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[SPOILER ALERT] Funny story inconsistencies

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Kaspar.Hauser

Forum regular
#21
Dec 30, 2020
In secondary missions there is a lot of fake choices too.

Example: If you dislike Judy, and think that Maiko should be a better option, or if you want to betray both and take Clouds to yourself, you can't. Either ally with Judy or don't play her missions. Same goes for others. There's no alternative set of specific missions that relies on choice.

With Panam, you can betray her, gaining a great car for it, but then.. what? Is there a pack of missions backening this choice? No, there isn't. So, it's not really a choice at all. Can you abandon Aldecaldos to work for Raffen Shiv, or another family? No. You either work with them, or not.

Most missions are just "either choose to do it, or don't". There isn't a different mission pack depending on what you choose.

Other example: the criminal that seeks redemption. There is no alternative path. You can't choose to shoot the corpo and save the guy, it's either you see him die, or he'll end up dead anyway.

It's always this "Alternative Questine? Nope, nothing for you here, pal".
 
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Kikinho

Kikinho

Senior user
#22
Dec 30, 2020
Kaspar.Hauser said:
In secondary missions there is a lot of fake choices too.

Example: If you dislike Judy, and think that Maiko should be a better option, or if you want to betray both and take Clouds to yourself, you can't. Either ally with Judy or don't play her missions. Same goes for others. There's no alternative set of specific missions that relies on choice.

With Panam, you can betray her, gaining a great car for it, but then.. what? Is there a pack of missions backening this choice? No, there isn't. So, it's not really a choice at all. Can you abandon Aldecaldos to work for Raffen Shiv, or another family? No. You either work with them, or not.

Most missions are just "either choose to do it, or don't". There isn't a different mission pack depending on what you choose.

Other example: the criminal that seeks redemption. There is no alternative path. You can't choose to shoot the corpo and save the guy, it's either you see him die, or he'll end up dead anyway.

It's always this "Alternative Questine? Nope, nothing for you here, pal".
Click to expand...
Yeah that also gives to the sense that there is no real choice. As you said, you have the choice to finish the questline till the end, or abandon it prematurely.
Not many real alternative paths in the game. I would have been even fine with a story structure like in the witcher 2 tbh.
 
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G

Gorance

Forum regular
#23
Dec 30, 2020
Also act 1 V and Jackie do jobs for fixers that means Padre where we see V bringing Padre a suitcase in the 6 month skip montage and V sleeps in Jackies house YET IN ACT 2 Padre doesnt know you cuz when u got to haywood he says hi im Padre haywood fixer and in the funeral we talk tobhim like ita the first time..we ask how long he knows jackie and jackie had a garage where he spent ALL OF HIS TIME and we had no idea....hell not even the bike and we were living with the guy for the last 6 months...everything is cut and tappes together and doesnt make sense....this game was faaaaaar from release.
 
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VoodooMacVee

VoodooMacVee

Fresh user
#24
Dec 30, 2020
And that's what I liked about the Witcher games so much. You were always confronted with some kind of darkly grey moral dilemma and really saw the consequences later on.

- Free the creepy tree spirit to save a handful of innocent orphans and in return have a whole village wiped out and a related person driven to suicide
or
- Kill the creepy tree spirit, then the orphans get eaten by witches and another related person is driven into madness.

Sure, in both cases you get the info you want but someone always pays the price. That is the kind of quest design I would have expected for Cyberpunk, too.
 
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Kikinho

Kikinho

Senior user
#25
Dec 30, 2020
VoodooMacVee said:
And that's what I liked about the Witcher games so much. You were always confronted with some kind of darkly grey moral dilemma and really saw the consequences later on.

- Free the creepy tree spirit to save a handful of innocent orphans and in return have a whole village wiped out and a related person driven to suicide
or
- Kill the creepy tree spirit, then the orphans get eaten by witches and another related person is driven into madness.

Sure, in both cases you get the info you want but someone always pays the price. That is the kind of quest design I would have expected for Cyberpunk, too.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and after hearing that they sacrificed the lenght of the main story, you would think it means there are going to be more branching quest options or alternative paths.
 
Mk3rd

Mk3rd

Forum regular
#26
Dec 30, 2020
I think there's also one where you meet Sebastian "Padre" Ibarra during the 6 month montage, then he introduces himself again to you later as the fixer of Wellsprings as if it's your 1st time meeting him.
 
