Could have been the main ending without the 6 months. Where it's unknow if it is a real V or not. Could have expanded that into a sequel or even DLC. Trying to figure out questions what is soul, life and other similar stuff.
Sure, that's the story you connected most with. Except the V you were playing, the V that had those experiences, dies alone and forgotten as soon as Soulkiller hits. That's the end of that V's existence. The V that gets put back in the body is a construct copy that thinks it's you. You are dead before you ever see Panam or the Nomads again, and everything that happens after that is just seeing what the construct does with your body.I think it's the most organic ending, in terms of how the story plays out. But let's be honest, none of these endings are particularly hopeful.
I latched onto that ending because it's the story I connected with instantly during the game. But I would like to go back and play through a different life path a second time, which seems a bit pointless if I have to take the Nomads to continue
*EDIT* I think how much effort CDPR are willing to put into the issue will determine how varied and inclusive any ending continuations will be. I'd like to hope we can all get and ending we can continue with, no matter our life path.
Any DLC that expands on this ending to find a cure is not hopeful. It is more depressing than any of the current endings.
As i wrote some posts ago, this would have been a good way to expand upon soulkiller and are you reallly are you or jsut an empy vessel.
Wait, she really dies? I was hoping if I am less friendly with Johnny Headinmyownass, I will be able to save her! Damn, that's a shame. Oh well, back to the game I go!
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But to be serious, yeah, this is a power-fantasy, if you are aware of that fact when you start the game, I don't see whoy there could not be an option like that. As TB said options are always good.
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But to be serious, yeah, this is a power-fantasy, if you are aware of that fact when you start the game, I don't see whoy there could not be an option like that. As TB said options are always good.
Thoought myself that aswell, but no matter what you do, V dies.Wait, she really dies? I was hoping if I am less friendly with Johnny Headinmyownass, I will be able to save her! Damn, that's a shame. Oh well, back to the game I go!
One thing I felt sad about (although I may not have unlocked the best option with her romance) is that she never actually said I love you in any form, or expressed that we are a couple. She never refers to us as an item later, in the epilogue. Did I just not unlocked the full 'couple' option, or that's the only way it is?
Btw in my first play-through, she said to me 'the beginning of something nice', not amazing, as it was in the romance guide.
Btw in my first play-through, she said to me 'the beginning of something nice', not amazing, as it was in the romance guide.
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I understand it in terms of continuity, it even fits in with the whole atmosphere of the universe, like nothing changed, nothing became any better, no matter what you did, I just wish there would be a proper happy ending.
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I also do not understand cdprred they show completely different endings, 2 of them give hints of continuation, the ending with nomads in general is so amazing that I shudder every time, and not because this is the only ending where your lover will be with you, but because of the level of setting the scene, music, dialogues, characters ' faces, everything is so lively, to goosebumps, other endings did not personally make such an impression on me, so the question to cdprred did you plan in advance to make it so that at first everyone was sitting in depression, with a small chance to save the main character that you gave in 2 endings, which would then blow up in the dlc and sledtsyuschih parts, if not, i do not understand why to create such living and spelled out characters, build relationships with them, if it all leads to nowhere, i pray to you that you would continue the story of the character, then despite all the bugs and an empty world, this will become my favorite game, and even now the ending with aldekaldos, caused me emotions that could not cause any game
Their decision to aproach V conclusion is really weird, kinda sadistic if you ask me. Didn't they think that a lot of us wants an ending where V lives, without any "if" and no set timer? Can't wrap my head around these decisions.
Feels like you fell from a roof, broke your legs, but you see a medkit a few hundred meters away, so you crawl, through pain, suffering and when you finally reach it, it has only a rusty saw.
They only let you choose things if that doesn't change the end of the game.
If there were no such if, then the endings would not cause such emotions, the only question is on which line the studio will continue the character's line
If they ever thinking of continuing it in the first place.
But surely that construct copy, just like Johnny's, will have all V's memories and emotions? Or is that a no no too?
