[SPOILERS]: Alternative Endings, Ciri's Fate

[whitewoof]

[SPOILERS]: Alternative Endings, Ciri's Fate

I know most of you would have finished the game by now, or at least read up on the three main alternative endings of the game regarding Ciri, being Witcher/Empress/Dead. On my first playthrough, I went all out for the Empress ending; all so called positive reactions during conversations with Ciri, bring Ciri to meet Emhyr, ensuring Nilfgaard win the war, etc.

Admittedly, I never played W2 before or read any of the novels prior to playing W3, so I never really saw the ultimate darkside of Nilfgaard and Emhyr. After completing W3 first time around, i looked up all scenes from W2 on YouTube (too lazy to play the game) and finished reading 4 of the Novels (last one being Time of Contempt), and have to say I'm starting to see the bigger picture about the politics going on. I no longer feel Nilfgaard and Emhyr consolidating their power over the North is a good idea, especially when it comes to Skellige. While obviously Radovid remaining in power is the worst possible scenario, Emhyr gaining power still leads to lots of bloodshed in the North.

I've also grown more fond of Djikstra of late. While it may seem that he's only helping Geralt for his own needs, the same can be said about Roche, who seems too much of an idealist while Sigi actually looks like he knows what he's doing. So in my second playthrough in NG+, I'm planning to let Djikstra takeover the North and drive back Nilfgaard. So the plan is still to go with the Empress route; positive reactions during conversations with Ciri, bring Ciri to meet Emhyr (cause i want that Nilfgaardian stallion), but instead of letting Nilfgaard win the war, I support Djikstra.

So I'm wondering if any of you have used this route, and what is the outcome? (googled it, can't seem to find an answer) I don't mind spoilers, just wanna know if you follow the Empress route and the only difference is Djikstra over Roche, does Ciri still become Empress? I know that Emhyr dies if Nilfgaard loses.

 

[Tooters]

After completing W3 first time around, i looked up all scenes from W2 on YouTube (too lazy to play the game) and finished reading 4 of the Novels (last one being Time of Contempt), and have to say I'm starting to see the bigger picture about the politics going on. I no longer feel Nilfgaard and Emhyr consolidating their power over the North is a good idea, especially when it comes to Skellige.

Nilfgaard is never the answer, Barbaric Southern invaders who kill all in their path, to hell with them!

While obviously Radovid remaining in power is the worst possible scenario, Emhyr gaining power still leads to lots of bloodshed in the North.

Radovid is the best option - or rather - Only in character option there is, Geralt isn't a regicide, he went through an entire game to clear himself of that, why'd he just jump back into being one.

Radovid wins the North back, frees the people of the North from the invader, brings a Queen of Temerian blood back onto the Temerian throne and saves thousands of Northern peoples from being butchered by the Black Ones.

Emhyr's whole combat plan is to send Cavalry running around butchering people until the army is forced to step in to defend the innocent, The Nilfgaardians are horrid - Radovid intends to kick them out of the North, simple as that.

Tankred Thyssen and Triss evacuate most of the magic users from the North, they live happily in Kovir for a few years, and then when the Witchhunts are over bam, back to how it was.

So the plan is still to go with the Empress route

Why? Ciri never wanted to be a Princess to start with, why would she even want to become the ruler of the empire that murdered her Grandmother and destroyed her home - I told Ciri and told her of Emhyr's plan - and she'd had enough of people plotting about her future, I stick by Ciri.

but instead of letting Nilfgaard win the war, I support Djikstra.

Djikstra is a spy, not to be trusted, not a man who is fit to be a ruler.

Blarrgh - Just break his other leg and be done with him.

 

[whitewoof]

Why? Ciri never wanted to be a Princess to start with, why would she even want to become the ruler of the empire that murdered her Grandmother and destroyed her home - I told Ciri and told her of Emhyr's plan - and she'd had enough of people plotting about her future, I stick by Ciri.

Lol. Not saying I want Ciri to become Empress in the my second playthrough. Just wondering if she will still end up becoming Empress if you decide to bring her to Emhyr (say out of goodwill to the Emperor, who's assisted Geralt in finding/defending Ciri, sort. of... and I love that scene where Geralt refuses money for finding Ciri), then let Djikstra/Radovid rule, what the outcome will be.

