[SPOILERS] Cats, Pyramids and Egyptian symbolism ?

+
Tarot cards point to the old metaphore of Fool's journey (V) to the World (Ending).


There is also a philosophical motive in the game of gaining wisdom through Enlightenment. The process of enlightenment always need some kind of death and loss (literally or metaphorically - in both senses - happening to V throughout the game) in order to gain the truth/understanding and to complete the process.
And the motive of losing fear of death (V's afraid of death, I believe no matter what choices you make)which also ties in to gaining enlightenment.

Probably these things were known but it is good to point out and remeber these.
 
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The symbolism is cool, but it really doesn't connect with me... Mostly because the ending is so bad and nothing is resolved. There is no meaning behind the symbols if the character's actions don't echo them.

It's a yin and yang issue. I imagine my V as being emotional but not acting out on their emotions (based on my playing style), but this game seems to want you to leap before you look and that's weird to me. It seems like everyone around you except Saburo has the best intentions and passion to do what's right, but nobody stops and looks at things through a wide lense. It feels like everything in Night City is hopelessly out of balance. The only exception is Misty. Takemura has his moments of clarity which is why I like his character so much. Despite his loyalty to the Arasakas, he admits the problems the corps have caused. But he understands that things cannot be changed overnight. Everyone else in this game does not think of the long term consequences of their actions and who is affected by them. Silverhand's already destroyed Arasaka tower once and it did nothing. It was just a bloodbath in which no real change was made. No consideration on the impact on the world. Should Arasaka and the corps be dismantled? Yes. But, as Takemura said, "you offer no alternative" to the corpos to keep the world stable. And there's the problem. So we defeat Mikoshi and Arasaka. What next? How does that help the world? How do you justify the collateral damage? Does V and friends even think about what kind of power vacuum will be made? Do they know what exactly will happen to the souls in Mikoshi?

They barely understand Mikoshi. Most of the "souls" there chose to be there. That's how they chose to "end" their life. By destroying Mikoshi, you have denied people their dying wish. Of course Mikoshi is bad and no one should have had the option, but there is a difference between someone deciding before death to be an engram and someone never having the option.

By going into Mikoshi, and being in the inner circle of the Arasakas when she gets out, V has the potential to make actual change in the world. She has the potential to use her power and connections in Arasaka to stop evil practices going on in high society, or do it as a spy if needs to. I'm very active in politics myself so that really appeals to me.

The thing that made me SO angry at the end was that there was no option for V, Takemura, and Johnny to sit down and compromise on how to handle the Yorinobu confrontation. Johnny is half of V, so everything V did for Takemura and everything Takemura did for V was also done by and to Johnny. Therefore, if they all sat together and talked it through they could make concessions with each other. Takemura is honorable and owes V a lot. Johnny getting mad about V not wanting to do things his way just showed he hasn't grown, and V just blowing off Johnny to go to Hanako wasn't right either. All 3 want and deserve revenge, but their revenge shouldn't dominate them to the point they destroy their relationships.

The best ending would be if V and Johnny, agreed to let Takemura handle the Arasakas on his own, and Takemura agreed to look away while V and Johnny destroyed Mikoshi to get revenge for Alt and Jackie. I think he would be willing to do that, since Takemura really just wants to get revenge with Hanako. He obviously doesn't care about the collateral damage since in the other ending he is literally joining you in storming Arasaka tower. I can't believe this wasn't the ending in the game. It pisses me off.
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Tarot cards point to the old metaphore of Fool's journey (V) to the World (Ending).


There is also a philosophical motive in the game of gaining wisdom through Enlightenment. The process of enlightenment always need some kind of death and loss (literally or metaphorically - in both senses - happening to V throughout the game) in order to gain the truth/understanding and to complete the process.
And the motive of losing fear of death (V's afraid of death, I believe no matter what choices you make)which also ties in to gaining enlightenment.

Probably these things were known but it is good to point out and remeber these.
Enlightenment is about balance, there were no options at the end that achieved balance. No one in the end learned to resist the Three Poisons, which are Hate, Greed, and Delusion. Everyone wanted their own way and gave in.

Johnny: Hatred
V: Greed
Takemura: Delusion
 
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Johnny: Hatred
V: Greed
Takemura: Delusion
This point of view is true for the ending you describe, but my first play through ended very differently to this.
Takemura was dead, V went with Alt and Johnny had finally come to terms with life and was moving on and Araska was reeling but not out.

My second play through was also different, Hanako was dead, Takemura was angry at V's betrayal, Johnny went with Alt and V left (quite happily) with the Nomads and Judy. Because Yorinobu "won" in Arasaka in this ending it was damaged but fine.

I have also had a Nomad ending where Arasaka is devastated and seems likely to crash and burn.

And this is one of the difficulties with the discussion, the ending of the story isn't a fixed thing. Different decisions do ripple through the game, they just don't all end up punching you in the face with some obvious sign of how they changed things.
 
Enlightenment is about balance, there were no options at the end that achieved balance. No one in the end learned to resist the Three Poisons, which are Hate, Greed, and Delusion. Everyone wanted their own way and gave in.
Enlightenment is not only about balance. I assume you think about it in some religious sense but it dont have to be in the buddhist/hindi way etc. Its a common theme across history and places.
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The symbolism is cool, but it really doesn't connect with me... Mostly because the ending is so bad and nothing is resolved. There is no meaning behind the symbols if the character's actions don't echo them.
I agree with this. The game has to be a good game first to do the art part right.
 
