[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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(Following post will contain story spoilers about Red Dead Redemption 1)

Cyberpunk 2077 main story could be likened to to someone being told they have cancer, and two weeks to live.
Then, after two weeks, they die. That's it. That's the story.

What they do during those two weeks, doesn't matter. They can die by blowing their brains out or wasting away, doesn't matter.

The main story of CP2077 is about V fending off death, and failing at it. V doesn't die fighting the system, V doesn't die fighting the corps the way silverhand did, V doesn't die protecting someone else. V doesn't die for a cause.

V just dies. Without making much of a difference anyway. Theres very few situations where V even interacts with corps.

This doesn't feel the kind of cyberpunk story you want in your epic blockbuster game. It left me completely cold. The story isn't exciting, engaging or immersive, its just depressing.

Even losing V's life doesn't feel impactful, since at least I dont feel invested in it. The story is so short, no real connection can form between player and V. We aren't really even given the "life" part that V is about to lose. V knows death is approaching very early on, and its inevitable. And its truly inevitable: one of the endings pulls the rug out from under player with some star wars level immersion-breaking:

First doing what it promised would help, remove the chip - then says that V will still die because their "DNA is corrupted"? What absolute poppycock. That's not how DNA works, folks. Someone who wrote this didn't take many classes in biology. If V gets cancer, then say it. Its not "corrupted DNA".

Now I will compare CP2077 to a game that did the same thing right: Red dead redemption 1.
In it, the protagonist John Marston's end is also inevitable, but we don't know it as we play. Vast majority of the game we play free to do as we please; John has a really long mission to hunt people down, which we do. This part of the game is very long and immersive, it could be a game in its own right. We are not handicapped, we are not doomed. He fulfills the mission, everything feels fine.

He returns home to his ranch to live with his wife and son. Multiple missions we do farmer things, from herding cattle, to teaching our son, and so on and so forth. This is what it would feel like to have a normal life. This is the life we lose.

Until comes the day, that the government agent who originally forced John to do the mission, returns. He cannot let John the outlaw live, despite everything John did. Happens one of my favorite scenes in my 30 year career of playing video games. But it is only so, because the scene is a culmination of the whole game and everything that happened before it. On its own, the scene would be merely cool, not epic.

John opens the doors of the barn and stares down at an impossibly large number of gunmen. But the game teases survival right down to the last second. The time-slowed deadeye mode activates, like it would in a normal gunfight, making the player think "Wait, maybe I can still do this.. maybe its like all the other gunfights.." No. The task is impossible. John goes down in a hail of bullets.

That's what it feels like to go down in a blaze of glory. Not only did we intricately play out the life that we lost, we also played out the most glorious way to die.

Then the game doesn't just "end". Game immediately timeskips several years, to the now mature John's son, Jack. We now control him instead, and can continue playing just like before. There is even a way for Jack to get revenge. A somewhat hidden mission for Jack to hunt down that government agent. And let me tell you, there's been very few more satisfying missions Ive ever played.

Now comparing this to the story of Cyberpunk 2077, RDR1 story is told vastly better. Its not that much about the story, but also how is it told. CP2077 is only about accepting your inevitable end, and that doesn't make much of a story.
 
V's apartment should be like max 1/3 of its actual size, considering all the implications of limited space and maximizing profit for the corp that build it.

The same story with cyberware as @CyberDiligence already mentioned. I always was so amused with Johnny's hatred for Arasaka, especially when I looked at his "silver" arm which he could afford, being just some poor rockerboy.
 
V's apartment should be like max 1/3 of its actual size, considering all the implications of limited space and maximizing profit for the corp that build it.

If you want to live in a good neighborhood, 2.8k is not a lot for California, first-hand experience.
I always thought that the megabuildings were just expensive cages with little to no living space just to maximize the profits. It came out that it's a bedroom, living room, and a gun gallery for a reasonable price that somebody without a job or credit score can afford. Good luck with finding something like that with your credit score below 600 or first, last and extra fees. Even if you got yourself a place you would be first to evict.