Seeing that Emhyr dies if Nilfgaard loses the war, will he have time to ensure Ciri succeeds him etc.. Need an answer for this. Hoping someone has tried this route. Would actually like Ciri to become a witcher in this playthrough but still shove it in Emhyr's face with the money rejection, and that black stallion <3

 

[ph3s]

Emhyr won't die in any case if you bring Ciri to him. That is his plan isn't it? to resign before the shit gets real

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Radovid is the best option - or rather - Only in character option there is, Geralt isn't a regicide, he went through an entire game to clear himself of that, why'd he just jump back into being one.

Imho the only in-character option for Geralt is to kill Radovid. Not because he likes to be involved in politics, not because he hates Radovid, not because he supports Nilfgaard, not because he likes to be an assassin, but simply because Radovid directly threatens the pure existence of the people Geralt loves and cares about. Geralt couldn't care less about what people call or do to him - if only his loved ones (especially Yen and Ciri, but also Triss, Dandelion, Zoltan and co.) are safe and sound. If Geralt has to die for that - he'll do.

So imo Radovid is the worst option of all. He's simply no option at all because he hates everyone Geralt loves and threatens their life. There is no way to discuss stuff with him, there are no compromises with him to make. Other than Emhyr - who is cold-hearted but still reasonable - he won't ever stop with what he does and there is no way to make him thing otherwise or to "soften his heart". So he has to go, to vanish, to be erased. Book-Geralt would know, feel that this is a chance he couldn't let go. He wouldn't risk the lives of those he loves for his own sake or political considerations. If the North has to fall to get his loved ones to safety he'd do so. That's actually the very essence of Geralt's character: He doesn't care who rules. One ruler is like the next for him. All he cares about are the people he holds dear. So if there is any "in-character" decision at all here it's Geralt taking part in Radovid's assassination imo.

 

[Avaricious]

Damn wrong. The ONLY in-character option for Geralt is to kill Radovid

I think he would dismiss the idea before even getting a chance to hear out the details, on the premise that getting involved in a royal assassination is too risky when he needs to be alive to save Ciri and fight the Wild Hunt.

Geralt doesn't know he's in a video game, putting himself in a life or death situation when he desperately needs to be alive just so that his friends can have easier lives in the north doesn't make a lot of sense. They can always flee to Kovir or a nilfgaardian province, even if Radovid wins the north. The persecuted aren't dumb, the circus that Ciri met already knew what was coming to them and made preparations to leave. Zoltan says he would be in Poviss if not for his debts etc.

Geralt could also have the belief that Dijkstra would find out a way to kill Radovid eventually, without needing a witcher.

To sum up, I think it's more in character for Geralt to ignore the assassination offer, but I don't think this is one of the choices where there is a definite "canonical" choice.

 

[Tooters]

Imho the only in-character option for Geralt is to kill Radovid. Not because he likes to be involved in politics, not because he hates Radovid, not because he supports Nilfgaard, not because he likes to be an assassin, but simply because Radovid directly threatens the pure existence of the people Geralt loves and cares about. Geralt couldn't care less about what people call or do to him - if only his loved ones (especially Yen and Ciri, but also Triss, Dandelion, Zoltan and co.) are safe and sound. If Geralt has to die for that - he'll do.

So imo Radovid is the worst option of all. He's simply no option at all because he hates everyone Geralt loves and threatens their life. There is no way to discuss stuff with him, there are no compromises with him to make. Other than Emhyr - who is cold-hearted but still reasonable - he won't ever stop with what he does and there is no way to make him thing otherwise or to "soften his heart". So he has to go, to vanish, to be erased. Book-Geralt would know, feel that this is a chance he couldn't let go. He wouldn't risk the lives of those he loves for his own sake or political considerations. If the North has to fall to get his loved ones to safety he'd do so. That's actually the very essence of Geralt's character: He doesn't care who rules. One ruler is like the next for him. All he cares about are the people he holds dear. So if there is any "in-character" decision at all here it's Geralt taking part in Radovid's assassination imo.

I thought similarly, until I realised that it was an entirely false assumption.