[EDIT - DISCLAIMER]
It's been a couple weeks since this first post

I no longer believe V dies by connecting to Mikochi, i won't edit my posts for the sake of preserving the reflection continuity, please bare in mind this is an ongoing analysis and all contributions are welcome
CP77's story is deceptively deep from a figurative standpoint, and all other issues aside i would really love for that to get the recognition it deserves


-----

To start off i'd like to address something i've read a lot, and that is who is V after connecting to Mikoshi.
I've seen a lot of people take for granted the idea that it's just V's soul, but in a different state of existence.

Me i simply can't wrap my head around the idea that the whole Mikoshi trip is as simple as a "transfer of psyche" like Johnny puts it.

Alt uses much less optimistic words, when you ask if you can trust her she says "No" and she says there's no good reason for you to get transferred, she uses "your" body, but from an AI perspective, because that's the compatible body, not because that's V's actual body

So which one is it, is engram V a copy transferred in dead V's body or is it plain old regular V ? And if you're more convinced by the former, wouldn't it mean original V was gone already when Dex shot her in the head and the Relic reconstructed her, so by the end you've already gone through multiple versions of V ?

And what about Judy or your other romances when you come back ? Arguably i didn't like the Sun ending, not only because Judy leaves - which makes complete sense in character considering what V becomes - but because it removes the ability of the player to decide why that option. I didn't originally pick it in order to become famous, i did because i wanted to come back to Judy, and because i didn't know at the time Alt was going to straight up fry V's brain. The game decided for me i actually wasn't doing it for her. But i digress.

In any case if you come back to Judy in a "happy" conclusion with the Star ending, by alll intents and purposes it seems exposed as the most optimistic "rebirth" ending. That bird is there for a reason, they're supposed to be exterminated.

But if you see V as a copy of the original, doesn't that leave you with a lot of questions and a very weird taste in the mouth ?

Considering that, where a lot of players argue it's the "bad ending", wouldn't the Devil ending be the best ?
The only one where V gets to keep living with some hope and doesn't get replaced with a copy ? Not to mention it's the only one ending where Goro doesn't get fucked over, for some players the best friend you made along the way. Hanako in that ending is also much more supportive than people would care to give her credit for, and that's a lot considering her values.

I'd say despite the lack of player agency, there is room for the player to end up choosing what's the most fitting ending for their V still, even though that unfortunately requires to go through all the options and find which one you prefer instead of having that come up organically. And i really miss an ending where you're allowed to acknowledge engram V is not the original V, but on the other hand here's why maybe it simply doesn't matter :

Cats and Pyramids

View attachment 11124836
View attachment 11124839


I've seen many people refer to Judy's (Radiohead) Pyramid Song as an echo of the Tarot, i saw it as an echo of the Egyptian mythology

For starters, well, Pyramid, reaching Alt literally (visually) puts you on a path to a Pyramid

View attachment 11124842



Then every single "live" cat you see in the game is a Sphynx, that is not innocent.
The Sphinx in Egyptian mythos devours anyone who fails to answer their riddle.
To me that points at V's fate were she to fail to find her own existential answer. No matter which ending.
Cats on their own, in this game, seemingly appear only to people with a strong tie with the "other world", they're messengers of the gods.
Very few people acknowledge their existeence, Misty and Vik do, you get to have one at your appartment, and more curiously they seem to be aware of Johnny's presence.

The Star ending to me ends with V crossing the Styx
First, because that really echoes an Obole
View attachment 11124857

Second, because the last, third person shot shows her leaving it behind, riding over what looks like an endless ocean

View attachment 11124860


> "I jumped in the river and what did I see? "
Mikoshi ? (literally a god's palanquin) The Styx ?

> "Black-eyed angels swam with me"
Engram Johnny and AI/Goddess Alt ? Cats ?

> "A moon full of stars and astral cars
> All the things I used to see"
Leaving Night City behind ? The more i think about it the more it sounds like the City of the Dead, a sort of purgatory of the soul

> "All my lovers were there with me"
Judy, Panam, all your friends... Except poor Goro who would deserve an entire analysis just for himself but to me because he's the catalyst of an entirely different life philosophy.

> "All my past and futures"
How many iterations of V did we incarnate throughout the entire game ?

> "And we all went to heaven in a little row boat"
Crossing the Styx aboard the Basilisk, followed by the Aldecaldos convoy (and Judy)

> "There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt"
V will find her own meaning, as echoed by your last interaction with Cassidy

In other words, to survive V will need to create her own meaning, and whether she's a copy or not becomes just one question among many others.
Note that, from my perspective and due to all this, the "best" ending cannot be achieve otherwise than being female V, falling in love with Judy, and asking for help to the Aldecaldos.

View attachment 11124914

But this is completely up to your own interpretation.

Thank you for reading, i'm very curious to hear your own take on this because despite all the disappointment i had with CP77, the story is obsessing me and the more i think about it the more i realize despite all its shortcoming it's a brilliant piece of writing.

edit/addendum - There is a whole lot to unpack about all the elements you find throughout the game, who is which Tarot card, why V is the Fool, why Rogue, Johnny and Smasher are Gods and what is the Afterlife bar if not the Pantheon, why Arasaka are the mortals who defied the Gods, etc, but it'd take a whole lot more to dig into.
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Not sure anyone's really interesting in this discussion, but in case some of you are, i would highly recommend reading through this reddit analysis and comments by u/Sihplak

As well as this reddit post by myself and the comments where u/GVArcian helped reconcile V's "Ship of Theseus" problem to a close in my opinion, with their valuable input
What is your drink? I want it, too :)
 
Enlightenment is not only about balance. I assume you think about it in some religious sense but it dont have to be in the buddhist/hindi way etc. Its a common theme across history and places.
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I agree with this. The game has to be a good game first to do the art part right.
I was just mentioning it in that sense because buddhism seems to be a big part of the cyberpunk world.
 