The same story with cyberware as @CyberDiligence already mentioned. I always was so amused with Johnny's hatred for Arasaka, especially when I looked at his "silver" arm which he could aford, being just some poor rockerboy.
A rebel in a Porshe :) He's probably writing angry tweets against capitalism on his new, shining MacBook pro in his Versace robe and wearing the newest Nike Airs :D
 
Now I will compare CP2077 to a game that did the same thing right: Red dead redemption 1.
Oh by the way - I totally agree. Great post. I think we all understand why John dies. He buys himself time but ultimately he has to pay the price for his sins. He was a murderer after all. Even if he changed it's not enough. V didn't do anything so outrageous. Stealing in a world filled with thieves from corporations to gangs is normal behavior that no one really questions.

Sigh.
If somebody told me two years ago that we will compare Rcoskstar's writing to CDPR's I would laugh.
And here we are.
 
Johnny silverhand was many things but never a poor rockerboy.

Be Was a filthy rich rockstar with a record contract.

Well, I suppose he got his arm before that? Cause it would be hard to play on a guitar with one hand.

And in the beginning they weren't so popular as Kerry mentioned in one of his quests.
 
Well, I suppose he got his arm before that? Cause it would be hard to play on a guitar with one hand.

And in the beginning they weren't so popular as Kerry mentioned in one of his quests.

I thought of "silver" more like a colour, not the material.

Got no problem against Porsche. He isn't rebelling against money. Moreover, he'd need money to "rebel more effectively".
 
I thought of "silver" more like a colour, not the material.

Yes, of course, this is why I used quotes. Just wanted to be more specific about the arm I mentioned. My mistake.

He lost his arm in the central American conflict iirc.

Yes, I know that. He lost his arm, then he came back to NC, he changed his name to Johnny and started the band when he already had his cybernetic arm. He became rich later.
So my point was that the new arm wasn't so expensive or there were some ways to get it even if you're nobody. Or maybe I've misunderstood the lore somehow?
 
I finished the game today (yes, it took me forever...274 hours to be precise and I haven't done everything, far from it. I just wanted to finish it before it gets massively underleveled and it becomes too easy....My worried were not justified though, the ending is incredibly easy anyway).

In term of the ending itself, for my first run on the game, I wanted to go for the "particularily" bad one so I got rid of the chip and didn't return to Night city.
I also found this ending fitting since my character is a Corpo, it only made sense to me that my character would return to her roots.

The ending wasn't bad on paper, I kinda like it, however, the "Cyberpunk" syndrome does kick off here too and some things really disappointed me.

First, the last level and particularily Adam Smasher.
I'm sorry, I hate being so direct but the last part of the game is garbage.
The waves of enemies was boring and Adam Smasher is agruably one of the worst boss I've ever fought in my life.

He litteraly have all the traits of a bad boss:
-Bullet sponge like no other.
-Confusing attacks that requires no skill to avoid (just run around the battlefield, essentially).
-Random trash mobs appearing for no reason whatsoever and bringing nothing to the fight.
-Area is unexcitting and the whole fight is loud and unpleasant.
-The boss' set up isn't fitting to the first person view, you spend half the fight to figure out where he is more than anything else.
-You're invincible so, the fight is completely pointless.

Second, the ending itself is too long.
Again, I liked the general direction but having to do tests over and over again was incredibly redundant and boring.
I also would have liked if CDPR were more subtle about the different characters in this game and respect the direction the player decide to take.

99% of the time, you can tell if a character is gonna be good or evil based on where he/she belongs to. Corpo = Evil. Your allies = Good guys.
When you think about it, even the Mox are kind of a nice gang of poor prostitues that are trying to survive in a rough world (because, you know, Judy is from there) compared to...Well any other gangs which are much more Evil doing much more shaddy stuffs.

This transpire on the different shards you find in the game. At first I was reading them but then I stopped because this is always the same thing. Corpo dudes are evil, Gangs do bad stuffs...Rinse and repeat for a good 90% of the logs (some of them are slightly more interesting but it's rare).

