[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[CasperTheGhost]

for the last day or so i've been playing the post game save, where you're dropped back to the point of no return with your endgame trinket, i've got very little to do as i've completed most of everything before starting the end game. so i've mostly been finishing the few ncpd snippets that i left scattered around, i've basically ran out of things to try my guns on.

 

[cyths]

Do they read here at all?

 

[acakomandos]

for the last day or so i've been playing the post game save, where you're dropped back to the point of no return with your endgame trinket, i've got very little to do as i've completed most of everything before starting the end game. so i've mostly been finishing the few ncpd snippets that i left scattered around, i've basically ran out of things to try my guns on.

Wrong thread dude

 

[StarkHelsing]

So, well, might as well read all there is in wiki, purchase tabletop guide lines. Check all what Pondsmith has to say.

Wont change the fact, that Cyberpunk world is ruled by CORPOs. Standing up to CORPOs never ends good to anyone. Well, even ones that have nothing to do with CORPOs, like Takemura or any other people that live in slums of any city, will get rekt by CORPOs if so they wish. People with doll chips - are run over by pawns of CORPOs. Very minor set of people have even a chance at better life. Like sister of a food vendor - and they get a "warm" treatment from neighbours. CORPOs can kill people without any CORPO protection without any repercussions. And nothing there to be done. While CORPOs themselves are working to death to stay in position they already have and go over the top to get better.

V - tried to go on toes with Arasaka - and here we are, claiming that V, and we, as players, are heroes because Pondsmith said so.

What V does - fights for survival and revenge(if it can even be considered revenge since that is unattainable for V in any fully meaningful way that will impact Night City by players actions) by going on spree of disabling or killing other people. Doing things necessary to get power and money while finding a way to survive. So for whom is he exactly fighting? He has no family, not even a mention of them. His friends are Vik, Misty, possibly Padre(more of a guy to do biz with) and Jackie(can consider his mom as well). No one of them, outside of Jackie have anything they need V to fight for them. They are pretty much set, doing what they want to and doing fine, V or without V. Only new friends or love interests can be considered a new family that will actually fight for V and not the other way around. And die as well if player takes them on a last mission. While player can just skip all love interests/friendly interactions or even go full solo.

So here we go again. Cyberpunk world is a place run by CORPOs, they win - you lose. Always. You can be considered a hero for trying to stand up. But like any other revolution, one person is not enough. Even group of people wont be enough. You can even think of Johnny as a wicked version of William Wallace from Brave Heart. Failed one as well. So try again telling that Cyberpunk is just about characters as heroes because that is only part of is going on

See, you do this sort of story in books and films. You don't do it in a supposed RPG where you're supposedly given a choice and told these choices matter. Because if this is what they were going for, then ultimately there isn't even an illusion of choice.

Picking how you die, is not exactly the RPG choice wheel. It's all the same ending, with slight flourishes, but it's all the same.

 

[jahkin]

Exactly; right now the way things stand the only narrative I'm getting from the story is this. 'Don't bother, you achieve nothing and all you bring is death, destruction and inevitable pain.'

If they're trying to sell me a story of depression and how you can't win against the 'house' they're slowly achieving it.

End: "So, you will die in six months, V!"

V: "Uh, didn't Victor already told me that when I woke up after crawling our from the dumpster? Is this some matrix-glitch-shit or something?"

End: "No! It is peak RPG-Storytelling for the new millenium! Plagues, moronic presidents, Altered Carbon cancelled! Nobody wants to see you getting to live, V! But don't worry, we'll add a DLC to expand on your ending!"

V: "Uh, sounds great...?"

End: "YES! 3 additional minutes of a slideshow showing you slowly but surely making the best out of your six months! We even hired your voice actress again, for only she can realyl sell the agony, and fear of death, and hopelessness you will experience these six months as the clock's ticking!"

