[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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because they're the creators favorites, both at RTG and at CDPR, they're also the examplar characters, Johnny is THE Rockerboy, Morgan(who is an odd duck out still in 2077), Santiago and Rogue are THE Solos, Rache, Spider & Alt are THE netrunners, Saburo Arasaka and his family is THE corpos/execs. If you pick up cyberpunk 2013 (if you can find a copy), 2020 and Red, all of them star those characters to a certain point, showing both favors by the writers and more over what "high level" can look/be like. and it's only more ridiculous in the now retconned out of Canon, Cybergeneration where those characters became literally mid level superheroes leading a generation of basically a mix of mutants, metahhmans and iron man styled teenagers against the corporate machine. To top it off due to cybernetic enchantments and other health treatments, 80 (as rogue and Adam would be) is the new 50, 100 is the new 70 and 150 is the new 80 (as Saburo himself shows)

But why not make the game 2025 or something then and have the story revolve around the aftermath of the tower attack without retconning. I said nothing about their age so I have no clue what you raging about.

Instead of this stupid "you have a time limit" story that makes no sense when you don't actually have a time limit, you could have a job to steal Johnny's engram for Rogue as the final mission. Not as a magical biochip, but just the engram. Or something else along those lines.
 
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But why not make the game 2025 or something then and have the story revolve around the aftermath of the tower attack without retconning. I said nothing about their age so I have no clue what you raging about.

Instead of this stupid "you have a time limit" story that makes no sense when you don't actually have a time limit, you could have a job to steal Johnny's engram for Rogue as the final mission. Not as a magical biochip, but just the engram. Or something else along those lines.
For several reasons:
  • Lore reasons: Night City's business district was rubble due to that Nuke from 2023 and would remain rubble until the 2060s when the crater was finally filled by Arasaka's rebuilding efforts. This plus the corporate war that was raged world wide cut off technological progress to the night city area for a while. it'd not be until the 2040s when night city was considers "stable" again and heading toward an up tick leading to 2077's state. Also gives the character of V enough distance from the fame of 2020's night city to make sense why they've never heard of Johnny /only heard of Johnny as a terrorist. I say this as Samurai was THE band of Night City during the 2020s, one of those bands where even if you never liked them, several of your friends did.
  • Real life reasons: a decent bit of technology, psychology and social views in the 2020s of cyberpunk tabletop is outdated by our standards. also unlike when cyberpunk 2020 originally came out, the 2020s wasn't a far off distant date, they were less than 8 years away from moment the game was announced and as we'd find out, starting the year the game released. Meaning they wanted to logically introduce both new technologies and societal progress that parallel the nearly 30 years of progress our world has made, as well as introduce new highly advanced scifi tech still impossible by our standard and decided on a date far out enough to seems plausible given the lore. Also the general public probably wouldn't be down to play war torn night city with a giant nuclear crater in the center of town, especially if they knew the person responsible was the guy you're talking to half the game.
Now I only brought up age to show how in Cyberpunk the age of a person is a minor quibble and that's why even wiht it being 50 years a lot of those same people are kicking. not raging on about it

Yeah I also have problems with the faux tickling clock aspect
 
V married Takemura, they had several children and lived happily ever after ...
V married Panam, they had several children and lived happily until ...
Please, not that.
For my part, I have explored 5 endings and in any case there is still life and therefore hope. The story began this way ...
And let's go.
 
