[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[motionblur]

So I bought and played the game only a few days ago, for the first time. I am a little unsatisfied with the endings as well and I really hope for a DLC of some sort. But to be fair, I also think it is mostly people who were unsatisfied with the ending who will also go the extra mile to also seek out a forum discussion and post about it. It is a bubble in its own.

That being said: I accept the endings. Its CDPR's story - so it' also their choice. I got the 6 month to live ending with Pananm and that's fine. Game is awesome no matter what. But as it's an open world game with a lot of freedom in choice I'd also would have wanted to see the option for a positive ending. Even if that would mean V can transfer the 'mostly correct' ingram into a new body (hey - at least then we could finally change the appearance again ) or Johnny would take up a permanent space in V's head.
Sure, the world is meant to be dark and unforgiving and I am fine with this, if this means there is just an overwhelming majority of bleak endings. Arasaka are an evil company society is in a bad spot and the endings reflect that. It's just that the options for a better ending ARE there. Yet still the player dies, no matter what.

Why I think there should be a happy-ish ending option: Replayability. Remove hope and people lose interest.
Purely from a game design standpoint it's messed up to go back into a game you know you are going to lose, no matter what. And not just in the "the city screws you over" way of losing - but simply knowing that you are playing out an unchangeable fate. Hope is a driving factor all through the game. Sure, you get punched in the face repeatedly and many decisions will screw you but it's there. The ending removes it, entirely. No reason to go back into a hopeless fight.

I guess the other problem that just really bugs me, if there are decisions the player could make to completely block any good ending - that would be fine. It's just so disappointing that every decision and every event that sets the player on the course to death is made by the game itself. If I felt I messed up the possibility for a true happy ending myself then at least that's on me.

 

[northwold]

Mind–body dualism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Just a little light reading for the "V's body matters", "no it doesn't" debate... :-D

There's a little easter egg directly on this question within the game, with the band name 'Cartesian Duellists' (of Resist and Disorder fame).

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Death is imposed the moment we're born.

Sophism.
Death in C2077 doesn't result either from the sum of the results of your choices nor from a congenital cause.
Death in C2077 result from forced choices.

So still makes a whole lots of differences.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Sophism.
Death in C2077 doesn't result either from the sum of the results of your choices nor from a congenital cause.
Death in C2077 result from forced choices.

So still makes a whole lots of differences.

V's death result of V's choice (story driven). i.e, a simple "unknow" and "poor" merc who want to become a Night City legend (and rich obviously) by stealing the most precious possession (Saburo's words) from the most powerful corporation in the world. So it finally end like for almost all the Night Legends, to the graveyard.
For everything else after that, where the player has the "choice", it's like the very well said @andrewdilley (I think), it's to try to find a way to cheating death, which is futile

 

[SteelDragon2050]

Sophism.
Death in C2077 doesn't result either from the sum of the results of your choices nor from a congenital cause.
Death in C2077 result from forced choices.

So still makes a whole lots of differences.

Deny it all you like, but it's the truth. From our very creation, death can take us at any given moment. One can only hope to delay the inevitable. There's no question of if we'll die, merely of when.
Back on topic, i've only gotten the Panam ending with male V, personally (I keep creating new characters, it's a bad habit) but i've seen them all. As i've said, the only one i truly would say i dislike is Devil.

 

[KaliSharma]

I enjoyed playing a corpo-rat and being shoved into all sorts of interesting schemes and epic failures that have nothing to do with me. It indeed captures the feeling of working for a mega corporation, good and bad.

Well, midway through I made a lot of friends but at the end when Arasaka offered me the grand chance to fix my own problems I jumped at it because this is what I would do as a corpo-rat! No sense bothering Panem, no sense putting her family in danger, delete Johnny's engram, F the doctors' prediction about the 6 months to live, and the last words of my first playthrough made me smile.

Hanako said "You're welcome to work with Saburo and myself, you will be generously compensated. 6 months is a short time. Make full use of it." - as what I remembered.