V: "This deal getting worse all the time ... "

End: "Indeed! We even have scenes of your potential loved ones, watching you as your brain detoriates! So much fun to make the best of six months and live life to its fullest! We even added a scene of all your friends at your funeral, V! Of course, with only first person view, all you will see is a dark black screen, though you maybe hear the dirt and soil hitting your casket!"

V: "Wow...if only I had taken that boring job at the supermarket ..."

End: "Too late, dearest V! And YOU players, don't forget to buy our next big game in 12 years!"

 

[Hammerstein]

The thing I really don't like about some of the endings is the lack of permutations. They give you two options while in Mikoshi, V keeps the body, or Johnny keeps the body. The latter triggers 'A New Dawn' regardless of the path you took to get there.

The kicker is that this is 1 of 2 possible permutation - the other being Arasaka and whether you return to earth or enter Mikoshi. I can't do the secret ending and leave Nightcity with the Aldecaldos. I'm locked into the 'Nightcity legend' ending. I can't do the Aldecaldo ending and remain in Nightcity, betraying the trust of the Aldecaldos after they helped me. I can't do the Rogue/Johnny ending and decide to leave with the Aldecaldos, etc.

There's zero agency in act 3 because you just pick a mostly linear path and that's the end. It's so unimaginative.

Sadly so. The game gives you an illusion of choice, by saying "You do thing X, you will receive reward Y", like "Do this, you will be saved".

So the game journal sells you this mission outcome as the ultimate truth and also offers no alternative paths. And when you do the game's bidding and accomplish the tasks, the game suddenly changes the rules.

What was promised to save you, can no longer save you. What was promised to grant you life, now grants you death.

For now I really cannot remember any other RPGs that changed the rules on the fly and cheated the player with bogus mission descriptions. Except maybe Mass Effect 3. But in ME 3 you at least save your buddies and change the fate of the galaxy.

 

[acakomandos]

Do they read here at all?

I asked that few times. I got answers like yeah they do, but notfing will change if there is not enough people to voice opinion. I saw also few people said they do something, and few that they never change main game...the only thing that we can hope for is their response. But again they are having many,many issues with consoles and bugs so I dont have much hope we will see any statment form them

 

[StarkHelsing]

Sadly so. The game gives you an illusion of choice, by saying "You do thing X, you will receive reward Y", like "Do this, you will be saved".

So the game journal sells you this mission outcome as the ultimate truth and also offers no alternative paths. And when you do the game's bidding and accomplish the tasks, the game suddenly changes the rules.

What was promised to save you, can no longer save you. What was promised to grant you life, now grants you death.

For now I really cannot remember any other RPGs that changed the rules on the fly and cheated the player with bogus mission descriptions. Except maybe Mass Effect 3. But in ME 3 you at least save your buddies and change the fate of the galaxy.

Not even Mass Effect 3. At least in Mass Effect 3 if I put effort into it I could actually survive the last battle. We don't get diddly poop for doing all the quests and making connections in Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[ddz1rt]

It boils down to this, for a game that is built upon survival, where you the player are fighting hard because you're under the impression that you need to survive, the fact that you can't is a failure to some. You're geared up to fail. It goes against the whole journey, the reasoning behind it all.

Why sell me a game where the baseline of the plot is to 'survive' but in reality, I can't? And not because I didn't try hard enough, or didn't give it my all. But because the game refuses to reward me - the player - for my effort.

Well, imagine one has a cancer, he gives his all, does everything he can. Gets best medical treatment - end result - remains the same. With V with get the same picture. We as players try to "survive" and the only thing that really bothers people inconclusive reason why V can't survive. Which is reasonable in a sense.

 

[tRYSIS3]

Anyone watches those scammer videos on youtube? where a "youtuber" calls a scammer and try to waste their time or try to bring them to justice. Those videos are generally about the youtuber calling the scammer, or about the story of the scammers themselves. They are never about the people that got scammed.

