[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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Problem with Star ending is that, grey next to black will be considered whiter than is.
Tone of the 2 other endings is not only far darker but V is mostly acting out of character and their's stories make not much sense.
In Devil you proved to be most valueble assets for 'Saka and you are being "wasted". Sure can happen, Saburo is evil and treat people like tools but he also cares for those tools if they are useful.
In Sun, that should be at least on par with Star (tho with fact that in Dont Fear the Reaper no one dies, should be even true ending) V sounds like s/he just wants to die and is trying to just shunt aside his/hers friends and LI.

All or this force people to the Star ending, since that ending can at least make some in-game/story wise sense, plus ofc Panam and Judy (not rest for River and Kerry, which is a bummer).

Despite all my gripes about the endings, I prefer the Sun (Arasaka solo) to Star simply because V is already on the mission to find the cure, not just planning to do so. And also because it's more independent; friends not carrying V's dying body around. And well, AIs just seem more thrilling to me than nomads :)

Still, it's a shame that River is very irritating in that ending. Kerry's cool.

I mean, wtf is his problem.... asking this before a suicide heist :smart:
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Still, it's a shame that River is very irritating in that ending. Kerry's cool.

I mean, wtf is his problem.... asking this before a suicide heist :smart:
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To be fair, V doesn’t tell him anything that’s going on because she’s cranked that lone wolf angst up to 11, so he can’t know it’s a suicide mission she’s going on before picking a “what are we” fight.

But they also completely botched River’s character in every ending except Devil, and in that one he’s just not happy leaving V floating in a space asylum during a 45 second phone call so the bar is set pretty low.
 
Problem with Star ending is that, grey next to black will be considered whiter than is.
Tone of the 2 other endings is not only far darker but V is mostly acting out of character and their's stories make not much sense.
In Devil you proved to be most valueble assets for 'Saka and you are being "wasted". Sure can happen, Saburo is evil and treat people like tools but he also cares for those tools if they are useful.
In Sun, that should be at least on par with Star (tho with fact that in Dont Fear the Reaper no one dies, should be even true ending) V sounds like s/he just wants to die and is trying to just shunt aside his/hers friends and LI.

All or this force people to the Star ending, since that ending can at least make some in-game/story wise sense, plus ofc Panam and Judy (not rest for River and Kerry, which is a bummer).

how are you being wasted? they are trying to own your consciousness because they find you valuable, if you leave they offer to hire you at a high price. They spent 30 days trying to cure you. Yes, it was hard, and scary, but that is just what happens based on the best care scenario available.

You guys feelings about V in the sun ending are not reflected in the ending. V does not seem like he wants to die, blue eyes points this out as being the opposite. His friends Voice messages are the same as in other endings. You guys are bringing your own personal fears/perspectives into the ending because its not explicitly V dancing.

V is on a solo mission hes not allowed to go into details about. His LI are either leaving because they would leave anyway, or saying they will miss them until they get back.
 
To be fair, V doesn’t tell him anything that’s going on because she’s cranked that lone wolf angst up to 11, so he can’t know it’s a suicide mission she’s going on before picking a “what are we” fight.

But they also completely botched River’s character in every ending except Devil, and in that one he’s just not happy leaving V floating in a space asylum during a 45 second phone call so the bar is set pretty low.

I mean, he knows she's dying, and on top of that it's also before a heist.

Sounds like "I know you're dying, but why the sour face???"

Judy leaving NC is just her following her dreams, but dunno, I'd wait till it becomes clear what happens to V next. V might die in the heist (Judy leaves), or V might just die very soon (Judy leaves), or V finds the cure and they leave together.
 
Despite all my gripes about the endings, I prefer the Sun (Arasaka solo) to Star simply because V is already on the mission to find the cure, not just planning to do so. And also because it's more independent; friends not carrying V's dying body around. And well, AIs just seem more thrilling to me than nomads :)

Still, it's a shame that River is very irritating in that ending. Kerry's cool.

I mean, wtf is his problem.... asking this before a suicide heist :smart:
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yeah, that came off wrong, but river seems like a guy who gets foot in mouth sometimes. That said, I don't think River is being told whats at stake on the mission or anything but vague information.
 
how are you being wasted? they are trying to own your consciousness because they find you valuable, if you leave they offer to hire you at a high price. They spent 30 days trying to cure you. Yes, it was hard, and scary, but that is just what happens based on the best care scenario available.