(...)

They barely understand Mikoshi. Most of the "souls" there chose to be there. That's how they chose to "end" their life. By destroying Mikoshi, you have denied people their dying wish. Of course Mikoshi is bad and no one should have had the option, but there is a difference between someone deciding before death to be an engram and someone never having the option.

By going into Mikoshi, and being in the inner circle of the Arasakas when she gets out, V has the potential to make actual change in the world. She has the potential to use her power and connections in Arasaka to stop evil practices going on in high society, or do it as a spy if needs to. I'm very active in politics myself so that really appeals to me.

(...)

Yes it sad that we can't choose quite different reactions and try to come up with an own agenda for choosing how to tackle the end really. But i think you're a bit off-point on the Mikoshi/Arasaka angle.

Mikoshi holds Engrams from people killed by Soulkiller. Therefore also including people Arasaka also thought needed to die (e.g. Engram Johnny or Engram or
Jackie
. Yes there are also people who willingly entered it, but one can question how much true informations those people got before they entered the deal.
The symbology during the game points quite a lot towards a deal with the devil (e.g. Hell-Man; Save your Soul; The sole contract to sign as V) - which often contains withold full information, which then bides the people in the back...

The elite of Arasaka is the family of Arasaka, no one else truly included. Just look at how all Internal Security heads get zeroed within the game, how Yorinobu deals with the Board; and neither Hanako nor Michiko caring about that all too much. Takemura tells you that no one of the Arasaka family cares about you. And at least parts of the ending implies that V will stay in Mikoshi indefinately.
Arasaka will hold its word in the same way, the devil does...

One shouldn't forget that one of the underlying themes of Cyberpunk is, that the world is simply the outcome of unchecked human tendencies. Or even going beyond that towards extremes.
 
[EDIT - DISCLAIMER]
It's been a couple weeks since this first post

I no longer believe V dies by connecting to Mikochi, i won't edit my posts for the sake of preserving the reflection continuity, please bare in mind this is an ongoing analysis and all contributions are welcome
CP77's story is deceptively deep from a figurative standpoint, and all other issues aside i would really love for that to get the recognition it deserves


-----

To start off i'd like to address something i've read a lot, and that is who is V after connecting to Mikoshi.
I've seen a lot of people take for granted the idea that it's just V's soul, but in a different state of existence.

Me i simply can't wrap my head around the idea that the whole Mikoshi trip is as simple as a "transfer of psyche" like Johnny puts it.

Alt uses much less optimistic words, when you ask if you can trust her she says "No" and she says there's no good reason for you to get transferred, she uses "your" body, but from an AI perspective, because that's the compatible body, not because that's V's actual body

So which one is it, is engram V a copy transferred in dead V's body or is it plain old regular V ? And if you're more convinced by the former, wouldn't it mean original V was gone already when Dex shot her in the head and the Relic reconstructed her, so by the end you've already gone through multiple versions of V ?

And what about Judy or your other romances when you come back ? Arguably i didn't like the Sun ending, not only because Judy leaves - which makes complete sense in character considering what V becomes - but because it removes the ability of the player to decide why that option. I didn't originally pick it in order to become famous, i did because i wanted to come back to Judy, and because i didn't know at the time Alt was going to straight up fry V's brain. The game decided for me i actually wasn't doing it for her. But i digress.

In any case if you come back to Judy in a "happy" conclusion with the Star ending, by alll intents and purposes it seems exposed as the most optimistic "rebirth" ending. That bird is there for a reason, they're supposed to be exterminated.

But if you see V as a copy of the original, doesn't that leave you with a lot of questions and a very weird taste in the mouth ?

Considering that, where a lot of players argue it's the "bad ending", wouldn't the Devil ending be the best ?
The only one where V gets to keep living with some hope and doesn't get replaced with a copy ? Not to mention it's the only one ending where Goro doesn't get fucked over, for some players the best friend you made along the way. Hanako in that ending is also much more supportive than people would care to give her credit for, and that's a lot considering her values.

I'd say despite the lack of player agency, there is room for the player to end up choosing what's the most fitting ending for their V still, even though that unfortunately requires to go through all the options and find which one you prefer instead of having that come up organically. And i really miss an ending where you're allowed to acknowledge engram V is not the original V, but on the other hand here's why maybe it simply doesn't matter :

Cats and Pyramids

View attachment 11124836
View attachment 11124839


I've seen many people refer to Judy's (Radiohead) Pyramid Song as an echo of the Tarot, i saw it as an echo of the Egyptian mythology

For starters, well, Pyramid, reaching Alt literally (visually) puts you on a path to a Pyramid

View attachment 11124842



Then every single "live" cat you see in the game is a Sphynx, that is not innocent.
The Sphinx in Egyptian mythos devours anyone who fails to answer their riddle.
To me that points at V's fate were she to fail to find her own existential answer. No matter which ending.
Cats on their own, in this game, seemingly appear only to people with a strong tie with the "other world", they're messengers of the gods.
Very few people acknowledge their existeence, Misty and Vik do, you get to have one at your appartment, and more curiously they seem to be aware of Johnny's presence.

