[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Restlessdingo32]

Yeah...only as @Ayinde_Palmer mentioned earlier, the space heist is only possible if BE's people loot Arasaka and not the nomads, so there might be even more plot holes that way Speaking of "fixing" the endings...

Spoiler: The Sun

V helps the Nomads (does the side-arc) but takes the Rogue/Johnny or secret ending pathway. The Nomads provide V with destination A, B and C outside NC as potential solutions to the 6 month problem via text/phone call.

V doesn't help the Nomads (does not do the side-arc). V meets Mr. Blue Eyes as normal.

In either case, instead of forcing V to accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes they can now choose to decline it.

Now V gets a choice. Option A, accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture into space. Option B, decline his offer, leave NC and track down the contacts provided by the Nomads. Option C, decline his offer, leave NC and go who knows where. In any case, LI's can remain in or leave NC with V depending on the LI. Fun.

To toss out example of that last part. Judy leaves with V or breaks it off if V goes to space. Panam waits for V if they go to space or breaks it off if they leave (since Nomads remain).

Spoiler: The Star

V raided Arasaka with the Nomads and, as a result, Arasaka is weakened. Mr. Blue Eyes acquired the intel and/or resources necessary for the space heist via exploiting the hole in Arasaka's armor, so to speak.

V is raiding the tower of a powerful Megacorp and throwing a wrench into their plans. Regardless of how you perform this feat the act itself is legendary. Thus, Mr. Blue Eyes contacts V via text/phone call and asks them to meet him at the Afterlife to hear his proposal.

V enlists the Nomads to raid Arasaka tower but wants to hear the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes. V Tells the Nomads to wait for them. V travels to the Afterlife to meet Mr. Blue Eyes and hear his proposal while the Nomads finish their preparations.

Option A, accept the offer by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture off to space. Option B, decline his offer, meet back with the Nomads as they finish their preparations and leave NC with them. LI considerations follow suit with the decision made by V here.

It's easy to shoehorn in a way for Mr. Blue Eyes to benefit from Arasaka getting knocked down a peg via the Nomads helping V. It makes zero sense raiding Arasaka with the Nomads is not considered legendary (it's freaking Arasaka). So Mr. Blue Eyes failing to recognize V's potential in the Star doesn't fit.

One need not stretch things far to work more options into the endings. The Suicide ending is the lone exception. I don't see a great deal to gain from adjusting the Temperence ending (Johnny gets body). Someone else can feel free to fuss with The Devil. If any of the above conflicts with the lore someone can feel free to slap me upside the head and correct it.

Expanding the endings this way plays out like a test question where you fill in the answer yourself. The way the endings are setup in the game plays out like a multiple choice test question with a handful of options. Except the question is presented as a riddle you must decipher before you can contemplate an answer.

 

[sacred_darling]

According to the Cyberpunk lore, the Nomad Nations are allied with StormTech, a corporation developing all kinds of things, including cyberware, weaponry, biotech, and nanotech, to name a few. They also have facilities in Crystal Palace.

So linking them with Mr. Blue Eyes and Crystal Palace is a possibility.

This is why I hate viewing things from the lore perspective, which can change any way you'd like

In this case, Nomads could pass (some of) the loot to StormTech, StormTech could hire BE to take charge of the Arasaka space heist, and now we have a sound reason for V to choose an ending with the Nomads, but then refuse to go with them, and still end up being contacted by Mr. BE a bit later.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2021

Spoiler: The Sun

V helps the Nomads (does the side-arc) but takes the Rogue/Johnny or secret ending pathway. The Nomads provide V with destination A, B and C outside NC as potential solutions to the 6 month problem via text/phone call.

V doesn't help the Nomads (does not do the side-arc). V meets Mr. Blue Eyes as normal.

In either case, instead of forcing V to accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes they can now choose to decline it.

Now V gets a choice. Option A, accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture into space. Option B, decline his offer, leave NC and track down the contacts provided by the Nomads. Option C, decline his offer, leave NC and go who knows where. In any case, LI's can remain in or leave NC with V depending on the LI. Fun.

To toss out example of that last part. Judy leaves with V or breaks it off if V goes to space. Panam waits for V if they go to space or breaks it off if they leave (since Nomads remain).