Basically V is the person that got scammed. I'll try to simplify it here:

1. V caught a virus/chip and was promised a cure in return for a favor.
2. V follows the scammers' (Alt, Arasaka) instructions to get cured (help Hanako, or connect to Mikoshi).
3. The scammers get what they wanted (Arasaka stronger than ever, Alt stronger than ever, Johnny alive).
4. V gets a "cure" but actually it's a scam (V dies in 6 months)
5. Scammers win and V loses.

Stories are never about the losers (maybe in some comedy films, which Cyberpunk is not).

V WILL NOT FIND A CURE THAT HASN'T BEEN FOUND ALREADY. THE STORY IS OVER.

 

[acakomandos]

Also dont forget if

End: "So, you will die in six months, V!"

V: "Uh, didn't Victor already told me that when I woke up after crawling our from the dumpster? Is this some matrix-glitch-shit or something?"

End: "No! It is peak RPG-Storytelling for the new millenium! Plagues, moronic presidents, Altered Carbon cancelled! Nobody wants to see you getting to live, V! But don't worry, we'll add a DLC to expand on your ending!"

V: "Uh, sounds great...?"

End: "YES! 3 additional minutes of a slideshow showing you slowly but surely making the best out of your six months! We even hired your voice actress again, for only she can realyl sell the agony, and fear of death, and hopelessness you will experience these six months as the clock's ticking!"

V: "This deal getting worse all the time ... "

End: "Indeed! We even have scenes of your potential loved ones, watching you as your brain detoriates! So much fun to make the best of six months and live life to its fullest! We even added a scene of all your friends at your funeral, V! Of course, with only first person view, all you will see is a dark black screen, though you maybe hear the dirt and soil hitting your casket!"

V: "Wow...if only I had taken that boring job at the supermarket ..."

End: "Too late, dearest V! And YOU players, don't forget to buy our next big game in 12 years!"

Also as added extra after you die V players will get exclusive clip how is your romance partner dying for no obvius reason. We wanna complete misery just for our audience

 

[StarkHelsing]

Well, imagine one has a cancer, he gives his all, does everything he can. Gets best medical treatment - end result - remains the same. With V with get the same picture. We as players try to "survive" and the only thing that really bothers people inconclusive reason why V can't survive. Which is reasonable in a sense.

Exactly, we're not even told why. We're given these amazing examples on how we may be saved, from nanobites to engram and clones. Yet we're straight up told we're doomed.

When it comes to games, you expect a path to success. That happy feeling, that sensation of beating all odds. Even those who have cancer and have been told they're not going to make it have survived. Yet we're not even given that. And the only hint of a maybe is if you run away with the nomads, and even that isn't clear.

 

[steelybran]

I mean it's either happy or it's not, if you have to write an essay to prove how you think it's happy then it's probably not.

That's hardly an essay, but I digress - the simple fact of the matter is that people wanted a cut-and-dry "everyone lives happily ever after" ending. This game doesn't give THAT.

People complain the game isn't complex enough, but turn around and complain about complex endings.

 

[acakomandos]

Anyone watches those scammer videos on youtube? where a "youtuber" calls a scammer and try to waste their time or try to bring them to justice. Those videos are generally about the youtuber calling the scammer, or about the story of the scammers themselves. They are never about the people that got scammed.

Basically V is the person that got scammed. I'll try to simplify it here:

1. V caught a virus/chip and was promised a cure in return for a favor.
2. V follows the scammers' (Alt, Arasaka) instructions to get cured (help Hanako, or connect to Mikoshi).
3. The scammers get what they wanted (Arasaka stronger than ever, Alt stronger than ever, Johnny alive).
4. V gets a "cure" but actually it's a scam (V dies in 6 months)
5. Scammers win and V loses.

Stories are never about the losers (maybe in some comedy films, which Cyberpunk is not).

V WILL NOT FIND A CURE THAT HASN'T BEEN FOUND ALREADY. THE STORY IS OVER.