For several reasons:
  • Lore reasons: Night City's business district was rubble due to that Nuke from 2023 and would remain rubble until the 2060s when the crater was finally filled by Arasaka's rebuilding efforts. This plus the corporate war that was raged world wide cut off technological progress to the night city area for a while. it'd not be until the 2040s when night city was considers "stable" again and heading toward an up tick leading to 2077's state. Also gives the character of V enough distance from the fame of 2020's night city to make sense why they've never heard of Johnny /only heard of Johnny as a terrorist. I say this as Samurai was THE band of Night City during the 2020s, one of those bands where even if you never liked them, several of your friends did.
  • Real life reasons: a decent bit of technology, psychology and social views in the 2020s of cyberpunk tabletop is outdated by our standards. also unlike when cyberpunk 2020 originally came out, the 2020s wasn't a far off distant date, they were less than 8 years away from moment the game was announced and as we'd find out, starting the year the game released. Meaning they wanted to logically introduce both new technologies and societal progress that parallel the nearly 30 years of progress our world has made, as well as introduce new highly advanced scifi tech still impossible by our standard and decided on a date far out enough to seems plausible given the lore. Also the general public probably wouldn't be down to play war torn night city with a giant nuclear crater in the center of town, especially if they knew the person responsible was the guy you're talking to half the game.
Now I only brought up age to show how in Cyberpunk the age of a person is a minor quibble and that's why even wiht it being 50 years a lot of those same people are kicking. not raging on about it

Yeah I also have problems with the faux tickling clock aspect

Well I dunno, not versed in the TT lore, just know bits and pieces. Anyways, I think it was a mistake making them as prominent as they were. It distracted from the story. It shoulda been about V, he/she is the one dying. Not "Johnny and pals"
 
Look at the words I'm replying to, he said the 80s I was replying to work of the 80s. It's known Mike took inspiration of those but even then clearly took his own bend to them.
Here is from the man himself: "Cyberpunk was a warning, not an aspiration," says Cyberpunk creator Mike Pondsmith

For what I have studied roots of tabletop game, it explores some of darker possibilities of (then future) with sometimes humors twists, but it's pretty consistent with literature and looks like relevant cyberpunk work, I really didn't knew about back in the day.

Didacgomez quotes give very clear picture how things can end up going. Also themes covered in these forums many times

it does have noir tho, just not in the typical girl walks into the PI Type noir,
I do wonder how much you know about Noir and its background.

Here is something from Dashiell Hammett, also referenced in game. "Around 1917, Hammett was sent to Montana, where he infiltrated the ranks of striking copper miners. He and other Pinkertons were apparently offered $5, 000, a bloody fortune at the time, to help kill Frank Little, the Wobbly (Industrial Workers of the World) leader organizing the miners. Little was lynched from a Butte train trestle without Hammett's help." Dashiell Hammett's legacy lies not only in his writing, but in his living -- rough, wild and on the edge (sfgate.com)

except in Del's quest, there's options to save everyone invovled, save just the original, or do something "new" by hybridization which on Stark contrast you have V gets the body but only has 6 months(Star, Sun and backing out of Devil) , Johnny gets the body and gets to live anew(Temperance) or ultimately no one goes on with the body (Devil if you sign and self harm).

You are contradicting yourself. You also wrote:
so yeah I'd actually say 3 endings V isn't alive. it's heavily implied that the construct presenting itself as Alt is going to pull a borg (assimilate into our collective)



They could have just.... not used characters from 2020. The TT game isn't popular at all, nobody would care. All the characters like Rogue, Kerry and Johnny feel SO forced and out of place. Like, why even make it 2077 when 90% of the characters in the game are from 2020?

Should have been references at most.
Johnny and Rogue story line is part of themes covered in game and I really don't see how that could have worked out without Rogue. Kerry is very good character, far more life like than some people might expect.


It's okay not to like the game or endings, but disputing supposed original vision of creator based on, I don't know what, is something I find difficult to understand when creator of original was onboard designing CP 2077.

I don't know, there's this game called Ascent, it has the visuals and few words for "cyberpunk" background. I haven't played it and not going to, but there's always someone making that kind of game in various settings. I'm very glad that CP 2077 does something different.
 
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Johnny and Rogue story line is part of themes covered in game and I really don't see how that could have worked out without Rogue. Kerry is very good character, far more life like than some people might expect.


It's okay not to like the game or endings, but disputing supposed original vision of creator based on, I don't know what, is something I find difficult to understand when creator of original was onboard designing CP 2077.