Spoiler: The Star

V raided Arasaka with the Nomads and, as a result, Arasaka is weakened. Mr. Blue Eyes acquired the intel and/or resources necessary for the space heist via exploiting the hole in Arasaka's armor, so to speak.

V is raiding the tower of a powerful Megacorp and throwing a wrench into their plans. Regardless of how you perform this feat the act itself is legendary. Thus, Mr. Blue Eyes contacts V via text/phone call and asks them to meet him at the Afterlife to hear his proposal.

V enlists the Nomads to raid Arasaka tower but wants to hear the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes. V Tells the Nomads to wait for them. V travels to the Afterlife to meet Mr. Blue Eyes and hear his proposal while the Nomads finish their preparations.

Option A, accept the offer by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture off to space. Option B, decline his offer, meet back with the Nomads as they finish their preparations and leave NC with them. LI considerations follow suit with the decision made by V here.

It's easy to shoehorn in a way for Mr. Blue Eyes to benefit from Arasaka getting knocked down a peg via the Nomads helping V. It makes zero sense raiding Arasaka with the Nomads is not considered legendary (it's freaking Arasaka). So Mr. Blue Eyes failing to recognize V's potential in the Star doesn't fit.

One need not stretch things far to work more options into the endings. The Suicide ending is the lone exception. I don't see a great deal to gain from adjusting the Temperence ending (Johnny gets body). Someone else can feel free to fuss with The Devil. If any of the above conflicts with the lore someone can feel free to slap me upside the head and correct it.

Expanding the endings this way plays out like a test question where you fill in the answer yourself. The way the endings are setup in the game plays out like a multiple choice test question with a handful of options. Except the question is presented as a riddle you must decipher before you can contemplate an answer.

This sounds good. Only for this (if they were planning such a DLC) they would need sort out how many side quests are required. The way they did, it's one side line = 1 separate ending, they don't mix between themselves. But the "spoiler part" sounds like a fun idea.

 

[AikoHayashi]

All I know after the Peralez quests and Gary the Prophet is that Mr Blue Eyes can lead V to another weird situation, but may help to save V's life

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

Spoiler: The Sun

V helps the Nomads (does the side-arc) but takes the Rogue/Johnny or secret ending pathway. The Nomads provide V with destination A, B and C outside NC as potential solutions to the 6 month problem via text/phone call.

V doesn't help the Nomads (does not do the side-arc). V meets Mr. Blue Eyes as normal.

In either case, instead of forcing V to accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes they can now choose to decline it.

Now V gets a choice. Option A, accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture into space. Option B, decline his offer, leave NC and track down the contacts provided by the Nomads. Option C, decline his offer, leave NC and go who knows where. In any case, LI's can remain in or leave NC with V depending on the LI. Fun.

To toss out example of that last part. Judy leaves with V or breaks it off if V goes to space. Panam waits for V if they go to space or breaks it off if they leave (since Nomads remain).

Spoiler: The Star

V raided Arasaka with the Nomads and, as a result, Arasaka is weakened. Mr. Blue Eyes acquired the intel and/or resources necessary for the space heist via exploiting the hole in Arasaka's armor, so to speak.

V is raiding the tower of a powerful Megacorp and throwing a wrench into their plans. Regardless of how you perform this feat the act itself is legendary. Thus, Mr. Blue Eyes contacts V via text/phone call and asks them to meet him at the Afterlife to hear his proposal.

V enlists the Nomads to raid Arasaka tower but wants to hear the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes. V Tells the Nomads to wait for them. V travels to the Afterlife to meet Mr. Blue Eyes and hear his proposal while the Nomads finish their preparations.

Option A, accept the offer by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture off to space. Option B, decline his offer, meet back with the Nomads as they finish their preparations and leave NC with them. LI considerations follow suit with the decision made by V here.

It's easy to shoehorn in a way for Mr. Blue Eyes to benefit from Arasaka getting knocked down a peg via the Nomads helping V. It makes zero sense raiding Arasaka with the Nomads is not considered legendary (it's freaking Arasaka). So Mr. Blue Eyes failing to recognize V's potential in the Star doesn't fit.

One need not stretch things far to work more options into the endings. The Suicide ending is the lone exception. I don't see a great deal to gain from adjusting the Temperence ending (Johnny gets body). Someone else can feel free to fuss with The Devil. If any of the above conflicts with the lore someone can feel free to slap me upside the head and correct it.

