[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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That's a matter of interpretation. After all, if it's an exact copy, the copy doesn't know the difference.
Or like Johnny, it doesn't matter :D
"If the "true" Johnny is already dead, well... It's his problem, not mine !"
"I never asked myself, for me, there is just me !"
 
I meant from the POV of the original, not the copy. I thought that was obvious.

the original's point of view isn't any different from the copy's. There is no timelap between the copy being made and the original being deleted. (Or ist it even being deleted and not just "dragged and dropped" into new hardware? Not sure anymore.) The original and the copy feel exactly the same since they aren't aware of the copying process. V just continues where he left off. The original ceases to exist, but there is no difference between the copy and the original, so it doesn't even matter who the original is.

This isn't like Altered Carbon where the original an the copy diverge at some point in time and two separate human beings are created.
 
the original's point of view isn't any different from the copy's. There is no timelap between the copy being made and the original being deleted. (Or ist it even being deleted and not just "dragged and dropped" into new hardware? Not sure anymore.) The original and the copy feel exactly the same since they aren't aware of the copying process. V just continues where he left off. The original ceases to exist, but there is no difference between the copy and the original, so it doesn't even matter who the original is.

This isn't like Altered Carbon where the original an the copy diverge at some point in time and two separate human beings are created.

But if the original is gone, it doesn't matter what you do. You might as well shoot yourself as the result is the same. That was my point in the original post. If a new consciousness is created, that consciousness is it's own entity. V dies regardless, what survives is a consciousness with Vs memories and personality, a copy. From the POV of the original, existence ends.

The game never addresses this at all. Altered Carbon doesn't address it at all either.
 
But if the original is gone, it doesn't matter what you do. You might as well shoot yourself as the result is the same. That was my point in the original post. If a new consciousness is created, that consciousness is it's own entity. V dies regardless, what survives is a consciousness with Vs memories and personality, a copy. From the POV of the original, existence ends.

The game never addresses this at all. Altered Carbon doesn't address it at all either.
So you die when you blink? when you sleep?

You are expressing the idea of discontinuity of conciousness. which is neither right or wrong, but a position in an on going dialogue. the game, and indeed Altered Carbon, suggest continuity of conciousness, sadly only in passing but it's not more or less valid for doing so. there is not absolute answer since we can't even really prove much of anything about conciousness.
 
They made a sandbox and then give you a tickling clock to push you to faster resolution. Then the only decisions that matter were doing side quests to get a side on your team and picking which side assaults a building with you.

Then basing your character motivations and throwing them away and implanting other motivators because of who you chose to assault a building with.

When everything boils down to how you assault a building and renders all other things meaningless.... then all your actions in part become meaningless.
I find the 6 month plot cancer cheap and tacky but that was blown out of the water by my revulsion for the way they rendered all choices meaningless by boiling your character's ending fate and characterisation down to a mission choice of who they want to risk getting killed.
Unless there's some post ending expansion that will try and suture up that mess i don't see any motivation to re-engage with Cyberpunk.
 
So you die when you blink? when you sleep?

You are expressing the idea of discontinuity of conciousness. which is neither right or wrong, but a position in an on going dialogue. the game, and indeed Altered Carbon, suggest continuity of conciousness, sadly only in passing but it's not more or less valid for doing so. there is not absolute answer since we can't even really prove much of anything about conciousness.

You die when your brain gets fried by soulkiller. Alt says your neural network is a blank slate now. That's pretty dead to me. You can "slot in" V or Johhny, but the original V is dead and, AGAIN, this is never addressed at all.

Also, proving consciousness is a by-product of brain activity is incredibly easy. It's proven every day by people getting medically induced unconsciousness for surgery. Likewise, your sense of self is tied to your neural network which is again easily proven by the fact that people who suffer brain damage lose parts about themselves and sometimes change as a person completely.
 
There is no reason to explain when there are already different points of views in the game.
- For Saburo/Johnny, nothing change.
- For Alt, all is different.
No "real" truth, just matter of opinion/interpretation, everyone is free to think/trust whatever/whoever he want :)
Exactly. They could have explored this a bit more, since it is one of th core topics of Cyberpunk philosophy, but you can hardly say that the original/copy problem wasn't adressed at all. My take is, V accepts Johnny as a "true" person, so why should he not consider a copy of himself as valid, also? I guess that is ahy he doesn't have a major breakdown about it.
 
There is no reason to explain when there are already different points of views in the game.
- For Saburo/Johnny, nothing change.
- For Alt, all is different.
No "real" truth, just matter of opinion/interpretation, everyone is free to think/trust whatever/whoever he want :)

That wasn't like the point at all.

Nevermind.
 
No "real" truth, just matter of opinion/interpretation, everyone is free to think/trust whatever/whoever he want :)
Damn it would be nice if the game acknowledged that difference in a real way and let us express our opinion of Soulkiller instead of forcing V into apparently accepting one interpretation and ruining the finale of the game for anyone who thought otherwise
 
All the seven ends are really dark and sad. Like really. we need a happy ending.


Edit: What do you think of the alternative endings, all of them are sad, and from what I see that people want at least one a happy one, atleast like a Top secret-Easter Egg, at least to achieve it with legendary clothes and level 50, or at least in extreme hard mode. What would be the best idea to fit?
I agree, the Star ending is like, a sort of a happy ending, but very uncertain...

I want to know why doesn't Johnny go back/stay with Rogue after you choose to give him the body after the Don't Fear the Reaper choice. Rogue is still alive and dwelling in Afterlife in that version, so I want to know why doesn't Johnny go back for/to her...
 
All the seven ends are really dark and sad. Like really. we need a happy ending.