It's not a sad ending to me but a happy one.
Having a corp's payroll as a special agent and relative freedom to do as Arasaka pleased, and access to preem tech that may help me? Why not?

"Die like a legend" to me feels like this. Didn't matter if it's with Arasaka principles - a Japanese corp would reward loyalty and strength, and also the sense of duty to do counter-intel work exactly as it should, going undercover to reveal who is the real problem here. Abernathy and the rest of the middle management are now small fry under me, and with Mr Smasher gone for the count thanks to generous application of a 1000 DPS cattle prod, they'll be sure to need a new top merc for all the usual wetwork.

I have a feeling this V, unpopular ending though she may has chosen, will last much more than 6 months.
Doctors' predictions have known to been wrong before.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Hanako said "You're welcome to work with Saburo and myself, you will be generously compensated. 6 months is a short time. Make full use of it." - as what I remembered.

It's the most "ironic" message in the end credits in the game
"You're nothing, but it's a shame you'll waste your remaining time to do nothing. We'll pay you well"
(like if V could take his/her money in the grave...)

Abernathy and the rest of the middle management are now small fry under me

If I remember, according to Hellman, Albernathy "commit a suicide" due to stress... (In short, Yorinobu kill her).

 

[Restlessdingo32]

It's about degree and for me it's really plausible scenario that they they just abandon V not wanting to put any more resources for solving V's problem and Mikoshi option isn't really their goal, they could have done that if they wanted to, as they are as seen many times over in game, about consent if they really want something.

Saburo has strategy to plan, first step was propaganda, what V can see on tv. There are resources, troops, gear and supply lines to think to form strategy and tactical plans to make to carry out that strategy not forgetting to political game and running Arasaka corporation, though Hanako might be more involved in the latter, but it's still Saburo who calls the shots. In the big picture, it's as plausible that that they aren't manipulating V to take the contract and become their property, rather than making an excuse for not giving a damn any further.

Don't think we can know for sure either way.

The uncertainty only "works" if more than one of the available options are deemed reasonable. The value comes from pondering which option is true. Chances are high you're not going to do much of it if one option is viewed as the obvious truth.

For whatever reason I didn't view the Devil as A or B. Instead it was definitely A. Too much of the the information known about the setting, megacorps, Arasaka specifically, V's interactions with them and the events along the way favored a single option. Arasaka fully intended to use V to get what they want. Once they had done so they decided to pounce on the opportunity to exploit V even further to progress their own agendas.

It's not as if this was held back until later either. It could have worked if it did appear multiple possibilities were possible until the big reveal. I didn't see it this way. Start to finish it was clear where it was going for V. I won't say my view of the matter is how it is. It's all good if others saw it differently.

None of the above is to meant to say the Devil was a "bad" ending either. At least in terms of how it fit the narrative. I thought it was one of the better fits out of the available endings. Although, to me the story was like a book, TV show or movie where the main characters make poor decisions, end up in compromised situations and attempt to dig themselves out of it. Over and over again. With much of the success in the digging out stage a result of luck more than choice.

 

[CS554]

The uncertainty only "works" if more than one of the available options are deemed reasonable. The value comes from pondering which option is true. Chances are high you're not going to do much of it if one option is viewed as the obvious truth.

For whatever reason I didn't view the Devil as A or B. Instead it was definitely A. Too much of the the information known about the setting, megacorps, Arasaka specifically, V's interactions with them and the events along the way favored a single option. Arasaka fully intended to use V to get what they want. Once they had done so they decided to pounce on the opportunity to exploit V even further to progress their own agendas.

It's not as if this was held back until later either. It could have worked if it did appear multiple possibilities were possible until the big reveal. I didn't see it this way. Start to finish it was clear where it was going for V. I won't say my view of the matter is how it is. It's all good if others saw it differently.

I don't think we are having the same discussion, but that's okay.

None of the above is to meant to say the Devil was a "bad" ending either. At least in terms of how it fit the narrative. I thought it was one of the better fits out of the available endings. Although, to me the story was like a book, TV show or movie where the main characters make poor decisions, end up in compromised situations and attempt to dig themselves out of it. Over and over again. With much of the success in the digging out stage a result of luck more than choice.