You guys feelings about V in the sun ending are not reflected in the ending. V does not seem like he wants to die, blue eyes points this out as being the opposite. His friends Voice messages are the same as in other endings. You guys are bringing your own personal fears/perspectives into the ending because its not explicitly V dancing.

V is on a solo mission hes not allowed to go into details about. His LI are either leaving because they would leave anyway, or saying they will miss them until they get back.
For me Devil ending is basically - "you get what you paid for", so I'm not mad.
Sun tho, I understand your reasoning, it's just the fact that overall vibe and how V sounds is off for me. This should be at least successful ending with V being at worst neutral, considering that Tarot Cards in this story are everything and it's not.

V is currently the "kind/queen of Afterlife" and s/he is successor of the Rouge, does V sounds like her? For me not even far from it. They sound like in the script there would be a not for VO actor - say this at best sarcastically. We get rarely even option to choose dialogues like this in the game, and here they are from beginning till end.
It's not my personal fear or not, because this is just a game, but comparing Sun and Star this is night and day, when V reasons to do Sun ending (especially Dont Fear the Reaper) could be even more paragon-ish than Star and later V still could do more good than with the Star.

Ok, i do get that this is due to the fact that game was streamlined and the whole butchered premise was that V will solo 'Saka Tower due to his/her selfishness aka path to glory , while Star is because "power of friendship because friendship is magic", but this plus the plot cancer are where the shortcomings of the writing are most evident.
 
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For me Devil ending is basically - "you get what you paid for", so I'm not mad.
Sun tho, I understand your reasoning, it's just the fact that overall vibe and how V sounds is off for me. This should be at least successful ending with V being at worst neutral, considering that Tarot Cards in this story are everything and it's not.

V is currently the "kind/queen of Afterlife" and s/he is successor of the Rouge, does V sounds like her? For me not even far from it. They sound like in the script there would be a not for VO actor - say this at best sarcastically. We get rarely even option to choose dialogues like this in the game, and here they are from beginning till end.
It's not my personal fear or not, because this is just a game, but comparing Sun and Star this is night and day, when V reasons to do Sun ending (especially Dont Fear the Reaper) could be even more paragon-ish than Star and later V still could do more good than with the Star.

Ok, i do get that this is due to the fact that game was streamlined and the whole butchered premise was that V will solo 'Saka Tower due to his/her's selfishness aka path to glory , while Star is because "power of friendship because friendship is magic", but this plus the plot cancer are where the shortcomings of the writing are most evident.



V who chooses don't fear the reaper is the most likely V to go on a solo mission and not involve their LI in it as much as possible. Johnny says the idea is born from not wanting to risk your friends, and it fits perfectly.

V who respects other's desires to risk it and be involved, is more likely to be in the star ending.

V who chooses rogue's path to sun is the one who fits the sun ending less. But it still works, because the circumstances require V to do the mission solo. Blue eyes doesn't want people to know of the mission, and the plan is to sneak on board without using the more easily executed commercial flights. There is no option for river or Kerry to help here.

You are misreading the sun ending. The sun ending is not about abandoning friends or selfishness. The path of someone who doesn't want to risk their friends lives and protect them from loss is more isolating than some one who wants to involve them in their struggles. But that doesn't mean V doesn't care.

Like I said at the end these are phone messages from when V wasn't available to speak, this doesn't mean V cut these people off or never spoke to them again. And they are largely the same in most endings.
 
To be fair, V doesn’t tell him anything that’s going on because she’s cranked that lone wolf angst up to 11, so he can’t know it’s a suicide mission she’s going on before picking a “what are we” fight.

But they also completely botched River’s character in every ending except Devil, and in that one he’s just not happy leaving V floating in a space asylum during a 45 second phone call so the bar is set pretty low.
I've come around to thinking The Devil is low key the best ending explicitly because it doesn't do anything with V after telling you you're fucked. All of the voicemails mad that you chose Arasaka feel like the consequences of choices *you the player* made instead of forcing you to be distant or fed up with NC. Plus you're buddies with Goro now, who is easily worth at least 4 or 5 Mistys.
 
