I however have few critical remarks towards way how is created "action part" of the Special ending:
enemies are spawned out of nowhere ... this really is bad game mechanism
there seems is possible use only "brute force" to pass through waves of enemies, and this is very in contrast with a way how are missions normally concipied in this game (possibility use stelath, hacking etc.)
declining healing and removal of possibility save game reduces fun. It actually means that player makes/prepares his character to be practically unkillable and enemies are then just "cannon fodder" ... but this is issue with combat balance overall.
is too short: its just kill, kill, kill and kill and then is end
I was pretty much disappointed when V popped up right in Arasaka Tower. Where's the prep, an Avi etc? Imo Johnny+Rogue have the most spectacular opening of the mission (and Nomads the longest with the prep).
Second, it lacks detail. Even before I got to the endings on the first playthrough, I thought it would be great, for example, to play Samurai while attacking Arasaka. Well, the devs thought so too, so Johnny can do it. In the Devil, V can "send Silverhand's regards" to Saburo. But nothing like this in the secret ending, just a firing range.
Third, when V goes in solo, it makes it even more interesting how V got out of Mikoshi in the end. No Weyland, no Panam to help.
Fourth, I know it's highly unlikely, but imagine someone does the secret ending as their first ending ever. They won't even have a chance to refill their ammo or choose another weapon. (Yeah, I know, there's "point of no return message", but still -- why can't V get to their stash between rooftop and Mikoshi? Or should the player die, and then reload and replay?).
Fifth, it has the same epilogue as another ending.
Sixth, getting it is based on 2 dialogue lines that make little to no sense.
Last, it sucks how there's this tourniquet at the Arasaka Tower entrance. So in open world, you can't even walk into Arasaka Tower and shoot everyone for fun (only from the front door), but then in the final mission the game just spawns you behind it.
And yes, this is my favourite way cause no one dies, V's more independent, and if you choose no LIs then no one bothers dying V with their problems after the shower
I however have few critical remarks towards way how is created "action part" of the Special ending:
enemies are spawned out of nowhere ... this really is bad game mechanism
there seems is possible use only "brute force" to pass through waves of enemies, and this is very in contrast with a way how are missions normally concipied in this game (possibility use stelath, hacking etc.)
declining healing and removal of possibility save game reduces fun. It actually means that player makes/prepares his character to be practically unkillable and enemies are then just "cannon fodder" ... but this is issue with combat balance overall.
is too short: its just kill, kill, kill and kill and then is end
I defeated most of them exactly by using hacks. My character was also far from unkillable, but If you go alone it is supposed that your character is strong enough to manage the situation, it could be weird if it was too easy...The mission is short because you are working alone and you don't need to organize anything.
Ok, what I have experienced is that one needs 70% on the Johnny-meter, for which one needs the Kerry-side missions as well. If I'm wrong here, you're welcome to correct me. That one has to do the Rogue-missions based on free choice before you already acknowledged.
And of course it all kind of revolves around some meta-questions, e.g.:
A "happy ending", which probably everyone has a different imagination of; a more of choices, so that every imaginable ending/romance/persons on top of the tank in Star ending, cuddling or not-cuddling/life in NC as the player wants it without any story boundaries; and more: was anything of that ever promised and reasonably to be expected?
Is an unwanted consequence to a choice (e.g. ask Panam for help --> become a nomad --> leave NC) an example of too less options and some hidden compulsion? Or is the desire to have the choices to get a perfect, individual story and ending an expectation of being a godlike entity in NC, who in consequence every NPC circles around?
Do players have an entitlement of something that the company has not promised?
I don't think any reasonable person expects a game to have infinite endings to match every small scenario, you're creating an argument that no one is making. Of course there are story boundaries, we just disagree where those story boundaries are. A few extra lines of dialogue could have made a V that was going with the Aldecaldos because they had to for the potential cure, but was looking forward to coming back to Night City. 'Can take the V out of Night City but can't take the Night City out of V' kind of deal. Alternatively you could have a few lines that make a Legend V looking forward to getting out of town the first chance they got because they hate all this gaudy pool-on-a-roof living. Nothing crazy, but that would give the player just a smidge more control. In my first ending playthrough, I felt like I was being straight up kidnapped by the plot.