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v2micca

v2micca

Fresh user
#27
Dec 30, 2020
CitizenMigraine said:
-When Johnny Silverhand is escaping Arasaka Tower after planting the nuke, Adam Smasher knocks him off the landing onto the floor below then blasts him with an arm cannon. Then, abruptly, we flash to Johnny on the roof about to get away in the helicopter. How did he escape Smasher?
Click to expand...
This scene is actually supposed to be kind of an easter egg reference to the original supplemental book Stormfront. The entire story regarding the Assault on Arasaka tower was originally told in that book. However, in that version Morgan Blackhand is the leader of the operation and Johnny is more of a supporting character in the story. The apex of the story center's around Adam Smasher finally getting a showdown with longtime rival Morgan Blackhand. In the source book, the sequence with Smasher blasting Johnny resulted in Johnny's death. Smasher then used Johnny's corpse to taunt Blackhand into a confrontation on the roof of Arasaka tower as the entire building collapsed underneath them. So, the cut sequence in the game would likely be were Morgan Blackhand shows up to confront Smasher, allowing Johnny to excape death at Smasher's hands in this version of events.

CitizenMigraine said:
-During Panam's mission to capture Hellman, her and V create an EMP blast by overloading a power station. After that fails, she pulls out a bazooka that does the trick of knocking out the transport. Why didn't she just use this from the start? She would've been able to communicate with the other Aldecaldo's to tell them to stay away, too.
Click to expand...
I think someone else covered this already, but the AV had extensive counter measures against inbound projectiles. While the EMP wasn't able to fully bring the AV down, it did disable the counter measures allowing Panam to finish it off with the bazooka.

CitizenMigraine said:
-Anyone else notice Maiko's side gig of Joytoy of Jig-Jig Street?
Click to expand...
I swear on my first play through I even remember her making a snide comment to me about being lackluster customer when I first confront her with Judy.
 
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Techno_Core

Techno_Core

Forum regular
#28
Dec 30, 2020
If I recall the EMP impacted the AV but it wasn't going down fast enough or where they wanted because it had some kind of thing that was helping it to not go down so the bazooka was just to make it go down where they wanted.

Yeah just replayed that and Johnny on the ground, arm shot off by Adam... then escaping to the helo. I wasn't sure what was going on.

Hanako says everyone knew Yorinobu killed Saburo. It wasn't a real mystery, just corp politics.
 
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Rudo_

Rudo_

Forum regular
#29
Dec 30, 2020
Willowhugger said:
I don't really get what people want or will be satisfied with.
Click to expand...
Probably with a RPG game, as expected
 
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Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#30
Dec 30, 2020
Rudo_ said:
Probably with a RPG game, as expected
Click to expand...
I know a lot of gamers who don't want to go along with the plot the ST made and after 30 years of tabletop gaming, what I learned to call these people is, "Guys who should find another game."
 
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BroNice

BroNice

Fresh user
#31
Dec 30, 2020
Kikinho said:
God this bothers me still so much. The whole relationship with Kerry is so superficial.
Some random ass punk breaks into your mansion, grabs one of your guitars and starts playing a tune anyone could learn. And your's first reaction is "Jhonny?". Come on man... that is one of the laziest way of going about it...
Click to expand...
In a world where death of old age can be prevented by synthetic organs and you can sculpt a completely new body with cybernetics, it would not be unreasonable to assume that your old choomba Johnny somehow fled Arasaka tower before the explosion and went undercover for like 50 years. Kerry even says himself that he waited 50 years for him to return, so he probably didn’t completely accepted johnnys death or thought him going undercover and living with some nomad clan was possible.
 
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Rudo_

Rudo_

Forum regular
#32
Dec 30, 2020
Willowhugger said:
I know a lot of gamers who don't want to go along with the plot the ST made and after 30 years of tabletop gaming, what I learned to call these people is, "Guys who should find another game."
Click to expand...
I don't think the issue here is the plot, but the lack of rpg mechanics. I actually quite like the plot... For a movie or a linear game. I just don't see the rpg I was promised and I pre-ordered (for ps4 base :cry:)
 
Witzzard

Witzzard

Forum regular
#33
Dec 30, 2020
Rudo_ said:
I don't think the issue here is the plot, but the lack of rpg mechanics. I actually quite like the plot... For a movie or a linear game. I just don't see the rpg I was promised and I pre-ordered (for ps4 base :cry:)
Click to expand...
Maybe you might want to rethink how you word your core complaint.
Nethack, Rouge-likes, Final Fantasy, Wizardry, Might&Magic - all RPGs with less story impact, all counted as RPGs. Because reactivity isn't the singular thing that makes a RPG a RPG, not even in tabletop - as you'd have CYOA books for that. And i'm saying that as someone who himself has always complained about people going "Final Fantasy ? is the bestest RPG ever".
It's not about "lack of rpg mechanics" - it's lack of inter-connected story knots, alternative story-lines and overall reactivity of everyone towards player actions and the overall perception of the linearity of everything. And that's a complaint one can agree with, or not and touches what people really mean.

