[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[Fins_FinsT]

To think about it, i now realized something else about "V goes with Alt, beyond black wall" ending: Johnny's reaction to it.

He repeatedly asks V to reconsider. Why?

Is it because he respects / admires V much and wishes V to regain human body? Hardly. He knows it's ~6 months, Alt says that to V with Johnny present. No true friend would repeatedly ask you to get sentenced to death in ~6 months, now would they.

He wants to go with Alt. That's why. And he ain't going if V's going, as per Alt explanation of the choice V is making there.

What puzzles me now, though: why can't both V and Johnny go with Alt? If he wants to go with Alt, and if V choses to go with Alt, then what prevents them both go? Alt takes many engrams from Mikoshi with her, beyond the wall. What difference one extra would make? Hardly any.

So why Johnny's left behind? Is it his pride which prevents him to ask Alt? His self-preservation instinct winning, at the time? Something else?

Most curious.

 

[nadsh]

This is when Misty says 'something like death but not quite' right? I can't remember exactly.

Yeah, she picks the Hanged Man, the Magician and The Star (reversed). Which aren't so bad on their own, and there's no Death, but she says it's a really bad reading in the voicemail

Post automatically merged: Mar 4, 2021

To think about it, i now realized something else about "V goes with Alt, beyond black wall" ending: Johnny's reaction to it.

He repeatedly asks V to reconsider. Why?

Is it because he respects / admires V much and wishes V to regain human body? Hardly. He knows it's ~6 months, Alt says that to V with Johnny present. No true friend would repeatedly ask you to get sentenced to death in ~6 months, now would they.

He wants to go with Alt. That's why. And he ain't going if V's going, as per Alt explanation of the choice V is making there.

What puzzles me now, though: why can't both V and Johnny go with Alt? If he wants to go with Alt, and if V choses to go with Alt, then what prevents them both go? Alt takes many engrams from Mikoshi with her, beyond the wall. What difference one extra would make? Hardly any.

So why Johnny's left behind? Is it his pride which prevents him to ask Alt? His self-preservation instinct winning, at the time? Something else?

Most curious.

I think Johnny truly believes that joining Alt means death. Maybe not literal death, but a significant loss of self. He genuinely tells V he's scared for them when crossing the bridge, and treats V as someone who died for him in Temperance. I don't think he wants to be with Alt, he just has nothing to live for and is ready to sacrifice for V at that point.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

To think about it, i now realized something else about "V goes with Alt, beyond black wall" ending: Johnny's reaction to it.

He repeatedly asks V to reconsider. Why?

Is it because he respects / admires V much and wishes V to regain human body? Hardly. He knows it's ~6 months, Alt says that to V with Johnny present. No true friend would repeatedly ask you to get sentenced to death in ~6 months, now would they.

He wants to go with Alt. That's why. And he ain't going if V's going, as per Alt explanation of the choice V is making there.

What puzzles me now, though: why can't both V and Johnny go with Alt? If he wants to go with Alt, and if V choses to go with Alt, then what prevents them both go? Alt takes many engrams from Mikoshi with her, beyond the wall. What difference one extra would make? Hardly any.

So why Johnny's left behind? Is it his pride which prevents him to ask Alt? His self-preservation instinct winning, at the time? Something else?

Most curious.

Johnny is an animal type. He loves life, the sensations, the feeling, etc. He also promised V he would try his best to save him. V also appears to be sacrificing for Johnny, and Johnny isn't very comfortable with that.

If you do rogue ending you can make Johnny want the body though.

Essentially Johnny doesn't think being an ai engram in the net is a big win.

 

[Naglafar2183]

Yeah, she picks the Hanged Man, the Magician and The Star (reversed). Which aren't so bad on their own, and there's no Death, but she says it's a really bad reading in the voicemail

Post automatically merged: Mar 4, 2021

I think Johnny truly believes that joining Alt means death. Maybe not literal death, but a significant loss of self. He genuinely tells V he's scared for them when crossing the bridge, and treats V as someone who died for him in Temperance. I don't think he wants to be with Alt, he just has nothing to live for and is ready to sacrifice for V at that point.

What is the star reversed? Is there any text of that in game? I edited my original post with the text of the hanged man, which also sounds not great for V.

And I agree with everything you said regarding Johnny thinking going with Alt is death for V. Not literal death, but V is gone forever, ties perfectly in with Misty's tarot read at the end too.