It's confusing, because if it is a case of carrying V's memories and emotions, you would have the same connection with your romance and the Aldecaldos, but you would be copy V waiting to see how your 'new' body reacts.
If not and its just no ability for anything but thinking, no feelings or emotions, no bonds or romances, then yeah that is utterly depressing.
Soulkiller of arasaka, quite takes your mind to construct it and privina why your brain is burned, zhto, you can understand the process of the game and if you listen carefully and pay attention in the end, the more you think Saburo arasaka would trust its copy of the management company or family, of course not, he wanted eternal life for himself and not copy with the memories, the more we all game to see what happens with V from his face, he first got into micosi, then viola offers a return to the body, I for conclusion
but still i think this is an understatement of the developers
Due to the 25000 character limit, I had to split the summary in more posts. Here's the continuation:
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@BGM45 and @Simuxas expect that as more and more people finish the game in spite of performance problems and game-breaking bugs, more people will voice their insatisfaction with the current state of the story.
@AKANexus says that the only thing that prevented them from reading the Nomad ending as the "good ending" was the "6 months to live", stating that added nothing to the development of the character
@GreyRaconteur exemplifies how a sad ending mustn't necessarily mean death to the main character, citing Spec Ops The Line, where Walker, the protagonist, can choose to survive and wait for rescue while bearing the guilt and weight of his actions, potentially being worse than suicide by marines or shooting himself.
@Kikinho, @Melra and @Buckadoz all agree there'd a plot hole when Alt says Soulkiller will kill him, and V replies with "Yeah, we got a plan now!". V simply ignores the fact that Alt explicitly states that is not a good outcome. As @Buckadoz states, it would be akin to have a brain cancer tumor, and someone come and say "We can vaporize your whole brain, that will kill the tumor", and replying with "As long as it saves me, I'm in".
@GreyRaconteur asks for someone to summarise this topic. [There you go!]
@hismastersvoice says whether Ctrl+V is V depends on whether you perceive V's engrams as the essence of V
@kaz_ds says that "There are ways to make something feel hopeless and emotional without disregarding absolutely everything you did"
@Cologan reminds us that even on a grim universe as Warhammer 40K's there is light at the end of the tunnel.
@Nefla is disappointed that "nothing we do matters and we just die regardless. In a supposedly choice based game it feels cheap."
@brokensaintvxvx states that there are many games about terminal ilnessess and death, citing Pyre, Beyond Eyes, Alan Wake, Hellblade, That Dragon Cancer and Deus Ex as examples. They say the point of CP2077 story is "to make due with every, single step. To carve out some means to be remembered. All of the characters surrounding you tell you this, from Jackie, Viktor, Dexter DeShawn, Misty, even Rogue, and Johnny. V says to Viktor, that he seems like he's the only person who seems happy with his lot in life, and Viktor replies that its because he's lived long enough for everyone to leave him alone. "
@kaz_ds points what they call plot holes that force V to die anyway, citing that while Johnny's construct can override V's body and live forever while not having a similar phenotype, why can't V's construct override another body? They also suggests the plot about Saburo using his son's body was inserted just to write away reasons for saving V. They state they have the creator, the blueprints and two proofs that it works, so why wouldn't it work with V?
@guerbo says they lost all the motivation for another playthrough, or even go back to before the point of no return, after seeing the other endings, and state that the main mission was too short
@AKANexus says CDPR advertised the game as "make your own path" and compares the current game to multiple paths you can take to a city, yet, they all lead to the same border crossing where you have to declare which end you want to see.
@GreyRaconteur says that having V killed at the end of The Heist and eventually finding out you are just a copy of V would feel somewhat better, because you wouldn't be as commited to V yet when you found out about that.
@Nefla complains that they believed the Heist's outcome could be affected, as marketed, yet they were like "dammit, that stupid trailer is canon" when they understood Jackie cannot be saved at all
@Notserious80 wonders why V didn't use not even one of the hundreds of instaheal packs on Jackie while he was dying. They also wonder why, while you are at the bathroom, you hear Dex making arrangements for 1 seat shuttle, making it obivous you wouldn't leave there alive, yet giving no chance to fight back.