The Star ending to me ends with V crossing the Styx
First, because that really echoes an Obole
View attachment 11124857

Second, because the last, third person shot shows her leaving it behind, riding over what looks like an endless ocean

View attachment 11124860


> "I jumped in the river and what did I see? "
Mikoshi ? (literally a god's palanquin) The Styx ?

> "Black-eyed angels swam with me"
Engram Johnny and AI/Goddess Alt ? Cats ?

> "A moon full of stars and astral cars
> All the things I used to see"
Leaving Night City behind ? The more i think about it the more it sounds like the City of the Dead, a sort of purgatory of the soul

> "All my lovers were there with me"
Judy, Panam, all your friends... Except poor Goro who would deserve an entire analysis just for himself but to me because he's the catalyst of an entirely different life philosophy.

> "All my past and futures"
How many iterations of V did we incarnate throughout the entire game ?

> "And we all went to heaven in a little row boat"
Crossing the Styx aboard the Basilisk, followed by the Aldecaldos convoy (and Judy)

> "There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt"
V will find her own meaning, as echoed by your last interaction with Cassidy

In other words, to survive V will need to create her own meaning, and whether she's a copy or not becomes just one question among many others.
Note that, from my perspective and due to all this, the "best" ending cannot be achieve otherwise than being female V, falling in love with Judy, and asking for help to the Aldecaldos.

View attachment 11124914

But this is completely up to your own interpretation.

Thank you for reading, i'm very curious to hear your own take on this because despite all the disappointment i had with CP77, the story is obsessing me and the more i think about it the more i realize despite all its shortcoming it's a brilliant piece of writing.

edit/addendum - There is a whole lot to unpack about all the elements you find throughout the game, who is which Tarot card, why V is the Fool, why Rogue, Johnny and Smasher are Gods and what is the Afterlife bar if not the Pantheon, why Arasaka are the mortals who defied the Gods, etc, but it'd take a whole lot more to dig into.
Post automatically merged:

Not sure anyone's really interesting in this discussion, but in case some of you are, i would highly recommend reading through this reddit analysis and comments by u/Sihplak

As well as this reddit post by myself and the comments where u/GVArcian helped reconcile V's "Ship of Theseus" problem to a close in my opinion, with their valuable input

Yea first of all the Sphinx breed did not originate from ancient Egypt, it originated in Canada. They could have just presented an Egyptian Mau or Abyssinian cat. I think those breeds were around in ancient Egypt. But seriously how is it that you don't see any cats and the one time you see a cat it's a sphinx breed? I mean the breed is not known for being able to survive in the street... I mean honestly if I found a random cat it would most likely be a tabby, literally 80% of all cats look like that. In the real world sphinx cat is rare as hen's teeth, and expensive too.
 
Before I wanna give my thoughts, here is the accurate explanation video on the technicality & lore of SOULKILLER, THE RELIC, & MIKOSHI:


Ok, now unto my thoughts.

First, The biggest reveal that EXCLUSIVE to The Devil Ending is Relic tech can only work if the host mind/body & the transferred construct (relic) MUST HAVE a genetic compatibility to be working as intended. Yep ...
This reveal strongly suggested that V & Johnny have strong genetic compatibility AKA related to a direct family line. The coincidence of V circumstances is the perfect answer, perfect miracle that Hanako have been looking for all this years on developing The Relic tech. She made the best "solution" to the Arasaka internal conflict by transferring Saburo's construct into her own brother Yorinobu. Thematically this is the perfect most sinister of way preserving Arasaka's reign, Saburo has indeed step into godhood level ala Cyberpunk.

Now into the themes of Cats & Pyramids ....

CAT SYMBOLISM in Cyberpunk 2077
+ Cats in 2077. Based on lore, cats are one of the rarest animals that still able to endure the harsh climates in this world on their own. In this sense, cats represent the humanity itself. the humanity that trying to endure & survive in this post apocalyptic dystopian world of CP2020s.

+ Viktor V clinic's cat AKA Nibbles. One of the mysterious cat appearances throughout Night City & the game. This cat is still the same models as the rest of the cats scenes. Another actual real cat, possibly the same cat that V can pet & bring it to the apartment room. It's Nibbles. V first encounter of Nibbles was exactly before the pickup & heist mission. It's the start of everything, including bringing the importance of Viktor's clinic throughout the main story. Nibbles also have another nick name, Mr. Brightman. Brightman could also mean a bright-man: an enlighten man. So it's very possible that Nibbles represent a witness to player/V enlightenment to the whole story. A winding journey to a higher state of being, to "The World" of endless possibilities.
interestingly, Nibbles was adopted first by Jackie & Misty. This evidence can be found by dialogues outside Viktor's clinic a second time after V leaves Misty's rooftop, before embarking on their final mission. If V pets the cat, Misty will mention that its name is Mr Brightman, and will say "We found the poor guy in the trash behind the clinic. I think he misses Jackie".
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Nibbles

