[ spoilers ] Blood and Wine Ending. WTF?!

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Detlaff did the mass killings because you gave an ultimatum. So the attack logically follows the ultimatum.

The real question is if Detlaff would have given that ultimatum?

Indeed. I talked about the massacre in general because I was a bit lazy to go into detail, but yes, you are totally right.

I 100% buy into the concept that Detlaff would demand Syanna appear and that he would have given some type of threat. And I 100% buy into the concept that if his demand was not met he would carry out his threat. Powerful people and governments do that all the time so it fits.

The real question and issue for me is what would his threat really have been? The writers picked the whole city to enhance the story but I think it would have been something different. A royal person at random till Syanna came to see him or something like that.

That sounds far more reasonable to me, to be honest. I agree that Dettlaff is the type of guy who would fulfill his threats, but I don't think at all that he would threaten to slaughter a whole city just like that.
 
And I was more than happy to tell Syanna that she's just not as interesting as she imagines. Particularly after she told me that she had her ways to deal with strong and quiet men and after her particularly infuriating raid in the library of Yen dialogues ("it's a dog's life" and "well, chop chop"). Observing that face closely whenever another one of her tricks failed was great. There are always short moments of her real face behind the flirty "oh but you must understand my sad story" masquerade. It was also far more satisfying to stop her final resort of "okay, then I'll just fuck him to get him on my side" than to watch that silly little porn cutscene.

Even though that meant that I finally broke character. It was the "I hump everything that doesn't run away" playthrough. God, these sex cutscenes were repetitive.

Didn't even feel like watching the other two endings this time anymore. I'm sold on my personal canon ending (Detlaff lives, I investigate but won't tell the duchess at that inappropriate time; I'll head canon that I give the information to Dandelion and let him handle it.) ;)


Curiously enough, by the way: Anarietta and Damien will be in that little pavillon at the palace after the complete end of BaW's mainquest, and can be interacted. And Anarietta did not try to rip off my head and she was back to coherent state.

"Grief will pass" = confirmed. :p
 
Syanna manipulated Detlaff and she deserved to be punished, but Detlaff lost his reason too when he attacked the city, not to mention that he could've asked for help. I used to think that killing murderers was the best punishment for them, but I have changed my mind about that. Unfortunately, Detlaff wouldn't let himself be punished another way other than being killed. So, in my "perfect ending", there's no room for him to live.

Even though I like to do the happy endings on my first playthroughs because, well, I like to see everyone happy, I really like the sad endings too. My prefered sad ending for BaW is where Detlaff, Syanna and Annarietta dies. The city the day after both sisters dies is so atmospheric, cloudy sky, few people on streets, silence... and when you get to the crypts to leave some roses for Annarietta and you are given the option to leave a rose for Syanna too and then Geralt says to Syanna: "And all this, what did it bring you... Rest in peace."... damn... that shit broke me. I think this is the end that fits the better.
 
I think Annarietta's behavior fits her character from the books. She's quick tempered and makes emotional decisions forgetting her status as head of state.

The skip forward in time was criminal. It's just stupid of Geralt and Regis to sit on their thumbs for a few days while they know Dettlaff isn't one for idle threats.
 
Blood And Wine : Why is killing syana bad end?

Hello there,

not a long time ago I finished Blood and Wive, however this time I wanted Syana to be killed, because in my opinion she deserves it...right? I was she all time, Detlaff was only her tool. Of course he shouldn't attack Beclair, murdering many in the city ... but that's his only crime.

So I'd really want to know what do you think about this? Because this is really bad ening right? :D You end up in the prison, Anna hates you and EVEN after you bring her the proof that her sister wanted to kill her ... she just doesn't belive you.

I was sad for Regis who had to kill him so now he is a traitor and every other vampire hates him.

So what is your opinion?
 
So what is your opinion?
Yeah. I agree with everything you said in this posting. :)


That's why I've taken to refer to the endings as:

- "good ending" (Dettlaff lives, Syanna dies, Anarietta will get over the grief fast enough, Regis not tainted, Dandelion finally gets the chance to contribute something useful, Geralt can keep Corvo Bianco and is not harassed by anyone) (Oh, don't try to give Anarietta the evidence. Do a headcanon "I'll give Dandelion the proof and let him handle it. He's got some good social skills.")