And I think any customer is entitled to discuss what they did and didn't like about a product, promised or not. If I sit down at a restaurant and the menu is "1/4lb chicken sandwich and fries" and "1/4lb burger and fries", I'd expect the two to offer the same amount of fries. If I order chicken and my friend orders a burger, but they get a plate of fries with theirs and I get half that, I'll question it despite there not being a written promise they get the same amount of fries.
I was pretty much disappointed when V popped up right in Arasaka Tower. Where's the prep, an Avi etc? Imo Johnny+Rogue have the most spectacular opening of the mission (and Nomads the longest with the prep).
Second, it lacks detail. Even before I got to the endings on the first playthrough, I thought it would be great, for example, to play Samurai while attacking Arasaka. Well, the devs thought so too, so Johnny can do it. In the Devil, V can "send Silverhand's regards" to Saburo. But nothing like this in the secret ending, just a firing range.
Third, when V goes in solo, it makes it even more interesting how V got out of Mikoshi in the end. No Weyland, no Panam to help.
Fourth, I know it's highly unlikely, but imagine someone does the secret ending as their first ending ever. They won't even have a chance to refill their ammo or choose another weapon. (Yeah, I know, there's "point of no return message", but still -- why can't V get to their stash between rooftop and Mikoshi? Or should the player die, and then reload and replay?).
Fifth, it has the same epilogue as another ending.
Sixth, getting it is based on 2 dialogue lines that make little to no sense.
Last, it sucks how there's this tourniquet at the Arasaka Tower entrance. So in open world, you can't even walk into Arasaka Tower and shoot everyone for fun (only from the front door), but then in the final mission the game just spawns you behind it.
And yes, this is my favourite way cause no one dies, V's more independent, and if you choose no LIs then no one bothers dying V with their problems after the shower
I did the secret ending as my first and the last and the secret ending is well...the secret ending. People need to wait like few minutes before Johnny's suggestion, so most of them know what this is all about, or they choose the option before this one pops up. Of course, they could invest some time to add some extra details, but I'm just glad that this option exists at all Is in my opinion the game perfect? Well, I love it but there is a lot to be improved, a lot of plot holes and I hope that we'll have some good changes after they manage most of the bugs and console issues.
Ok, what I have experienced is that one needs 70% on the Johnny-meter, for which one needs the Kerry-side missions as well. If I'm wrong here, you're welcome to correct me. That one has to do the Rogue-missions based on free choice you already acknowledged.
I don't think any reasonable person expects a game to have infinite endings to match every small scenario, you're creating an argument that no one is making. Of course there are story boundaries, we just disagree where those story boundaries are. A few extra lines of dialogue could have made a V that was going with the Aldecados because they had to for the potential cure, but was looking forward to coming back to Night City. 'Can take the V out of Night City but can't take the Night City out of V' kind of deal. Alternatively you could have a few lines that make a Legend V looking forward to getting out of town the first chance they got because they hate all this gaudy pool-on-a-roof living. Nothing crazy, but that would give the player just a smidge more control. In my first ending playthrough, I felt like I was being straight up kidnapped by the plot.
And I think any customer is entitled to discuss what they did and didn't like about a product, promised or not. If I sit down at a restaurant and the menu is "1/4lb chicken sandwich and fries" and "1/4lb burger and fries", I'd expect the two to offer the same amount of fries. If I order chicken and my friend orders a burger, but they get a plate of fries with theirs and I get half that, I'll question it despite there not being a written promise they get the same amount of fries.
Actually I have read at least one example for the alleged lack of choices people made, so no, I don't create an argument out of the blue.
That there could be more? Yes, of course. But there is something, in my opinion enough at the time being.
