[Spoiler] I think I got the best ending. Change my mind.

[zorba1138]

I think Johnny also wants you to think over your choices, because of what he went through.
He even more or less implied how he felt/feels after he went through with the attack on the Arasaka. Grieving over the losses of his friends and beloved.
But, here is a far reached assumption:
You may think his attempts were futile and nothing changed, but he still is kind of like a symbol AND Yorinobu might have been very inspired by him. "When a Bomb turning the Arasaka Tower is not enough, oneself has to become the bomb" (or how it went). He wanted to change the Corp and/or bring Arasaka to its knees.

Also to the ones "defending" the Arasaka Ending as a good one, because "no one really died in the events". You then have to think about the consequences of a newly "born" Saburo Arasaka, who is the head figure (also an Engram, with possible personality change) and incorporates Arasaka, and is one of the reasons of oppressed people, poverty and expanding the gap in society. (while also doing some pointed good things as told by Takemura)

That was probably more in line with the original intent, keep in mind the Nomad ending was likely not planned at all. I think the entirety of the Panam questline was intended to be part of the Nomad lifepath questline that went beyond the prologue.

There are 4 endings to the game but only 3 of them have an official name within the game DB and the files.

• Araska is called Heir
• Rogue is called Legend
• And the solo (johnny's secret) ending is called Reborn

The nomad ending is just Q202 with no special name, if you also look at where the area of the tunnel is in relations to the Araska tower it makes little sense to be that in the first place, I have a feeling that it was some part of a generalized quest path to break out of the NC as there were other indications that the nomads want to move to another state.

 

[Kikinho]

I don't think some really don't even know how freaking big and influential Arasaka, Militech, Petrochem, Biatechnica etc (THE big corps) REALLY are. They are stronger than countries. Not even Amazon, Google etc would hold a candle to them, even though they're right on track.

They kind of ARE even more important than the countries who are more portrayed as being a sidenote. There were four fucking Wars happening. Not because of Terrorists or countries, BUT between Corporations!!
You can see it in the Corp-Lifepath beginning how easily he kind of kille dht EU commitee.
Mitch as well as other Nomads tell about being soldiers and veterans from the last Corp-Wars on the Side of Militech, being pumped full of Chemicals to erase their fear of death and make them stronger, even though it was banished from using.

We are fully aware of it. Unless you aren't talking about people who prefer the Arasaka ending.
The corpos are the ultimate ruling power. Taking one one by yourself is pure idiocy. And if by some miracle you do manage to weaken one, you have 3-4 other ones that just get stronger by your efforts.

 

[Subenu]

To me the immortal leader is more of a morality dilemma than about his effect on society. Many different things have failed society, it isn't solely Arasaka's doing. If anything with Saboru back, you prevented another Corpo war.
The only thing that bothers me about him becoming immortal is that noone should have that kind of privilige. But again, the game does a very poor job at exploring the topic of transhumanism.

I kind of agree with you there, that the game should've expanded more on exploring narratives?, outcomes, and stuff happening or that might happen.

On another note, it's really interesting how much is happening on earth when you listen to the news. I mean, if you follow the news (and 'trust' them).
I mean China went full on with automation and AI motorisation, banning normal vehicles and even banned bycicles!
EU is so much ins truggle with itself and pro "open market" and not interfering with it, central countries (like germany and france) are against helping countries in need of help with humanitarian catastrophes, "because it could influence the integrity of the open market" (Which made me gigle, because its kind of a very well done portrait of nowadays politics xD)
And the meditarrean/desert regions reaching a point of around 60°Celsius burning hot leaving behind uninhabitable areas.

Post automatically merged: Dec 31, 2020

That was probably more in line with the original intent, keep in mind the Nomad ending was likely not planned at all. I think the entirety of the Panam questline was intended to be part of the Nomad lifepath questline that went beyond the prologue.

There are 4 endings to the game but only 3 of them have an official name within the game DB and the files.

• Araska is called Heir
• Rogue is called Legend
• And the solo (johnny's secret) ending is called Reborn

The nomad ending is just Q202 with no special name, if you also look at where the area of the tunnel is in relations to the Araska tower it makes little sense to be that in the first place, I have a feeling that it was some part of a generalized quest path to break out of the NC as there were other indications that the nomads want to move to another state.

While I can get behind the argument this might be something from a Nomad Questline or something, I still think it is a planed ending. Maybe the Nomads will play a bigger role later on.

btw. A Name of the Nomad ending, there is one: it's called "The Star"

 

[Kikinho]

I kind of agree with you there, that the game should've expanded more on exploring narratives?, outcomes, and stuff happening or that might happen.