The world would have benefited from being less stereotyped and be more "grown up" in a way (I mean, even the doctor form Arasaka who made you do the tests had to be a jerk...Like come on...). Nothing is completely bright or dark in real life, this should be the same in medias, at least imo.

It also annoyed me that CDPR tried to force me to befriend Johnny so much (same thing, for my first run I wanted to reject him just to see how it would go). The set up given by the game was a perfect opportunity to work on this, even giving the option to be very rude and direct with him. The fact that the ending clearly suggests that Johnny is a good guy and the player screwed up for getting rid of him was kinda dumb.

It would have been far more interesting imo if Johnny was different depending on the direction the player want to take, making him an ally if you want him to be one or an enemy if you decide to get rid of him.

Like, letting me choose to get rid of the chip just to scream "Oh, you did the wrong choice" afterwards didn't really bring anyhting to the experience.

Don't get me wrong, I made the decision clearly knowing this is what was going to happen (especially considering the rest of the game isn't very subtle in that regard) but they could have surprised me on that one but they didn't.

For the poll, I voted "The option should be available" because, even though I personally prefere bad/sad endings, I belive that the whole point of being able to make multiple endings is to make all the options available to the player.
If you make a movie, for example, you have to make a clear decision because there's just one ending but in a video game giving you multiple options, it's kinda against the whole concept to go bad/good for all of them...Like why do you give someone a choice just to give him/her a similar result at the end.
 
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It almost feels like the world-building is not brave enough, since CDPR is a corporation and there's no option presented except "nuking Arasaka tower" (forgive me for giggling, but hahaha). Everybody who goes against corporations is presented as an emotional mess that has no clue what to do except blowing shit up. Don't get me wrong, it's fun, but is it a mature story? Hell no.

But please argue with me more. It's Friday on the West Coast and I have absolutely nothing else to do :)
Happy weekend :)

Game goes even extra mile with this. Tbh I found that both CP77 and WW1984 have similar message to tell - "don't try". Trying will get you killed, you will lose your mind or the world will fall apart, literally. Leave everything as it is.

People have some ideas but they are logical and also have innate survival instinct.
Giving option to live as Mr/s Nobody or die as a Legend some may think about this, but show them this same messege and then play the whole scenario where there is no happy ending, City gives no 2 sh... about you, maybe some Corpo will tank in stocks (hehe Melvin Capital) but next one will take it place, all you will be able to achieve is maybe but maybe a small dent in the otherwise gargantuan structure - and that's completely different option.

This what this game is saying is that failure is the only option if you want to try. It's like Borg's blockbuster game distributed in the Federation

Happy weekend! :)

The corporations have way more money than the corporations we know today. They have way more resources. If it's from the profit then where is this profit come from? As we know from history, powerful corporations are built on the middle class's money. I don't really see that class in cyberpunk, which means the corpos are struggling to stay afloat.
In the XX century maybe, XXI? Hardly and you/we are about to see this in action.
This is from likely to "almost inevitable" that future corpos/banks just won't need any classes/people to stay afloat. They will be trading with each other under the Central Banks umbrella. Classes will become obsolete, people will be mostly living on corpos/goverment mercy (tho the thin line between them will be even thinner).

Today there is far more money than is being physically produced (as a product of "the man's work") and it's just being produced more and more - starting from the fractional reserve banking. Run this long enough and you won't even see where this has started.
Add to the mix automation plus AI and the whole cycle is being complete, the cycle without classes/people.

What to do with classes? That's where fruition of neuropsychology, social media, universal basic income (usually at the minimum level that is required to exists plus maybe free Stadia and Netflix) are a carrot and drones/Boston Dynamics in Police forces are a stick.

The rest will be history of XXI century, not the game one.

Game hints this, that this is it's world that is about to be ours world. Tho for 'some' reasons it's never even a fully developed side story.
Maybe not to spoil it's message that resistance is futile?
 