I don't know, there's this game called Ascent, it has the visuals and few words for "cyberpunk" background. I haven't played it and not going to, but there's always someone making that kind of game in various settings. I'm very glad that CP 2077 does something different.

It just feels like Johnny and his friends take over the show too much. It feels like "we have to have these characters take major part in the story". They feel forced onto the story.

It was the same way with Witcher 1 and certain characters.

Just my personal opinion, nothing more.
 
It just feels like Johnny and his friends take over the show too much. It feels like "we have to have these characters take major part in the story". They feel forced onto the story.

It was the same way with Witcher 1 and certain characters.

Just my personal opinion, nothing more.
Don't remember much from the Witcher 1 and I didn't knew anything about background but that there are novels. It was long ago but for me it was surprisingly good fantasy game and factor that contributed to that was that character motives and political angles made sense.

Cyberpunk tabletop game for me, I learned about that at some point, but it was way later than I read genre defining novels. I knew about characters via leaflet that came with physical edition with a discs. Things can feel this or that, can't agree or disagree as that's something very subjective, but these characters have a purpose, or it could be even said function in game and dynamics between these NPC's like Rogue / Johnny and Johnny / Kerry to Johnny / V / Kerry all tell something that's there for players to decide if topics covered there are something in that world or relevant to ours too.
 
Don't remember much from the Witcher 1 and I didn't knew anything about background but that there are novels. It was long ago but for me it was surprisingly good fantasy game and factor that contributed to that was that character motives and political angles made sense.

Cyberpunk tabletop game for me, I learned about that at some point, but it was way later than I read genre defining novels. I knew about characters via leaflet that came with physical edition with a discs. Things can feel this or that, can't agree or disagree as that's something very subjective, but these characters have a purpose, or it could be even said function in game and dynamics between these NPC's like Rogue / Johnny and Johnny / Kerry to Johnny / V / Kerry all tell something that's there for players to decide if topics covered there are something in that world or relevant to ours too.

A lot of stuff in Witcher 1 was shoehorned in just because they were "cool stuff from the books". Like Shani was completely out of place and a completely different character than she was in the books.

I'm not crapping on CDPR for it, it was their first game afterall, just that CP2077 feels like it has some of that in it. Characters are there just to be there.
 
A lot of stuff in Witcher 1 was shoehorned in just because they were "cool stuff from the books". Like Shani was completely out of place and a completely different character than she was in the books.
You keep saying that, but as someone who never read the novels, didn't knew about characters, why would it matter to me? Same thing with cyberpunk 2077.
I'm not crapping on CDPR for it, it was their first game afterall, just that CP2077 feels like it has some of that in it. Characters are there just to be there.
So how exactly Johnny and Rogue story line which is about exploring yet another big ideal that can actually be something quite toxic, would work without Johnny and Rogue and their established history?
 
You keep saying that, but as someone who never read the novels, didn't knew about characters, why would it matter to me? Same thing with cyberpunk 2077.
Then why are you arguing?
So how exactly Johnny and Rogue story line which is about exploring yet another big ideal that can actually be something quite toxic, would work without Johnny and Rogue and their established history?
Why does it need to be Johnny, a dude who died 54 years ago, in the first place?
 
Sorry, but what part of "established history" you didn't understood?

They had to rewrite this vaunted "established history" to bring him back lol. That's how much they care.

Let me remind you, Johnny was CUT IN HALF by Smasher and his auto-shotgun. One can make the same argument about Geralt. He was impaled by a pitckfork and was bleeding out when the last book ended.
 
Why does it need to be Johnny, a dude who died 54 years ago, in the first place?
Maybe because Johnny was present in all versions of Cyberpunk and was/is (and maybe will stay) a "pillar" of Cyberpunk since the beginning.
Johnny is part of the furniture as it is said in French :)
 
Maybe because Johnny was present in all versions of Cyberpunk and was/is (and maybe will stay) a "pillar" of Cyberpunk since the beginning.
Johnny is part of the furniture as it is said in French :)

He was cut in half by an auto-shotgun and died. No Soulkiller was involved at all, he just died.
 