On another note, it's really interesting how much is happening on earth when you listen to the news. I mean, if you follow the news (and 'trust' them).
I mean China went full on with automation and AI motorisation, banning normal vehicles and even banned bycicles!
EU is so much ins truggle with itself and pro "open market" and not interfering with it, central countries (like germany and france) are against helping countries in need of help with humanitarian catastrophes, "because it could influence the integrity of the open market" (Which made me gigle, because its kind of a very well done portrait of nowadays politics xD)
And the meditarrean/desert regions reaching a point of around 60°Celsius burning hot leaving behind uninhabitable areas.

Yeah I did pay attention the radio news. Antarctica's very first doll house.

But yeah, personally that is why I don't buy the game's narrative that by siding Arasaka, you are choosing the bad ending. Arasaka is the most logical choice. Especially after Takemura does a much better job at advocating than Jhonny does.


"You can't save the world, but you can save yourself." And in my head, in a distopian world like this, end justifies the means. Especially when you roleplay as a criminal to begin with.

 

[zorba1138]

A Name of the Nomad ending, there is one: it's called "The Star"

"The Star" isn't the internal name of Q202, nor does it appear in the DB at all...

 

[Subenu]

Yeah I did pay attention the radio news. Antarctica's very first doll house.

But yeah, personally that is why I don't buy the game's narrative that by siding Arasaka, you are choosing the bad ending. Arasaka is the most logical choice. Especially after Takemura does a much better job at advocating than Jhonny does.

"You can't save the world, but you can save yourself." And in my head, in a distopian world like this, end justifies the means. Especially when you roleplay as a criminal to begin with.

I think it's fine if you think that and it's your opinion. And I won't deny that you might have a point. But it's not for me
And personally I don't really see the Arasaka Ending as "the bad" one. It just doesn't fit me or my style.
Where I agree again is the notion that Takemura brings to the table, which kind of are the "positives" of Arasaka. But then again he is pretty biased and a "Chosen One" by their system, which is more Caste like and seeding/weeding out while nurturing promising chosen persons.

 

[Kikinho]

I think it's fine if you think that and it's your opinion. And I won't deny that you might have a point. But it's not for me
And personally I don't really see the Arasaka Ending as "the bad" one. It just doesn't fit me or my style.
Where I agree again is the notion that Takemura brings to the table, which kind of are the "positives" of Arasaka. But then again he is pretty biased and a "Chosen One" by their system, which is more Caste like and seeding/weeding out while nurturing promising chosen persons.

Of course. But it's really not much different than the "rules of the street" in Night City. In my eyes "street life" and "corpo life" are just two sides of the same coin. Unfortunately the story forces into the street kid's perspective.

 

[Raptorousrex]

Hey, thanks for the input. We have a huge difference in opinion about betraying Jackie. What did Jackie really want? It was Johnny who wanted to destroyed Arasaka. If a claim is made about betraying Jackie, one would need to analyze what it really would have mean to do right by Jackie. I think it falls to opinions here.

You'll have to do more to convince me that that is ending is worse than the suicide option, though. That's a big claim and I don't agree with it at all.

Post automatically merged: Dec 31, 2020

I can tell we think very alike. The Star Trek thing also bothers me but I get around it but assuming the particles' relative position are saved and THOSE SAME PARTICLES are transmitted ftl to the receiving transporter instantaneously. It helps, but I'm still not happy.

I agree about the Soulkiller thing being glanced over. It bothers me more that it will be difficult to get this point across to the general audience.

Post automatically merged: Dec 31, 2020

Yeah, but you get 6 months instead of 0.

Actually, certain messages indicate that you dont actually die in 6 months!

 

[Ken.Sai]

I chose the Arasaka ending as the best option due to the fact:

1) I get no one else involved, so I know for certain I won't get anyone (living person) killed.

2) Hanako was worth the gamble, as her character seemed honorable enough and worth the shot for her holding the end of the deal.

3) Needed to get rid of the chip, which means Johnny had to be the sacrifice.

4) I didn't want anything to do with Soulkiller.

That all happened. Look I was even ok with the whole terminal issue with the damage done to my body and had x amount of time to live.

What got me was, how Judy breaks up with Female V in the end credits, when all she wanted was for V to get back to earth asap when V called her before the credits... is this a bug?

