The game going the ME:Andromeda route is certainly a distinct possibility. "Everything is such a dumpster fire at this point screw it lets just slap some MP in there and move on to the next Witcher game."
Multiplayer is a stupid idea considering that there basically is no balance whatsoever in CP.
In a certain way that was what I was referring to yes.
Imagine if in the next installment (or whatevs) you're 'X' and all of a sudden come across Judy again or River, surely they'd have to mention being in love/having had a romance with someone who regretfully has died a tragic death.
And even crazier, depending on the ending and your actions.. where are some of them even? Panam is basically out the door anyways... also a character that I would'nt recommend dropping
Alt openly says there's no 100% copy - she will put a copy on an engram, kill Vs actual conciousness, then reupload the copy and within that the final conciousness will have lost parts of itself (the soul). She openly states Soulkiller will kill the Soul, that's why she named it that way. It greatly resonates with the depiciton of Arasaka advertising the Relic as Soul saver.
But yeah we can always argue about who knows best what happens to the soul with soulkiller or what is meant by soul really...
But i think that whole Soulkiller concept witht he specific lines, without opening acceptance paths for V, is the big failure here. If you read up on Alt on the old wiki, it doesn't sound as if she no longer was the original person (though i completly confess i've never read the PnP stories). And leaving it that way and not having the 6 months timeframe also would have been a better way.
The way it's written is you can't come to terms with anything and each and every way you go the "GM" seem to go: "Yeah you think that's good but actually, see how that's bad. But maybe if you then go there, hehe nah still bad... but over there... ". And i can't discern a message or reason in that exactly, other than possibly life and the writers are bitches (no actual insult for the writers intended)?
But i'm likely a dolt.. so yeah.
Still there might come some DLC adressing things, branding Alt as a lying AI or something. We'll see.
Otherwise kudos to the people trying to find their path to terms with a story that was unfulfilling for them, no matter if i personally disagree with your reasonnings
which is precisely my point. either from alt nor from V when she chooses to live I do not get the impressions really any of them has changed. making the not-100% copy/ loss of the soul rather vague at best, meaningless at worst.
Obviously we don't know what they plan yet, but I would assume we won't be V in the MP. There will be a set of selectable avatars for MP modes that they balance around each other.
Funny thing is, you can ascribe meaning to what we players get to see - must be the same V after, because we see stuff again - but that get's thrown out by after death phone calls.
I'd say it can be even worse, in that it diverts attention away from other things, they wanted to really adress.
Neither do I, but its is highly likely. Not that is has worked for Bioware, but doing dumb stuff like that seems to be the norm rather than the exception.
It makes me wonder. what if they just stated that the copy wouldn't be 100% equal, some things will be lost simply becasue of it, but stay vague about what that may be. Maybe it would just be some memories.
As you say: its all grounded in what we experience in the game as the player, and therefore it simply has no effect if the 'lost bits' are never told about.
I also think its the question regarding the soul is done becasue its a very heavy loaded and deep theme, and it makes the Soulkiller feel like it'll always win somehow. sort of like an antagonist that cant be beaten but has no motive on its own. The ultimate weapon. Thats at least the jist I got from it.
And with what was stated earlier, as long as we as the player do not get to experience what our V lost, it has no consequence for what we do have left. Which, again, if you choose to live as V, the potential to seek out a cure to repair you body to accept the engram... It would bring it full circle.
Yeah, the tacked on multiplayer or the fortnite treatment.
I was happy with CP2077 being a cool singleplayer experience for a change.
For me OG plan for 2020 release was to launch the game, with story like this maybe a little bit longer, then go on with mid game dlcs, and by the time the story arc of V would be depleted, MP was to launch.
they could achieve this only by the great reception of the SP game, the same as R* did with GTA V. Then Hell breaks loose, and we are where we are.
The game could have even different endings, plot (unused deal 50/50 with Evelyn, pointless dead end objs on the rooftop in the Heist mission), and the list goes on.
Its hard to make the head and tail of it. On the one side endings are uplifting or sinister but with the continuity, on the other there are always those few lines added in every ending that are making whole plot bizarre and out of context but with the same poor and lame plot devic.
they could achieve this only by the great reception of the SP game, the same as R* did with GTA V. Then Hell breaks loose, and we are where we are.
The game could have even different endings, plot (unused deal 50/50 with Evelyn, pointless dead end objs on the rooftop in the Heist mission), and the list goes on.
Its hard to make the head and tail of it. On the one side endings are uplifting or sinister but with the continuity, on the other there are always those few lines added in every ending that are making whole plot bizarre and out of context but with the same poor and lame plot devic.
I would only play that if it changed the outcome of the main story and prologue. I don't want to strengthen my bond with Jackie even more, knowing that he will die during The Heist.
Now if V learned how to hack air cars during that DLC and we could use Saburo's AC to escape from the roof, that would make it worth playing those 6 months. And then write Jackie out of the story cause he's hunted by Arasaka and goes into hiding to protect Misty and his mom (that also needs to be retconned for the main story, cause it's ridiculous that Yorinobu forgets about us, after the first assassination attempt). Then have him come back for some missions at the end which give us a satisfying 8th ending which does not end with V being turned into an engram or dying.
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Wait, unless I'm missing something here. Alt never named SoulKiller - SoulKiller, that wasn't a name she gave the black program - that's the name those who made it into a weapon called it. Originally the program was an extension for netjockeys to fully experience the net. It didn't kill you, just booted your consciousness into the net, an amazing thing for netrunners. But yeah, unless I'm misremembering from the PNP and that one scene where you talk to her, she didn't name the thing. Someone jog my memory if I'm wrong on this.Alt openly says there's no 100% copy - she will put a copy on an engram, kill Vs actual conciousness, then reupload the copy and within that the final conciousness will have lost parts of itself (the soul). She openly states Soulkiller will kill the Soul, that's why she named it that way. It greatly resonates with the depiciton of Arasaka advertising the Relic as Soul saver.