@BGM45 points another choice that didn't matter for them - ratting out Evelyn's offer to Dex or not. 40% of nothing is still nothing.
@kaz_ds says "Even the Panam ending with a family and friends means nothing because you never even get to see it. ", and states that "endings seem to have been constructed as "V needs to die we need to do everything in our hands to shoe horn that in, regardless of story inconsistencies." "
@EnderBeta says although "It's not the destination but the journey that matters" and "Just because V dies doesn't mean that V doesn't matter as a character.", " it seems to me if the universe has so much biotech they could easily have a mechanical body that is passable as human that they could have transferred V's personality too. "
@MeinChurro says "They somehow make the suicide ending the most appealing - it's insane."
@Simuxas, as well as many others, says they would be much happier with a simple statement from CDPR that they are going to work on this
@Motsie quotes the investors meeting transcript in which, when questioned about the player's feedback, Marcin Iwiński focuses the answer only on performance and bugs/glitches feedback, stating "in general PC gamers are enjoying the game a lot and we see very positive comments [on their streams]", as pointed out by @RayBotty
@MandyZGaming asks for an ending where you don't get sent back to the point of no return. Instead provide them with an open space to interact with romances, jobs, gigs, etc.
@Kyrus reminds us about the build up to Mass Effect final entry on the trilogy, and the infamous result
@Notserious80 and @MeinChurro can't believe how a company like CDPR, that has written an RPG as good as Witcher 3 could forget how to create a story with choices and consequences.
@GreyRaconteur and @MeinChurro thinks youtubers' reviews artificially inflate the game quality, calling it "the RPG of the decade" in spite of the story, bugs and performance issues.
@Nekatinyz points out the fact V has no chance of survival devalues the plot, as most players will not return to the game. They also state that "no matter how cool it is, it is a fact that the majority of people like good endings and this is the main incentive to try the game or wait for dlc."
@vahouth compares the biochip construct situation with Altered Carbon's The Stack premise, while @Nekatinyz points out that even then it saves the life of the main character
@eriberri expects that as console players get a more stable version of the game that allows them to actually experience the endings themselves, we'll have such a large playerbase unsatisfied with the game that "will probably make the uproar we got with the ME3 endings seem insignificant."
@BGM45 expertly points out that cyberpunk "really is a masterpiece of immersion because it made several of us go and read through real corpo talk by a company trying to weasel their way out of the problems their terrible management caused. bravo." when referring to the investors meeting manuscript
@MeinChurro and @MandyZGaming both agree the game is more centred around Silverhand rather than V. They say the story is actually about Silverhand and the game railroads the player into the original ending the writers expected. @MeinChurro even ends his post saying "[They] wish we could all just stop talking about JOHNNY SILVERHAND. God [they] are sick and tired of that guy. ", while @RayBotty compares the whole story to a "fanfiction written by one of the devs back in the day when they used to play CP2020. "
@Simuxas points out they missed a great opportunity by having an ending where V survives. As they put, "Everyone were waiting a long time for this game. If they managed to give us some more nicer endings game would have a lot of replayability in itself alone. ", stating that CDPR "could support game for 5-10 years with these kind of expansions. It would bring so much money for company. "
@BlackHawkV "still can't belive someone looked at that and says "Yes that is exactly what we need right now in time of global crysis; a game people were waiting for for years that gives them the chance to kill of their character in 7 different ways in the end and no chance to save them." ", while @Rqin_ agree with them, stating "2020 has been shit, why putting such sad endings?", while pointing out that "a miracle exit, something to save you, and put this ending that almost feels like a god damn cliffhanger to a happy one [is] but high hopes, [they] doubt they'd go that far... "
@eriberri thinks if Silverhand was supposed to be to CP2077 what Geralt was to The Witcher, then the V character shouldn't even be created, as "what player would enjoy just being the pawn, the vessel, for someone else's scheme?". They also say that "it's also a sure-fire way to make people dislike Johnny, which is stupid and probably in direct contrast with CDPR's worship of the character. "
@DeeP_FOCus notes how they built a strong connection to their V (as many other did) and expects/wishes/guesses at least a DLC "that continues V's story and introduces a happy ending option (V recovers). ", and that "
Leaving V's story like this is brutal and unacceptable in [their] opinion."