+ Bakeneko (Takemura's balcony scene). Bakeneko is arguably one of the very first thing the game trying to emphasize a deeper meaning to cat scenes. Bakeneko is "yokai" cat, a supernatural cat that represent misfortune & but also a powerful being that could bring dead ones back to life. From this theme alone, it already represent strong connection with the afterlife, Arasaka, mikoshi, & the sinister story in the devil ending. This scene also straight up showed actual cat beside Johnny, then proceed with Johnny falling from a balcony while the cat follow too (falling too). It as indeed rather mystical & a wonder how could the cat (possibly Nibbles) seems to know Johnny exist (like a ghost) & if the cat actually survive the fall.
http://yokai.com/bakeneko/

+ The Fool (& the cat). This is based on the tarot card of "the fool." the fool represent you/me/player/V/everyone. Each step he takes on his journey feels like stepping into a brave new world. Ultimately, the journey will change the fool. But as the card shows, he's a trustworthy lad whose tireless hope drives him toward his goal. Once again this alluded to the "Takemura balcony scene" where Johnny basically taking a leap/fall, followed by the cat, a total representative image of The Fool card.
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Tarot_Cards#The_Fool

+ The Glitch (cat) in the matrix. This cat scene definitely a direct nod to the glitch "Deja Vu" scene from The Matrix movie. The cats appeared in the stairs before player/V get to the rooftop to enter Mikoshi. A sign for player/V finally entered a "altered" higher place of state, a digitized state, the mikoshi's state. So yeah, this very moment is very likely where Alt-ter Cunningham "soulkilled" V & made V into a construct being. So on the contrary to your final statement, I think it's factually right that Alt-ter Cunningham basically killed V & copy V mind as a construct, within that 75% "soul" extraction. V is technically died two times already by reaching this point to enter Mikoshi.
https://matrix.fandom.com/wiki/Déjà_vu

+ The Porcelain Lucky Cat AKA Maneki-neko. Maneki-neko or the beckoning cat is a common Japanese figurine which is often believed to bring good luck to the owner. This figurined are littered everywhere in NC, particularity places that directly involved as a setting for the story. V's apartment room also have maneki-neko. This is likely represent the chances & possibility in life of fortune in each one of us. THE SOLO OF FORTUNE journey for V. Which might be also represent as the witness for V's journey/path to become NC legend (one of the endings).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneki-neko


+ The Sphynx Cat (Nibbles & etc). While not exactly a cat originated from "Egypt" or any kind of Egyptian mythos, the name of the breed itself "Sphynx" has always been a direct references to "Sphinx" from Egyptian & Greek mythos. Sphinx is a mythical creature with the head of a human, a falcon, a cat, or a sheep and the body of a lion with the wings of an eagle. A "chimera" of the scientific etymology. Sphinx themes also being reference in this game via literature, The Odyssey poem shard was existed/found in V's Lab "rat" room (Where's My mind) & V's mansion (Path of Glory). I have not able to decipher the poem that Alt narrated in the bridge toward Mikoshi pyramid, but it is very likely to have a deeper meaning toward all of this. the composite design of chimera-ism mystical creatures are not exclusive to Ancient Greek & Egyptian mythos, but also in Asia particualrly in hinduism & Buddhism in South-east Asia. This is what I think a pattern of meanings for The Sphinx, as a "apotropaic" purpose. a gatekeepers & protectors that purified the souls from misfortune & etc, before entering "Mikoshi." The first step to the enlightnment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphynx_cat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odyssey
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/The_Odyssey


MIKOSHI & PYRAMID SYMBOLISM in Cyberpunk 2077

+ Mikoshi: in Shintoism. Mikoshi is a sacred religious palanquin (also translated as portable Shinto shrine). Shinto followers believe that it serves as the vehicle to transport a deity in Japan while moving between main shrine and temporary shrine during a festival or when moving to a new shrine. In this very etymology, it represent housing structure that store personalities akin to "deity" is very much a fitting name for Saburo Arasaka, as he considered himself a deity, achieving godhood. So it's very likely Mikoshi one true purpose has always been for Saburo to ascend to immortality, playing god upon earth. For something that supposed to be pure, it is being tainted by corruption of Arasaka, making it as the "prison of souls" & the ultimate weapon in Cyberpunk world. This very tainted religious design could very much be similar to the inverted cross symbolism. In which I think why Alt- Cunningham also just straight up destroyed & remaking Mikoshi into her own preferable image in the ending AKA a pyramid design ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoshi
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Mikoshi

+ Mikoshi 2.0 AKA The Pyramid of Souls. Pyramids were built for religious purposes. Many civilizations, particularly the Egyptians were believe in an "afterlife." They believed that a second self called the ka lived within every human being. When the physical body expired, the ka enjoyed eternal life. Those fortunate enough to pass the test of Osiris wanted to be comfortable in their lives beyond earth. In this very case, it could be said the pyramid design is a stairway to The Final Judgement of Souls. Both player/V & Johnny are in the final path of renewel, as their souls being judge by tested by their own accords. It's a state of resurrection & liberation. This is why the pyramid have a "mortal well" & the bridge of souls. A mortal well, where the construct being resurrected, send back into the body & The bridge of souls, where the construct cut itself from mortal coil, joining the cyberspace. A Cyberspace that could be a heaven or hell or an illusions of both in itself ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid
https://www.ushistory.org/civ/3e.asp
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Tarot_Cards#Judgement

So that's basically it. Also, I wanna put this on my own thread & mentioned your thread too if that's okay.
 
Muscarine, if you find the time...

This is mind blowing thank you, i'm keeping your pointers in mind when i'll get enough time to jump back into it, unfortunately i don't for at least a few months

So that's basically it. Also, I wanna put this on my own thread & mentioned your thread too if that's okay.