- "(unrealistic) fairytale ending, let's bow to Duchess Syanna in a couple of weeks once she murdered her sister" (Dettlaff dead, Syanna lives, Anarietta lives, Regis in exile)

- "bad ending" (everyone dies, Regis in exile) (ideally done via Unseen Elder path to make things extra gloomy, unless player prefers to combine it with a "Geralt is a clutz without social skills" in the ribbon method...)


I don't really have a catchy title for:

- "..." (Dettlaff dead, Syanna dead, Anarietta will get over grief fast enough, Regis in exile).

I don't have a thing for "this is the endboss! I must kill the endboss! grah!" in witcher games - Letho always lived, and leaving Aldersberg to Eredin opens up the opportunity to headcanon "Aldersberg = Caranthir", which has a certain charme. ;)

So, when Dettlaff offers the endboss fight after executing the Beast of Beauclair, I didn't see any reason yet to jump in his face.
 
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My opinion is that Dettlaff lost all sympathy when he killed dozens or even hundreds of innocent people in Beuclair and doesn’t even acknowledge at all that what he is doing is wrong, the opposite actually. Maybe it's his only crime, but it's an inexcusable one and something far worse that what Syanna has done. Because yes ok, she killed people, but only the ones who abused her. Dettlaff was like a kid with a nuke and he had to be killed. With Syanna, I can’t help but feel the urge to help her, to save her from herself.
 
For me it was the right Choice to kill Dettlaff! Maybe he was tricked by Syanna, but he was still a Monster and a Psychopath that couldn't handle emotions and aggression!

So i let Syanna live! I mean sure, she isn't a good person either but at least she had her reasons! And i really liked Anna and i thought killing Syanna wouldn't be good for Anna too, because after all Anna loved her sister! And Syanna could finally forgive Anna!

And well Regis...i didn't feel that it was really bad for him killing Dettlaff! As he said:"Out of sight, out of mind" So he would just leave Toussaint for a while and it would be okay.

But Regis is surely now one of my most favorite characters in the game! There is something special about him i don't know....i just love how he criticizes different societies and how he studies behaviors of different species! He is just a very philosophical person!
And also with him killing Dettlaff he show's that everyone can break rules, even Vampires/Monsters! He chooses Morality over Rules!

And the dialog with him at the end...well, that's one of the best written dialog's in the game in my Opinion!
 
Everybody died on my first playthrough, which was a bit of a shock as I was expecting things to go a different way - I didn't fall for any of Syanna's BS, and I warned Annarietta that she would be the 5th victim after doing some more investigating, so I was assuming I would get the Good(ish) ending of Anna NOT being an idiot and winding up murdered because she refused to believe that Syanna, a murderer, would murder her.

Also I was very much thinking of the short story in the books where

as the Syanna-like character Renfri is dying, she seems to repent the things she's done and asks Geralt to hold her. He doesn't, and when she dies you see that she was concealing a dagger that she would have stabbed Geralt with, had he gone near her.

Geralt knew that a lifetime of anger and not only planning revenge but acting on it wasn't going to be magically cured by a single conversation, and it would be foolish to expect that to happen - which is why I was really surprised when it turns out in B&W that that is EXACTLY what does apparently happen! I thought for sure the idea that the two sisters could reconcile was a red herring for the maybe more idealistic players to be taken in by before all hell breaks loose :D
 
So far, I've only seen the "Everybody Dies" and "Sisters forgive each other" endings (one ending each path). I think I preferred the latter, though there was some poetic justice to the former (especially since I followed the investigation, discovered the 5th victim evidence, told everybody before hand and even told Anarietta something like "I think you should be extra careful around Syanna", the guard tried to block Syanna approaching; and after all that, anarietta still stared down the guards and got within stabbing distance of her sister).