I've come around to thinking The Devil is low key the best ending explicitly because it doesn't do anything with V after telling you you're fucked. All of the voicemails mad that you chose Arasaka feel like the consequences of choices *you the player* made instead of forcing you to be distant or fed up with NC. Plus you're buddies with Goro now, who is easily worth at least 4 or 5 Mistys.

think goro is worth 5 Mistys? yeah I think corpo is your lifepath
 
I'll awkwardly stall the conversation by eating my entire meal in front of Goro after he calls it shit instead of listening to Misty tell me what it means that Mercury is in retrograde every day of the week, brother.

I love that his expression gets progressively more disgusted as you eat more of that food.
 
I'll awkwardly stall the conversation by eating my entire meal in front of Goro after he calls it shit instead of listening to Misty tell me what it means that Mercury is in retrograde every day of the week, brother.

Goro is a man of many talents. Being a food connoisseur is one of them. One would be wise to heed his wisdom.

On a completely OT note, a day on Mercury takes longer than a year. Mind blown. I felt obligated to point this out since you mentioned one of the more toasty celestial objects in the solar system.
 
V who chooses don't fear the reaper is the most likely V to go on a solo mission and not involve their LI in it as much as possible. Johnny says the idea is born from not wanting to risk your friends, and it fits perfectly.

V who respects other's desires to risk it and be involved, is more likely to be in the star ending.

V who chooses rogue's path to sun is the one who fits the sun ending less. But it still works, because the circumstances require V to do the mission solo. Blue eyes doesn't want people to know of the mission, and the plan is to sneak on board without using the more easily executed commercial flights. There is no option for river or Kerry to help here.

You are misreading the sun ending. The sun ending is not about abandoning friends or selfishness. The path of someone who doesn't want to risk their friends lives and protect them from loss is more isolating than some one who wants to involve them in their struggles. But that doesn't mean V doesn't care.

Like I said at the end these are phone messages from when V wasn't available to speak, this doesn't mean V cut these people off or never spoke to them again. And they are largely the same in most endings.
When I think about this, for me the main problem with the Sun ending is that they made it both for the Rouge and Reaper one.
What would be better is to make a Rouge ending to be Temperance one, and Don't Fear the Reaper true Sun ending. It could be even harder to get - more dialogue and even missions choices checks.
And then in the true Sun epilogue V wouldn't sound so strange with some mid to hard regret, make him/her live with his/her LI, throw even some Biotechnica MS treatment protects and make the talk with MBE less vague.

I wouldn't call that V want to cut his/her LI, just that s/he sounds rather different than V we used to know. Here s/he is established character, almost like Gelart, wher before we got some options to choose different styles of answers.
 
When I think about this, for me the main problem with the Sun ending is that they made it both for the Rouge and Reaper one.
What would be better is to make a Rouge ending to be Temperance one, and Don't Fear the Reaper true Sun ending. It could be even harder to get - more dialogue and even missions choices checks.
And then in the true Sun epilogue V wouldn't sound so strange with some mid to hard regret, make him/her live with his/her LI, throw even some Biotechnica MS treatment protects and make the talk with MBE less vague.

I wouldn't call that V want to cut his/her LI, just that s/he sounds rather different than V we used to know. Here s/he is established character, almost like Gelart, wher before we got some options to choose different styles of answers.
well the problem with temperance for rogue ending, is it requires Johnny to choose his life over Vs life. It can work if V chooses, but when Johnny chooses it feels counter to his character arc.

Its actually interesting that rogue has this subtle pressure on V, that Johnny is lost because V lives, but she is extremely angry if Johnny lives.

I think temperance is Johnny's bad ending. Johnny generally chooses death before going against his beliefs. It is weird, because for Johnny/rogues arc, V can't really express Johnny's importance well. It could probably happen if rogue lived to talk about Johnny, but she's dead.

So, temperance oddly works best in any ending except the rogue ending, imo.

maybe there should have been a different ending for rogue path where Johnny gives up the body, and V honor's his memory more.
 
star is seen as a good ending because a lot of people believe escape with your lover is the right answer. Its also the ending that is most complete, in terms of character arcs. Sun ending, V is still reaching for something more. Devil Ending spends most of its time recovering illness and deciding to live or die.