Expanding the endings this way plays out like a test question where you fill in the answer yourself. The way the endings are setup in the game plays out like a multiple choice test question with a handful of options. Except the question is presented as a riddle you must decipher before you can contemplate an answer.

Its fine, but basically you are saying they should rewrite the game to make the impact of player choice less exclusive. Which many many other players complain about. They feel the game should have more separation, and consequence for your decisions. They wanted a more drastic differences in the narrative. Its a common complaint that you can unlock all endings on a single playthrough.


regardless of that debate, it looks like you are more in the camp that the writing/lore/world should serve the player's desires/metagame rather than the player having to react to the world.

I'm not going to say thats wrong or right, but I think for cyberpunk, they probably feel that the world is not supposed to be easily controlled by the player (although it can be effected). Its not as heavily designed around a balanced game structure. Its more organic based on the world and the characters.

They seem to design the narrative around, how the world/charachters would react to the players choices, rather than what choices the player might want/game design might want. To me that choice throughout the game made the world feel realer and more compelling, even if it is frustrating some times.

I was watching someone play dragon age on twitch, and its obvious the writing, and characters were in service to the player's choices/game design, And it didnt make the narrative better to me.

 

[Buckadoz]

Spoiler: The Sun

V helps the Nomads (does the side-arc) but takes the Rogue/Johnny or secret ending pathway. The Nomads provide V with destination A, B and C outside NC as potential solutions to the 6 month problem via text/phone call.

V doesn't help the Nomads (does not do the side-arc). V meets Mr. Blue Eyes as normal.

In either case, instead of forcing V to accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes they can now choose to decline it.

Now V gets a choice. Option A, accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture into space. Option B, decline his offer, leave NC and track down the contacts provided by the Nomads. Option C, decline his offer, leave NC and go who knows where. In any case, LI's can remain in or leave NC with V depending on the LI. Fun.

To toss out example of that last part. Judy leaves with V or breaks it off if V goes to space. Panam waits for V if they go to space or breaks it off if they leave (since Nomads remain).

Spoiler: The Star

V raided Arasaka with the Nomads and, as a result, Arasaka is weakened. Mr. Blue Eyes acquired the intel and/or resources necessary for the space heist via exploiting the hole in Arasaka's armor, so to speak.

V is raiding the tower of a powerful Megacorp and throwing a wrench into their plans. Regardless of how you perform this feat the act itself is legendary. Thus, Mr. Blue Eyes contacts V via text/phone call and asks them to meet him at the Afterlife to hear his proposal.

V enlists the Nomads to raid Arasaka tower but wants to hear the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes. V Tells the Nomads to wait for them. V travels to the Afterlife to meet Mr. Blue Eyes and hear his proposal while the Nomads finish their preparations.

Option A, accept the offer by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture off to space. Option B, decline his offer, meet back with the Nomads as they finish their preparations and leave NC with them. LI considerations follow suit with the decision made by V here.

It's easy to shoehorn in a way for Mr. Blue Eyes to benefit from Arasaka getting knocked down a peg via the Nomads helping V. It makes zero sense raiding Arasaka with the Nomads is not considered legendary (it's freaking Arasaka). So Mr. Blue Eyes failing to recognize V's potential in the Star doesn't fit.

One need not stretch things far to work more options into the endings. The Suicide ending is the lone exception. I don't see a great deal to gain from adjusting the Temperence ending (Johnny gets body). Someone else can feel free to fuss with The Devil. If any of the above conflicts with the lore someone can feel free to slap me upside the head and correct it.

Expanding the endings this way plays out like a test question where you fill in the answer yourself. The way the endings are setup in the game plays out like a multiple choice test question with a handful of options. Except the question is presented as a riddle you must decipher before you can contemplate an answer.

I don't remember exactly why, but IIRC the Aldecaldos need the loot from the Arasaka raid to be able to leave NC for some reason, so they have to be a part of the ending for leaving to be an option without some way around that.

 

[theBlackDragon]

I don't remember exactly why, but IIRC the Aldecaldos need the loot from the Arasaka raid to be able to leave NC for some reason, so they have to be a part of the ending for leaving to be an option without some way around that.

To sell for money, because they're broke. Although I'm not sure if that really precludes them from leaving, might be a long term survival-of-the-family-thing too. Wouldn't be too hard to write around this issue though and have the Aldecaldos earn money some other way if V doesn't go this route.