 

[OG_VELI]

I think Johnny truly believes that joining Alt means death. Maybe not literal death, but a significant loss of self. He genuinely tells V he's scared for them when crossing the bridge, and treats V as someone who died for him in Temperance. I don't think he wants to be with Alt, he just has nothing to live for and is ready to sacrifice for V at that point.

Temperance is literally this:

That's why I think the best ending for Johnny is going with Alt.

 

[nadsh]

What is the star reversed? Is there any text of that in game? I edited my original post with the text of the hanged man, which also sounds not great for V.

And I agree with everything you said regarding Johnny thinking going with Alt is death for V. Not literal death, but V is gone forever, ties perfectly in with Misty's tarot read at the end too.

Not explicitly, the upright meaning just doesn't fit Misty's words though.
Upright Star: "The Star indicates hope for the future, inspiration and contentment. With this Major Arcana card in your Tarot spread you will find yourself feeling very positive, motivated and free. You will be feeling very serene and in tune with the universe as The Star is a card of spiritual connection. The Star is a very positive omen. "
Reverse Star: "The Star in a reversed position can indicate that you are feeling hopeless. Perhaps the difficult situations you have been through in the past have drained you of your lust for life and your faith in the universe’s plan for you. " (source)

 

[Kyrielle]

I think the issue is its an open question whether the game should be the determining factor, or the narrative vision. If the goal is to equally reward all player types, its a bad design. If the goal is to have more consistent charachters/story its actually a pretty good design.

When I was finishing my first full playthrough with my Nomad character, it felt like the Star *should* be the best ending for her, as it felt like coming full circle, from an outcast forced to go to Night City, to finding a new family and leaving Night City. The execution felt kind of lacking, but it's mostly because I felt like I didn't get to know the other Aldecados as well as I would have liked. I think it would have had more emotional impact if we could have spent more time with characters like Mitch, Carol and Cassidy before the end of the game. But of course, this wasn't a game about Nomads.

Then I played my Street Kid, and I knew that I was going to make the Sun ending her "canon," but that was a very different experience. Even if I had issues with the way we were brought to the Star ending, it still made sense for my Nomad character. The Sun ending, however, didn't feel like an appropriate ending for a V who started the game doing a favor for her buddy Pepe, who had connections with people and cared about her friends. Sun V doesn't appear to care about Night City or the people around them, even though they stayed, and that bothered me. Romanced or not, I would have liked an ending that felt fitting for my street kid. I get that the idea is that V has made it to the "top" in the Sun ending, and it's not as satisfying as they thought it would be, but when did V ever express that they wanted that? That was Jackie's dream, if anything.

The Devil ending feels consistent with the Corpo lifepath in that V always loses when they try to tread the Corpo path, so I guess it has that going for it.

 

[enkee23]

alt also acts strange
to construct js: "i read your code"
to construct v: "i cannot speak for u"
em...

Sun ending, however, didn't feel like an appropriate ending for a V who started the game doing a favor for her buddy Pepe

like hanako said: "a matter of perspective"
legendary or devil v didn't threw nomads and a bunch of civilians at the construction site and in the tower into the meat grinder

 

[Naglafar2183]

like hanako said: "a matter of perspective"
legendary or devil v didn't threw nomads and a bunch of civilians at the construction site and in the tower into the meat grinder

It is a matter of perspective for sure - Nomads have to take risks to survive and thrive. The Bakkers didn't and fell apart, and the aldecaldos are in a similar spot before V shows up.

Not raiding Arasaka with the nomads doesn't kill any Aldecaldos sure, but they were on a long slow decline before V showed up.

Are the nomads deaths worth it to get the clan out or NC for good? I think so - they died so their family could do better. Sucks for Bobby and those that died sure though.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

When I was finishing my first full playthrough with my Nomad character, it felt like the Star *should* be the best ending for her, as it felt like coming full circle, from an outcast forced to go to Night City, to finding a new family and leaving Night City. The execution felt kind of lacking, but it's mostly because I felt like I didn't get to know the other Aldecados as well as I would have liked. I think it would have had more emotional impact if we could have spent more time with characters like Mitch, Carol and Cassidy before the end of the game. But of course, this wasn't a game about Nomads.

