[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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Is it possible, according to the lore of the game, for example, to abandon Alt, return to the body, connect yourself to the net, then disconnect from the body and fly away into cyberspace alone?
 
And then it goes further to explain that the name soulkiller comes from the fact that engrams that are trapped within slowly lose their humanity factor due to lack of any stimulus within the net space. But again. This is not explained in the game. And the funny thing is, if Alt doesn't make that casual comment about everything changing, noone would even think twice to use the soulkiller. That line as it is currently only serve the purpose to make the story feel deeper with a phylosophical undertone, when in reality, it shows 0 effort in exploring it further.
Minds copied by the soulkiller are programs. Programs feel time only if they are run. Alt was run immediatly after being copied, and never stopped, which means she is CENTURIES old, not years. Stored minds may not be run at all, and thus are not active. See Dixie the Flatline character in Neuromancer, for instance.
And as I said, there are so many things not explained in the game. The lore of Pondsmith's universe is so vast it's a shame CDPR did not even bother to fill the holes.
Besides, the soulkiller is used by Arasaka in the game with their program Save your Soul. Souls are copied and stored, not run. Thus, no decay.
 
This is the bullshit the writers introduce to forbid the immortality in the machine, introducing the soul, a religious notion, where there is only the mind.
That's pretty lame, and absurd.
This is the bullshit the writers introduce to forbid the immortality in the machine, introducing the soul, a religious notion, where there is only the mind.
That's pretty lame, and absurd.
I personally think there is nothing wrong with factoring in the soul and human experience. But when you do something like this, you'd better be ready to give me a full act on about exploring what this all means in relation to what my goal is.
I would have been happy touse the soulkiller if I get an act where it's explained that the soul is essentially the human experience itself, blah blah. I am pretty sure there are plenty other ways to explain it in a believable way and stay fit in with he use of soulkiller. But the writers did nothing to explore what the human soul means in a world where you can lose your humanity without even dying.
 
Now i will probably make a point nobody will agree with, but i for myself was not so displeased by imminent death of V in every ending. Firstly, men, who have freely chosen a life of crime and violence, in most cases die violently and early, being far from achieving wealth and glory. Secondly, i was not attached to V in the first place, because V was driven by lust for glory and success, and i don't feel that lust in myself.
All this doesn't excuse poor writing of CP77, players deserves a chance to obtain at least one agreeable ending, where V at least lives, although at steep price of his friends, dreams, freedom etc.
 
Well, we don(t know much about that. That may also be some propaganda to keep people not looking.


The AI as made of lines of code. These lines are stored somewhere and they need computing power to operate. AIs use distributed resources to run. The need processing power and electrical power and bandwith. Nothing else. The information constituting them are stored somewhere and they can be accessed anytime. What is more relevant is that Alt is in the net for more than 50 years, and that is a very long time. This very long time is the cause of the changes of her mindset.

Sorry, I disagree.
Johnny is her last lover. Johnny is the guy who stormed Arasaka tower for her. Rogue was Johnny's input before Alt, and she came to rescue her. Alt is not jealous, I believe she's beyond such pettiness. But Johnny indeed needs Alt's help. Netwatch too because they want to broker some agreement with the AIs to rebuild the net, and the voodoo boys want an agreement for their own goals (ie : gather enough power to be independant and safe)

No she does not.
She had revenge 60 years ago when Johnny tried to rescue her, or when the Arasaka Tower was bombed. She a god in the machine. Do you really think she cares for the mere mortals ?
Alt has absolutely nothing to gain in absorbing the engrams. It is somewhat costly to her because she has to find more storage space and more processing power. I believe this is some plot-hole in order to forbid the "immortality in the machine" ending.

Nope. Neither Netwatch or the NUSA are in position to destroy the AIs. Netwatch and the NUSA are a small part of the Cyberpunk world.
Agreed, there are some murderous rampaging AIs, but they are not organized to end humanity. This is not a prelude to The Matrix.

Maybe, maybe... She could indeed be a good AI in a story where AIs are bad. I still think she's talking out of her backside, but again, that simply could just be due to poor writing.

But it does leave us with something. Alt has left and gone through the Blackwall either taking Johnny or V with them - not both. What does this mean for the NUSA? I mean, I also wouldn't consider the 'New United States of America' small, it's one of the big powerhouses in this world. Especially with Militech being a driving force of corporate power. And I say that as someone who isn't American and isn't all 'Oh yay, America fuck yeah'. What brokering of peace is there to be had now?
 