Edit: What do you think of the alternative endings, all of them are sad, and from what I see that people want at least one a happy one, atleast like a Top secret-Easter Egg, at least to achieve it with legendary clothes and level 50, or at least in extreme hard mode. What would be the best idea to fit?
Two alternate endings using only what's in place from the story currently:
  • Johnny is isolated early on via a mix of blue pills and Judy's help using Hellman's plans. end game is a new 1 on 1 fight with Johnny in the virtual space. if you win : due to Judy's help the DNA conversion isn't terminal yet but will need help getting fixed and it's unclear it will work. This would be the Judy allied ending. This would've the closest to a typical happy ending as while V's not out of the woods they're going to be potentially more okay than others paths .
    • if you lose : a more destructive version of the Temperance happens where an angry Johnny is unleashed into the city and since he's been cooped up there's no connection to V in there.

  • Militech's agent from the flathead mission's ending approaches to assist V early in act 2. V would then be given a contact to starts helping Militech in exchange for more time on the clock while being their eyes on the street. If you do all their missions, you on the rooftop now get can ask for help to organize them to strike Mikoshi and either steal or destory it. Would be a happier variant of the devil Ending, but still clearly V is working for the machine and the dangers that come with it. This would be similar to what the Sun is for Street Kids and Star is for Nomad for a Corpo V.
    • Johnny can be pissed at you but you can also throw it back in Johnny's face as you find out that Militech's people helped him and Roguethat night in Arasaka (this is Canon as this is what happens in the tabletop), even mention how he forgot Morgan Blackhand when he tries to get in your face about Jackie. and top it off with How it's clear he's willing to use corpos to get what he wants so you're doing the same.
 
Two alternate endings using only what's in place from the story currently:
  • Johnny is isolated early on via a mix of blue pills and Judy's help using Hellman's plans. end game is a new 1 on 1 fight with Johnny in the virtual space. if you win : due to Judy's help the DNA conversion isn't terminal yet but will need help getting fixed and it's unclear it will work. This would be the Judy allied ending. This would've the closest to a typical happy ending as while V's not out of the woods they're going to be potentially more okay than others paths .
    • if you lose : a more destructive version of the Temperance happens where an angry Johnny is unleashed into the city and since he's been cooped up there's no connection to V in there.

  • Militech's agent from the flathead mission's ending approaches to assist V early in act 2. V would then be given a contact to starts helping Militech in exchange for more time on the clock while being their eyes on the street. If you do all their missions, you on the rooftop now get can ask for help to organize them to strike Mikoshi and either steal or destory it. Would be a happier variant of the devil Ending, but still clearly V is working for the machine and the dangers that come with it. This would be similar to what the Sun is for Street Kids and Star is for Nomad for a Corpo V.
    • Johnny can be pissed at you but you can also throw it back in Johnny's face as you find out that Militech's people helped him and Roguethat night in Arasaka (this is Canon as this is what happens in the tabletop), even mention how he forgot Morgan Blackhand when he tries to get in your face about Jackie. and top it off with How it's clear he's willing to use corpos to get what he wants so you're doing the same.

Cyberpunk doesn't need happy endings, especially for the protagonist.
 
Cyberpunk doesn't need happy endings, especially for the protagonist.
What did Mike originally say in his first video about cyberpunk and it's world? this is also in Cyberpunk Red...

Cyberpunk isn't about saving humanity, its about saving yourself. - Mike Pondsmith @ 1:39
A good Cyberpunk game isn’t about saving the world: it’s about saving yourself. - Mike Pondsmith on Page 392 of Red's core book

I'll take the guy who's been making the game for almost longer than many of us have been alive, over your word.

so Yes even if it's a small victory Cyberpunk DOES need a happy ending because right now it's not even about saving V, it's about saving sliverhand and coming to grips that V regardless of how you go about it is going to die unless you forfeit V's humanity to the corporation, which doesn't sound like saving anyone.
 
What did Mike originally say in his first video about cyberpunk and it's world? this is also in Cyberpunk Red...




I'll take the guy who's been making the game for almost longer than many of us have been alive, over your word.

so Yes even if it's a small victory Cyberpunk DOES need a happy ending because right now it's not even about saving V, it's about saving sliverhand and coming to grips that V regardless of how you go about it is going to die unless you forfeit V's humanity to the corporation, which doesn't sound like saving anyone.

Trying to save yourself and actually doing it are not the same thing. Also, walking away alive isn't always a happy ending. The Star ending woulda been better if Panam had died.
 
I want to know why doesn't Johnny go back/stay with Rogue after you choose to give him the body after the Don't Fear the Reaper choice. Rogue is still alive and dwelling in Afterlife in that version, so I want to know why doesn't Johnny go back for/to her...
Maybe I'm wrong,
But in the ending "don't fear the reaper", Johnny didn't have the important dialogue with Rogue. So he "stay" (and Rogue too) with the "bad ending" of the Drivin' in North Oak.
The opposite to the Sun Ending, where he have a kind of reconciliation with Rogue but where we all know the fate of Rogue (a "suicide" mission help to reconsiliate in some sort)

No "good" ending for him :)
 
Trying to save yourself and actually doing it are not the same thing. Also, walking away alive isn't always a happy ending. The Star ending woulda been better if Panam had died.
V accepts they're dying rather explicitly, only in the Star Ending do they even talk about trying to find some way to keep going and that seems more at Panam's pushing. How is it saving themselves at that point?

I'm going to ask you where in any ending is the idea V is going to save themselves played out? hell in the "Let Johnny keep it" endings, it in fact is the opposite.
 
V accepts they're dying rather explicitly, only in the Star Ending do they even talk about trying to find some way to keep going and that seems more at Panam's pushing. How is it saving themselves at that point?

I'm going to ask you where in any ending is the idea V is going to save themselves played out? hell in the "Let Johnny keep it" endings, it in fact is the opposite.

What?
 
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