Hell, if V gets as rich as is implied they could probably just outright pay for their help and solve two issues in one go...

 

[Balmung79]

All screenshots from Sun/Secret ending, with a romanced Panam and the Arasaka loot with Mr. BE & friends. First screenie when Panam says good bye, second and third from the credit's holo.
Aldecaldos incl. Panam will leave at least NC, what exactly the Badlands mean in this context stays open, could be the Badlands close around NC we know from the game, could be somewhere behind the Wall.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

regardless of that debate, it looks like you are more in the camp that the writing/lore/world should serve the player's desires/metagame rather than the player having to react to the world.

Hmm, I don't quite follow. Giving a player a choice under any circumstances is serving their desires. My V is a swashbuckling hero with big swords, wavy hair and the speed of a xenomorph so they can play into this role here or there. My V is a backstabbing lunatic so they can play this way. No matter what you're giving the player a way to play as they wish.

I'm not sure where the metagame comment comes from. Metagaming is when the player performs actions or behaves outside the role they've established for their character. A basic example would be utilizing knowledge the player knows when the character does not know about it.

I'm not going to say thats wrong or right, but I think for cyberpunk, they probably feel that the world is not supposed to be easily controlled by the player (although it can be effected). Its not as heavily designed around a balanced game structure. Its more organic based on the world and the characters.

They seem to design the narrative around, how the world/charachters would react to the players choices, rather than what choices the player might want/game design might want. To me that choice throughout the game made the world feel realer and more compelling, even if it is frustrating some times.

The reality is they provided a handful of pathways to alter the events after the point of no return. Most are "unlocked" by doing side content. Once you get there and pick which one you want you're locked into a completely narrative driven chain of events. Outside of a single choice in those pathways (cyberspace vs reality).

If you prefer a game do this then you're welcome to this opinion. I don't think it fits open world or choices and consequences based design. It makes little sense to tout choices and consequences, provide so many opportunities to involve them and not do so. Unless they screwed it up or their release date setters couldn't peg a horses ass with a bazooka while standing inches away from it.

I don't remember exactly why, but IIRC the Aldecaldos need the loot from the Arasaka raid to be able to leave NC for some reason, so they have to be a part of the ending for leaving to be an option without some way around that.

I think they did this because it fits the script for the Star ending. That's kind of the whole point.

Alter this tiny little detail in some fashion and, bam, more options. The Aldecaldos need the money to leave, great. V logically doesn't need the Aldecaldos to leave NC since they can leave the planet without them.

Hell, if V gets as rich as is implied they could probably just outright pay for their help and solve two issues in one go...

Aldecaldos want out of NC? Okay, lemme pawn some of these cars off, sell my vast collection of legendary hotpants and spend 5 hours crafting and we're good to go.

 

[OldManGamerOMG]

This is a one sided question. Some of us see some of these endings as happy endings. I for one, do, and I am certain that I am not alone in this. Not everything has to end with a house and white picket fence. This game is more than just an illusion of happiness, which never plays out as you imagine in your head. Life is far different.

Cyberpunk 2077 is more of a raw take on real life. Death comes for us all; and it is what you do with the time that you are alive that matters.

 

[Naglafar2183]

This is why I hate viewing things from the lore perspective, which can change any way you'd like

In this case, Nomads could pass (some of) the loot to StormTech, StormTech could hire BE to take charge of the Arasaka space heist, and now we have a sound reason for V to choose an ending with the Nomads, but then refuse to go with them, and still end up being contacted by Mr. BE a bit later.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2021

This sounds good. Only for this (if they were planning such a DLC) they would need sort out how many side quests are required. The way they did, it's one side line = 1 separate ending, they don't mix between themselves. But the "spoiler part" sounds like a fun idea.

The nomads are actually the ones that pushed for the nanotech/biotech and funded it for Stormtech 50 or so years ago. I think people think cyberpunk nomads are like mad max style bandits, but they are definitely not. The seven nations, especially Snake Nation, are a serious force, with a lot of resources and tech available to them, as well as a top notch logistical network. In the Star, the Aldecaldos are a pretty big deal now too, thanks to that Araska tech.

You could make the arguement that Panam still would have the resources to cure you even in the Sun, through the nomad's contacts but we are well into theorycrafting now. Maybe the Aldecaldos needed the Arasaka tech to actually reach someone that can help them, and that is why you can't go with them in the Sun?

