[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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Agree. I hate the mf, and the way how writers pushing him everywhere.
Hell, if you wanted him so bad, should just make the whole game about him. Make him the main character.
And for those who like him - try to put yourself on V's place. Would you like the brain cancer that killing you, constantly trolling, and making fun of you? I wouldn't.
I wanted him out of V's head the moment I met him.

I understand why most of you guys hate him. I mean Johnny isn't exactly likeable at first or at all depending on how you treat him. But I actually really started to like him near the end of the game.

To be fair It's not like he has any choice in the matter of the chip killing you and actually tries to help you stop it.

And there are bits in the game where l felt he had changed somewhat. For example his side quest where you visit his grave he admits he ruined every good thing in his life and everything he did was rendered pointless in the end anyways. He fucked up everything and in that moment he feels it.

After that mission he can even express concern for V. In my game after I did his other side quest where you let him do one last concert with his crew he tells you how he regrets it. He says something along the lines of this was a mistake and I shouldn't have requested this because in the time it took to do all this for V we could've done something to stop the chip.

I just wish they could've followed all this through in an end where Johnny redeems himself of something. Fulfills his promise to V that he gave with the dogtags and wipes himself to save V.

To be fair I played as a guy and I completely understand why some of you are upset with how he treats V at the beginning especially if you played female V.

No hate just my reasoning on why I liked Johnny.

Also agree the game does force him on you cuz even if you treat him like shit they still act like buddies. It's weird. There should've been dialog differences based on your relationship with him but you know it's just one of those things missing.
 
i didn't want to turn this into the johnny thread, but as we're talking about it now. i liked johnny silverhand as a character. at first he is a dick, true enough... but, the way i handled him, if he is being a pain, i'd have v be one right back. once he stopped being a jerk, so did my v. and as far as i can tell in my playthrough johnny and v became pretty good friends, especially at the end.
 
I understand why most of you guys hate him. I mean Johnny isn't exactly likeable at first or at all depending on how you treat him. But I actually really started to like him near the end of the game.

To be fair It's not like he has any choice in the matter of the chip killing you and actually tries to help you stop it.

And there are bits in the game where l felt he had changed somewhat. For example his side quest where you visit his grave he admits he ruined every good thing in his life and everything he did was rendered pointless in the end anyways. He fucked up everything and in that moment he feels it.

After that mission he can even express concern for V. In my game after I did his other side quest where you let him do one last concert with his crew he tells you how he regrets it. He says something along the lines of this was a mistake and I shouldn't have requested this because in the time it took to do all this for V we could've done something to stop the chip.

I just wish they could've followed all this through in an end where Johnny redeems himself of something. Fulfills his promise to V that he gave with the dogtags and wipes himself to save V.

To be fair I played as a guy and I completely understand why some of you are upset with how he treats V at the beginning especially if you played female V.

No hate just my reasoning on why I liked Johnny.

Also agree the game does force him on you cuz even if you treat him like shit they still act like buddies. It's weird. There should've been dialog differences based on your relationship with him but you know it's just one of those things missing.

I feel the same. Even though I played a fem/trans V and felt sometimes disgusted and sometimes I know I needed someone to trust because we're in on this shit together.

In my opinion, all the emotions the character of Johnny Silverhand draws out of the players, be it (very) negative or positive or something in between. You don't need to like him, you may even hate him...

All of this leads to me thinking: Hell, they did a really good job in creating this character (in all/lots of aspects).
 
Just one last thing before I get to sleep.

Mistys Tarot cards.

I see a lot of guys arguing that the Nomad Ending is happy, because the Tarot cards promise "a good life in the badlands".
One post that I am to lazy to find and quote right now also spoke about how the ending credits feel like they take place AFTER the 6 months already, so everything has to be fine.

I really, really want to believe that. It would instantly make the game replayable to me.

But please debunk my gloomy take on that first:

The Tarot cards imply that you live the best life... FOR 6 MONTHS.
I am no expert on Tarot but I do think that could be a viable interpretation.

Regarding the second argument about the credits I will state something even more depressing:

It appears to me that all these messages are left unread on your phone, because you died already.
Much like you can call Jackie and leave a message after he died we see the credits from the perspective of someone who found V's phone next to his body.

With these joyful thoughts I now head to bed.


So, the big thing to keep in mind is that Tarot cards, in general, are meant to represent a time frame from the present to 6 months into the future (some Tarot will generate three rows - your recent past, your present, and your immediate future - but Misty only draws three, for future readings).

As I mentioned before, this is what those cards mean:

The Chariot: direction, control, willpower
The Lovers: partnerships, duality, union
The Sun: joy, success, celebration, positivity (also listed as Success, happiness, all will be well)


So, what the cards read is that at the end of your 6 month journey, you are happy with your partner, heading in the direction you wish to go. V survived (through any number of potential means, be it another Relic [see my previous post], new body, experimental gene therapy, etc) and is now living a good life with the Nomads.