-Emhyr tried to kill Geralt, Kidnap Ciri and imprisoned Yen - he didn't plot with the Nilfgaardians to overthrough him, despite the fact that if he survives and hears of a certain ashen hair Witcheress he is certain to go after her.

-He wouldn't kill a certain Golden Dragon for Yennefer even if it meant that she may cure her infertility - Which he knew meant everything to her.

-He would rather die at the hands of Calanthe than kill Duny - a cursed man who meant nothing to him - who turned out to be the most evil man he would ever know.

- Triss runs off to Kovir, safe.

-Radovid has no plans for Ciri.

-Yennefer makes a home just outside Kaer Trolde - According to a page from a book someone posted on the Yennefer page, which sounds about right to me.

-Dandelion & Priscilla has no beef with Radovid.

-Radovid would'd dare attack Mahakam, Zoltan is safe.

-He spent an entire game ridding himself of the label of 'Regicide' so he clearly does care.

Geralt lives by Principle, not driven by fear or desperation.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I thought similarly, until I realised that it was an entirely false assumption.

I don't think so. The assumption is still fairly true.

-He wouldn't kill a certain Golden Dragon for Yennefer even if it meant that she may cure her infertility - Which he knew meant everything to her.

Completely different situation imo with a lot of different circumstances:

1) It's not a life-threateting situation for Yen or anybody Geralt holds dear (different goal/motivation).
2) There is progress in the books (and games), especially related to Geralt's and Yen's relationship.
3) It's never really cleared whether Geralt would have killed the Golden Dragon if he didn't know that it was Borch.
4) Geralt wouldn't kill an innocent man/being like Borch just for the tiny CHANCE to cure Yen's infertility - completely different situation to Radovid who is just a lunatic and murderer who supported and ordered mages and non-humans to be burnt at the stake.
5) Geralt doesn't have to kill Radovid himself. He just assists in the plan. That's less "guilt", so to say.

-He would rather die at the hands of Calanthe than kill Duny - a cursed man who meant nothing to him - who turned out to be the most evil man he would ever know.

There is no reason at all why he should have killed Duny back in the days. I don't see any connection to the stuff that's going on in TW3 about Radovid, sorry.

-Emhyr tried to kill Geralt, Kidnap Ciri and imprisoned Yen - he didn't plot with the Nilfgaardians to overthrough him, despite the fact that if he survives and hears of a certain ashen hair Witcheress he is certain to go after her.

Emhyr didn't try to kil Geralt. He sentenced him to death and Geralt accepted is fate. Completely different situation. And he never kidnapped Ciri. He's her father no matter what - and in the end he showed mercy and let them all go. That's something you can't expect from Radovid. There is no mercy, humanity or even fucking sense in him left - only pure hatred and infutuation, I'm afraid. I don't say that Emhyr is the perfect solution. It's just the lesser evil in the given situation.

- Triss runs off to Kovir, safe.

Who says that Radovid won't conquer Kovir next? Who says that he won't send spies/assassins to kill members of the lodge? No sorceress is safe as long as Radovid lives I'm afraid.

-Radovid has no plans for Ciri.

Ciri = sorceress = assumed member of the lodge = death

Simple.

-Yennefer makes a home just outside Kaer Trolde - According to a page from a book someone posted on the Yennefer page, which sounds about right to me.

What? Yen doesn't do anything like that. For the rest, read the passage about Triss above.

-Dandelion & Priscilla has no beef with Radovid.

True (or maybe not, since Dandelion worked for intelligence once and who knows what lunatic Radovid comes up with in the future?)

-Radovid would'd dare attack Mahakam, Zoltan is safe.

Zoltan is not in Mahakam. And it's not just about him, but about all non-humans in Radovid's realm. All of them have to fear about their lives.

-He spent an entire game ridding himself of the label of 'Regicide' so he clearly does care.

That was never the actual goal of TW2...

 

[carlos2033]

Truth to be told, no one of Geralt`s friends are in life danger in game of any monarch they have ``plot armor``, the rest is just fan fiction what might happen after someone win war

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Truth to be told, no one of Geralt`s friends are in life danger in game of any monarch they have ``plot armor``, the rest is just fan fiction what might happen after someone win war

You don't know that once you have to make the decision. That's the essence of a choice. If you look at it with all the consequences already known the choice is of course arbitrary...