He was cut in half by an auto-shotgun and died. No Soulkiller was involved at all, he just died.
Like I said, CDPR have toke some liberties...
But also, in my opinion, it's way more interesting to have in your head a "dude" like Johnny, a pretty ambiguous guy that you can hate, love, both or maybe change your mind about him throughout story than a "really bad guy" or a "really good guy" (both would be uninteresting and boring as hell...)

Anyway, if you don't like the story or simply the game, it's too late... CDPR won't rewrite Cyberpunk now. Don't play it, don't discuss about it and move on to another game ;)
 
Like I said, CDPR have toke some liberties...
So which is it? Does the TT lore and characters matters or not? Cause you can't say it's important only when it suits your point of view, that's childish.

There's also far better characters that were ACTUALLY soulkilled. Like Kei Arasaka. Yorinobus and Hanakos brother.
 
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Here is from the man himself: "Cyberpunk was a warning, not an aspiration," says Cyberpunk creator Mike Pondsmith

For what I have studied roots of tabletop game, it explores some of darker possibilities of (then future) with sometimes humors twists, but it's pretty consistent with literature and looks like relevant cyberpunk work, I really didn't knew about back in the day.

Didacgomez quotes give very clear picture how things can end up going. Also themes covered in these forums many times
Yes I know he said that, you don't need to tell me that. I never said it was something to aspire to but am pointing out that cyberpunk (the table top) was made at the Sametime as the person I quoted in the reply that you quoted the reply to who was mentioning tropes being ultiized in cyberpunk 2077 being an invention of the 80s. Go back to the quote I'm quoting there. edit:Oh wait that was you who said "sometimes went down in the cyberpunk novels that defined the genre back in the 80's." which my point was that cyberpunk 2013 was made at the same time.
I do wonder how much you know about Noir and its background.

I was using the section you quoted as an example of common noir tropes.

You are contradicting yourself. You also wrote:
Nope, I'm not Because I'm talking about.
Temperance(V goes behind the black wall) , Devil(V gets engrammed) and Self harm (V doesn't take another step) endings in the latter example. If there's a contradiction there please let me know.
I don't know, there's this game called Ascent, it has the visuals and few words for "cyberpunk" background. I haven't played it and not going to, but there's always someone making that kind of game in various settings. I'm very glad that CP 2077 does something different.
you're missing out,Ascent feels like a group of harden Solos dropped into the worse combat zones combined into one living hell experience.
 
To cut the chase. I don't see any problems with people not liking the endings, they are bleak to say at least. Game covers very mature themes, way beyond visual aspects. Now endings are part of that exploration and while how different people feel about is a matter of subjective experience, story pieces having a function isn't. It's then different debate if people like or not about the outcome. Endings also supplement each others, like Panam and V work because it can easily be argued that they aren't perfect.

I don't understand whatever moving goal posts, what is cyberpunk or Noir tropes (in wrong context). What is established, how it's used when creator himself was on board is supposed to achieve. It's not our game, we didn't create anything, we don't own anything about it.

you're missing out,Ascent feels like a group of harden Solos dropped into the worse combat zones combined into one living hell experience.
Cyberpunk 2077 was never going to be that game. Different strokes to different folks, nothing wrong with that.
 
Cyberpunk 2077 was never going to be that game. Different strokes to different folks, nothing wrong with that.
Yeah just mentioning the ascent is a good game regardless. not that I wanted 2077 to be that, in fact I wanted more from the media and nomad side of things.

edit: to the rest of your message, I was talking about snow crash when I mentioned noir tropes since someone mentioned that snowcrash's takes on things deviated from normal noir tropes in common Cyberpunk, it was tangent that got out of hand.

I personally still am bleh on the endings and feel there needed to be more options.
 
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