For a big city they're all quite huge, including V's. Middle of the city and no roommates. Even more if you compare them to the average flat in Hong Kong or Tokyo.
Usually interior spaces in games are bigger than it is in reality to avoid characters getting stuck inside it. But still huge for a rockie loser merc as V.
 
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Got no problem against Porsche. He isn't rebelling against money. Moreover, he'd need money to "rebel more effectively".

I still don't get his motivation, honestly.

What does he want exactly? Destroy Arasaka completely? It's not wise, as it means strengthening the other corporations.
Explain them that they should change their methods which work perfectly? Well, it's not going to happen in the real world.
Just show people that they can go against corpos? He admits by himself that one person never can beat a system, but, again, I don't see if he tries to create his own system to change order of things.

I'm not complaining here - just trying to understand the character, that's all. And I still can't get his point - what exactly Johnny wants to achieve? Or "Never stop fighting" is his only message to the world?
 
Well just finished the game.

For some days, I felt tired. Maybe I was feeling the V tiredness of fighting. I spoiled myself with the endings... And I think I felt better. Kept playing.

My end would be the nomad one as I was playing as a nomad, but I went for the Crystal Palace ending because I wanted to stay with River. Even as a copy. Not really satisfactory, why I had to be so cold with him? I didn't want to be a legend, to be rich... only to stay with him. Living in the caravan place. I don't care at all.

@MandyZGaming I've been reading your posts and I feel you girl. River and V (and the rest of the romances too) deserves better.

I did the suicide one just to see the credits and I regret that. I cried.

I don't know if I want to play a DLC. Maybe the ones with copy V 6 months have some opportunity to save V.

I don't mind bad endings. I sacrificed myself in DAO. But this is so... pointless...
 
arasaka steals souls
it's his motivation to go against
just find "legendary johnny speech" on yt
and read line "i saw farmers ... souls"

I remember that. But as I understand, he started his rebellion before he knew about Soulkiller and the whole "steal soul" thing. First of all, he decided he wouldn't fight a corrupt war, but how exactly killing people with nuke bomb could solve the problem?
 
how exactly killing people with nuke bomb could solve the problem
i don't clear remember what rogue said during her ending in the arasaka elevator
something like that
js: "we fought for beauty"
rogue: "stop, young people always have a shit in their brains"
 
I still don't get his motivation, honestly.

What does he want exactly? Destroy Arasaka completely? It's not wise, as it means strengthening the other corporations.
Explain them that they should change their methods which work perfectly? Well, it's not going to happen in the real world.
Just show people that they can go against corpos? He admits by himself that one person never can beat a system, but, again, I don't see if he tries to create his own system to change order of things.

I'm not complaining here - just trying to understand the character, that's all. And I still can't get his point - what exactly Johnny wants to achieve? Or "Never stop fighting" is his only message to the world?

Yes! His motivation in the game is reduced to "evil corps robbed the farmers", one line, (I think it's post-motel Sunset) and "V, they want to steal our souls".

I'm saying reduced because I'm sure Mike Pondsmith had a different idea in mind. I mean, he calls the guy "like a son" in the ripper scene.

He's like a legend with no legendary qualities to me: no super-smart thinking, no abilities other characters don't have etc (e.g. Alt is a super skilled netrunner, Rogue is sly and is good with people).

I have to admit that 60% of my bearing with Johnny is Keanu and oneliners. :shrug: He doesn't go beyond "devil on the shoulder" for me. Could be so much more!
 
What does he want exactly? Destroy Arasaka completely?
I have said this already but basically: "Arasaka wants to steal our souls, V! We have to stop them!" That's about it.:shrug:
At least Johnny have a personality, compared to V who is a nobody with no agenda, no motivation, no nothing except ofcourse: "I don't want to die/I want to survive."
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I remember that. But as I understand, he started his rebellion before he knew about Soulkiller and the whole "steal soul" thing. First of all, he decided he wouldn't fight a corrupt war, but how exactly killing people with nuke bomb could solve the problem?
Johnny also said in the quest with a diehard fan that through his music he wanted people to change on the inside, like really change, so the world could be a better place or sth like this.
 
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