I think we agree on most points, most of what you write about i think i went over in my posts

A couple things :

- I didn't imply the Sphynx were originated from Egypt, i only said they're a very obvious Sphinx "pun"

- I would strongly suggest you dig deeper in the Psychopomps direction, from all i collected i don't believe there's a dichotomy to be made between the different Sphynx you meet at different points. Instead it's a matter of culture perspective, what's a yōkai in Takemura's eyes (Shinto) would be something else entirely for a bhikṣu
A lot of the overarching narrative is spent on confronting diverse cultures for what difference they have, through the religious lens but not only
But this isn't done to say who's right or wrong, in fact i would call the result much closer to existential nihilism than anything else
The overarching narrative could be summed up as, without purpose there is no existence, i.e. without that, V might as well be dead (that's for everyone who thinks V always dies at the end, she really doesn't)
Many major or minor characters you meet throughout the game have a foot into that, Jackie, Dex, Evelyn, Judy, Panam, Kerry, River, Oda, Takemura, Hanako, very different people with very different life philosophies yet all drawn to purpose like insects to a bright light
Johnny's redemption arc is him finding a new purpose
V's redemption arc is for example abandonning her dellusions and find meaning to her existence (in the Star ending)
From what perspective you take on this endeavour is up to you, which is why they tried to create a parallel between cultures seemingly incompatible on a first hand basis, i.e. the bird, the cat and the cow

- Don't forget relic 2.0 is a unique, single prototype, so the genetic compatibility between V/Johnny is irrelevant, this is precisely why V's life is threatened because Relic 2.0 bypasses the incompatibility by rewriting the host

One last point, V's journey is as much if not more a figurative one than a literal one
Connecting to Mikoshi, i.e. coming into direct contact with an actual God but from an AI standpoint, whether it ultimately results in V's death or not, isn't all that important
There is a continuity problematic indeed, but in the global picture this is simply a story of reincarnation, except using more pragmatic means than religion, where you stand on the matter is foreshadowed by the very first talk show you get to witness after the Dorcet gig when taking the elevator to your appartmeent (Lee or Colver) and the game constantly asks you : where do you stand on this ?

Arasaka, the gods angering Tower of Babel is the Lee side, for example, and it's important to stop looking at them as the villains, they emphasize at humans being their own gods, creating their own immortality through forbidden "heretic" technology > Devil ending, see Satan

Alt is a man made god, an AI, and literal Deus Ex Machina both in terms of what she is and in terms of Story telling
Immortality (V) and reincarnation (Johnny) through the transhumanist mean > Temperance ending

The Afterlife, like Rogue, Johnny and Nix (... Nyx) garded by the cerberus Emmerick at the door; are the traditional gods of NC as a Garden of Eden (see Empress card) and V eventually becoming one of them > Colver, Sun ending

Judy, Panam and the Nomads are the refusal of all this, damned pariahs cast out of the paradise in an endless batlle against Wraiths, who refuse the illusion of the so called paradise, both literally and figuratively blowing the gates of Tartarus/Elysium (NC being both) accept mortality, refuse the gods altogether, basically the existential nihilism decision
I didn't go over the Basilisk, but know that this mythology creature is described as the King of Snakes, which should be enough to draw a conclusion regarding snakes and the Garden of Eden - another point to add to the V as Eve theory
> Star ending

No matter which one you think fits your personnal philosophy the best (and without going through narrative design issues), the game asks you what's the meaning of life using V as a vessel, what ending do you think will lead to reincarnation and redemption
It's just not literal, and this is why we get Misty handholding us, as players, into reading between the lines

Unfortunately a lot of discussions about the game's narrative stay on surface, literal level so that got lost to a lot of people
 
This is mind blowing thank you, i'm keeping your pointers in mind when i'll get enough time to jump back into it, unfortunately i don't for at least a few months



I think we agree on most points, most of what you write about i think i went over in my posts

A couple things :

- I didn't imply the Sphynx were originated from Egypt, i only said they're a very obvious Sphinx "pun"

- I would strongly suggest you dig deeper in the Psychopomps direction, from all i collected i don't believe there's a dichotomy to be made between the different Sphynx you meet at different points. Instead it's a matter of culture perspective, what's a yōkai in Takemura's eyes (Shinto) would be something else entirely for a bhikṣu
A lot of the overarching narrative is spent on confronting diverse cultures for what difference they have, through the religious lens but not only
But this isn't done to say who's right or wrong, in fact i would call the result much closer to existential nihilism than anything else
The overarching narrative could be summed up as, without purpose there is no existence, i.e. without that, V might as well be dead (that's for everyone who thinks V always dies at the end, she really doesn't)
Many major or minor characters you meet throughout the game have a foot into that, Jackie, Dex, Evelyn, Judy, Panam, Kerry, River, Oda, Takemura, Hanako, very different people with very different life philosophies yet all drawn to purpose like insects to a bright light
Johnny's redemption arc is him finding a new purpose
V's redemption arc is for example abandonning her dellusions and find meaning to her existence (in the Star ending)
From what perspective you take on this endeavour is up to you, which is why they tried to create a parallel between cultures seemingly incompatible on a first hand basis, i.e. the bird, the cat and the cow

- Don't forget relic 2.0 is a unique, single prototype, so the genetic compatibility between V/Johnny is irrelevant, this is precisely why V's life is threatened because Relic 2.0 bypasses the incompatibility by rewriting the host

One last point, V's journey is as much if not more a figurative one than a literal one
Connecting to Mikoshi, i.e. coming into direct contact with an actual God but from an AI standpoint, whether it ultimately results in V's death or not, isn't all that important
There is a continuity problematic indeed, but in the global picture this is simply a story of reincarnation, except using more pragmatic means than religion, where you stand on the matter is foreshadowed by the very first talk show you get to witness after the Dorcet gig when taking the elevator to your appartmeent (Lee or Colver) and the game constantly asks you : where do you stand on this ?