But going mostly "lack of rpg mechanics" isn't helping anyone understanding what anyone actually wants from a game. And therefore not helping anyone in creating something you'd percieve as better.
 
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lyin321

lyin321

Fresh user
#34
Dec 30, 2020
Kaspar.Hauser said:
Example: If you dislike Judy, and think that Maiko should be a better option, or if you want to betray both and take Clouds to yourself, you can't. Either ally with Judy or don't play her missions. Same goes for others. There's no alternative set of specific missions that relies on choice.
Click to expand...
What do you mean? In that mission, I ended with Maiko replacing one of the leaders and giving you 12k....and making Judy really angry and going 'Yo, I am leaving NC and deleting your number':)

My current problem is the lack of options regarding Dex's mission. I understand that we can't go fully 'no' and have completely different mission where the chip ends in our head but....
....oh and please give us the option to beat Jacky on his stupid head yelling 'stop getting blinded by fame!':D
 
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K

Kaspar.Hauser

Forum regular
#35
Dec 30, 2020
[Q
lyin321 said:
What do you mean? In that mission, I ended with Maiko replacing one of the leaders and giving you 12k....and making Judy really angry and going 'Yo, I am leaving NC and deleting your number':)
Click to expand...
Did you made any missions to Maiko?
 
lyin321

lyin321

Fresh user
#36
Dec 30, 2020
Kaspar.Hauser said:
[Q


Did you made any missions to Maiko?
Click to expand...
No, but I didn't continue that save game. If you mean lack of content for these choices I totally agree. It is especially disappointing how the romances were treated but....enhanced edition hopefully:)
 
D

ddz1rt

Forum regular
#37
Dec 30, 2020
VoodooMacVee said:
I think that there was some kind of boss battle planned at this point , where you would fight Smasher and perhaps even get some insight into his relationship to Silverhand. The fight would probably end with Silverhand disabling Smasher in some way and then make his way back to the stairs. But because something wasn't ready, the fight got cut out and now we have this awkward jump ahead.
Click to expand...
Thing is Johnny on PnP can not and would not oppose Smasher. Because one is a fullblown cyborg with latest gen military body, that has smart heavy shot gun, LMG, rockets. Highly resistant to any damage and hacking. The THING can fall of Arasaka tower and run up to a car speed like it is nothing. While we have a rocker boy with cyber arm, no next gen cyberoptics(he has what infra red, low lite(basically night vision), aim assist and boosted reflexes). In lore Johnny got flatlined first against Smasher. Literally split in two and amounted to useless meat. The only real contender to Smasher was Morgan Blackhand and it is still open question if he even survived against Smasher.

What we get in game looks strange to say at least. It is cool they made Johnny a mix of Wick, Norris and Eastwood as a fighter and some strange mix of some rock and not only rock artists. Making him special and somewhat cool, but in a way it is a stupid Hollywood film again, but in Cyberpunk setting. Don't get me wrong, it is okayish, but it is not what I was hoping for, because while being ok for masses it is not what it should be as original lore and how thing should work in that lore.

V can stand up to Smasher, because he is actually a solo with military grade cyberware, but it is still some unrealistic crap. Like going against a professional with around 80-90 years of military ops and superior arms is suicide(and backed by building full of other armed and dangerous military grade guys), but hey at least it is an option.
 
Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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Witzzard

Witzzard

Forum regular
#38
Dec 30, 2020
ddz1rt said:
Thing is Johnny on PnP can not and would not oppose Smasher. Because one is a fullblown cyborg with latest gen military body, that has smart heavy shot gun, LMG, rockets. Highly resistant to any damage and hacking. The THING can fall of Arasaka tower and run up to a car speed like it is nothing. While we have a rocker boy with cyber arm, no next gen cyberoptics(he has what infra red, low lite(basically night vision), aim assist and boosted reflexes). In lore Johnny got flatlined first against Smasher. Literally split in to and amounted to useless meat. The only real contender to Smasher was Morgan Blackhand and it is still open question if he even survived against Smasher.

What we get in game looks strange to say at least. It is cool they made Johnny a mix of Wick, Norris and Eastwood as a fighter and some strange mix of some rock and not only rock artists. Making him special and somewhat cool, but in a way it is a stupid Hollywood film again, but in Cyberpunk setting. Don't get me wrong, it is okayish, but it is not what I was hoping for, because while being ok for masses it is not what it should be as original lore and how thing should work in that lore.

V can stand up to Smasher, because he is actually a solo with military grade cyberware, but it is still some unrealistic crap. Like going against a professional with around 80-90 years of military ops and superior arms is suicide(and backed by building full of other armed and dangerous military grade guys), but hey at least it is an option.
Click to expand...
Like going up against a dragon in Shadowrun or Skyrim, two gods in Oblivion, centuries older vampires in Bloodlines. Yeah... typical CRPG for V to be able to smash the Smasher.

