I experienced first Nomad and now special ending ... to be honest I more liked leaving Night CIty with Nomads and Judi. Special end is kinda much darker ... so, well ... CDPR I hope you will have some (good) continuation for our V's in the future, such stories should not end half way ...
.. my street kid Valerie want Judi back and new body too
All the endings are abominable, i'm just holding on in hope for a good post game continuation.
Yea oh man the little quest he gives!! Top3 characters i'd love to see made "savable" in future updates.
Also don't remember who commented on that earlier in the thread but both femV and Jackie's english actors confirmed they'd love more cyberpunk work in their life, might have a quick thing to show about saving Jackie if the thread keeps really really tame and nice.
oh man the little quest he gives!! Top3 characters i'd love to see made "savable" in future updates.Also don't remember who commented on that earlier in the thread but both femV and Jackie's english actors confirmed they'd love more cyberpunk work in their life, might have a quick thing to show about saving Jackie if the thread keeps really really tame and nice.
I don't think so. Both ending, which I had, seems fit well into dark future presented to us with Night City. At least for me, "V" now have her story which can be further expanded. And this is something what I felt was so missing when was so much shortened inital V introduction into NC. She (or him) also now have a strong reason to do something ... old body is available only for "limited" time.
Indeed, because this scene shows V with his/her new family leader and it's foremost a symbol for V leaving stuff behind and for not being alone anymore. If unromanced, Panam as the leader symbolizes the family and the promises and duties that come with that. If romanced, then yes, there is some subtle speciality on top one might see there (I do), but it's head canon. That scene has to work in both cases.
I however have few critical remarks towards way how is created "action part" of the Special ending:
- enemies are spawned out of nowhere ... this really is bad game mechanism
- there seems is possible use only "brute force" to pass through waves of enemies, and this is very in contrast with a way how are missions normally concipied in this game (possibility use stelath, hacking etc.)
- declining healing and removal of possibility save game reduces fun. It actually means that player makes/prepares his character to be practically unkillable and enemies are then just "cannon fodder" ... but this is issue with combat balance overall.
- is too short: its just kill, kill, kill and kill and then is end
Hmm, I think its actually really good because of what you said, its the Guns blazin, walk up to the front door, one shots all you got ending.
I think you maybe thought it was like the best ending, when its more just a different type of ending.
I just love imagining V sitting there, tapping their foot, for five long minutes, waiting for Johnny to offer to go it alone in the secret ending.
It's like the check coming at the end of dinner and expecting the other person to pay, but not wanting to say anything. Real smooth, V.
It's like the check coming at the end of dinner and expecting the other person to pay, but not wanting to say anything. Real smooth, V.
It seems unfair for V that every effort he/she puts in to find a cure for the problem by the biochip goes to waste and became pointless and sort of a big waste of time even though they had so many allies and so many places and how did ALT screw up when she knows what is going through peoples minds like wasn't she able to scan V's dying body or something. And it was hard to watch V die not once but twice in the game except for the endings where you choose the endings where V dies in 6 months. The one that came closet to a good ending was the star ending with Panam but even then ALT would be saying V dies in 6 months instead of she can live a normal life to make a happy ending short lived. At the end it feels like Johnny was the 1 that was destined to live and V was just a vessel for his return all set to take its engine back with all the fuel it needs, without Johnny's engram the vessel dies in 6 months.
We're in agreement on the way it all ties together. On the rooftop, assuming you don't blow your brains out, you're deciding who you trust most to enlist for help in solving your Relic problem. You can enlist the Nomads, Rogue/Johnny or Takemura and Hanako. The option selected leads to the ending path.
Later you are presented another choice. Leave or remain in NC. The game incorporates this choice as a consequence for your earlier rooftop decision. If you ask the Nomads for help V decides to leave NC and, as a consequence of the embedded epilogue choice, does so with the Nomads. If you cede control to Johnny and get Rogue to help V decides to remain in NC and, as a consequence, meets up with Blue Eyes and goes off to space. At this point I don't need to elaborate on the Arasaka ending. The point should be clear.
From here, sure, the game is embedding this choice/consequence pairing into the epilogue without letting you decide to enforce an idea. You picked which people to place your trust into. As a result you are now locked into consequences involving them.
I'm not sure why you're mentioning any of this here. Perhaps you think I don't recognize how it is structured. I wouldn't criticize it if I didn't.