Then I played my Street Kid, and I knew that I was going to make the Sun ending her "canon," but that was a very different experience. Even if I had issues with the way we were brought to the Star ending, it still made sense for my Nomad character. The Sun ending, however, didn't feel like an appropriate ending for a V who started the game doing a favor for her buddy Pepe, who had connections with people and cared about her friends. Sun V doesn't appear to care about Night City or the people around them, even though they stayed, and that bothered me. Romanced or not, I would have liked an ending that felt fitting for my street kid. I get that the idea is that V has made it to the "top" in the Sun ending, and it's not as satisfying as they thought it would be, but when did V ever express that they wanted that? That was Jackie's dream, if anything.

The Devil ending feels consistent with the Corpo lifepath in that V always loses when they try to tread the Corpo path, so I guess it has that going for it.

Something weird seems to have happened on the street kid path. Such that the narrative is sort of dropped and picked back up only in the sun.

I think they liked Judy's story too much, and decided to make it essentially outside the narrative, although its probably supposed to be the streetkid plotline. After that It kinda gets taken over by the Johnny plotline near the end, but Johnny's plotline isn't really particularly inline with street kid.

then in the sun ending, it kinda goes back to streetkid. with choice of

1)wantin to be a legend
2)doing it for NC (this one is vague on purpose. something like, 'I have to do it so that every thing this city gave me, and took from me, means something")
3)I'm dying

as the motivation. But none of those themes were actually developed much by Judy's story or Johnny's story.

Perhaps Judy's story used to have her or V taking over clouds and not failing as an option. Overall it comes together to make it seem like streetkid V probably lost their way, and only just remembered their goals after Johnny dies, But there's still a lot of connective tissue missing even with that idea.


As for aldecado's they try to rope you in with texts, and even an extra side mission, and some in game unique interactions/gigs if you are already cool with them, Which is cool, but they could use more, and the ones they do have, many players never experience.

devil ending is only a loss if you don't believe Arasaka will rebirth you. I don't, but I never trusted arasaka

 

[Fins_FinsT]

Yeah, she picks the Hanged Man, the Magician and The Star (reversed). Which aren't so bad on their own, and there's no Death, but she says it's a really bad reading in the voicemail

Post automatically merged: Mar 4, 2021

I think Johnny truly believes that joining Alt means death. Maybe not literal death, but a significant loss of self. He genuinely tells V he's scared for them when crossing the bridge, and treats V as someone who died for him in Temperance. I don't think he wants to be with Alt, he just has nothing to live for and is ready to sacrifice for V at that point.

There is that optional line in there when V asks Alt what Alt would do. If i remember correctly, Johnny is present at the time. Alt recommends V to go beyond the wall. There is also another line there Alt says about being netrunner herself back in the day and knowing how to survive, iirc.

If Johnny still believes that joining Alt is big loss of self or near death - then it'd mean Johnny does not believe Alt's words about it. Among them three, only Alt been living beyond the black wall (arguably, AIs _live_), so only she knows "both sides" from personal experience. And the way Johnny talks to Alt overall - i feel indicates Johnny trusts Alt completely. Which is why this version does not quite compute.

Initially i also thought Johnny's repeated attempts to stop V - is genuine care for a friend and self-sacrifice. But those inconsistencies, plus observation in my previous post, cast some doubts there.

 

[enkee23]

Are the nomads deaths worth it to get the clan out or NC for good? I think so - they died so their family could do better. Sucks for Bobby and those that died sure though.

post credits panam: "family is growing, work is pulling up"
saul: "i heard something big happens in night city, ur avocado now"
feels ok for being space douchebag or man who sold the world but was good guy before mikoshi
and i hate star post-credits panam voicemail

 

[Naglafar2183]

post credits panam: "family is growing, work is pulling up"
saul: "i heard something big happens in night city, ur avocado now"
feels ok for being space douchebag or man who sold the world but was good guy before mikoshi
and i hate star post-credits panam voicemail

You are right - resolving Panam and Saul's differences is great for the clan - you only get that voicemail if you do Panam's quest.

But they can't become a serious force and start new without that Arasaka tech. How important that is is up to the player to decide I suppose.

Why don't you like post star panam voicemail BTW?

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

There is that optional line in there when V asks Alt what Alt would do. If i remember correctly, Johnny is present at the time. Alt recommends V to go beyond the wall. There is also another line there Alt says about being netrunner herself back in the day and knowing how to survive, iirc.

