You were found by security leaving the room with Saburo's just murdered body still in it. You were found by security leaving the room with Saburo's just murdered body still in it. You were found by security leaving the room with Saburo's just murdered body still in it. You were found by security leaving the room with Saburo's just murdered body still in it.
If Takemura suspected foul play, even after it was confirmed a criminal trespasser was in the room, why wouldn't he assume you were the fall guy? Why would he kill Dex, Dex was just trying to cover himself out of fear or Arasaka Corp goons, like Takemura, of killing him? Why send your own cyborgs to eliminate a man who has dedicated his life to loyally serving your family and corporation, during a mission when he is doing just that?
I know the chain of events that happens, don't reply to this with a breakdown of the chain of events. Yes I paid attention. No I didn't skip cut scenes. This is horrible writing. This is fan fiction tier level of writing. It is a blatant abuse of plot armor tropes.
Yes, this is the precise point where the real level of writing shows itself.. There's no reason for Takemura to off Dex and for Harasaka to go straight after Takemura, aside from adding a superficial appearance of danger to the story. From then on the writing and characters' motivations often make little to no sense.
If something happens in a game or movie that under thoughtful analysis could or should have transpired differently, then I tend not to sweat it and go with it.
Fiction requires a certain 'suspension of disbelief'.
There are plenty of folk who will assess a game's sins or flaws or plot holes, but that doesn't seem like a lot of fun to me and just interferes with enjoying the game.
It's not going to change, that's what happens. Fine.
Takemura thinks I'm innocent of the killing, great. That's a handy break considering everything else going on.
Makes perfect sense. Takemura is sent to find Old Arasaka's alleged killer. He executes Dex as honor dictates because Dex is 1) an accomplice to the murder of his master and 3) a dishonorable traitor. He slaps V in the face, still thinking V is the killer. But in the meantime, Young Arasaka apparently decides (or has decided from the beginning) that it's best to just frame Takemura. Therefore, the cyborg assassins. Takemura connects the dots - Young 'Saka is the killer of his master.
Takemura is an archetypical "vengeful ronin" in the quest to bring justice to his master's killers. He struggles with the new reality of being independent and going against his own people. Great character.
Then immediately proceed to nicely sit V in the passenger's sit, and treating him like they're allies the whole scene while the assassins are not identifiable, sure.
Actually, Takemura thinks it's a patricide since the moment it happened but there's no reason for Harasaka to suspect that, the corp has no reason to be any less wary of Adam Smasher who was present as well. EVERYTHING points to V and Jackie, they're the perfect culprits and Yorinobu should have leveraged that.
I know the chain of events that happens, don't reply to this with a breakdown of the chain of events. Yes I paid attention. No I didn't skip cut scenes. This is horrible writing. This is fan fiction tier level of writing. It is a blatant abuse of plot armor tropes.
I think Takemura digs V out of the garbage heap because he just wants to get to the bottom of the issue and interrogate V.
3. But then Yorinobu sends the cyberninjas to kill them both in the car chase scene and Takemura adds 2 and 2 together, especially since he probably doubted Yorinobu from the very beginning. After all, Takemura was RIGHT there when it happened. And there was no immediately obvious evidence to implicate anyone else than Yorinobu.
4. While V is recuperating, Takemura does his own research.
Sorry to repeat myself but: Adam Smasher was right there as well but he keeps his Arasaka goon status without a hitch?
No obvious evidence to implicate anyone else than Yorinobu? What about the TWO GUYS WHO BROKE INTO HIS ROOM UNAUTHORIZED? Jizz. You guys would do anything to defend and explain poor writing.
Makes perfect sense. Takemura is sent to find Old Arasaka's alleged killer. He executes Dex as honor dictates because Dex is 1) an accomplice to the murder of his master and 3) a dishonorable traitor. He slaps V in the face, still thinking V is the killer. But in the meantime, Young Arasaka apparently decides (or has decided from the beginning) that it's best to just frame Takemura. Therefore, the cyborg assassins. Takemura connects the dots - Young 'Saka is the killer of his master.
Takemura is an archetypical "vengeful ronin" in the quest to bring justice to his master's killers. He struggles with the new reality of being independent and going against his own people. Great character.
We should have been given the choice of what to do with Dex. I wouldn't have killed him. I don't even consider it traitorous, Dex was doing what he had to. Dex acted accordingly and it was nothing personal. What changed in the 10 minutes of him killing Dex? None of this makes sense. Its horrible writing. The side quests are more engaging and better wrote than this. Its nothing but fucking awful and I'm not going to defend or laugh off plotholes because its CDPR and they are supposed to be the good guys of game devs.