Minds copied by the soulkiller are programs. Programs feel time only if they are run. Alt was run immediatly after being copied, and never stopped, which means she is CENTURIES old, not years. Stored minds may not be run at all, and thus are not active. See Dixie the Flatline character in Neuromancer, for instance.
And as I said, there are so many things not explained in the game. The lore of Pondsmith's universe is so vast it's a shame CDPR did not even bother to fill the holes.
Besides, the soulkiller is used by Arasaka in the game with their program Save your Soul. Souls are copied and stored, not run. Thus, no decay.
I agree with you on that. My exact issue with the story is that it touches topics so superfically that it can be considered a plothole for many. They needed to expand and explain so much more about the universe in a first hand experience way.
 
Now i will probably make a point nobody will agree with, but i for myself was not so displeased by imminent death of V in every ending. Firstly, men, who have freely chosen a life of crime and violence, in most cases die violently and early, being far from achieving wealth and glory. Secondly, i was not attached to V in the first place, because V was driven by lust for glory and success, and i don't feel that lust in myself.
All this doesn't excuse poor writing of CP77, players deserves a chance to obtain at least one agreeable ending, where V at least lives, although at steep price of his friends, dreams, freedom etc.
The fact that V. dies in the end is not the problem.
The fact that nothing can avoid that is. The fact that it is brought up in the 10 last minutes of the game, "oh, and you gonna die in 6 months, Cya", is also pathetic. This is bad storytelling.
Also, I don't believe in karma. V. can be the most rotten son of a bitch and get away with it, as long at V. is a smart SoB.
 
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Now i will probably make a point nobody will agree with, but i for myself was not so displeased by imminent death of V in every ending. Firstly, men, who have freely chosen a life of crime and violence, in most cases die violently and early, being far from achieving wealth and glory. Secondly, i was not attached to V in the first place, because V was driven by lust for glory and success, and i don't feel that lust in myself.
All this doesn't excuse poor writing of CP77, players deserves a chance to obtain at least one agreeable ending, where V at least lives, although at steep price of his friends, dreams, freedom etc.
I agree with you. I am not against death in the endings. It's the impact of that death and the nature of it that I can't dismiss.

As I said many times, if the Araska ending would give me closure, I would go even as far to say that the journey was worth it.
 
Thing is, when Alt says that the Soulkiller does what the name promises, she kinda indicates that there is actually a soul, and the program kills it.
Now you can argue that she meant in a methaphorical way, but the problem is, noone in the game points that out. Noone in the game questions if she meant it literally or if she is just refering to our body turning into a corpse.
If someone for example Misty, or hell even if V would challange that statement, I would be so much more keen to believe that she didn't mean it in a literal way.
But as things are in the game, what Alt says is: There is a soul, and you lose it if you use the machine. Now if that is a big deal or not, that is personal opinion. Obviously people who don't believe in a soul will interpret it a way that it means you won't actually lose anything.
Man I know why you're worried by you need to understand that that is Alt's perspective, she lost her souls because she lost touch with her humanity.

But V is completely different, we return to our body, so now the question is how much of our soul if any did we sacrifice to survive?
 
Maybe, maybe... She could indeed be a good AI in a story where AIs are bad. I still think she's talking out of her backside, but again, that simply could just be due to poor writing.

But it does leave us with something. Alt has left and gone through the Blackwall either taking Johnny or V with them - not both. What does this mean for the NUSA? I mean, I also wouldn't consider the 'New United States of America' small, it's one of the big powerhouses in this world. Especially with Militech being a driving force of corporate power. And I say that as someone who isn't American and isn't all 'Oh yay, America fuck yeah'. What brokering of peace is there to be had now?
There is only going to be peace if you let V get fucked over by Arasaka. Saburo would fix it.
Padre tells us that Militech will delay with its political apparatus. Then prepare, prepare and prepare some more..
 
The fact that V. dies in the end is not the problem.
The fact that nothing can avoid that is. The fact that it is brought up in the 10 last minutes of the game, "oh, and you gonna die in 6 months, Cya", is also pathetic. This is bad storytelling.
A1lso, I don't belive in karma. V. can be the most rotten son of a bitch and get away with it, as long at V. is a smart SoB.
The bold part is the essence of the cyberpunk genre and its stories
 
Maybe, maybe... She could indeed be a good AI in a story where AIs are bad. I still think she's talking out of her backside, but again, that simply could just be due to poor writing.

But it does leave us with something. Alt has left and gone through the Blackwall either taking Johnny or V with them - not both. What does this mean for the NUSA? I mean, I also wouldn't consider the 'New United States of America' small, it's one of the big powerhouses in this world. Especially with Militech being a driving force of corporate power. And I say that as someone who isn't American and isn't all 'Oh yay, America fuck yeah'. What brokering of peace is there to be had now?

