=kill) him/her along the way”, which she relies that your consciousness and memory will be recorded as data(six!), the “rest” will ceased to exists. The ask frightfully “the rest?” And Alt replies that Soulkiller do what is says to do. Johnny kicks in saying that V just hopes back to its body, nothing changes” and here Alt interrupts him “No, Soulkiller changes everything, you know this”. Tbh I don’t know how to describe this better.

So the point stands that human V is gone the moment the Soulkiller is being executed.
What remains is the engram of V (artificial mind) on the biochip that rewrites the brain of flatlined V.

Johnny is an engram, he doesn't think its the end of V. Saburo doesnt think its the end of Saburo. Monk has their own understanding. Alt has her own perspective. Its not going to be answered by an NPC, this is a philosophical question, not a mechanical one.

This is, "if a tree falls in a forest and no one hears it does it make a sound" or

"The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned from Crete had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their places, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same. "