Neither Star nor Sun ending rule out anything you would like to have added. V might leave the nomads someday, the nomads might come back to NC area, V might leave NC after finding a cure or after the raid of Crystal Palace. It's about what you read into the choices and dialogue options you get.
If you are not ok with the product, complain. If the producer doesn't resolve your issue, go on and look for another restaurant.
We're here and complaining in the hopes that they will resolve the issue, you're free to ignore our complaints if you just want to eat your fries. If I hated the game entirely and didn't think it was salvagable at all, I would delete it and wouldn't seek out a community of people talking about it, positives and negatives.
We're here and complaining in the hopes that they will resolve the issue, you're free to ignore our complaints if you just want to eat your fries. If I hated the game entirely and didn't think it was salvagable at all, I would delete it and wouldn't seek out a community of people talking about it, positives and negatives.
Oh, nice to hear that you do not hate the game entirely and it'll be salvagable when devs do what you want from them. Maybe the fries came in small size, but were of good taste then.
We're here and complaining in the hopes that they will resolve the issue, you're free to ignore our complaints if you just want to eat your fries. If I hated the game entirely and didn't think it was salvagable at all, I would delete it and wouldn't seek out a community of people talking about it, positives and negatives.
Yeah if i was burned on the game completely i'd have uninstalled it by now. It's still there waiting in the hopes post game content will fix the mess. I like a lot of game apart from the atrocious way they went about the endings. I don't see any issue with expressing how badly railroaded the ending/epilogue mechanics are towards the character motivations and how i dislike the heavyhanded plot cancer.
Yeah if i was burned on the game completely i'd have uninstalled it by now. It's still there waiting in the hopes post game content will fix the mess. I like a lot of game apart from the atrocious way they went about the endings. I don't see any issue with expressing how badly railroaded the ending/epilogue mechanics are towards the character motivations and how i dislike the heavyhanded plot cancer.
Dunno why it's such a big deal, and honestly I'm happy people enjoyed the game. It would just be nice if people could talk about what they liked about the game without putting down people talking about what disappointed them. Vik's cute and I want to smooch him, doesn't mean I want to take out all the guns and turn the game into CyberLove 2077
The endings feel like a season finale, but the kind where you're not sure there will be another season so you're just left in limbo waiting for it to be picked back up. In the meantime people are going to discuss it to death and back.
Hmm, I'm leaning toward an inability or an unwillingness to understand at this point. The former would likely be due to a communication disconnect or... other reasons. The latter would be due to fanatically defending the game at all costs because it's clearly the perfect most bestest best mega ultra cool game ever.
Anyways.... So, according to you if you ask the Nomads for help and don't leave NC with them the 6 months to live bit isn't ambiguous anymore and V is destined to die? Let me guess, V isn't legendary enough to meet Blue Eyes if they ask the Nomads instead of Rogue to help bust into Arasaka?
If V leaves NC without the Nomads it's the same deal and V must die, right? It's not like they could ask the Nomads for their "cure" contacts (if you helped them but made a different choice on the rooftop) or find them on their own. Contacts the game clearly indicates are a guaranteed solution, of course.
6 months to live in the Arasaka ending isn't ambiguous either, according to you? Nope, that one ensures V is going to die at the end of those 6 months. We better hop into cyberland there I guess.
Did I? Hmm.... I don't recall saying I wanted another way to kill my character. We can probably agree our bases are covered there. If my memory is right, I said I wouldn't mind it if my character died as a result of choosing to leave or remain in NC. Provided I was given this choice. Alas, I cannot make this choice because it's tied to specific endings. <-- What's being criticized.
Your first two sentences are predicated on the claim the game needs another way for the player to kill their own character. Lemme check my notes... Nope, I never said that. As we know, 1 and 2 are not equal. 2 is twice as much as 1.
The third sentence is almost there. It's progress I suppose. If you rewrite it as the following it's on point. "They wanted the game to be written such that the decision on the roof wouldn't determine whether V leaves or remains in NC.". If it had been written this way it opens up more options for both the epilogue and romance conclusions. More options = worse game right?
We're all welcome to our opinions.