Stormtech though, has offices on the Crystal Palace. Its really not a stretch at all to get to the Crystal Palace from the Star ending. No Mr Blue Eyes necessary, the Aldecaldos could easily know someone up there, or want to raid the office up there. I don't see Mr Blue Eyes ever working with Stormtech though he is either an AI from beyond the blackwall or he is Morgan Blackhand. Who knows what CDPR will do though.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2021

View attachment 11187244

View attachment 11187247View attachment 11187250
All screenshots from Sun/Secret ending, with a romanced Panam and the Arasaka loot with Mr. BE & friends. First screenie when Panam says good bye, second and third from the credit's holo.
Aldecaldos incl. Panam will leave at least NC, what exactly the Badlands mean in this context stays open, could be the Badlands close around NC we know from the game, could be somewhere behind the Wall.

I thought if you romanced her, you get a different message in the Sun. - She sounds sad, says she misses you but can't have it all, and if you ever get sick of the city, let her know, she will take you for a nice long ride. This is the non-romanced voicemail i believe.

 

[Martind_Forlon_]

... I've watched on youtube today the devil's ending, and even though it answered some of my questions/thoughts (especially what will happen if is Mikoshi not destroyed), it definitelly is not a ending which I would ever want for my V ... simply a big NO . Funny on this is, that I today started Corporate path and it imo was the best start and introduction into Night City. Shortened "movie" part with Jackie was fitting the best here too. This game definitelly is full of contrasts, on one side many unfinished things, on another are some very well thought, detailed and interesting. My personal ladder for starts and ends (from best to worst):

Start:

1. Corpo ... most interesting and imo the best introduction of Jackie. It also brings interesting small hints about how V appeared in NC (before joined arasaka intelligence)
2. Nomad ... is ok, but no more as this
3. Street Kid ... least interesting of all three starts, introduction of Jackie is weak.

Ending:

1. Nomad ... the best end with most positivity, V feels happy and she can have her love with her
2. Arasaka assault (either solo or with Rogue) ... have much more darkness, it simply feels very melancholic. V becomes legend, but she do not feel happy at all.
3. Corpo (side with Hanako) ... this ending is full of dark, most depressing, I'm not even sure if it should be not considered as the worst ending.
4. Suicide

 

[cyths]

It can’t get any worse.

CDPR: Hold my beer vodka.

 

[Kyrielle]

regardless of that debate, it looks like you are more in the camp that the writing/lore/world should serve the player's desires/metagame rather than the player having to react to the world.

I can think of several games out there (with dark endings!) that don't "serve the players desires" but still leave the majority of players with a sense of completion. Telltale's The Walking Dead Season One and The Last of Us Part One are both sad stories that don't allow for a lot of player agency, but they left me feeling like a whole, interesting story had been told, and while I wanted sequels, I would have been fine with ending the stories with those games. When I first finished CP2077, however, I was frustrated and annoyed, worried that either V was going disappear from any sequels, or we would have to continue to try to save ourselves throughout an entire second game. I can understand why CDPR might want to start fresh with a new protagonist, but I'd be very disappointed if they ended V's story this way, and I would be very hesitant to play another game as V where the main objective was yet again trying to find a cure for the Relic. It just wouldn't be an indication of good writing ahead, in my opinion.

 

[wright1978]

Spoiler: The Sun

V helps the Nomads (does the side-arc) but takes the Rogue/Johnny or secret ending pathway. The Nomads provide V with destination A, B and C outside NC as potential solutions to the 6 month problem via text/phone call.

V doesn't help the Nomads (does not do the side-arc). V meets Mr. Blue Eyes as normal.

In either case, instead of forcing V to accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes they can now choose to decline it.

Now V gets a choice. Option A, accept the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture into space. Option B, decline his offer, leave NC and track down the contacts provided by the Nomads. Option C, decline his offer, leave NC and go who knows where. In any case, LI's can remain in or leave NC with V depending on the LI. Fun.

To toss out example of that last part. Judy leaves with V or breaks it off if V goes to space. Panam waits for V if they go to space or breaks it off if they leave (since Nomads remain).

Spoiler: The Star

V raided Arasaka with the Nomads and, as a result, Arasaka is weakened. Mr. Blue Eyes acquired the intel and/or resources necessary for the space heist via exploiting the hole in Arasaka's armor, so to speak.

