I think the truth is something in between. Johnny is a separate entity(he'd have to be to get disentangled in Mikoshi) , but the hallucinations are your brain struggling to process two personalities.
I think the truth is something in between. Johnny is a separate entity(he'd have to be to get disentangled in Mikoshi) , but the hallucinations are your brain struggling to process two personalities.
This is exactly how I feel after having spent the last hour or so engaged in this "debate".
It also felt like this scene from Family Guy.
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When V jacks into Mikoshi their brain is full of a mishmash of their own and Johnny's memories and personality. Alt rips their tangled memories and personalities from V's brain into an engram and then separates this engram into a separate V engram and a Johnny engram which appear in Mikoshi as personality constructs. This is the first time since Johnny was retrieved from Mikoshi and put on the biochip that he constitutes a separate entity from V. Then V or Johnny (depending on whether you chose the Star/Sun/Reaper ending) makes the decision which of their engrams gets sent back to V's body.
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I like this theory - let's run with it.
So since Johnny is part of V, not a seperate entity, is that why Johnny gets nicer towards the end of the game depending on your choices? Is that V's personality affecting Johnny on a subconscious level? Are they merging somehow?
I still think Johnny is seperate but he learns from V and that's why he changes, similarly to how people change in real life. This is also how Johnny affects V. They overlap a bit, sure though.
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Because biochip is needed to use an engram inside a body?
For me all of this was few times more convoluted than Indoctrination Theory for Mass Effect endings.
Games provided simple
info how engrams are working, why the relic 2.0 is such a bug hassle, how engrams are created and that Soulkiller killes the host.
What you do is just far fatched some shards, defy lore of this game, what Alt says, add to this your own interpretation of the mechanism of action of the biochip, neglect the fact that digital personality and memory is a digital mind so its Artificial Intelligence by definition
At the end one can even asked if Soulkiller even works or is just a pointless program
But sure I won’t be arguing any longer.
I will just wait for DLC that will just go with V wondering why a/he was turned into AI or being persecuted for this fact.
Game is just straightforward in this department Soulkiller kills soul, V is being killed and his/her engram transferred on the biochip. The end of the story.
Don't ask me, you claim that it is. And since you asked of us to strictly stick to what is said in the game and to not argue with our "head canon", I feel safe to ask of you the same: in game proof for your claim.
Sorry but there is none
You are being possessed by the Johnny’s ghost. Biochip is just mere timebomb like the one in the Escape from New York.Story of CP77
I think someone says directly, though it's been a hot minute so I could be wrong, that the apparitions of Johnny are V's mind trying to resolve having two conflicting personalities. I think this is another case of them not resolving plot and theme, though, because they very obviously want you to think of Johnny as his own character "taking over" V's body.
I think they leave it up to the player how much of the V/Johnny entity is being dominated by V or by Johnny. Saving Takemura and going with Hanako in the end implies that you resisted Johnny and made the decision on your own.
Can't you say the same thing about calling the Aldecaldos? Or even suicide ending? What makes Arasaka any diferent, other than Johnny REALLY doesnt like them. When you call Panam to say goodbye, Johnny says something like 'make sure all you do is say goodbye' , and if you do suicide, he says 'its not what I would have done'.
I was just giving examplesof 2 things that are definitely about resisting Johnny. There are others
really, that´s what he said?! When you call Judy he says something like "even I have grown fond to her"
I just checked, the actual conversation I was thinking of must have been a phone call, or dialogue, not a text message. I'm very convinced that at some point you can ask her about her and Saul and she mentions that things are going OK.
However there were a few message I found implying things with Saul are at least okay-ish, like this one when she rejoins the family (part of a conversation titled "Follow up"):
"I'd rather be in the company of that stubborn ass - you know who I'm talking about
Anyway, I think he's loosened up a bit. He's starting to realize he doesn't have to be the only voice around the campfire - it'll do us all some good."
Then later she sends a bunch of messages under the subject "We can help you.", one of them is this:
"Listen, Saul and I've been thinking about how to get this family back on its feet. We have a plan."
"But the most important thing is that we might be able to help you!"
(probably referencing their plans for raiding Arasaka, note that this is still before starting Nocturne)
(note that all these were a bit harder to follow than necessary given the out-of-order messages bug...)
Yep and after you hang up you mention that Panam wouldn't let you get a word in edgewise, and Johnny says that's for the best.
On a side note, reading about engrams, and souls and stuff, I'm thinking how much cooler it would be if the game didn't just raise the question, but let the player answer it in the game?
e.g.:
1) You say (preferably several times in the game) that Johnny is just an engram. This leads to an ending where Johnny is treated like an engram.
2) You confirm that you think that Johnny is a soul. This leads to a completely different outcome for Johnny.
[Not just giving the body to Johnny cause "hmm...what if you die in 6 months? Let's write this down!"]
PS. I really love how Detroit Become Human handles the whole "android=living being?" in the game. You get to answer by choosing certain actions throughout the whole game, and they all add up to your "software instability" counter, which then branches out the endings.
e.g.:
1) You say (preferably several times in the game) that Johnny is just an engram. This leads to an ending where Johnny is treated like an engram.
2) You confirm that you think that Johnny is a soul. This leads to a completely different outcome for Johnny.
[Not just giving the body to Johnny cause "hmm...what if you die in 6 months? Let's write this down!"]
PS. I really love how Detroit Become Human handles the whole "android=living being?" in the game. You get to answer by choosing certain actions throughout the whole game, and they all add up to your "software instability" counter, which then branches out the endings.
At the end of the call Judy says that you can always call when you need her, she´ll be there for you.
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Yeah Panam says the same thing, she tells you to sit tight she will be right there, Johnny clearly dissaprroves haha. I wish Judy had something she could do to help you. Maybe in a content patch we will get that
Wish all of them would insist on seeing V and get a proper in-person pre-final mission talk/goodbye, because they all sense that something's wrong but pretty much all except for Panam just go "anyway, see you later".
When it was first explained I interpreted it as the Relic acting as an interface between the brain and the engram. In other words, the engram contains the memories and personality in digital form. The nanites were creating new neural pathways, or connections in the form of Brain -> pathways -> Relic, so the engram could override the existing biological version of these with the digital one contained on the engram.
While true, good sci-fi fits these type of concepts in by expanding upon currently known information. Bad sci-fi contradicts currently known information or makes stuff up because it sounds cool. There is a reason entertainment expanding on or utilizing existing concepts will sometimes bring in consultants to elaborate on those concepts.
Personally, I think they should have left the DNA angle out entirely. In the Sun ending Alt never fully elaborates on why V gets 6 months to live. She boils it down to the body rejecting the new V engram. She equates it to an immune response but never explicitly says it is one. It's an analogy. The game implies Alt doesn't fully understand why it's not working. Only that it isn't working.
The DNA angle tries to fit a square peg into a round hole to make it sound cool. Instread the game should have done exactly what it does in the Sun ending and left it open ended and unknown. A simple, "Something went wrong and we don't know why. It's new tech. 6 months to live.".
This reeks of cut content. Just like how inside Mikoshi there is no unique dialogue with Panam if you romance her, I think of all places it should be there. There a real chance you are never coming back and she just says 'be yourself'. I would have loved some emotional scene here. She still got way more love than the other LIs though, so I can't complain too much.
I always second guess myself on thinking something might be cut content ever since that one dev said that a lot of what people thought were signs of cut content were actually deliberate decisions and complete.