This opens up potential DLC because of the messages left by others, referencing V's potential return trip to Night City. Maybe to tie up loose ends. Maybe to exact revenge on Arosaka's leadership (especially if Jackie ended up in Mikoshi). Maybe to rescue someone who is still left behind (Rogue, Vik, Misty, etc). There are plenty of potential reasons for a living V to come back to the city to help someone out. Who the hell knows - maybe Panam and/or Judy come along, to ensure X happens.

As far as your interpretation of the messages being left unread on V's phone, I would offer a couple of tidbits:
1.) Were you the kind of player that read all of the messages, or ignored them? That probably plays a part in your own interpretation of that.
2.) If you romanced Judy, we know V is still alive when the recording is made (because V is picked up on the recording letting her know breakfast is ready). The likelihood of Judy not prompting V to check her messages? Pretty damned low.
3.) That said, if you are the kind of person who interprets the most hopeful ending as still being a 6 month death sentence, then... I dunno. Sorry.
 
Nanites are programmed to work in a certain way, surely they can be reprogrammed (especially by a super powerful AI) to do whatever is needed to do.
If the nanites managed to rewire your brain then why can't they re-rewire your brain if they're programmed to do otherwise?
Thing is the nanites aren't 're-wiring' your brain, they're consuming it, or more specifically converting it. This is what caused the 'tumors' that are removed in the Trust Arasaka ending (horrid choice imo). Regardless of how V goes about it, they're going to die from the heist. Johnny can live on, but even he knows its not the same, its why he's keen on saving you.

The point is the brain tissue and your neurological system has been converted to match Johnny's 'mind', he has become the 'host' and you have become the 'parasite'. Keep in mind the chip was a prototype, and stopping that bullet is also what caused it to go nuclear on you in the first place, a defense mechanism of sorts.

Perhaps if we were able to get Hellman to Mikoshi earlier, it would be possible, but the methods by which would could achieve so while being actively pursued by all of Arasaka, is highly questionable. The alternative route is some op in one or more endings where you steal or raid another corp, like Biotechnica, and make use of their high-end medical technology. Until such an addition arrives however, the fact remains as is. Any method to 'fix' the problem was lost when Dex shot V in the head, end of story.

I can agree that having no 'happy' option can be frustrating, but given how many TPK's or character deaths I've seen around a tabletop game, its part of the setting, cyberpunk especially. You have highlights in the story, daring adventures, awe inspiring turnarounds, and yes tragic deaths. Life goes on.
 
Thing is the nanites aren't 're-wiring' your brain, they're consuming it, or more specifically converting it. This is what caused the 'tumors' that are removed in the Trust Arasaka ending (horrid choice imo). Regardless of how V goes about it, they're going to die from the heist. Johnny can live on, but even he knows its not the same, its why he's keen on saving you.
What stops an all powerful AI to literally rewrite the code and make the nanites rewrite you in your own body, thus rewriting Johnny's DNA which is currently in V's body tho.
 
my GMs have never spun a tale specifically designed to kill the party. that's not their job.
---edit
that's the difference here, we were handed a character with a bullet in the head who was destined not to make it from the get go. if your GM or DMs pull that kind of bs on you, you get a new one.

---edit again
yes i've played D&D and shadowrun, you got me.
 
What stops an all powerful AI to literally rewrite the code and make the nanites rewrite you in your own body, thus rewriting Johnny's DNA which is currently in V's body tho.
Calling Alt 'all powerful' is rather odd. They are afraid of netwatch, about being captured. This means there is a limitation to what they can do. If the chips last 'command' to the nanites was to convert the brain incase of body death and then the transmitter was destroyed (by a bullet) the nanites would act independent to any transmissions Alt could put out, as they would not be able to take control of each individual nanite. Alt even says in the first place that they will be using Soulkiller on V, meaning they had no other option to 'save' V.

Some machines cannot be so easily hacked, additionally it stands to reason the neural load of the nanites is tied to V's brain, thus trying to drastically change their function could have fatal effects on V, its like trying to do brain surgery remotely, except half the buttons on the remote control is broken. Alt went with a strategy with the highest level of success. Unfortunately, this wasn't enough.
 