V is raiding the tower of a powerful Megacorp and throwing a wrench into their plans. Regardless of how you perform this feat the act itself is legendary. Thus, Mr. Blue Eyes contacts V via text/phone call and asks them to meet him at the Afterlife to hear his proposal.

V enlists the Nomads to raid Arasaka tower but wants to hear the proposal by Mr. Blue Eyes. V Tells the Nomads to wait for them. V travels to the Afterlife to meet Mr. Blue Eyes and hear his proposal while the Nomads finish their preparations.

Option A, accept the offer by Mr. Blue Eyes and venture off to space. Option B, decline his offer, meet back with the Nomads as they finish their preparations and leave NC with them. LI considerations follow suit with the decision made by V here.

Your scenario seems well thought out. It holds the basic character choice mechanics that i'd expect rather than the horrible railroaded mess where character choice has been binned off in favour of using a mission choice to rewrite V's personality that currently exists.

 

[GloriousRuse]

It's implied throughout the story that the Aldecados are all but out on their feet as of the start of the game. They left Arizona to try to get a fresh start in happy hunting grounds, but when you find them they're barely holding on to their patch of sand, being taken to the ropes by the Wraiths, and obviously there are serious debates about where they need to go as a family. The saner and more level headed leader (say what you will about Saul, but he's less off-the-handle all-in than Panam - who basically only survives because she has V the one merc army on her side) is at the point where selling out to biotechnica looks like the only option even as the hot bloods want to go the way of Geronimo, lashing out at the corps in what is likely to be a famous and ultimately futile act of rebellion.

The 'saka raid is the only option that really satisfies both camps. The hot bloods can get their lord of the plains on, AND there's actually enough money in it that this can revitalize the clan and isn't just one final act of glorious defiance before being ground up in the system.

 

[Soykaff]

Not everything has to end with a house and white picket fence.

No one is asking for this. All pro-happy endings people want is for V to live without a 6 months timer hanging over their heads. I don't think most people want or expect V's survival to come without a cost.

Cyberpunk 2077 is more of a raw take on real life. Death comes for us all; and it is what you do with the time that you are alive that matters.

It's great that you took away something positive from the endings. But a lot of us didn't. Making the best out of the time you're given is a good message and it would have worked well if V wasn't so desperate to survive.

 

[OldManGamerOMG]

No one is asking for this. All pro-happy endings people want is for V to live without a 6 months timer hanging over their heads. I don't think most people want or expect V's survival to come without a cost.


It's great that you took away something positive from the endings. But a lot of us didn't. Making the best out of the time you're given is a good message and it would have worked well if V wasn't so desperate to survive.

You make sense, until you look at the other options. You have control of V, and doing so, you can change that dialogue. He can be desperate to live, if you play it that way. V can also be different. Your argument is not wrong, but shows that you only played it that way.

My first play through was like this, and I went off into the sunset with Panam. Yes, there is only a glimmer of hope he will survive, but at least he gets to roam the land and scavenge with the rest of his new family. I saw this as a sad and depressing ending.

The next play through, I chose dialogue about being something more, instead anything to survive. The story is than very different in that context. Fitting that play style of that, I ended up doing a space mission as the final moments, for Mr Blue Eyes, targeting the Crystal Palace. This was a happy ending for me. There is also a hint that this could lead to something that can save V, if he succeeds. There is also a hint that he will join Panam after this mission, success or not, if he lives. This was a happy ending in my opinion.

The ending where he goes to Arasaka, based on dialogue, there are three ways that can go. You can go back to Earth, be with Panam, with an unknown if you will die or not, possibly been fixed at the cost of your ability to use your brain. You can go into the soul prison. The other is based on dialogue, options easily missed, makes a hint that you have been in the soul prison all along, since the raid on Arasaka tower.

The other choice of giving your body to Johnny are all happy endings in my opinion. Based on the many side quests, you get to play with the idea of what is life. Is Johnny alive? Is a construct living. My take on those missions, is that V died with the actions Alt has taken. Alt basically states this in the end dialogue, but further hints at this if you ask her what she thinks you should do. Johnny, on the other hand, can continue in that body, unlike the new V.

The suicide ending is, well, short and final.

The secret ending is awesome, as no one dies, and you get to make your options, and you end up with the Crystal Palace mission.. In my opinion, this is the best ending.