 

[RiseOfRose1]

Truth to be told, no one of Geralt`s friends are in life danger in game of any monarch they have ``plot armor``, the rest is just fan fiction what might happen after someone win war

Well Radovid has meme armor if that counts.....

On a serious note, Geralt and Ciri themselves can take out Radovid's army if he wants to kill any of their loved ones.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

To sum up, I think it's more in character for Geralt to ignore the assassination offer, but I don't think this is one of the choices where there is a definite "canonical" choice.

Risky is everything Geralt does. Searching Ciri for Emhyr while being in Novigrad is also damn risky as well. Truth be told, everything Geralt does is fucking risky. Killing monsters for contract money is fucking risky.

And yeah, Geralt doesn't know he's in a video game. But that "argument" works in every direction. It's arbitrary. I can defend or attack every other argument with that one...

But you're right, it's not one of the "big" canonical situations imo. Actually none of TW3 is. The game's beyond (canonical) salvation anyway. The lore is butchered already so everything Geralt does is ok...

 

[carlos2033]

You don't know that once you have to make the decision. That's the essence of a choice. If you look at it with all the consequences already known the choice is of course arbitrary...

Sure that is true, but wasn`t Zoltan and Dandelion in danger from nilfgaard too when they invade Novigrad, i`m not trying to defend Radovid i don`t even care who wins war just speaking from game perspective.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Sure that is true, but wasn`t Zoltan and Dandelion in danger from nilfgaard too when they invade Novigrad, i`m not trying to defend Radovid i don`t even care who wins war just speaking from game perspective.

Why should they be in danger in that case? Emhyr has no quarrel with Dandelion at all and I can't remember Nilfgaard and Emhyr in specific pursuing non-humans.

 

[Tooters]

Completely different situation imo with a lot of different circumstances

Completely relevant - Matter of principle, its what he says throughout the story, he wouldn't fight the Dragon, Borch or not, he and his kind do not fight Dragons, and tries his best to dissuade Yennefer from attacking him, the only way he'd step in is to save Yen from the Dragon.

There is no reason at all why he should have killed Duny back in the days. I don't see any connection to the stuff that's going on in TW3 about Radovid, sorry.

Again, you missed the point, the point is that throughout the story he remained adamant that he would not kill for the gain of others which is exactly what he is doing by assisting in an assassination... and in the end jumped in to save the man who he was being blackmailed with the threat of death to kill.

Emhyr didn't try to kil Geralt. He sentenced him to death and Geralt accepted is fate. Completely different situation. And he never kidnapped Ciri. He's her father no matter what - and in the end he showed mercy and let them all go. That's something you can't expect from Radovid. There is no mercy, humanity or even fucking sense in him left - only pure hatred and infutuation, I'm afraid. I don't say that Emhyr is the perfect solution. It's just the lesser evil in the given situation.

Thanedd, Every else that ensued up to that point, which simply came down to Emhyr thought he'd got what he was after and was repaying the favour for Geralt saving him, and eye for and eye - fact is Emhyr is much more of a threat to Ciri.

Who says that Radovid won't conquer Kovir next? Who says that he won't send spies/assassins to kill members of the lodge? No sorceress is safe as long as Radovid lives I'm afraid.

Kovir is the richest country in the known world, it beat the combined armies of Kaewin and Redania before, its even richer now, and has the support of all the evacuated mages, not a chance, Radovid isn't stupid...

Ciri = sorceress = assumed member of the lodge = death

Simple.

Ciri doesn't need protecting from Radovid:

A) Astounding swordsman.
B) Can get out using her powers - Blinky blink.
C) Isn't well known to Radovid regardless.
D) She wasn't associated with the Lodge enough to be considered part of it.
E) Not a Sorceress, a Witcher - Radovid doesn't kill Witchers.

What? Yen doesn't do anything like that. For the rest, read the passage about Triss above.

It seemed like a pretty legit book to me, go check for yourself - Radovid has no interest in Skellige, no tactical advantage and nothing to gain from taking the isles other than years of civil unrest and rebellion.