@Simuxas says the tarot card percentages on the character menu mean nothing at all for the plot
@MeinChurro, @eriberri and @BGM45 agree that Silverhand borderline abuses the player, and, that the effect Silverhand might have on people who grew around abuse, has been, or is being abused can be dangerous to the player themselves.
@eriberri wonders if getting Reeves to play Silverhand was a ploy to sway players to actually try and like the Silverhand character in spite of him being a hateful character because Reeves is one of the most liked and cared for actor, and states "[they]'re pretty sure CDPR did not bank on people hating the endings - and Johnny - quite as much as they did."
@Kikinho says "[they]'d trade the game for a buggier version 100% if it meant [they] get to conclude the story with my V is a satisfying fashion and get to enjoy the city taken place after the story.
@Retro-_- would like to believe during the 6 months V has with Panam, they might eventually find a cure, while @Simuxas wishes they dropped the "6 months" debacle and focused more on whether the person that survives is V or Ctrl+V. @Retro-_- also states that "Alt tacking a finite time on seems a little pointless if we don't get to play that time, doesn't really add anything to the narrative "
@GreyRaconteur points out that the only person who would actually have that doubt is you. To everyone else, they wouldn't be the wiser, and @Buckadoz builds upon this, saying "you wouldn't know it, because you would be dead".
@thewarsend says that CDPR misunderstood the cyberpunk genre, stating that "Cyberpunk isn't about being a hero, it is about surviving, but in CP77 even that option has taken away from us. Each romance ends badly, each story has a dark end to it and each ending in turn is terrible. It didn't need to be this way, in a role playing game there should have been the possibility for a decent enough ending. ". They also point out that even in CP2020 pen and paper RPG survival is a possibility at least. Difficult, yet not impossible.
While @MeinChurro says "Great game ruined by the ending", @Silariell says the game wasn't even that great, using the Jackie's inevitable death, Dex inevitable death and the Relic's inevitable acceptance. They point out, once again that any choice made during Act 1 are fake choices because "every single character involved in act 1 dies and/or becomes irrelevant"
@kaz_ds says that mid-game DLC before the ending would make little sense, as going around the city doing gigs as you cough out your lungs undermines the whole point of the time rush.
@Retro-_- and @Silariell compare the biochip to the "MacGuffin trope" - An item whose power, when questioned within the ruleset of the world, has no answers for why it works this way but not that way, when 'that' way would basically solve everything.
@thewarsend says they think CDPR copied terrible design choices from other developers. The false sense of urgency from Fallout 4, the horrible endings from Mass Effect 3, the faux-mmo feeling or Dragon Age Inquisition and the roleplaying choice system from Telltale Games.
@Retro-_- @MeinChurro and @Simuxas all agree that mid-story DLC would only work if it added alternative endings, otherwise post-game DLC would only work if CDPR canonized Panam ending.
@Retro-_- and @thewarsend point out the motto used on cyberpunk themes, "You can't save the world, only yourself" was thrown out the window with CP2077.
@lethalnoodle thinks the Panam ending filled them with hope, as V says "We'll find a way. We'll get out of here. And then we will go meet your contacts.". They say they are very happy with all the endings, because, despite some absolutely destroying them, "If a videogame can make you go through emotions that's an amazing feat. It meant that you really cared. "
@Buckadoz says that since the game blows past the real V vs Ctrl+V Soulkiller debacle, most people discussing here also disregard that situation and simply accept Panam's ending as "the one where V survives", pointing out the Reddit community is also following the same path
@MeinChurro Brings up Farscape which was a damn good series and it made me add it to my "To watch" list on Netflix again.
It had Claudia Black and Ben Browder way before their Stargate era, and earns MeinChurro a personal point from me.@Silakai suggests another ending to the story with no "depressing tragedy crap", stating that RPGs should always have different endings. Good endings for people who hate tragedy and tragic endings for those who like it.