In all, it is perspective, and the problem is trying to see your perspective as the only one, when a story is the vision of the author. You have to displace yourself enough to see from their perspective, or you will just feel at odds, no matter what they give you.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

I can think of several games out there (with dark endings!) that don't "serve the players desires" but still leave the majority of players with a sense of completion. Telltale's The Walking Dead Season One and The Last of Us Part One are both sad stories that don't allow for a lot of player agency, but they left me feeling like a whole, interesting story had been told, and while I wanted sequels, I would have been fine with ending the stories with those games. When I first finished CP2077, however, I was frustrated and annoyed, worried that either V was going disappear from any sequels, or we would have to continue to try to save ourselves throughout an entire second game. I can understand why CDPR might want to start fresh with a new protagonist, but I'd be very disappointed if they ended V's story this way, and I would be very hesitant to play another game as V where the main objective was yet again trying to find a cure for the Relic. It just wouldn't be an indication of good writing ahead, in my opinion.

I'm not talking about good or bad endings, I'm talking about a game design choice, where the world/story is primarily designed to around game design/the narrative is created to adapt to the player.

an example of a game design situation, might be writing two different narratives for what happens if a player makes a choice, rather than just ending the narrative. Giving the player two equal content paths is better for game design balance, but might be worse in terms of logic/lore/story. Sometimes a choice would just end that thread. Its basically a top down method of writing vs a bottom up method.

The narrative/world that adapts to the player, might be like... say if Judy stays or leaves because V stays or leaves. Or if yorinobu only executed his plans when V is involved. Or if there's character's strategically placed for exposition that wouldn't logically be there.

its not to say those are wrong choices, they have advantages and disadvantages. However, overall, I found this game's world, characters, and lore very compelling, and that was probably in part due to making some of those decisions where consistent characters, or world, was put ahead of those other considerations.

That said, it does sacrifice some things. Maybe they could balance it differently and still succeed narratively. But if an artist makes an overall strong piece of work, I won't question their direction. much.

 

[Buckadoz]

My first play through was like this, and I went off into the sunset with Panam.

I love that this is always the route it goes down.

"The game is GRIMDARK it's not supposed to have super happy endings where you get to live you wildest fantasies!"
"Ok, what ending did you get?"
"Oh I romanced the incredibly loyal chick who's great with cars and has a fat ass and we, almost as literally as possible, rode off into the sunset."
"..."

 

[Kyrielle]

I'm not talking about good or bad endings, I'm talking about a game design choice, where the world/story is primarily designed to around game design/the narrative is created to adapt to the player.

an example of a game design situation, might be writing two different narratives for what happens if a player makes a choice, rather than just ending the narrative. Giving the player two equal content paths is better for game design balance, but might be worse in terms of logic/lore/story. Sometimes a choice would just end that thread. Its basically a top down method of writing vs a bottom up method.

The narrative/world that adapts to the player, might be like... say if Judy stays or leaves because V stays or leaves. Or if yorinobu only executed his plans when V is involved. Or if there's character's strategically placed for exposition that wouldn't logically be there.

its not to say those are wrong choices, they have advantages and disadvantages. However, overall, I found this game's world, characters, and lore very compelling, and that was probably in part due to making some of those decisions where consistent characters, or world, was put ahead of those other considerations.

That said, it does sacrifice some things. Maybe they could balance it differently and still succeed narratively. But if an artist makes an overall strong piece of work, I won't question their direction. much.

The two examples I gave are not RPGs, so they definitely have fixed narratives. I just have endings on the brain, lol, so I had to go back to those. I understand what you're saying though, I just think most people didn't expect this game to be a fixed narrative, and wanted more of a "Bioware style" RPG experience (which, imo, hasn't been a traditional RPG experience for a long time, but that's for another topic).

I definitely see why it makes sense for Judy to leave Night City no matter what. That's her character arc. But it would be nice to be able to say to her in the Sun ending, "hey, I love you and I understand why you want out, please wait for me until this gig is over and we can hit the road together" or something like that. Maybe it's not going to actually happen, for whatever reason, but it would give the option for a more hopeful ending than what we get there right now. And it's not changing Judy's character for V to ask that of her, even if she can't wait.

Honestly, I think what it comes down to is that there is so little choice in the rest of the game, that we've been focusing on the illusion of choice in the endings and how unsatisfying they can be for some people.