Zoltan is not in Mahakam. And it's not just about him, but about all non-humans in Radovid's realm. All of them have to fear about their lives.

Unless he is suicidal he won't stay in Novigrad will he? So where else is a dwarf to go?
Geralt is indifferent to the racism of the world - Edge of the World, Every Novidgrad pyre he walks by without batting an eyelid, all the happenings in TW1 if you play the Witchers path, indifference etc.. etc...

True (or maybe not, since Dandelion worked for intelligence once and who knows what lunatic Radovid comes up with in the future?)

He's not exactly Djikstra is he? He isn't a major spy, he is a stupid bard who sold information from time to time - Not really of any concern.

That was never the actual goal of TW2...

Noooo, Of course not.. Roche broke him out of prison because why the hell not right? - Geralt followed Letho all over the place, and continued after getting Triss back, just for fun. Geralt went to confront Letho and Loc Muinne for giggles.

Geralt needed to be able to walk around the world and not be pulled in an executed and also needed to get Triss and his memories back, the three main points of TW2....

 

[carlos2033]

Why should they be in danger in that case? Emhyr has no quarrel with Dandelion at all and I can't remember Nilfgaard and Emhyr in specific pursuing non-humans.

Ah not emhyr particulary am not saying that he has anything against Geralt friends, just saying people die in war some nilfgardian soldier could kill them if they are in Novigrad when invade happens, well i don`t know how they fight in mediaval times but my guess it`s not just soldier on soldier civilians get hurt too.

 

[whitewoof]

Am I the only one who read Sword of Destiny and came to an understanding that Geralt was seriously contemplating killing the Golden Dragon for Yen before he had to defend that other mage from being beaten up? This shows he was willing to go completely against his principals, same with his red mist moment in Rivia. Hell, one of the first things in the Last Wish is him killing a few guys in a pub for no other reason than to attract the attention of Velerad for the Striga contract. That's pretty fucked up logic from the canon Geralt, I'm sure there's more rational ways of doing so.

I think the argument that he won't commit/assist regicide just because he spent a whole game before trying to clear his name of regicide is pretty weak. He's shown time and time again that when it comes to his loved ones, he's willing to put aside all his beliefs. If Ciri, Yen or Triss were being threatened, he'd kill all the kings of the North if he had to. So the argument is actually whether the lives of his loved ones are actually at risk with Radovid being in power, and even if they are, whether they would just escape to somewhere far away and safer.

This is up to the players/readers' interpretation and can be debated till the cows come home. I for one, believe if Radovid defeated Nilfgaard, he would continue to spread his grip over other countries, spreading his racist propaganda, hence putting the lives of a lot of Geralt's friends in danger. Plus, it won't be long before Witcher's start becoming hunted as well. So I say canonically, Geralt would at least contemplate Radovid's murder, same as how he contemplated killing that Golden Dragon for no other reason than to make Yen happy.

Anyways, this topic has strayed quite far off the path, which is, has anyone tried the Empress route but supported Djikstra/allowed Radovid to live? Still waiting for an answer/confirmation.

 

[carlos2033]

Anyways, this topic has strayed quite far off the path, which is, has anyone tried the Empress route but supported Djikstra/allowed Radovid to live? Still waiting for an answer/confirmation.

If i understand corectly your question is will Ciri become Empress if you let Dijikstra or Radovid win, even if you go empress route she will become either dead or witcher depending on other choices cuz if nilfgaard loses Emhyr is dead and there is no one to abdicate.

Because empress ending is only ending which happens several months after wild hunt is defeated, as she told you she is recieved letter from Emhyr and decided to go to Nilfgaard in empress ending and if Nilfgaard loses war Emhyr is dead so she never got that letter and so it`s not posible for her to become empress if Radovid or Dijikstra win.

 

[Tooters]

Am I the only one who read Sword of Destiny and came to an understanding that Geralt was seriously contemplating killing the Golden Dragon for Yen before he had to defend that other mage from being beaten up?