Arasaka, the gods angering Tower of Babel is the Lee side, for example, and it's important to stop looking at them as the villains, they emphasize at humans being their own gods, creating their own immortality through forbidden "heretic" technology > Devil ending, see Satan

Alt is a man made god, an AI, and literal Deus Ex Machina both in terms of what she is and in terms of Story telling
Immortality (V) and reincarnation (Johnny) through the transhumanist mean > Temperance ending

The Afterlife, like Rogue, Johnny and Nix (... Nyx) garded by the cerberus Emmerick at the door; are the traditional gods of NC as a Garden of Eden (see Empress card) and V eventually becoming one of them > Colver, Sun ending

Judy, Panam and the Nomads are the refusal of all this, damned pariahs cast out of the paradise in an endless batlle against Wraiths, who refuse the illusion of the so called paradise, both literally and figuratively blowing the gates of Tartarus/Elysium (NC being both) accept mortality, refuse the gods altogether, basically the existential nihilism decision
I didn't go over the Basilisk, but know that this mythology creature is described as the King of Snakes, which should be enough to draw a conclusion regarding snakes and the Garden of Eden - another point to add to the V as Eve theory
> Star ending

No matter which one you think fits your personnal philosophy the best (and without going through narrative design issues), the game asks you what's the meaning of life using V as a vessel, what ending do you think will lead to reincarnation and redemption
It's just not literal, and this is why we get Misty handholding us, as players, into reading between the lines

Unfortunately a lot of discussions about the game's narrative stay on surface, literal level so that got lost to a lot of people

Well in regards to the existential nihilism and even Paradise, it's a very western philosophical view on a game which uses quite a lot of buddhism, while leading up towards any decision.

As one example to add to how different lenses:
When you watch again how the two monks, you can save, talk about Arasaka and the Engrams, you realize Arasaka and the Engrams/Mikoshi go quite a bit against the acceptance of the everchanging nature of existence.
 
From what perspective you take on this endeavour is up to you, which is why they tried to create a parallel between cultures seemingly incompatible on a first hand basis, i.e. the bird, the cat and the cow

- Don't forget relic 2.0 is a unique, single prototype, so the genetic compatibility between V/Johnny is irrelevant, this is precisely why V's life is threatened because Relic 2.0 bypasses the incompatibility by rewriting the host

Unfortunately a lot of discussions about the game's narrative stay on surface, literal level so that got lost to a lot of people

+ This pattern of Bird, Cat, & Cattle actually even more prevalent with the evidence of actual models of a swallow bird, lucky cat, & wooden cattle/ox in one place. A balcony that you can find in the "Play It Safe" mission location, as they watch the parade. Bear in mind that most birds in this world are extinct & this bird model is the only one that I could find to be exist in the game. Here is the footage:


It could also be argue that this particular arrangement models is also an easter egg to the Witcher series, because:
- Swallow bird: represent Ciri, the "Zireael" of the world.
- The Lucky cat: also represent Ciri, as she use a Cat School medallion AKA her own personal lucky cat charm.
- The Ox: represent the strength, leadership, sacrifice, & tenacity. Basically about the royalty & the powerful elder blood within her. She also have her own ultimate task that required immense sacrifice as she is the lady of space & time.

+ Relic 2.0 upgrade was the relic can work independently, it doesn't mean it will work on actual human body host successfully. In the bigger scheme, relic 2.0 is not unique, well "not yet" until V & Johnny come into place. The Relic 2.0 is still unable to fully possessed a "living" host until V & Johnny case happened. Every experiments beforehand resulted in total failure with the host body did not survived the overtakes. This is what I think you get the timeline wrong. Only then the reveal about the requirement of "strong genetic compatibility" from V & Johnny that this project became a success ergo the "Devil Ending." This is why Saburo is the very first one that use the relic 2.0 successfully via possessing his own son, Yorinobu, as he made a speech on relic 2.0 product launch too public. If player go with "Sun Ending," the relic project "Secure Your Soul" basically halted, a total massive failure & Arasaka is in shambles. It could also mean Hanako is MIA & nobody can figured out how to make Relic 2.0 working AKA Saburo still trapped as an engram. All the "resources" for the program lost mean Mikoshi is gone or completely replaced as Alt-ter Cunningham's Pyramid of Souls. Again, the key to the "genetic compatibility requirement" reveal is on whether V being fully examined by Hellman & Hanako or not (AKA Devil Ending). Here the bit that I am talking about:


+ Is Alt-ter AI a goddess? In a certain perspectives, yes. But in the spiritual sense, she definitely not 'cause there is no "god in the machine" ... only something else. I am fairly certain that every players expected (just like V) that it will solve everything in the end, but it did not. Just remember ALT-TER DID NOT RESOLVE THE MAIN PROBLEM, V is still dying if V back into the host body again, instead of Johnny. Meanwhile, a reminder that Alt-ter actually devoured (assimilated) all of the personality engrams inside Mikoshi. She became the most powerful being (of information) in the world. If anything Alt-ter Cunningham might be even more dangerous than Arasaka in the end, especially when it comes to humanity perspectives.