We got 36 more pages before we get back to the start of the circle.
I think you think this is a battle with a winner and loser, this is a discussion, a sharing of ideas.
ok, I see. You don't see what I see. Then let me explain what I mean, since this appears to be the key difference in our perspective.
V's choice on the roof changes the balance of power in NC. and creates new opportunities for whoever they choose.
1)Arasaka. If v chooses Arasaka, they are ascendent, they have their research, Hellman, Hanako, Relic 2.0, Soulkiller, A stable company. If V leaves, they have no connections and no leads, they no longer have relic 2.0 to show anybody, or alt for data, or Hellman's files. The nomads are barely making ends meat. Mr blue eyes is unknown, and he is in a different position (I'll elaborate later). V's decision has made it extremely unlikely they can use the other methods presented.
2)Sun path. V not only gets connections, and money they don't have in other endings, ie blue eyes. Them raiding Arasaka created an opportunity for blue eyes to steal from Arasaka, which allows this mission to be possible.
Blue eyes: "It meant positive paralysis of Arasaka's Systems. A few additional hatches opened up, my people rushed In, grabbed what they could." V: "So its all systems go for the Op"
V's actions of raiding Arasaka, without nomads to clean up behind them directly gave Blue eyes the opportunity for this plan. If they chose Nomads, or Arasaka, blue eyes could not set up this mission, even if you met them. Nor would blue eyes be impressed enough since you didnt take on Arasaka either Solo, or with a small group of Mercs, to present this near impossible solo mission
Arasaka is of course not an option in this ending, mikoshi no longer exists, hanako is dead etc.
The nomads do not have the same resources or knowledge that may lead to V's survival. This is clear when talking to panam. She says to come with her in order to die with family, not because she has access to anyone with cure.
V: "what would it change if I did leave? Only got a few months left"
Panam: "It would be a few months among people you care about, people who care about you"
Panam in this ending clearly has no knowledge of a possible cure.
V has spent at least a month looking for ways to survive, and this is their best option with the resources at their disposal.
3) Nomads, In this ending, the nomads were able to gut Arasaka of useful technology and data. They are going back to the nation with tons of resources and therefore influence in the Nomad organizations. This also destroys Arasaka's as an option, And blue eyes was not able to raid Arasaka when V attacked, because Nomads already did. As I said previously, Panam shows no signs of having any connections that might help V in the sun ending, She clearly wants to. V has no realistic opportunity to survive if they leave nomads in the star ending.
So basically, the choice of who V raids or doesn't raid arasaka with, directly creates the consequence where that group is the only real option given V's connections, knowledge, resources and time frame. This means V going with nomads means dying with family as Panam says in sun. This is why, for me its bit redundant to ask you if you want to struggle to survive or let go, again. The V in sun and star has already made that choice imo.
however yeah there are some who may prefer dying slowly with the LI to letting Johnny live a full life. Or continuing to struggle to live. But no crpg covers every possibility, and this one would be the player changing thier mind.
as an aside, personally, yeah I would like to believe the V that says screw you to Arasaka will find another way, preferably becoming a corpo king who is independent of Arasaka. but nothing the game shows makes that seem likely.
I don't think any reasonable person expects a game to have infinite endings to match every small scenario, you're creating an argument that no one is making. Of course there are story boundaries, we just disagree where those story boundaries are. A few extra lines of dialogue could have made a V that was going with the Aldecaldos because they had to for the potential cure, but was looking forward to coming back to Night City. 'Can take the V out of Night City but can't take the Night City out of V' kind of deal. Alternatively you could have a few lines that make a Legend V looking forward to getting out of town the first chance they got because they hate all this gaudy pool-on-a-roof living. Nothing crazy, but that would give the player just a smidge more control. In my first ending playthrough, I felt like I was being straight up kidnapped by the plot.