I took it as a closer parallel to the lifting of Princess Adda's curse - Yenna was pushing him, and was willing to put herself before the Dragon, because she knew that it would force Geralt to jump in and save her and, like with Adda, he wouldn't let himself die on someone else's behest; he would defend himself against the Dragon if it came to it, but with the Dragon being Borch, I doubt he'd kill Geralt either way.

I think the argument that he won't commit/assist regicide just because he spent a whole game before trying to clear his name of regicide is pretty weak.

He didn't plot to kill Emhyr, simply get Ciri back from him - and doesn't seem to give the thought that once he figures out that Geralt lied about Ciri's fate that he'd come after not only Ciri, but I assume he'd be pretty pissed off with a certain pair he hired to find said daughter...

On one hand a King, preoccupied by uniting the North and hunting down criminals like Philippa Eilhart and Djikstra and ridding the world of plotters who murdered Kings, allowed the North to be invaded and then turned on one another as soon as it happened.

On the other a Emperor who needs a cheap way off the throne so that he doesn't get stabbed, because he had already lost two wars and was no closer to winning a third, a very desperate Emperor who hired a certain Witcher who he has had a very long and rocky relationship with...

Then the whole 'Assassins of Kings' title, and storyline of TW2 is completely obsolete - If he didn't dig around in the plot then Triss wouldn't have been compressed, tortured and imprisoned by the Nilfgaardians - Oops, if he truly didn't care about ridding himself of the titled of Regicide he and Triss would've teleported off to Skellige or something and forgot about the whole affair.
And if it was simply about getting his memories back, once the Rose of Remembrance was picked Triss could've just restored his memory and then he'd wander off into the wilds to find Yennefer - It would have been significantly shorter.

Also Radovid must be the canonical ending, due to the fact that the Witch Hunts continue for 4 years after the war - Considering that the influence of the Eternal Fire was not spread or condoned by the Nilfgaardians and was abolished by Djikstra, Radovid must be the canonical winner of the war - who along with stopping the more dubious members of the Lodge's plans ala-Philippa also saves the Northern people from a life of subordination to an oppressive empire who would have made the people of the North 3rd class citizens also brings stability to the world at the expense of a few magic wielders and non-humans which sure beats the absolute genocide which would have occured had the people of the North rose up and threw out the Nilfgaardians later, who would they blame for their subjugation? Non-humans, there would be mass Pogroms all over the North and every non-human would die.

You seem to forget that non-human hate isn't an exclusive trait to Radovid, its a problem which occurs all over the North.

has anyone tried the Empress route but supported Djikstra/allowed Radovid to live? Still waiting for an answer/confirmation.

Carlos nailed it I think.

 

[whitewoof]

Thank you @carlos2033 ,much needed clarification.

P.S. - @MissMerigold , no offense, but you do realize that if you're playing on a pure canon perspective there is no way Geralt would have ended up with Triss right? Which I'm sure you would have done in one of your playthroughs. She's forever stuck in the friendzone in the canon Witcherverse unless she's manipulating Geralt's mind. Pure canon means Geralt would have replied 'sorry, I don't have the time for this' regarding any and all sidequest unless it was related to finding Ciri or one of his close friends' lives were in danger. So yeah, unless you're playing 110% to what canon Geralt would or would not have done, you can stop preaching about canonism and Radovidism.

I agree with your logic regarding Emhyr and Nilfgaard being as big of a threat or bigger than Radovid if he finds out about Ciri. But in the Witcher 3 story that you plotted where Radovid wins, Emhyr gets murdered for losing the war, Voorhis succeeds him (canon), and you have a situation where Radovid may find out about Geralt assisting Philippa and the remaining members of the Lodge, including breaking them out of the Oxenfurt prison. So I imagine in this world, if and when Radovid finds out, Geralt will automatically become the most wanted man in the North, and seeing that in this scenario Radovid would have spread his influence further, Geralt or anyone related to him would be in extreme danger. Of course you can argue that Geralt would have escaped to Kovir by then, but still, having the most powerful man in the North coming after you (who happens to be a much vile racist compared to Emhyr) is no small matter. I doubt Redania or the Church of the Eternal Fire are short on assassins. Just my two cents about whether the actual situation is any better if Radovid wins. Probably no better than if Emhyr wins, that why I'm opting to have both killed #TeamSigi