Good & bad endings in the game are relative in certain POVs, especially where life path & philosophies being considered. I think all the endings can be summarized with V & Johnny's dialogues:

V: guess I meant, I dunno... A happier ending... For everyone involved.
Johnny: Here, for folks like us?? Wrong city, wrong people.

And, remember... It's not the end of everything, 'cause a thing of beauty will "never fade away"
 
I talked about the 3 animals previously

I don't think that's a Witcher reference

Feel free to read my previous posts because i went over most of this already and we're going in circles
I can only emphasise on the importance to make the distinction between figurative and literal, if we're talking strictly literal of course most of what i'm going on about is pointless

In the literal sense, of course, Alt or Rogue or Johnny aren't gods
But that's not what i'm focusing on

The point of this thread is to show there are multiple layers of reading, deliberately done so simply considering the amount of cues left around
I know a lot of people are sceptical in that respect, but the sheer quantity of symbols should convince anyone it's not just serendipity
Whether my theories are correct or not, that's a whole other stretch, probably most of it is reaching or incorrect

But i'd like people to get deeper than surface level, it's rare enough to play games with a similar depth
I understand that CDPR wanted to tell this story so badly they ended up railroading, crippling the player narrative and agency, but that's what we have and it's still an amazingly rich story, RPG designs notwithstanding

In any case, there's already a massive thread where people talk a lot more in depth and with better knowledge than i do about the literal meaning of CP77, i just wanted this thread to focus on the figurative, the abstract because it's there and seemingly very few people pay attention, which is like eating only half the cake
 
I talked about the 3 animals previously

I don't think that's a Witcher reference

Feel free to read my previous posts because i went over most of this already and we're going in circles
I can only emphasise on the importance to make the distinction between figurative and literal, if we're talking strictly literal of course most of what i'm going on about is pointless

In the literal sense, of course, Alt or Rogue or Johnny aren't gods
But that's not what i'm focusing on

The point of this thread is to show there are multiple layers of reading, deliberately done so simply considering the amount of cues left around
I know a lot of people are sceptical in that respect, but the sheer quantity of symbols should convince anyone it's not just serendipity
Whether my theories are correct or not, that's a whole other stretch, probably most of it is reaching or incorrect

But i'd like people to get deeper than surface level, it's rare enough to play games with a similar depth
I understand that CDPR wanted to tell this story so badly they ended up railroading, crippling the player narrative and agency, but that's what we have and it's still an amazingly rich story, RPG designs notwithstanding

In any case, there's already a massive thread where people talk a lot more in depth and with better knowledge than i do about the literal meaning of CP77, i just wanted this thread to focus on the figurative, the abstract because it's there and seemingly very few people pay attention, which is like eating only half the cake

For me it would be no question if it's serendipity or not.
The question for me would if someone was shopping around on wikipedia and throwing those thins like mud at the wall looking what would stuck to it... devoid of actual finesse - so to say.

Gotta repeat again - one might question if the focus on Samurai is also intend to direct towards the idea of Bushido, and it's view on death. But such is somewhat more unlikely, seeing how Samurai with Silverhand long existed before the game.

You could make an interesting analysis by the way of how during the heist the protagonist hide.
Behind the scenes unseen, unable to actually affect the mighty and powerful, cardoned off by a glass wall. In the tightest possible place, nearly as tight as a grave... But there's no well established symbology in it.
 
Hoo boy... may i remark, that there is also a heavy gnostic aspect to the whole story (words and symbols throughout the game give clues about that :) ) ... and don t dismiss the VB and their beliefs :)

Also may i add something... the happenings and motivations and possible implications of CP 2077, are much more easily understood or make sense lore-wise, once you read a little into the original tabletop s background lore,... i did that and a lot of things went from " Huh ???"-status to "Oooh!!!"-status

Without diving into CP2020 s lore at least a little, everything in CP2077 will be a big question mark or based on false conclusions... it s worth getting accustomed with the already existing and built world of CP2020, since it ties directly into CP2077
 
The best ending would be if V and Johnny, agreed to let Takemura handle the Arasakas on his own, and Takemura agreed to look away while V and Johnny destroyed Mikoshi to get revenge for Alt and Jackie. I think he would be willing to do that, since Takemura really just wants to get revenge with Hanako. He obviously doesn't care about the collateral damage since in the other ending he is literally joining you in storming Arasaka tower. I can't believe this wasn't the ending in the game. It pisses me off.
That's because they didn't want to write branching points. The endings have to ignore your LP's. Because your suggestions of a power vacuum of Arasaka would be filled by a Corpo V doing a hostile takeover of the company. With the help of Kerry. For example. Second, Takamura can't impact the ending. Since Hellman replaces him for the Hanako ending. If you kill Takemura. So choices can't actually matter. If they don't want to do the work.
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Without diving into CP2020 s lore at least a little, everything in CP2077 will be a big question mark or based on false conclusions... it s worth getting accustomed with the already existing and built world of CP2020, since it ties directly into CP2077
This is also an example of 2077 not covering enough to avoid confusing people. Why does Harry Potter care about Dobey so much. DON'T ASK THAT QUESTION! READ THE BOOK. You're a bad writer if you force a user to read a book to fill in holes that the script should be doing.
 
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