If that is the case they did amasing job. I feel sad, empty, shitty, hopeless, I wonder why did I do side missons, why did I bother to romance. 10/10 would not play again. if V really dies game is dead to me. I wont come back for multiplayer because that is not why I bought this game

 

[RayBotty]

They could have solved that secret ending thingy easily. Let Johnny keep the body and upload V into full FBC Gemini body. Then both of them would be "alive". Deus Ex machina perfect ending. At least close to it.

Slight issue with that: full body conversions do not include any brain, either biological or artificial. Getting a full body conversion means you have your brain, part of the brain stem plus some vital organs that can't be replaced implanted into a cybernetic body. Simply getting a Gemini or other FBC for V wouldn't save them.

 

[tRYSIS3]

How did V make corpos stronger?

How did V make corpos stronger? How did V bring terrorist to life? Did V do some satanic ritual I am not aware of? V got fucked during heist, lost Jackie, got shot in the head, she was almost killed by Jhonny, she spend every day in pain, vomiting, and for pushing on and fighting she got death?

Have you watched the Arasaka ending? because you are literally told that Arasaka became gods (because of your help). Also, if you choose to give Johnny your body, you literally bring a terrorist to life, lol. If you wanna kill Johnny then you have to kill yourself.

 

[arcsirc]

The thing I really don't like about some of the endings is the lack of permutations. They give you two options while in Mikoshi, V keeps the body, or Johnny keeps the body. The latter triggers 'A New Dawn' regardless of the path you took to get there.

The kicker is that this is 1 of 2 possible permutation - the other being Arasaka and whether you return to earth or enter Mikoshi. I can't do the secret ending and leave Nightcity with the Aldecaldos. I'm locked into the 'Nightcity legend' ending. I can't do the Aldecaldo ending and remain in Nightcity, betraying the trust of the Aldecaldos after they helped me. I can't do the Rogue/Johnny ending and decide to leave with the Aldecaldos, etc.

There's zero agency in act 3 because you just pick a mostly linear path and that's the end. It's so unimaginative.

This was a jarring moment for me, I chose the Johnny ending because I didn't want to throw the Avocados up against the might of Arasaka, Rogue was experienced and the fight against Arasaka was also part of her personal journey. But after the absolutely brutal scene within Mikoshi I'm railroaded into this future that I wouldn't have chosen, apparently i've chosen "Glory" when my motivation was to spare the people i've grown to care about. Given a choice I would have been making sure I got Judy out of Night City.
The only reason I can see to do this would be a follow-up narrative where the Avocado's NEED the Arasaka tech in order to cure V.
Pretty cool that throwing the people you care about into the meat grinder gives you the "happy" ending whereas showing any empathy whatsoever gives you an outside perspective of V having an absolute breakdown inside Mikoshi while you are powerless to help her in a scene that's honestly haunted me ever since.

The 6 months thing is so trite when instead there's so much to explore thematically about whether or not you're still you, still human, grieving who you were and growing through change. It honestly sounds tacked on and if it's not just bait, then it's just bad.

 

[Anrix1]

Not even Mass Effect 3. At least in Mass Effect 3 if I put effort into it I could actually survive the last battle. We don't get diddly poop for doing all the quests and making connections in Cyberpunk 2077.

Yeah for real at least you could survive in ME3 with a high enough EMS score.

Unlike in Cyberpunk where if you literally do everything you could possibly do gigs, sidequests, etc nothing will change.

I honestly prefer Mass Effect 3 endings at this point.

 

[Ratkatcher]

I'm not most amused to have a multitude of endings with the same finale, to be honest, but the odds were stacked against V from the moment Johnny took over. Perhaps if the game had been marketed with the emphasis on not actually having the character created by choice as the main protagonist I'd have been informed enough to save £50

 

[acakomandos]

That's hardly an essay, but I digress - the simple fact of the matter is that people wanted a cut-and-dry "everyone lives happily ever after" ending. This game doesn't give THAT.

People complain the game isn't complex enough, but turn around and complain about complex endings.

For an RPG its not okay. If it was linear fine. V was skripted to die. BUT in an RPG its bs to have ony one option. death