The downside to this is, if they continue the story, Star would probably be the least compelling. Star V has less character growth to have, they know what they want, they mostly have achieved it. Sun V still hasn't completely found purpose/signifigance, if Johnny got them there, they weren't even in control of what happened to them. And devil V is far from reaching the pinnacle of a self serving characters goals, or one who believes in security, loyalty, success (two possible motivations for taking this path imo)

So, star isn't fulfilling for me, turning my back on the problems and the friends of night city is a betrayal. Being in a relationship with someone who doesn't get that about my V is unfulfilling. This makes sun the best path for me, because there is an option to say the mission will benefit the props of night city, and the possibility of an LI, or friends who get it.

Essentially it all depends on whether they will continue, and expand these plotlines or not, if they don't, then yes they imply a nomad life with your LI is the right answer to Vs life purpose. If they do continue, sun or devils story may be just as, if not more compelling than star.

The problem is that the game decides how V behaves simply based on your choice on that rooftop, often resulting in a V that acts contrary to how the player plays them. The outcomes might be the most "optimal" ones, but they're not necessarily the most logical ones from the player's perspective.

There are situations where there's simply no choice (eg. most of the Devil ending), and that's fine (hell, it's ideal, I'd say). The game barely goes against the players' wishes because you're in a situation where you reasonably can't make any choices. Then when you do get a choice and you pick Mikoshi the entire thing makes perfect sense, including the ending messages.

The Aldecaldos ending also mostly makes sense, since they claim to possibly have a solution for your situation. Still, I'd have preferred a choice to stick with your LI, even if that results in basically a "game over" with V passing away ~6months later. Might not be the best choice for V in the long run, but it's an obvious, and not unreasonable, choice, so it ought to be there at least (arguably same would go for Devil + return to earth)

The Sun ending on the other hand, I like less and less the more I think about it. Control over V's character, and behaviour, is mostly taken from the player and you're now told who V is supposed to be, and how she's supposed to act, after having defined V for most of the game.
Honestly we can try to justify why V acts the way (s)he does in that ending but the fact of the matter is that at that point we're no longer talking about "our" V, but about the one the writers envisioned, hence why we (or quite a few of us, anyway) suddenly have to guess at the motivations of our own character(!). That's just...ugh...
 
The problem is that the game decides how V behaves simply based on your choice on that rooftop, often resulting in a V that acts contrary to how the player plays them. The outcomes might be the most "optimal" ones, but they're not necessarily the most logical ones from the player's perspective.

The Sun ending on the other hand, I like less and less the more I think about it. Control over V's character, and behaviour, is mostly taken from the player and you're now told who V is supposed to be, and how she's supposed to act, after having defined V for most of the game.

When I was flipping through all the endings this is the one that left such a bad taste in my mouth. With "Call Panam" and "Call Hanako" you know there will be casualties, things might not go to plan, but you still know what you're getting yourself into.

On the other hand the outcome of The Sun ending felt contrived. Sure you could argue that this was foreshadowed by "The Moon" tarot that Misty reads to you but it still felt forced.

I signed up so that Johnny could raid 'Saka while I sat back and relaxed. I didn't signup to turn into some night city legend after Johnny was removed from V.

It's why I prefer The Star. But I still do admire the meaning behind The Sun.
 
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Guest 4519094

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one quick line about the sun ending, felt like it was putting V in a situation closest to what Kerry or Denny feel which is pretty awesome, and seeing how it impacted so much comments in that thread guess they pulled the "it's pretty lonely at the top" feeling really really well :D
 
When I was flipping through all the endings this is the one that left such a bad taste in my mouth. With "Call Panam" and "Call Hanako" you know there will be casualties, things might not go to plan, but you still know what you're getting yourself into.

On the other hand the outcome of The Sun ending felt contrived. Sure you could argue that this was foreshadowed by "The Moon" tarot that Misty reads to you but it still felt forced.

I signed up so that Johnny could raid 'Saka while I sat back and relaxed. I didn't signup to turn into some night city legend after Johnny was removed from V.

It's why I prefer The Star. But I still do admire the meaning behind The Sun.



Actually, V is a legend by accident in the rogue path. Basically they wake up with access to arasaka technology, Blue eyes thinking they are a bad ass, and The mercs seeing them as a legendary merc who worked with rogue on legendary mission and survived.

Got to be weird, everyone thinking your great, but your biggest achievement is a lie.
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The problem is that the game decides how V behaves simply based on your choice on that rooftop, often resulting in a V that acts contrary to how the player plays them. The outcomes might be the most "optimal" ones, but they're not necessarily the most logical ones from the player's perspective.