'Vengeful Ronin'? I've seen the fucking guy for a total of 2 minutes, which 1:30 of he was on a mission to kill me. There was zero character development, as well as zero indications of what his character is. I am supposed to assume since he is japanese, that he has values and practices ancient japanese warrior virtues? thats retarded. its actually racist for me to assume that. No, i'm not a race baiter and I hate leftists, but i will be fucked before i judge someone's character on their culture and race.
Frame him for what?? out of a pure luck you were caught leaving, its already been framed on you, you were literally criminally trespassing in the most secure and private residence of NC. If anyone suspects the son they should also suspect you were involved. You did nothing to prove yourself, you were dead in a landfill and Takemura killed the only other person left alive that could explain to him what happened.
If something happens in a game or movie that under thoughtful analysis could or should have transpired differently, then I tend not to sweat it and go with it.
Fiction requires a certain 'suspension of disbelief'.
There are plenty of folk who will assess a game's sins or flaws or plot holes, but that doesn't seem like a lot of fun to me and just interferes with enjoying the game.
It's not going to change, that's what happens. Fine.
Takemura thinks I'm innocent of the killing, great. That's a handy break considering everything else going on.
I personally cannot suspend my disbelief after this or respect the narrative. I spent hours troubleshooting a game breaking audio glitch, that i only got partially fixed, that is entirely the games fault. I load back in to actually start playing to be go through this awful cutscene. The level of quality of this is so astoundingly horrid compared to the exhiliarating climax of Act 1.
I think Takemura digs V out of the garbage heap because he just wants to get to the bottom of the issue and interrogate V.
3. But then Yorinobu sends the cyberninjas to kill them both in the car chase scene and Takemura adds 2 and 2 together, especially since he probably doubted Yorinobu from the very beginning. After all, Takemura was RIGHT there when it happened. And there was no immediately obvious evidence to implicate anyone else than Yorinobu.
4. While V is recuperating, Takemura does his own research.
1. Don't come to story subsection of forums. Also moments after the events I described were used in marketing. I am discussing the end of a prologue. Anyone who doesn't want that spoiled should not even click on this subsection of the forums.
2. He indiscriminately murdered Dex, a man who could help him. There is no excuse for this. This problem is also exasperated by how broken this game is.
Stop defending this awful writing guys. This is horrible and CDPR needs to be admonished for this. We wouldn't let EA or Ubisoft off the hook for releasing a broken game that doesn't run, with a story that doesn't make sense. Why are you defending CDPR for doing the same? They are literally placed themselves on the same tier as the big bad companies.
CDPR treated their employees unethically with crunches going on the better part of 2020....for this? People were working themselves to death...for this??
Makes perfect sense. Takemura is sent to find Old Arasaka's alleged killer. He executes Dex as honor dictates because Dex is 1) an accomplice to the murder of his master and 3) a dishonorable traitor. He slaps V in the face, still thinking V is the killer. But in the meantime, Young Arasaka apparently decides (or has decided from the beginning) that it's best to just frame Takemura. Therefore, the cyborg assassins. Takemura connects the dots - Young 'Saka is the killer of his master.
Takemura is an archetypical "vengeful ronin" in the quest to bring justice to his master's killers. He struggles with the new reality of being independent and going against his own people. Great character.
I thought it was fine too, didn't see anything wrong with it. I am not sure why people need to "see everything" or "make sense of everything" at all times. Finding it a joy to unfold the material later with conversation and clues.
Takemura is a life long bodyguard and aide, as soon as his master was gone his days were numbered one way or another. Such relationships cannot be handed over, would be either an empty promotion somewhere far away or death. He failed at his duty.
As for Dex, he's a middleman, once you have V he is a loose end. More than one reason to knock him off. Also by his appearance and dialogue it looked like Takemura had worked him over hard already, V's location was likely the only thing keeping him alive.
I thought it was fine too, didn't see anything wrong with it. I am not sure why people need to "see everything" or "make sense of everything" at all times. Finding it a joy to unfold the material later with conversation and clues.
if i didnt want to see or make sense of everything, I would play open world Ubisoft games. I do not buy CDPR or play their titles for anything besides narrative. Narrative has always been this companies strongest point.
I thought it was fine too, didn't see anything wrong with it. I am not sure why people need to "see everything" or "make sense of everything" at all times. Finding it a joy to unfold the material later with conversation and clues.