Gotta agree though, Silverhand is a bit to front and centre imo.
 
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K

Kaspar.Hauser

Forum regular
#39
Dec 30, 2020
Witzzard said:
But going mostly "lack of rpg mechanics" isn't helping anyone understanding what anyone actually wants from a game. And therefore not helping anyone in creating something you'd percieve as better.
Click to expand...
I'll give you an example of a RPG mechanic what could exist in the game, but wasn't.

Choice to give the player a chance to make his own "V". That's a good RPG mechanic example.

You wake up some day and suddenly think: "You know what, it's scumbag V time!"

Then you go out of V's apartment, shoot the neighborhood (Stop making noises, dammit), slap Wilson's (weapon shop vendor) face: "You always keep the shooting range closed, you dumbass, how dare you?"

Then you go out, make a police chase, end up in the desert. Stay there for 3 days, hidden, then suddenly someone calls you.

"Hey V, it's Maiko, I heard you lose it, because, you know, it was scumbag V day, bu this had a price. As you helped me in the past, pay me 20.000 eddies, so I can use some Arasaka contact to make some negotiation with NCPD. If you don't have the money, I have some work for you. Give it a thought."

If you don't accept, then after some time you receive another call.

"Hello, mr. Scumbag V, even when we can't see it, God is always looking for us, just as I'm always looking for my mercs. I heard you got problems with the law, I made some contacts with the Valentinos and they said they have a place to sell in Heywood. You can pay in cash, or get rid of the police in one of the Valentino's area, do that and your place in heaven will be secured."

If you wait a little longer...

"Hello V, it's Panam, listen, I know you messed up this time. People in the city hate your guts, because of what you have done, but you're family, even being a mr. Scumbag V, there's a tent for you here, and we could use your contacts to provide jobs to the family. Think about it."

If you don't accept it, then you could call NCPD, with a non trackable call. In the call it's given you the option to surrender yourself and get arrested, to get alternative punishment instead of prison.

"You are a scumbag, mr. Scumbag V. But as you made somenpolice work before, the judge gave you the option to pay a 15 thousand fee, or you can clean up three gang turfs, arrasting these criminals, dead or alive, it's your choice, mr. Scumbag V"

If you don't choose it, then Kerry calls you:
"Hello, mr. Scumbag pretty ass V, I knew that you blowed up, so if you want to, you can stay at my house. But keep it in order, okay? And help me to get my guitar back, please, some guy paid a fixer in Heywood to rob it from my nephew, do you believe that? The scumbag took Silverhand's shoes too! (Scumbag V: "No, never heard of it"). Anyway, call me if you're interested".

Alternatively, you could call Delamaine.

"Hello, Delamaine, it's me, Scumbag V, listen, I need a car in the desert, near the Batman's cave"

Delamaine: "Of couse mr. V, you're an excelsior client, but considering that you made my cars free, because you're a scumbag, it'll cost you 20 thousand eddies."

Or you could make a "Charity loving V".

Donating money to churches, helping children, capturing bandits.

Then, corpos call you, politics will praise you. You receive invitations to TV shows.

Corpos: "Hello, mr. Charity V, I heard of your good actions and our brand could use that to, you know, ahem, do what is right for u.. the city. If you are willing to, go to studio X, and we'll make an ad using your image to our new semi vegan bio organic carnivore food tooth paste that gives 200% of daily vitamines everytime you brush your teeth. You'll be well paid, or we'll give some calls, then you receive some great discounts on some shops"

NCPD: "Very well done citizen. You’re invited to visit our instalations, to see how we train or soldiers, and talk to our chief."

Chief of NCPD: "Hello mr. Charity V, considering the valorous work you have been putting in the city, we have a proposition to you: we have this gang problem in north of Night City, so if you choose to accept our offer, we'll give you an uniform, and you will arrest wanted people, so in that way you'll get paid, and depending on how much you work, we'll be sending some equipaments to your apartment, and the officers will be very pleased with your presence."

Then if you do some police missions, officers starts to greet you when you call them, vendors will give you a discount, people will call for your help and so on.

Not only the RPG mechanic of choice is lacking, but making those choices meaningful, make the world react to them.

That's why even cursed with "Bethesda charm", Fallout NV (rushed by Bethesda) is so praised.
 
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lyin321

lyin321

Fresh user
#40
Dec 30, 2020
Well it is not so strange that V ends up being a killing machine surpassing the most dangerous thing Arasaka can throw at you.
Btw the game also (as far as I am concerned) acknowledges that Silverhand has a big mouth, but is not much in combat, as he is always getting beaten:)
....though I am kinda disappointed that we too got our ass handed to us by joytoy that knows kung-fu....
 
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