If Johnny still believes that joining Alt is big loss of self or near death - then it'd mean Johnny does not believe Alt's words about it. Among them three, only Alt been living beyond the black wall (arguably, AIs _live_), so only she knows "both sides" from personal experience. And the way Johnny talks to Alt overall - i feel indicates Johnny trusts Alt completely. Which is why this version does not quite compute.

Initially i also thought Johnny's repeated attempts to stop V - is genuine care for a friend and self-sacrifice. But those inconsistencies, plus observation in my previous post, cast some doubts there.

Johnny can challenge alt, and he thinks of her plans for engrams as gobbling them up, in the rogue path ending. Johnny overall trusts alt, but he doesn't see eye to eye with her in everything. Its a not a binary thing, trust.

 

[Fins_FinsT]

Johnny can challenge alt, and he thinks of her plans for engrams as gobbling them up, in the rogue path ending. Johnny overall trusts alt, but he doesn't see eye to eye with her in everything. Its a not a binary thing, trust.

Hardly Johnny would think Alt would gobble himself up too, though? With his ego, you know? =)

 

[GVArcian]

Hardly Johnny would think Alt would gobble himself up too, though? With his ego, you know? =)

He likely expects her to chew on him for a second and then spit him out when she realizes how bad he tastes.

 

[Levanon]

Seems to me like there's a massive space between 6 months and long life.
To me a short extension would be pointless. If they are going to do DLC they should aim for something that gives V years at least, even if not a full old age lifespan.

Heh, well a couple years extra would fall under my definition of short, so we seem to actually be of like minds on this.

 

[Buckadoz]

Seeing how it's going to 1k soon, how about we talk a bit about poll results here?

Me, i am much sad seeing that 40.5% for 1st choice. So far the endings i played through personally - V goes outta NC with Panam and Judy for one, and letting Johnny gift that 5k guitar to a young "nobody" boy who dreams to become a musician for another, - are both very happy ones.

In both, V keeps going strong (i do trust Alt about that for the latter one, some reasons just above). And for both, in my game, Johnny expresses approval before parting ways with V (though in the latter one, repeatedly begging V to reconsider; knowing Johnny, it's really "begging" word really fitting here). In both, neither Johnny or V, in my opinion, cease to exist. Both survive, and given the odds, that's happy to say the least. I'd rather say - unbelievably awesome, too.

I'm always blown away by how people feel about the Temperance ending; I see Johnny getting the body as the absolute worst ending, worse than letting Arasaka win, worse than blowing your own head off. It's just absolutely repulsive to me.

And i am also sad to see that 28.8% for 3rd option. More than quarter players in this poll think the option is not available, as implied. But it is. It just takes certain choices to get that former ending i described: namely, "Panam and V with V's lover go away from NC and by all indications it's "happily ever after when they do". Yet 28.8% are either not aware about this, or fail to see it as a happy ending. This makes me sad alright - but not about the game, game's OK in this regard; about the folks who voted that. Sad, sad panda...

Yeah there it is, I'm coining Buck's Law: when someone claims the game has a good ending their odds of having played a male and romancing Panam skyrockets. Lesser Buck's Law is when it's Judy.

 

[Fins_FinsT]

Welp, apparently it's time to have a poll in the forum about how much extra time, exactly, we want CDPR to give V in the DLC.

I propose to make finely grained answers to the poll. Best counted in weeks. So, something like 201 different answer options, 1st being say "50 weeks" and last being "250 weeks". Which roughly corresponds to 1...5 years.

Best be precise telling CDPR how much extra time we want for V, or we'll have lots extra complaints after DLC's out.

/s

P.S. Yep, nothing wrong with this discussion. Nothing at all. We're all healthy individuals here. Not cynic at all. Very loving, kind individuals. Extremely nice ones, too... %)

 

[Naglafar2183]

I'm always blown away by how people feel about the Temperance ending; I see Johnny getting the body as the absolute worst ending, worse than letting Arasaka win, worse than blowing your own head off. It's just absolutely repulsive to me.

I agree - Especially if V willingly gives up the body. Slightly less terrible if Johnny takes the body, at least then you can chalk it up to Johnny being an asshole. But when V crosses the bridge and Johnny says he's scared for V, ooph. I am not sure if its worse than the suicide ending but its close.

Yeah there it is, I'm coining Buck's Law: when someone claims the game has a good ending their odds of having played a male and romancing Panam skyrockets. Lesser Buck's Law is when it's Judy.

I second this motion.