I don't think I have ever made any post where I have put ending to bad to worse scale. I think they all deliver in terms of writing and are about different things. In context of game what surprised me in Devil was that CPDR had guts to go for it.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I don't think we are having the same discussion, but that's okay.

Let's try it this way.

I interpreted your post as saying there are several potential ways to view the Devil. To an extent I'd agree with this claim. The ending could mean V was completely screwed over by Arasaka. It could also mean the deal made with Arasaka was honored. At least as best as it could have been at the time. There is a lot of grey area for each possibility.

The above interpretation is where unreliable narrators enter the picture. The player is assuming the role of V. V is being fed information by Arasaka. Arasaka is the "narrator". V doesn't know if this information is true. This makes it "unreliable".

Where I thought the Devil fell apart is the ending pathway, start to finish, points toward V getting screwed. It's not identical to a clear-cut sequence of events (case and point, the Suicide ending). But it may as well be.

I don't think I have ever made any post where I have put ending to bad to worse scale. I think they all deliver in terms of writing and are about different things. In context of game what surprised me in Devil was that CPDR had guts to go for it.

You didn't. I brought it up. When you mentioned unreliable narrators it was a secondary line of thought relevant to that concept. There is a distinction between the writing choosing to deploy a concept and the application of that concept. I mentioned the Devil to suggest the concept was good but the execution failed to sell it.

The unreliable narration works in most of the other endings. It situationally works well in various other areas throughout the game. I didn't think it worked well with the Devil ending.

Saying the Devil wasn't bad was meant to walk things back a bit. It was to suggest the unreliable narration failed in it's execution but the ending did a lot of other stuff well.

 

[CS554]

I interpreted your post as saying there are several potential ways to view the Devil. To an extent I'd agree with this claim. The ending could mean V was completely screwed over by Arasaka. It could also mean the deal made with Arasaka was honored. At least as best as it could have been at the time. There is a lot of grey area for each possibility.

I see. No, I didn't meant to imply that. It's about degree of betrayal. Arasaka use some resources to help V, but when that fails, they won't be using more resources even those resources are available for them (ability to grow new body via cloning technology mentioned by Hellman).

What could be argued is how much Mikoshi contract weights in the situation for Arasaka. If they manipulated the situation so that V would take contract or if Arasaka or if contract option is just a byproduct that is convenient opportunity for Arasaka.

 

[motionblur]

I wouldn't imagine Arasaka to take their contracts too seriously at this point any more. They've proven to be very ruthless. So even if V had the time and position to negotiate different terms with them. Highly unlikely they'd stick to them if they didn't feel like it. For as much of an ass Johnny was - he was absolutely right in hating Arasaka for a lot of reasons. He just was also very misguided and mentally extremely instable.

 

[nirile1410]

The main problem is, this game is not an RPG.
Your choice, your path, your "friends", nothing care in the end.

So, I think the story should be re-written totally, instead of changing only the ends.

 

[Hammerstein]

Cyberpunk 2077 - the story of a young idiot and their naive buddy, who ignored every red flag on their way to make it big. And the surviving half of the duo spends the rest of the game drawing wrong conclusions, making bad decisions and killing lots of people, while the digital remains of a dead terrorist are egging them on to continue the wild-goose chase for a cure that does not exist.

 

[keikitokus]

I'm only upset that I couldn't leave with Panam in The Sun ending! She even ASK me about it! This was my whole point as a nomad - I despite corpo, I despite terrorist, I despite this 'big world'. I had this sneaky idea that I don't really care much about Rogue & other terrorists - I have USED them to separate me from Johnny. It was perfect - it didn't endanger my nomad friends (even Johnny suggested it - "don't involve close friends into this" - of course i didn't!)

.... but this isn't meant by developers. To leave with almost all nomads intact. There is no such choice.