I would advise you, if you're interested, to look at the numerous website about Mike Pondsmith Cyberpunk P&P RPG. They are full of information. The last edition sets the timeline in 2045, and the world is in really bad shape.
And the dis-united states of America are more a 3rd world country. Militech is probably the most heavily armed corporation. But weapons and armed forces are not what matter any more in a Cyberpunk conflict. ;)
 
Firstly, men, who have freely chosen a life of crime and violence, in most cases die violently and early, being far from achieving wealth and glory.
I'm a bit confused about this. V seems to be a mercenary - which means they're on the edge between legal and illegal. Given how often you HELP the police out I'd say it's a bit much calling him a "criminal". Yeah, gigs often revolve around stealing and killing - but that's kind of the nature of the Cyberpunk tabletop...

My point is - there's a VERY big difference between a character like V or a character like Michael De Santa (or, god forbit, Trevor)...
 
The fact that V. dies in the end is not the problem.
The fact that nothing can avoid that is. The fact that it is brought up in the 10 last minutes of the game, "oh, and you gonna die in 6 months, Cya", is also pathetic. This is bad storytelling.
A1lso, I don't belive in karma. V. can be the most rotten son of a bitch and get away with it, as long at V. is a smart SoB.
It's not karma, just statistics. A mere percent of merc survives long enough to become fixer like Rogue, mere handfull become legends. Why should V be special? No one is special. And in such a life there are to many chaos too counter it by intellect and cool head.
But yes, V's imminent death is too abrupt and weakly justified to belive and accept it, it looks like "rock falls, everyone dies". Bad writing, as i said. As for my vision of plot and desired engings i had posted it several times, probably i'll find a link
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I'm a bit confused about this. V seems to be a mercenary - which means they're on the edge between legal and illegal. Given how often you HELP the police out I'd say it's a bit much calling him a "criminal". Yeah, gigs often revolve around stealing and killing - but that's kind of the nature of the Cyberpunk tabletop...

My point is - there's a VERY big difference between a character like V or a character like Michael De Santa (or, god forbit, Trevor)...
I agree about gray area of law, where V acts, but my points stands. V freely steals and kills for money and glory. Matters not who he kills and robs, good guys or not. I speak more from moral point of view, not legal. And yeah, i understand, that in CP77 society merc job is the only social lift possible for children of working class.
 
Why should V be special?
a) Because it's a video game and he's the PC. ;)
b) He doesn't need to become a legend, really. It would have been perfectly fine to keep the story "small". Keeping the character alive is also a great way to open up fun DLC possibilities, and THERE you can open up the stakes to be huge and worthy of a "legend" status.
 
Man I know why you're worried by you need to understand that that is Alt's perspective, she lost her souls because she lost touch with her humanity.

But V is completely different, we return to our body, so now the question is how much of our soul if any did we sacrifice to survive?
Trust me. If the DLCs address the question around the soul, i'll be the first one to go with the soulkiller path and explore the extra narrative.
As things are right now I have no reason to gamble with my soul. Especially since the possible sacrafice of it gives me the exact same 6 months as keeping it the Arasaka way.
 
I would advise you, if you're interested, to look at the numerous website about Mike Pondsmith Cyberpunk P&P RPG. They are full of information. The last edition sets the timeline in 2045, and the world is in really bad shape.
And the dis-united states of America are more a 3rd world country. Militech is probably the most heavily armed corporation. But weapons and armed forces are not what matter any more in a Cyberpunk conflict. ;)
I swear somewhere in the game a corporation or state blames a terrorist attack on Texas.
Not a good look, at least Militech was voted employer of the year in 2077, offering 5 paid vacation days a year!
 
It's not karma, just statistics. A mere percent of merc survives long enough to become fixer like Rogue, mere handfull become legends. Why should V be special? No one is special. And in such a life there are to many chaos too counter it by intellect and cool head.
But yes, V's imminent death is too abrupt and weakly justified to belive and accept it, it looks like "rock falls, everyone dies". Bad writing, as i said. As for my vision of plot and desired engings i had posted it several times, probably i'll find a link
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I agree about gray area of law, where V acts, but my points stands. V freely steals and kills for money and glory. Matters not who he kills and robs, good guys or not. I speak more from moral point of view, not legal. And yeah, i understand, that in CP77 society merc job is the only social lift possible for children of working class.
I don't agree with the notion that nobody is special. I don't agree with that in real life, and definitely don't agree with it in a story telling environment.
There are many people who are special either because of personal talent or simply because they were lucky enough to born into privilige. Noone wants to read about non special characters.
You can argue people who are on top of the foodchain, be it in the underworld foodchain or in corpo are special. The player characer has to be special otherwise most of game mechanics wouldn't make sense.
 
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