The disappointment is the fact they structured it this way. The secondary choice/consequence pairing is a consequence of the rooftop decision. The choice itself for leaving or remaining in NC is within the epilogues. What doesn't exist is the option for the player to choose which way V goes with it. Instead the player must observe how V decides to handle it.
The context here is less important. It doesn't matter if V has to cut off their relationship with Judy or any other romance selection due to how it is structured. It doesn't matter which direction they go in the epilogue. It doesn't even matter if the rooftop decision ultimately yields a positive or negative consequence. Nor does it matter how the player interprets the endings. What matters is a choice and consequence driven game presents a choice in the epilogue to the player character but does not allow the player to pick which way this player character goes with it.
The entire point of presenting a player with choices and consequences is to let them choose and experience the results. Any time a choice is available to the player character in this type of game it should be open for the the player to choose. The player should never be forced into sitting back and watching a character they control, or are assuming the role of, make the decision for them.
You can defend it all you want. You still haven't made an effort to answer the earlier question. Do you think it's better to structure it this way? Alternatively, do you think it would be better to "pull out" this choice/consequence pairing as a consequence of the rooftop decision and present it as an independent decision? For me the second route is superior. Feel free to disagree.
As a minor addition, yes I am aware the Nomads don't have the resources to leave NC in the dust as gracefully unless you enlist their help. This isn't the only way for V to leave NC. All V has to do to leave NC is hop in a vehicle and drive. So no, it does not make logical sense to prevent V from leaving because they cannot leave with the Nomads.
Please find where I ever said unforseen consequences are bad or uncharacteristic of a choice/consequences driven RPG and quote it. I specifically said unforseen consequences are "fine" if they fit properly.
Where this particular instance of an unforseen consequence differs is it's not a spur of the moment, out of the blue surprise. It's a choice presented to the character. It's not a consequence outside the control of your character. Your character has absolute control over it regardless of what you decide on the rooftop. In a game about choices if the character has control over a choice then the player should too. Since, from an RP perspective, they are the character.
If you want specific results then yes, you must metagame. There is a vast difference between this and making the player metagame in order to influence a choice presented to the player character. A choices and consequences driven RPG forcing a player to metagame around a choice presented to the character because the game doesn't let them choose is ass backwards.
No, they did not prevent the player from making this choice so it's smoother. It doesn't happen because of some intricate design philosophy. It happened because they didn't see fit to flesh it out properly. CDPR either didn't think it was important or didn't have the time to design it appropriately. My bet is on the second one since their upper management is clearly dysfunctional.
Yes, I would be happier if the game provided this option. Nice try though.
Again, the specific context is less important. The criticism is completely isolated to the fact the game presents a choice but doesn't let the player drive the choice their character makes in the moment. V can die, their romance selection can die, you can get a sad ending, whatever. All of these would be acceptable if I had the option to choose whether V leaves or remains in NC. Instead of watching my character do it for me.
Lastly, it's not the only area where the game pulls a similar stunt. It's only getting so much attention because it's one of the more obvious examples.
I know you think I know what you know, but let me make sure, you know that Vs choice on the roof means that not following that group = no realistic chance at survival right? So its choosing death to leave NC with Judy in sun path. In star, going back to Nc is death, And in Arasaka not going in mikoshi is death.
ok, you wanted another chance to choose death, I disagree that this would not be awkward to execute. The player would have to do it before the reveal of the circumstances(blue eyes, possible cures, etc) if its going to work with LIs, Not to mention your character just told Alt that life was too important, and they couldn't give it up. But, yes, it could be done.
I acknowledge that this is a choice some people would choose. However, I don't think most of the people complaining wanted another chance to choose death. They wanted the game to be written such that they would be able to select to leave or stay in NC, and for the decision on the roof of who raids arasaka, not to determine where your only realistic chance at survival is.
To me, honestly, in this case its not a big deal. When I told alt I wanted to live instead of Johnny, its not reaching that they presented V following the path that gives the best chance for survival. So to me, it wasn't the game deciding for me. My decision that V was going to struggle to survive means that I wasn't going to go off to die because my LI was going to be lonely for awhile.
Also, it seems like this principle, that the player should always be in full control of the character, isn't as big a deal to me, or rather, I never feel like I have full control in a crpg. You basically have a limited amount of options, and you can roughly direct the character, but the vast majority of options are not available.