If there was an option to say if V decides to stay in NC or leave. If decide to stay in NC, then yea, understandable for the break up. One of the other endings Judy hangs around NC waiting for V's call... So why the break up when V is doing what Judy said, come back to earth. Gutted lol...

So for that ending V actually survived because did not get zapped by Soulkiller. If you don't look at the terminal issue part.

 

[Buckadoz]

What got me was, how Judy breaks up with Female V in the end credits, when all she wanted was for V to get back to earth asap when V called her before the credits... is this a bug?

If there was an option to say if V decides to stay in NC or leave. If decide to stay in NC, then yea, understandable for the break up. One of the other endings Judy hangs around NC waiting for V's call... So why the break up when V is doing what Judy said, come back to earth. Gutted lol...

Unfortunately, we are clearly not intended to think of this as a viable ending choice. They WANT the Arasaka ending to come off as a bad ending, for you to feel like you've been punished for siding with the Corp. The Arasaka ending kicks the shit out of V just to punish the player for not preferring Johnny or the Aldecaldos.

 

[Subenu]

I chose the Arasaka ending as the best option due to the fact:

1) I get no one else involved, so I know for certain I won't get anyone (living person) killed.
2) Hanako was worth the gamble, as her character seemed honorable enough and worth the shot for her holding the end of the deal.
3) Needed to get rid of the chip, which means Johnny had to be the sacrifice.
4) I didn't want anything to do with Soulkiller.
That all happened. Look I was even ok with the whole terminal issue with the damage done to my body and had x amount of time to live.

What got me was, how Judy breaks up with Female V in the end credits, when all she wanted was for V to get back to earth asap when V called her before the credits... is this a bug?

If there was an option to say if V decides to stay in NC or leave. If decide to stay in NC, then yea, understandable for the break up. One of the other endings Judy hangs around NC waiting for V's call... So why the break up when V is doing what Judy said, come back to earth. Gutted lol...

So for that ending V actually survived because did not get zapped by Soulkiller. If you don't look at the terminal issue part.

1.) No one except Yorinobu gets killed for Saburo to take over. And, this is assuming Arasaka continues to be the corp as is, lots of humans/humanity suffering (or some who "enjoy" the benefits of others suffering)
2.) Hanako seems honorable but has only the interest of Arasaka and the revival of her father/Saburo in mind. One can try to come up with conclusions and styles of manipulation. Yes, she helps you getting tid of the chip, but then you are kind of held hostage in a space clinic as a guinea pig, because they might be able to get/excract data.
And who could really say the Soul-transfer into Mikoshi is really without problems or kind of similar to the Soulkiller itself?
You aren't really told anything, and even if it would be no surprise if they flat out just tell you lies just to get you to stay or offer yourself for/to the Arasaka Corp.

Arasaka and Alt Cunnungham sound even more kind of "similar" in that they try to manipulate V (and Johnny?) towards their benefits.

to 3 and 4.) that's fine for you (I mean, it's your choice/opinion)

but I think this may also be one of the things this game wants to deliver (I mean we are basically have endings we don't particularly agree on).
Boiling down to how each of us perceive the story, how we can accept it (or not) or fare with the choices (or "no choices") we have.

It's on a "simple matter", but it seems kind of philosophical if you think about it.
... Or I am drunk and dive/think too much into it *shrugs*

 

[Ken.Sai]

Unfortunately, we are clearly not intended to think of this as a viable ending choice. They WANT the Arasaka ending to come off as a bad ending, for you to feel like you've been punished for siding with the Corp. The Arasaka ending kicks the shit out of V just to punish the player for not preferring Johnny or the Aldecaldos.

Yeah don’t know, just doesn’t make sense. If Judy wanted to break up would have said so on the call in the space station before the credits. V tells Judy she got rid of the chip, and knows Arasaka did the operation, and Judy asks V to come back asap. There is no flow there to what she says in the credits.

Post automatically merged: Dec 31, 2020

1.) No one except Yorinobu gets killed

I can live with that

 

[Subenu]

Yeah don’t know, just doesn’t make sense. If Judy wanted to break up would have said so on the call in the space station before the credits. V tells Judy she got rid of the chip, and knows Arasaka did the operation, and Judy asks V to come back asap. There is no flow there to what she says in the credits.

I also played that scene out, but my guess was/is following:
The time V stayed being "treated" in the space station already covered the whole time that she had left. You can call all the people and Judy, who wants you to come back asap. In the end Hellman offers you two choices, getting in Mikoshi, ending as a bitcoin Miner or "freedom".
When you chose freedom you take your stuff and walk towards the shuttle, look at the earth, cough (and say "shit/oh noes" or something!?) and then fade out.