You need to endanger them in The Star ending - I EXPECTED Panam to be killed in this one, as a punishment of being selfish prick (as a nomad i would never ask my family to raid Arasaka).

In my head cannon I leave with Panam after Arasaka raid with Johnny, but It seems to be too good ending for this game. It really pisses me off - Panam ASKS to leave with her, and there is NO option to do it.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I'm only upset that I couldn't leave with Panam in The Sun ending! She even ASK me about it! This was my whole point as a nomad - I despite corpo, I despite terrorist, I despite this 'big world'. I had this sneaky idea that I don't really care much about Rogue & other terrorists - I have USED them to separate me from Johnny. It was perfect - it didn't endanger my nomad friends (even Johnny suggested it - "don't involve close friends into this" - of course i didn't!)

.... but this isn't meant by developers. To leave with almost all nomads intact. There is no such choice.

You need to endanger them in The Star ending - I EXPECTED Panam to be killed in this one, as a punishment of being selfish prick (as a nomad i would never ask my family to raid Arasaka).

In my head cannon I leave with Panam after Arasaka raid with Johnny, but It seems to be too good ending for this game. It really pisses me off - Panam ASKS to leave with her, and there is NO option to do it.

The raid on Arasaka also help the Aldecaldos (not just about V), it's for that Saul is also and truly for.
- Panam do it mainly for V.
- Saul do it mainly for the stuff they'll find and use later after leaving.
(And don't listen Johnny too much, he often say bullshits or what suits him)

 

[keikitokus]

The raid on Arasaka also help the Aldecaldos (not just about V), it's for that Saul is also and truly for.
- Panam do it mainly for V.

I don't want to endanger her - there ARE other options

- Saul do it mainly for the stuff they'll find and use later after leaving.
(And don't listen Johnny too much, he often say bullshits or what suits him)

No problem I could focus on militech raid only afterwards with them if it is what they want - Saul would probably live, more nomads on raid = easier - no need to drag them into Arasaka. Still win (and Johnny is right here - as many times in adventure)

This is just laziness or "you must not see too many ending content at once"

Love interest:
- Run with me!
Your dialog options
- No can do, stay with me

This is what breaks immersion for me - she could say "You will get yourself killed, I don't want to know you" - but no, there is proposal for leaving without possibility of answer.

(but this is whining only - game is great. I have played as nomad for many hours in paper 2020 version. Nomad quests here are dream come true for me!

 

[LeKill3rFou]

No problem I could focus on militech raid only afterwards with them if it is what they want

In fact, if I remember, Militech are not the main goal for Saul. Militech simply protects the entrance to the tunnel. It is inside the tower that Saul wants to "steal" some gear. So Saul want to go inside the tower as much as V
(According to Mitch, Saul see that as an occasion to keep an hand on the leading of the family, unlike Panam who simply want help V).

But yeah, the Sun ending is a path of glory (and not "leaving with Panam" quietly)

 

[SteelDragon2050]

Might want to look up the definition of terrorist, as almost none of who you listed as one qualify. Knowing the Aldecaldos, they just looked at any Militech gear they picked up as icing on the cake. My question is, what's Blue Eyes' game? He's involved in that whole thing with the peralezes, then wants us to raid a space station? Something doesn't sit right about him.

 

[iltisbaer]

finished my very first run in CP a few days ago. after two wonderful weeks of playtime during the holiday break. No game has ever touched me so emotionally. After going through several story ends, I still feel empty and just want it to go on somehow. At the "easy way out" and the video message from Judy in the credits, I actually cried like a baby. But the nomad end with Judy and / or Panam is fantastic and leaves a silver lining of hope.
The Arasaka Ending ist a little bit strange...even though you choose to return to Earth, don't you even get a short return mission? And my girlfriend (Judy) just sent me a message that she decided to leave town, even though she said on the phone that I should come back to her quickly.
have I missed something here?
I would actually like to experience a lot more, but after two characters (both gender) and various endings, I think I'll be playing something different in the near future. Let's see in a few months there will definitely be a third one in CP. Corpo V is still waiting...