You do you of course, but I personally need to understand what is going on. Certainly if they are going to spend hours of my life on story elements. If you are making a plot twist, don't wait hours to explain wtf has just happened. If you understand that what you wrote makes no sense of course.
They had this "relic", only one for some reason, why did they choose to put the mind of a terrorist inside it? And then kept it for 50 years? Why does Takemura need me alive? Big fan of Johnny? People who matter will trust my pinky swear testimony about the murder? I don't really care if it's all revealed in the final cutscene, I have to live in a world where nothing makes sense in the meantime and pretend all is well. If at least V had acknowledged that things are strange, if may point to these plot holes are taken care of and to a big reveal at the end, but as things are now, the only thing to assume is that the writers are not very good, to remain polite.
When these things happen I personally lose interest in the story and start skipping dialogue. Except I won't put it beneath them to put some mission critical info into useless banter.
I don't really care if it's all revealed in the final cutscene, I have to live in a world where nothing makes sense in the meantime and pretend all is well.
Your whole post is spot on but rest assured that nothing is revealed in the final scene either. And yes, the WHOLE premise is based on faulty logic with Arasaka making a copy of Johnny's mind in the first place, it makes literally 0 sense for them to do that, the devs were not even bothered to come up with a reason.
What do you mean nicely? He bitch-slapped him, hit where it hurts most - dignity. He looked like he's only not killing him because the gravity of V's alleged crime demanded punishment that was not his to exact.
High-tech ninja cyborgs, who could that be? It might have been a little more explicit to cater to the... ehem... "wider audience" but personally I found it pretty obvious.
And yes, the WHOLE premise is based on faulty logic with Arasaka making a copy of Johnny's mind in the first place, it makes literally 0 sense for them to do that, the devs were not even bothered to come up with a reason.
In the interrogation scene, they say someone from Arasaka family died in the explosion. His wife, iirc. I suppose Arasaka saw this as an opportunity to exact punishment worse than death. Torture Johny for eternity or something. Cyber torture is a big notion in the cyberpunk genre.
But I agree here. This could have been more explicit.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play make1 Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES JACK A DULL BOY
ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES JACK A DULL BOY
ALL WORK AND NO PLAY MAKES JACK A DULL BOY
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy
Takemura is a life long bodyguard and aide, as soon as his master was gone his days were numbered one way or another. Such relationships cannot be handed over, would be either an empty promotion somewhere far away or death. He failed at his duty.
Yeah, this is a big part of the archetype. Traditionally, retainers of such close relationship were supposed to kill themselves when their masters died. It was to wash away the shame of failing one's duty but also a to honor the bond. But vengeance usually superseded that.
Also, Takemura with his unshaved face and messed up hair does look kinda like a bum. This is a striking resemblemce to Oishi from the tale of 47 Ronin who was pretending to be a bum while he was plotting his revenge. This story was coincidentally made into a movie with Keanu Reeves.
As for Dex, he's a middleman, once you have V he is a loose end. More than one reason to knock him off. Also by his appearance and dialogue it looked like Takemura had worked him over hard already, V's location was likely the only thing keeping him alive.
Actually, Takemura thinks it's a patricide since the moment it happened but there's no reason for Harasaka to suspect that, the corp has no reason to be any less wary of Adam Smasher who was present as well.
Arasaka didn't. Yorinobu did. He had massive daddy issues and wanted to stick it up to Saburo, so he took Saburo's most prized tech and put the mind of a man who Saburo condemned to virtual hell on it.
Because, as far as he knows, you're the last living witness of Saburo's murder.
This is actually the third time I've seen people confused about the relic, which is weird, because Yorinobu's past, his relations with his father, the source of the relic, how it ends up in Konpeki Plaza, it's all explained in the game. Do people skip dialogue in an RPG, or what?
Sorry to repeat myself but: Adam Smasher was right there as well but he keeps his Arasaka goon status without a hitch?
No obvious evidence to implicate anyone else than Yorinobu? What about the TWO GUYS WHO BROKE INTO HIS ROOM UNAUTHORIZED? Jizz. You guys would do anything to defend and explain poor writing.
Adam Smasher is the son's creature, Takemura is the father's. The story and character actions are reasonable form those perspectives. The writing is fine.
when V and Jackie was hiding behind TV screen, i thought Takemura saw both of them with his scan vision (red eye glow), and didnt say anything because he had other plans. He was like "ok let's see how this will play out"