However, the ending I wanted to be able to get would have been for Geralt to "finish" Detlaff (with fire, as Regis was "killed"), Show the head (or some other trophy for proof) and have Regis take the remains and help him slowly recover while talking sense into him while he was too weak to escape the scolding (would also allow Regis to "Repay" Detlaff's assistance). Even if Syanna dies, that would satisfy my urge to make sure Detlaff pays for being as childish as Syanna with his attack on the city but prevent Regis from being punished in the process.

Maybe if he had to go through a decade of recovery and physical therapy he could learn to deal with his emotions, or at least realize it is a flaw he must learn to deal with.

As it stands, I'll try for the Detlaff and Syanna die version when I play again, because that sounds the most reasonable based on what the story has to offer so far. Syanna is understandable, but inexcusable. Detlaff, without Night of Long Fangs, would have earned a reprieve from me; but because of his tantrum he needs something more than to go free...
 
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Finished the main story of B&W yesterday and still have some mixed feelings about it. WARNING: This is going to be a long post :)

Initially, I went for Syanna's path because I trusted Regis and thought that bringing Syanna to Dettlaff would stop the bloodshed. Also, I thought that I could avoid fighting him - I really didn't want to because I pitied the guy, even after all he had done and even though he's dangerous. When I realised that the stupid ribbon had saved Syanna and I had to fight Dettlaff, I wanted to reload, do Fairyland again without getting the ribbon and let Dettlaff kill Syanna. I didn't, though, mainly because I wanted Geralt to have that medal (and get the PS4 trophy *ahem*) and a good ending with Toussaint cheering him as their hero. The fight against Dettlaff wasn't THAT bad once I had figured out how he operated and what I needed to do. After three attempts, he was dead. Then the mistakes began.

For starters, I investigated some more - and here's a thing that really bugged me about the writing: Geralt and Regis both are clever guys. Both have been around for quite a while. Yet they acted all surprised when they found out that Anna Henrietta was supposed to be the last victim. Really? The moment I found Syanna and discovered she was behind everything, I knew she was out to get her sister as well. But Geralt and Regis were all "OMG, gosh, never would have thought THAT". That was just stupid and inconsistent.

What I didn't realise was that the conversation with Syanna was crucial and that the conversation during the ceremony was not. When Syanna asked if Geralt could guess why she wanted to kill her sister, I went with "Because you're jealous" which was probably the wrong answer. Nah, I'm pretty sure it was the wrong answer. Maybe I should have gone for "Because you think she forgot you and that she doesn't have a heart". For some reason, that response didn't make much sense to me. I always had the feeling that despite all the anger and the bad treatment she received from others, Syanna was jealous of her sister. So I went with that answer.

When she insulted Geralt ("Regis used you, I just wanted to fuck [which Geralt didn't do, btw] blablabla"), I chose to tell her what a pathetic little worm she was. That, I think, was the second mistake because at the end of the conversation, she told Geralt she'd try to kill Anna Henrietta anyway. So I told Damien, thinking that this would suffice. Stupid, stupid, stupid. During the ceremony, I thanked Anna Henrietta for the Sangreal instead of telling her that her sister wanted to kill her. I don't know if this would have changed anything. Maybe she would have said something along the lines of "Oh, nonsense, she'd never do that" because she loved her sister despite everything Syanna had done. I think that Anna Henrietta would have walked up to Syanna embracing her anyway, even if I had warned her because that conversation in Syanna's room was more important to the ending than everything else.

This really bugs me. In the end, both sisters were dead. Dettlaff was dead. Regis was an exile though I don't think he minds because he's always kept to himself. But the rest really annoys me because it put a gloomy feeling over beautiful Toussaint. Of course, I could have reloaded and tried to save Anna Henrietta. I didn't. Because in my next playthrough, Syanna won't get that ribbon. I'll let Dettlaff kill her. And I'll let him get away with it. I still think that's the right thing to do. Yes, he's dangerous and easily manipulated but Regis has stated over and over again that Dettlaff hates killing innocent people. We saw how worked up he was when he had to kill that guy who had become his friend. He even chopped off his own hand. I think he deserves his revenge even though he killed so many people.