Calling Alt 'all powerful' is rather odd. They are afraid of netwatch, about being captured. This means there is a limitation to what they can do. If the chips last 'command' to the nanites was to convert the brain incase of body death and then the transmitter was destroyed (by a bullet) the nanites would act independent to any transmissions Alt could put out, as they would not be able to take control of each individual nanite. Alt even says in the first place that they will be using Soulkiller on V, meaning they had no other option to 'save' V.
Alt killed all Arasaka tower by herself after being jacked in.
Also pulled down a whole satellite into the atmosphere, destroying it.
She's powerful, this was fruit of her work, she knows how this shit works, she was one of the most skilled netrunners in CP universe and when she became an AI she only improved and improved.
It's a bunch of nanites anyway.. Literally biotechnica does this kind of work and biotechnica isn't even Arasaka level, let alone N.U.S.A. tech level.
 
Nanonites rewriting body to only recognise Johnny. Multiple dialogue options where we're being told we're merging in personality/soul.

'Sorry V, but your body only recognises captain Johnny now. Soon it's just going to eject you.'
'But I thought we basically merged in some sense? His soul is still within me, and I in him right'
'NOPE SORRY BYE'

:shrug:
 
Nanonites rewriting body to only recognise Johnny. Multiple dialogue options where we're being told we're merging in personality/soul.

'Sorry V, but your body only recognises captain Johnny now. Soon it's just going to eject you.'
'But I thought we basically merged in some sense? His soul is still within me, and I in him right'
'NOPE SORRY BYE'

:shrug:

Exactly tho they tell you all throughout the game that you two are merging together, but like there is no merge ending. Just death in seven ways. Not all endings have to be good but there is no reason why in an RPG all 7 endings have to be the same.
 
Alt killed all Arasaka tower by herself after being jacked in.
Also pulled down a whole satellite into the atmosphere, destroying it.
She's powerful, this was fruit of her work, she knows how this shit works, she was one of the most skilled netrunners in CP universe and when she became an AI she only improved and improved.
It's a bunch of nanites anyway.. Literally biotechnica does this kind of work and biotechnica isn't even Arasaka level, let alone N.U.S.A. tech level.
Causing a satelitte to fall is literally a matter of activating some alignment thrusters to drop it out of orbit, gravity and friction does the real work.

Hacking drones, and cameras, doing minor quick-hacks (which get absurdly whack if you spec into intelligence) these aren't ground breaking things. Alt is very powerful true, but this doesn't mean she can interact with the chip in a way that allows her to directly control the nanites. If Alt could have done that it would've been done, but I would assume the damage to the chip made that route impossible.

So the alternative was to remove Johnny's construct, and your 'mind', have the nanites go dormant (due to no longer having a purpose) and have Hellman/machines repair/fix your body while you're out of it. Issue being, time, you ran out. A 'merge' ending could be neat, but could end up feeling like a massive cop out.
 
Causing a satelitte to fall is literally a matter of activating some alignment thrusters to drop it out of orbit, gravity and friction does the real work.

Hacking drones, and cameras, doing minor quick-hacks (which get absurdly whack if you spec into intelligence) these aren't ground breaking things. Alt is very powerful true, but this doesn't mean she can interact with the chip in a way that allows her to directly control the nanites. If Alt could have done that it would've been done, but I would assume the damage to the chip made that route impossible.

So the alternative was to remove Johnny's construct, and your 'mind', have the nanites go dormant (due to no longer having a purpose) and have Hellman/machines repair/fix your body while you're out of it. Issue being, time, you ran out. A 'merge' ending could be neat, but could end up feeling like a massive cop out.
She can, you're jacked in, every part of your body when you're in cyberspace can directly be linked to her, let alone if you even jack her INTO you directly.
Biochip is cyberware, your body is covered by cyberware, she could literally fry you if she wanted to.
Either way, even if Alt doesn't do it, why doesn't Arasaka think of it?
The whole DNA thing is BS, if by the end of the game you're basically Johnny level of DNA there's no fricking way you're alive.
It's comparable to radiation sickness (and they did compare it to that, infact)
Thing is, nanites put new DNA in you, your body would kill you before the nanites do because it can't function without DNA and RNA.
 
You know that whole conversation earlier got me thinking. With outer worlds I complained, because it was an average RPG, that had only two real paths you could take - BUT IT WAS AN RPG. I am not too confident in Dragon Age, or ME4, but I had never thought they aren't going to be RPGs - maybe not good RPGs, but an RPG. CDPR was just like, "nah". And this is what we got. Garbage trash endings, and little to no player choice (98% nothing matter, right?).

I was actually reading a guide earlier while playing, because I was curious what my other options lead to.. let me pull it up..

This is pretty much the entire dialogue in this particular mission:

"> Both options have the same outcome. "
"> Both options have the same outcome. "
"> Both options have the same outcome. "
"> Both options have the same outcome. "
"> Both options have the same outcome. "
"> Both options have the same outcome. "

According to this guide. Lol! So, I tried it in game, because I was trying to follow kind of RP for my character, and yep! The NPC responds the exact same way, no matter what you choose. What a literal joke.
 
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