Hmm, I'm leaning toward an inability or an unwillingness to understand at this point. The former would likely be due to a communication disconnect or... other reasons.
The latter would be due to fanatically defending the game at all costs because it's clearly the perfect most bestest best mega ultra cool game ever.Anyways.... So, according to you if you ask the Nomads for help and don't leave NC with them the 6 months to live bit isn't ambiguous anymore and V is destined to die? Let me guess, V isn't legendary enough to meet Blue Eyes if they ask the Nomads instead of Rogue to help bust into Arasaka?
If V leaves NC without the Nomads it's the same deal and V must die, right? It's not like they could ask the Nomads for their "cure" contacts (if you helped them but made a different choice on the rooftop) or find them on their own. Contacts the game clearly indicates are a guaranteed solution, of course.
6 months to live in the Arasaka ending isn't ambiguous either, according to you? Nope, that one ensures V is going to die at the end of those 6 months. We better hop into cyberland there I guess.
Did I? Hmm.... I don't recall saying I wanted another way to kill my character. We can probably agree our bases are covered there. If my memory is right, I said I wouldn't mind it if my character died as a result of choosing to leave or remain in NC. Provided I was given this choice. Alas, I cannot make this choice because it's tied to specific endings. <-- What's being criticized.
Your first two sentences are predicated on the claim the game needs another way for the player to kill their own character. Lemme check my notes... Nope, I never said that. As we know, 1 and 2 are not equal. 2 is twice as much as 1.
The third sentence is almost there. It's progress I suppose. If you rewrite it as the following it's on point. "They wanted the game to be written such that the decision on the roof wouldn't determine whether V leaves or remains in NC.". If it had been written this way it opens up more options for both the epilogue and romance conclusions. More options = worse game right?
We're all welcome to our opinions.
We got 36 more pages before we get back to the start of the circle.
Then she will be a coward who doesn't respect V's choice and sacrifice plus she is the winner of the game with her Aldecaldos ending
Vehemently disagree. As the self centered coward never had the courage to tell the others what happened and what happened to V Panam and others will never know it was a "choice". Hence that Johnny took over and stated several times in game that is is being forced on V and V desperately trying to find out a cure.
So the arasaka chip takes over - thats all they know as he never had he courage to send them a latter/e-mail even with a brief explanation.
Yeah, basically the Special Ending feels like to copy-paste of the Repo Men’s ending from 2010, what is lacking is the revelation at the end (pending?
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The male love interests have less content and (debatably, I guess) shittier endings: Does this add more to their dimensions as characters and boost the narrative because they're not copy-pastes of the female love interests, in turn making the story feel more real and alive, or does it make people that chose male love interests feel like they were afterthoughts and is that fair?
The choice on the roof affects way more than just who you trust to handle your Johnny brain problems, making some people feel like the last part of the game is railroading you into a V personality you didn't choose (i.e. V hates Night City if you choose Nomads, even if that wasn't what was expressed through the game/V is miserable in Sun even if they keep their love interest or all they wanted through the game was to make it big): is this an accurate way of showing choice/consequences in Night City or is it oversight/lack of respect for letting people choose what their V's personality and motivation was?
Are players asking for a God Mode if they thought V was a little bit more of a blank slate and wanted more say in how V responds to situations? Are players demanding a dating sim if they thought the romances would be more balanced between the men/women or if they are hoping for more options in the future?
Do they punish you too aggressively for picking Devil ending, is there wiggle room in the motivations for picking it, some Takemura discourse on him being too lost in the 'saka sauce or whether he can come around and if he's worth picking Devil ending to avoid his other-ending voicemails.
Can they fix these complaints with post-credit DLC? Adding new endings entirely? Should they not touch them at all?
Find out next week, on Dragon Ball Z.
And of course it all kind of revolves around some meta-questions, e.g.:
- A "happy ending", which probably everyone has a different imagination of; a more of choices, so that every imaginable ending/romance/persons on top of the tank in Star ending, cuddling or not-cuddling/life in NC as the player wants it without any story boundaries; and more: was anything of that ever promised and reasonably to be expected?
- Is an unwanted consequence to a choice (e.g. ask Panam for help --> become a nomad --> leave NC) an example of too less options and some hidden compulsion? Or is the desire to have the choices to get a perfect, individual story and ending an expectation of being a godlike entity in NC, who in consequence every NPC circles around?
- Do players have an entitlement of something that the company has not promised?