And I think any customer is entitled to discuss what they did and didn't like about a product, promised or not. If I sit down at a restaurant and the menu is "1/4lb chicken sandwich and fries" and "1/4lb burger and fries", I'd expect the two to offer the same amount of fries. If I order chicken and my friend orders a burger, but they get a plate of fries with theirs and I get half that, I'll question it despite there not being a written promise they get the same amount of fries.
with sun ending you kind of do get this option with panam, you can lead the conversation such that your going to link up with panam when this is all over. You can also tell her its just one more job. With nomad though, I'm not sure. However, I think they plan to continue these endings, in which case you may get an opportunity to swap paths later. If they don't, then yeah, it would be nice be able to present at least the idea that you might go back to NC in star.
with sun ending you kind of do get this option with panam, you can lead the conversation such that your going to link up with panam when this is all over. You can also tell her its just one more job. With nomad though, I'm not sure. However, I think they plan to continue these endings, in which case you may get an opportunity to swap paths later. If they don't, then yeah, it would be nice be able to present at least the idea that you might go back to NC in star.
Any critique I have on it is just about how the endings are as-is. I agree they have the potential to make it up in future DLC, and if they make it work in DLC I'll sing their praises from the rooftops, I swear. Credit where credit is due, I think they created a really interesting premise and offered up characters people can care about, I just think they let them fall a little flat/left them unused and their endings had some things to be desired, namely a little more player agency and equal care to all flavors of V's potential sexuality.
Is an unwanted consequence to a choice (e.g. ask Panam for help --> become a nomad --> leave NC) an example of too less options and some hidden compulsion? Or is the desire to have the choices to get a perfect, individual story and ending an expectation of being a godlike entity in NC, who in consequence every NPC circles around?
Man I don't know what filter you have in your head that consistently turns "I think the endings force V to make choices that I should reasonably expect to have agency over that dissociates my ending V with the V I played the entire game" into "I WANT V TO BE A UNIVERSE CONTROLLING GOD" but it do be getting old.
Any critique I have on it is just about how the endings are as-is. I agree they have the potential to make it up in future DLC, and if they make it work in DLC I'll sing their praises from the rooftops, I swear. Credit where credit is due, I think they created a really interesting premise and offered up characters people can care about, I just think they let them fall a little flat/left them unused and their endings had some things to be desired, namely a little more player agency and equal care to all flavors of V's potential sexuality.
I have several things that frustrate me about this game and I really hate the endings, but I'd also like to reiterate that despite how vitriolic I am towards the game in this thread, I did like most of the time I spent with it.
Man I don't know what filter you have in your head that consistently turns "I think the endings force V to make choices that I should reasonably expect to have agency over that dissociates my ending V with the V I played the entire game" into "I WANT V TO BE A UNIVERSE CONTROLLING GOD" but it do be getting old.
You are still in the restaurant yelling at the waiter that you don't like your meal. It's getting old, too.
So maybe really go on or wait for the waiter to serve you another meal or at least bring you some more fries.
You are still in the restaurant yelling at the waiter that you don't like your meal. It's getting old, too.
So maybe really go on or wait for the waiter to serve you another meal or at least bring you some more fries.
You are still in the restaurant yelling at the waiter that you don't like your meal. It's getting old, too.
So maybe really go on or wait for the waiter to serve you another meal or at least bring you some more fries.
We’re discussing what we think went wrong and what could fix it in DLC, some people disagree and are talking it out with us by pointing out where they think it did things right but you seem to think we should just not talk at all?
And if it took months and months to bring out a new plate of fries I probably would talk with other people about it, just for fun.
I wouldn't say that there wasn't any complaining, there is much of it.
Question is: what is it good for anymore?
Will CDPR actually change any of the endings as they are right now?
Will they add one or some more other endings?
Will there be some DLC that will explain more, that will balance in some more player's flavours?
Probably none of us knows, we have to wait.
Funny thing is: with my post yesterday, where I firstly posted my assumption that some expected something very unusual (some are already tired of that since yesterday), I triggered some heavy reactions. But the question I asked in this post stays: was anything promised, from where is the expectation that the game will deliver endings that all players accept as fair? Since I wasn't part of the hype around that game I might have missed some CDPR statements.