There are situations where there's simply no choice (eg. most of the Devil ending), and that's fine (hell, it's ideal, I'd say). The game barely goes against the players' wishes because you're in a situation where you reasonably can't make any choices. Then when you do get a choice and you pick Mikoshi the entire thing makes perfect sense, including the ending messages.

The Aldecaldos ending also mostly makes sense, since they claim to possibly have a solution for your situation. Still, I'd have preferred a choice to stick with your LI, even if that results in basically a "game over" with V passing away ~6months later. Might not be the best choice for V in the long run, but it's an obvious, and not unreasonable, choice, so it ought to be there at least (arguably same would go for Devil + return to earth)

The Sun ending on the other hand, I like less and less the more I think about it. Control over V's character, and behaviour, is mostly taken from the player and you're now told who V is supposed to be, and how she's supposed to act, after having defined V for most of the game.
Honestly we can try to justify why V acts the way (s)he does in that ending but the fact of the matter is that at that point we're no longer talking about "our" V, but about the one the writers envisioned, hence why we (or quite a few of us, anyway) suddenly have to guess at the motivations of our own character(!). That's just...ugh...

the game always decided how V acts, its always only 2-5 ways to react to any situation. V has predetermined ways of speech, and mannerisms.

People have beef with the sun ending, mostly because of beef with the LIs.

But they don't acknowledge the beef with the LIs are mostly about how the LI feels, not actually what v wants or says. Judy is working herself up to leave night city, and leave V, she's trying to blame V to make it easier. Panam Wants v to not force her to choose. River and Kerry are insecure. To be frank they seem a bit self centered when V is trying to plan a dangerous mission that may determine their life or death.(except panam, its not just about her desires)

V in sun ending has one decent chance at survival, and this mission is it. Everyone in Sun ending picked survival, so that should be a primary motivator to Vs actions after that.

Aside from the LIs V isn't doing anything crazy, V wakes up, goes to see a client about a mission that may lead to saving their life, and then goes on the first part of that mission.
 
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People have beef with the sun ending, mostly because of beef with the LIs.

It's some Grade A beef to have, though. Not having a sweet ending to fall back on for half the LIs is worth complaining about. If you're the kind of person that will pack bond with a Roomba or a rock with googly eyes (hello, yes, that's me) you probably care more about the characters in the video games than the plot itself. But when they take those characters and turn two of them into massive dinks in 2/3 endings (with the other ending being literally called Devil, implying it probably shouldn't be your safe harbor), it feels gross and grimy and really, really annoying. There's not really a sweet ending for River and Kerry to settle for the way people who care about the characters themselves can with Panam and Judy. I would have picked an ending that felt inconsistent with my V if it meant I didn't have to break up, pick a fight while I'm dying, or make all my friends except Goro hate me, except I can't because they didn't give me the option because the male love interests weren't written to have a vested interest in V's future beyond "hey wanna come to a birthday party/watch some TV shows?"
 
For me Devil ending is basically - "you get what you paid for", so I'm not mad.
Sun tho, I understand your reasoning, it's just the fact that overall vibe and how V sounds is off for me. This should be at least successful ending with V being at worst neutral, considering that Tarot Cards in this story are everything and it's not.

V is currently the "kind/queen of Afterlife" and s/he is successor of the Rouge, does V sounds like her? For me not even far from it. They sound like in the script there would be a not for VO actor - say this at best sarcastically. We get rarely even option to choose dialogues like this in the game, and here they are from beginning till end.
It's not my personal fear or not, because this is just a game, but comparing Sun and Star this is night and day, when V reasons to do Sun ending (especially Dont Fear the Reaper) could be even more paragon-ish than Star and later V still could do more good than with the Star.

Ok, i do get that this is due to the fact that game was streamlined and the whole butchered premise was that V will solo 'Saka Tower due to his/her selfishness aka path to glory , while Star is because "power of friendship because friendship is magic", but this plus the plot cancer are where the shortcomings of the writing are most evident.

I think the whole mechanic is atrocious. The greatest dissonance is on the sun ending but its present in all.
There's no reason why they couldn't have had a motivation convo/what your priority if you survive. They were just desperate to be edgy rather than reflect the player's priorities.
 
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