@AKANexus skims the whole thread to summarise what has been discussed so far, and reads though 35 pages of content to create this beeeeeautiful summary post for new comers to skip over 1k posts and join the chat from the get go.
@Nekatinyz points out the game tells us more or less about its principle of operation, working on a cut-and-paste principle. When we, as the player, wake up in Cyberspace it is still the same V, and that is why the soulkiller burns the brain - first it copies the mind, then it transfer the consciousness.
@Simuxas agrees with @djisma69 that the tarot card percentages mean zilch.
@Chibako_NuggetShib offers some suggestions on DLC content.
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That's the summary up to page 60. I believe that's enough for now.
Please, if you think I misread something you posted, or think something has been omitted from your post, do tell me so I can edit it and make it right. We need this summary to be precise, yet concise for new comers not to get lost, and easily join the conversation.
And that lack of confirmation, though quite insignificant and totally virtual, also had a massive impact. Like a little 'I love you' or something to cement leaves the whole romances feeling a little unfinished too.
Honestly, they really messed up with that ending, Alt should have said nothing about what soulkiller does and taht you die after 6 months. Shoulda just kept it like that, where players could interpret, if that is V or a copy of V, their way. Ending it with a question, keeping us thinking.
They want to pretend that there's lots of options and plenty of choices.
In reality, they had to have all the players meet in one mission which is "meet Hanako at Embers" and then take everyone to the end. I'm just surprised that they're all so predictable: Boss fight, check, bro talk with Keanu, check, suicide option, check, spaceship option, check, virtual reality option, check, death from cancer option, check.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with being pessimistic, but not one ending where he lives? Why not give the option of being mind-wiped and left in one of three places as a game plus mode? Just a thought, LOL
Just hit me another idea, why there was no ending with Alt where alt says that they can fix you up, fix the brain with cybernetic machinery, remove the chip, but that would wipe out all of the memory from you with everything that happened after you inserted the chip. V would live, but had no memory of friend and loved ones that you made during gameplay. Then after returnign to city you get more sidequests where your friends/lovers gives quests that tries and help you return memory and relations with them and depending on choices you could return memories or maybe not.They want to pretend that there's lots of options and plenty of choices.
In reality, they had to have all the players meet in one mission which is "meet Hanako at Embers" and then take everyone to the end. I'm just surprised that they're all so predictable: Boss fight, check, bro talk with Keanu, check, suicide option, check, spaceship option, check, virtual reality option, check, death from cancer option, check.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with being pessimistic, but not one ending where he lives? Why not give the option of being mind-wiped and left in one of three places as a game plus mode? Just a thought, LOL
That would be another bittersweet ending where you live but sacrifice your memories.
Oh my god YES. This bothered me so much, there should have been one ending where we get into Mikoshi, and (if you played nice with Johnny till that point) both Johnny and V say fuck this we are both gonna live and merge into one being. I wonder if they are planning this for a DLC or expansion?
The endings are poor at best but additionally, the endings leave nothing more for you. In the rather short time it takes to play through, you meet many brilliant characters, form bonds and romances. And not long after experiencing all this, we just lose it all. I'm in no doubt the only way this game makes headway is if we get back the gameplay time that has obviously been removed, in the sense we aren't limited by the main story on how much we can experience or for how long.They want to pretend that there's lots of options and plenty of choices.
In reality, they had to have all the players meet in one mission which is "meet Hanako at Embers" and then take everyone to the end. I'm just surprised that they're all so predictable: Boss fight, check, bro talk with Keanu, check, suicide option, check, spaceship option, check, virtual reality option, check, death from cancer option, check.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with being pessimistic, but not one ending where he lives? Why not give the option of being mind-wiped and left in one of three places as a game plus mode? Just a thought, LOL
How that can be achieved is the next challenge, but as this thread shows, there are absolutely loads of possibilities.
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In the game's current state, with very little meaningful interaction outside of the main story, that would be the equivalent of playing through a second time.