At the same time, I think Syanna is a victim as well. She's been treated badly all her life because of some superstition and finally became what everybody expected her to become. Still, I don't have much sympathy for her. Unlike Dettlaff, she chose to kill innocent people and made him her tool. In the end, both Syanna and Dettlaff are victims. I don't think there's a good ending for every character in this story simply because our choices are limited. If I could have it my way, I'd let Dettlaff go, imprison Syanna for life or execute her and have Anna Henrietta rule Toussaint until her death.
 
@Jehane:

1. while in interaction/cutscene dialogue mode with the diary of the nurse and with Regis: read the whole diary. All entries. This gives you pointers for fabulously empathic responses to some of Syanna's bullshit later on.

2. In Wonderland: be super hyper sympathetic and empathic with Syanna. Never disagree with anything she says.
- tell her that it is totally understandable that she wanted revenge and thus went on a murder spree.
- don't get mad at her when she tells you that she only fucked Dettlaff to get a useful tool
- don't get wary when she tells you proudly that she has her ways with silent strong men (like yourself)
- tell her that she looks fantabulously pretty in that stupid cape
- be interested in her amazing biography when she offers fascinating insights (instead of telling her that she's just not as interesting as she thinks)

3. Get that ribbon!!

4. having sex with her or not should not actually matter, but maybe just hold your nose, look away and do it to be on the safe side.

5. It shouldn't matter if you tell Syanna, Regis or both of them to calm down. Tell Regis to shut up to be on the safe side and to go for "fully played by Syanna now" roleplay, if you want.

6. go investigate the 5th letter, be absolutely STUNNED that the 5th victim is Anarietta :p

7. go talk with Syanna.
- tell her that the reason was that Anarietta was just a child (best excuse for just about everything, isn't it!) Syanna will eat out of your hand if you say that
- then add one or two more totally sympathetic and empathic lines and you can see her fake a tear. At this point, you succeeded

8. it does not matter if you inform Damien

9. it also does not matter if you inform Anarietta.
 
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Thanks, @Lytha! I'll keep that in mind next time I play the game :) I did read all the entries but I think I messed up in Fairyland and later when talking to Syanna. It'll be a pleasure next time around *hehe*
 
Unlike Dettlaff, she chose to kill innocent people and made him her tool. In the end, both Syanna and Dettlaff are victims. I don't think there's a good ending for every character in this story simply because our choices are limited. If I could have it my way, I'd let Dettlaff go, imprison Syanna for life or execute her and have Anna Henrietta rule Toussaint until her death.

Eh...what? Syanna didn't kill any innocent people. The deaths she called for (with the exception of her sister) truly deserved it. She only wanted to kill four sadistic knights who raped and tortured her. Syanna even admits the reason she's willing to go meet Dettlaff is to stop the destruction of Beauclair, which means she would prefer to minimise spilled blood. Dettlaff on the other hand does murder hundreds of innocent people when he launched a terrorist attack on the city. I agree that he got dealt a rather shitty hand, but even if he is like a child and doesn't really understand it doesn't really excuse the way he acts. He is a spoiled brat, doing whatever suits him fancy coz he is stronger than anybody. He is completely off his rocker at that point and needed to be put down.
 
Hang on - the four knights raped and tortured Syanna? Must have missed that bit o_O How's that possible? *argh*
It doesn't justify her actions, though - even in that world, there are trials, and Anna Henrietta would surely have helped her get justice. I still think it's wrong to make another person the tool of vengance, however justified these deaths may be. But manipulating a higher vampire into doing these killings for her? I mean - she could have gone to Dettlaff, told him what those guys did and asked him to deal with them. Instead, she chose to fake her own abduction and was thus responsible for a lot of bloodshed at Dun Tynne - everybody got killed there because of her. Lots of people in Beauclair got killed because of her - although I would also hold Anna Henrietta responsible for the attack on Beauclair. Geralt told her that Dettlaff would attack the city if he couldn't talk to Syanna; she should have listened to that and could have prevented a lot of death.
 
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