I actually think your/V's time has come and she died on her way to the shuttle, never reaching earth, but "free" because you choose so.

 

[Ken.Sai]

I also played that scene out, but my guess was/is following:
The time V stayed being "treated" in the space station already covered the whole time that she had left. You can call all the people and Judy, who wants you to come back asap. In the end Hellman offers you two choices, getting in Mikoshi, ending as a bitcoin Miner or "freedom".
When you chose freedom you take your stuff and walk towards the shuttle, look at the earth, cough (and say "shit/oh noes" or something!?) and then fade out.

I actually think your/V's time has come and she died on her way to the shuttle, never reaching earth, but "free" because you choose so.

Really? Interesting. I didn’t get that vibe at all. It felt open ended to me and V being pissed at the whole situation. Looking at the necklace thinking, fk this situation and rips it off. Usually that type of behaviour would follow by, i’ll sort this out myself.

And if there is an ending where Judy waits in NC for V’s call, I‘m sure she coulda wait a few days for V to recover after a complicated surgery, especially it was already mentioned to Judy.

Dunno mate, it just doesn’t seem right...

 

[Subenu]

Really? Interesting. I didn’t get that vibe at all. It felt open ended to me and V being pissed at the whole situation. Looking at the necklace thinking, fk this situation and rips it off. Usually that type of behaviour would follow by, i’ll sort this out myself.

And if there is an ending where Judy waits in NC for V’s call, I‘m sure she coulda wait a few days for V to recover after a complicated surgery, especially it was already mentioned to Judy.

Dunno mate, it just doesn’t seem right...

Nah it doesn't need to be either way, it could be something in the middle. It's all kind of speculation either way.
I think its fine for you to go with your "suggested" idea that you have "fuck it, I'll do it myself".

(Same with my ideal/hopeful nomad ending where I think V survives and will find a solution together with new family/friends )

 

[capt.k]

Johnny isn't fighting dictators, he is settling a personal grievance and being manipulated to do so, too much of Alt's content was cut for it to make sense to most players. Hint there is a reason why you'll hear Alt's voice if you decide to get rid of Del saying "Delamain was your guardian angel" At some point the story was more complex and somewhat more obvious, and AIs played a bigger role in it than what we got with Del just being delegated to a minor role to have the player move around the city to pickup street stories since all the fixer missions now require you to go to the POI before you even get them.

And if you bring it to the real world there are hardly ever examples of "dictators" being toppled by force without the revolutionaries becoming ones themselves, I don't see fighting dictators as some idealistic romantic cause.
Dictators appear when the institutions that allow and guarantee a non-violent transition of power collapse or don't exist in the first place.

The only successful transitions from dictatorship to democracy tend to happen over a long period of time without much violence, e.g. Spain and Greece, when things don't happen that way you get shitshows like the French revolution and the reign of terror that followed it.



Johnny isn't about ideals, but rather about his own ego, there is no black and white no good vs evil in Cyberpunk the corporations aren't "evil" in the sense of being true evil, Takemura expands on that when he asks V what about the billions the corporations employ and help feed, don't get me wrong the corporations aren't good or altruistic either no one is.

Johnny is more of a bargain bin undergrad socialist it somewhat represents well the 20 year old doorknobs that read Marx for the first time and think that if you just get rid of capitalism the world would somehow become a better place.

The world of Cyberpunk is a dystopia but it's not a dystopia solely because of corporations they are as much of a symptom as the cause.

As far as the more generalized "mistake" goes, V by assaulting the tower with either the nomads or rogue or by himself achieves nothing besides getting thousands of innocents killed, his friends killed, unleashing Alt to do god knows what, collapsing a corporation an event that would likely spark another corp war which would get even more people killed and then either dying or being stuck in cyberspace without any way of getting out and letting Johnny keep his body.

Pretty much agree with everything you just said but I'd like to add that there are cases where dictators drive a nation to stability and growth. See Singapore and (this is a controversial one) China. However, the proportion of beneficial dictatorships to unsuccessful ones would be close to the proportion of 'good' people and 'bad' people. Definitions of good and bad up for debate, of course.

Also, I think you're being a bit too harsh on Johnny here. I think it's better to say that Johnny's ideals are misguided rather than say he is about his own ego. After all, he is willing to die and give V back their body.