But yeah we can always argue about who knows best what happens to the soul with soulkiller or what is meant by soul really...
But i think that whole Soulkiller concept witht he specific lines, without opening acceptance paths for V, is the big failure here. If you read up on Alt on the old wiki, it doesn't sound as if she no longer was the original person (though i completly confess i've never read the PnP stories). And leaving it that way and not having the 6 months timeframe also would have been a better way.
The way it's written is you can't come to terms with anything and each and every way you go the "GM" seem to go: "Yeah you think that's good but actually, see how that's bad. But maybe if you then go there, hehe nah still bad... but over there... ". And i can't discern a message or reason in that exactly, other than possibly life and the writers are bitches (no actual insult for the writers intended)?
But i'm likely a dolt.. so yeah.
Still there might come some DLC adressing things, branding Alt as a lying AI or something. We'll see.
Otherwise kudos to the people trying to find their path to terms with a story that was unfulfilling for them, no matter if i personally disagree with your reasonnings
Souls are tied into humanity, it's why when you call someone a soulless bastard you mean they lack humanity not that they're lacking that ooOoo ghostie-carrier -over essence of yourself. Having your actual being placed on an object is a move on from humanity, you're now an object - you can be owned completely. Being unable to experience what humans do without your meaty flesh, removes your humanity which is heavily tied in to hormonal feedback. The age-old question is if an AI or whatever can actually feel such things or are they just programmed to - thus a simple copy, a replica, they're acting it rather than feeling it because they wish to.
That was the case. I think the whole premise of the Heist was to be able the change it outcomes. I think that even to the early 2020 there were still different paths. In the one of not so late trailers when the heist gone bad it was TT aircraft that was chasing V and the Jacki, while in the game it’s Arasaka.
There was a different way to play Pacifica mission, later completed abandoned. Considering how badly anetWatch would want to catch/erase alt but this is never expanded.
we have a dialogue with Max Tac officer that offers us a place in the unit and V is like no or definitely no. part of my soul died there..
both netwatch agend and Meredith were left alone, while they could lead to the different endings with Netwatch and Militech. Paralez quest might make the game with ending oriented on NC being a City state free from bigger corporation interference.
But then they had to cut most of this, and what stayed was the edgy endings for the sake of edginess..
I really hope for some CP77 enhanced edition that will bring 2018 version of the game with proper open world that stays open after MQ.
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It's fucking incredible, they had all these ideas and branching missions and then gutted it. I hope whoever thought that this edgy crap was a good idea, will never work on on a game again.
If all this really happened when Keanu got on board (remember how they claimed they expanded his part because he liked the role so much), then I think some of the people really high up on the CDPR corporal ladder are to blame. When you have star power, you don't need cohesive writing, amirite?
You're right, she didn't name it. But still says the program does what it's named for.
Quote:
"V: So... you'll save my life but flatline me along the way?
Alt: Your consciousness, neural engrams, will be recorded as data. The rest will cease to exist.
V: The rest?
Alt: The soul. I did not grant the program its name, but Soulkiller does precisely what it promises to do.
Johnny: Christ i don't want listen to this bullshit.
Johny: V just hops back into her body, right? Nothin' changes.
Alt: Everything changes. You know this well.
"
That's your interpretation of Soul here.
What's clear is that Alt tells you it you will loose parts. And after Soulkiller is used on you, she goes into how she edited your engram actually (though she also tells you this in the first metting) - which is to a degree completly reasonable, given that the time with Johnny changed your personality, but again opens up the question about 100% carbon copy - which is simply isn't there at this time; so the it's likely that she had to write parts herself.
Hormones is one step, but as far as i am ware, we're now actually speaking hardware wiring through neurons and how that's not really sperateable from memories and how parts of memories are formed into those pathways. So people going software/hardware - nah - no such clear distinction here. CDPR is right in calling it engrams.
But again, we need to handwave that whole topic away quite a bit, or we're ending up with a whole discussion about the idiocy of nanomachines (not working in reality as described in game but 80's techno magic); DNA recoding of a whole body, reforming a brain on neuronal levels, while claiming you can't repeat that or repair it or repair neurons.
So again 100% copy isn't there for in my opinion. And the game suffers from Alt pointing towards that. And the game later on going "Oh yeah we can't totally rewrite your brain, because handwavium reasons".
Yes and no.
There is a network, there are hackers.
There is no matrix or cyberspace in W. J. Williams' "Hardwired" and it is however definitely cyberpunk.
I believe Cyberpunk encompasses now aesthetics, SF sub genre, and a ton of features which may appear in other genre and leave a feeling of cyberpunk-ish work. You don't need all the Cyberpunk arsenal to make a cyberpunk work.
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What I think we still lack is what does that mean for our V in the game to the extend of what we see happen.
If we indeed assume V to have lost her soul in the ending variants where she want to live for the remainder of what she's got left. We never know what she's lost at that point... I mean, they call it the soul, but we are left to our own interpretation of what that has for effect in the game.
Pointless even at that because the game ends straight after.
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She still knows everyone around her. She still seems human. She still loves the person you romanced. And thats it. It this point, the entire discussion regarding the Soul may as well not taken place because it does nothing.
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You simply point out the speech with with CDPR send transhumanism and digitized mind to hell, for the sake of their crappy story. They piss on all the Cyberpunk lore and all of the cyberpunk genre just because "fuck you that's my story." Basically, they say that afterlife in the computer, or being a ghost in the machine is irrelevant because of something called a soul, which is mostly a religious notion. Fuck you CDRP, that's lame bullshit. I don't buy your bigot blah-blah...