Post automatically merged: Jan 1, 2021

Also to the ones "defending" the Arasaka Ending as a good one, because "no one really died in the events". You then have to think about the consequences of a newly "born" Saburo Arasaka, who is the head figure (also an Engram, with possible personality change) and incorporates Arasaka, and is one of the reasons of oppressed people, poverty and expanding the gap in society. (while also doing some pointed good things as told by Takemura)

So at the end of the day:

1. Have V and the people they care about die and create a power vacuum for the other megacorps/alt + consequences.
2. V LIVES AND have NONE of the people they care about die and instate engram Saburo + consequences.

If you were V, which choice would you make?

 

[Ken.Sai]

Pretty much agree with everything you just said but I'd like to add that there are cases where dictators drive a nation to stability and growth. See Singapore and (this is a controversial one) China. However, the proportion of beneficial dictatorships to unsuccessful ones would be close to the proportion of 'good' people and 'bad' people. Definitions of good and bad up for debate, of course.

Also, I think you're being a bit too harsh on Johnny here. I think it's better to say that Johnny's ideals are misguided rather than say he is about his own ego. After all, he is willing to die and give V back their body.

Post automatically merged: Jan 1, 2021

So at the end of the day:

1. Have V and the people they care about die and create a power vacuum for the other megacorps/alt + consequences.
2. V LIVES AND have NONE of the people they care about die and instate engram Saburo + consequences.

If you were V, which choice would you make?

No 2. is the reason why I picked this ending path. Most important is no one close to V dies. My problem, I created this mess, gona sort this sh!t out myself. Not gona drag anyone into this sh!t storm that we all know won't end well. "that one thing that changed it all, that one sin that caused the fall"...

What's interesting is, even though the chip was removed, Johnny still spoke to V to Get up, Gota get out of here. So to me, Johnny is not gone. He has somehow merged with V?

But when you leave and that ending message from Judy, spoiled it lol. To me that break up should have happen when V called at the space station, not get told to come back and then get dumped at the credits lol. That would have been an easier pill to swallow being told during the call.

"we lost everything, we had to pay the price, yeah we lost everything" would have been more believable, well to me atleast.

 

[arcsirc]

When you choose to go see Hanako, Misty makes a comment about you betraying Jackie (Arasaka killed him). So i think that siding with the people who killed Jackie is seen as betrayal. Although I would agree with you that this is not really betrayal, we tried to steal from them after all. They just shot thieves.

the narrative assumes extremely the players motivation for choice is extremely narrow and shallow when it reacts to the roof top choice.

Post automatically merged: Jan 1, 2021

No 2. is the reason why I picked this ending path. Most important is no one close to V dies. My problem, I created this mess, gona sort this sh!t out myself. Not gona drag anyone into this sh!t storm that we all know won't end well. "that one thing that changed it all, that one sin that caused the fall"...

What's interesting is, even though the chip was removed, Johnny still spoke to V to Get up, Gota get out of here. So to me, Johnny is not gone. He has somehow merged with V?

But when you leave and that ending message from Judy, spoiled it lol. To me that break up should have happen when V called at the space station, not get told to come back and then get dumped at the credits lol. That would have been an easier pill to swallow being told during the call.

"we lost everything, we had to pay the price, yeah we lost everything" would have been more believable, well to me atleast.

he's entangled in V's psyche, removing the chip isn't going to stop that I don't think. In mikoshi alt actually goes to trouble to seperate the two of you.

 

[Ken.Sai]

he's entangled in V's psyche, removing the chip isn't going to stop that I don't think. In mikoshi alt actually goes to trouble to seperate the two of you.

Yep so to me, Johnny is still around, without the issue of the chip causing more issues. I feel that part is considered a win. To me the issue wasn't him, it was the chip that's killing V. When I heard his voice, I thought, cool, the fker is not totally gone. Even though I threw him under the bus lol. Guy would get over it haha.

Naturally the focus moving forward is to find a cure to the damages done, to me that's pretty open ended. Live to fight another day scenario.

Its not like people haven't made a come back from being told they got a terminal illness.

 

[Subenu]

So at the end of the day:

1. Have V and the people they care about die and create a power vacuum for the other megacorps/alt + consequences.
2. V LIVES AND have NONE of the people they care about die and instate engram Saburo + consequences.

If you were V, which choice would you make?

I don't even know why you have to make up new or other endings that didn't happen?
Number 1 didn't happen and Number 2 was as much "V dies" as Number 1 in your scenario.
I went for neither of those choices.... So I don't get your point, sorry.