Basically, I was thinking about the theme of the game and how the endings reflected them so I decided to make a thread to discuss them:
One thing I felt the game did very well is the fact that it establishes the central themes pretty well in the fact that V is suffering Survivor's Guilt for not saving Jackie during the mission. If Jackie hadn't given V the chip then Jackie would have gone back to life and you'd be dead. The game pretty much hits you home with many missions related to death and the fact that your closest friends are people who have suffered tremendous losses or are guilty themselves.
Judy's quest is basically you trying to make up for losing Jackie by saving Evelyn. You fail and then she has to do the same thing you do in adjust to the fact that Jackie's death/Evelyn's death was meaningless and you have to make it mean something. Judy will fail in her quest and it depresses her even further. I barely knew Evelyn but my V is doing it for Judy and also because it allows him to vent some of his anger regarding Jackie's death.
All the while, Johnny is slipping into Jackie's role as V's closest and best friend. I'm trying to settle a lot of Johnny's old unfunished business with Rogue and Kerry in order to make things right. However, they CANT be made right and that's an interesting lesson to take from all this. That no matter what you do, things are busted and broken and you have to figure out what you do wiht what your time is left.
Multiple quests also cause you to reflect on death and what it means to face it. "Sinnerman" is a very good one because it is about you dealing with a man who wants to make his imminent death mean something. The thing is that his death is going to happen no matter what and what he's doing may be meaningless or even blasphemous but you get to be his Johnny because you're the only companion he has until his death. River's quest is about the fact that he failed to save his parents as a child and the fact he has a chance to redeem himself by saving his nephew. It is the one unambiguous quest to do GOOD that V can do and possibly wipe the soot off their soul.
Its kind of funny that Goro's quest also shows you that maybe honor and dignity are all in your head too. Goro is a guy who wants to redeem his honor by avenging Saboru Arasaka. However, Saburo Arasaka was an evil pile of shit and Arasaka is like the Nazi party in the setting (or at least a reborn Imperial Japan). He's deeply up his own ass with his belief what he's doing is good but he's also someone who believes that dying for his cause is worth it. What, exactly, does V do that is worth dying for? What can he do in the next few weeks he has left? The happiest ending Goro can have is dying trying to save Hanako and by saving him, ironically, you just doom him to become a tool for evil or disappointment when you stop Hanako's plan.
One of the actual most important bits of the ending is that Johnny asks you, "It's not easy which friend you're going to get killed" because that's exactly what happened to him 50 years. He managed to blow up Arasaka Tower but he got Santiago killed and who knows how many other people aside from himself all to try to save Alt Cunningham. In all the endings but one, you just add more to the body count.
The thing, plenty of the people fighting alongside you have their own shit they feel they need to redeem themselves for. Rogue hates herself for making a deal with the Corps (Grayson, Adam Smasher) and is suicidal herself. You can redeem her by letting her sacrifice herself to hurt Adam Smasher. Saul feels like he failed the Aldecados by allying with the Corpos and getting himself captured with the Raffen Shiv bearing down their necks. He knows that Panam is a better and more capable leader and hates himself for it. He too is willing to go down in the blaze of glory.
But is it right to let them kill themselves to save yourself? Even the endings where you live you either do so by leaving Night City to form a life with the Nomads or you do by becoming an immortal demon. You might live as a lone legend but even then, that might just be going on a last dance to take down a den of the worst rich people in the setting. You sacrifice others so that you may live.
In the end, my V had the opportunity to save Johnny's life by sacrificing their own. He could give up his body to Johnny and thus redeem himself for failing Jackie. No, I failed to save Jackie. I failed to save Evelyn (for Judy). BUT I WILL SAVE JOHNNY. The funny thing about that ending is that JOHNNY FEELS THE EXACT SAME WAY ABOUT YOU. He failed to save Alt Cunningham, GOT HER KILLED in fact, and that guilt has been eating him for 50 years in Mikoshi.
Johnny never once wants to take your body because he doesn't want to live. It was a suicide mission to blow up Arasaka 50 years ago because he hates himself and hates that he survived when Alt died.
One of you will find redemption, one of you will find life.
So what's your take on the game's ending and the theme of the quests to it?
One thing I felt the game did very well is the fact that it establishes the central themes pretty well in the fact that V is suffering Survivor's Guilt for not saving Jackie during the mission. If Jackie hadn't given V the chip then Jackie would have gone back to life and you'd be dead. The game pretty much hits you home with many missions related to death and the fact that your closest friends are people who have suffered tremendous losses or are guilty themselves.
Judy's quest is basically you trying to make up for losing Jackie by saving Evelyn. You fail and then she has to do the same thing you do in adjust to the fact that Jackie's death/Evelyn's death was meaningless and you have to make it mean something. Judy will fail in her quest and it depresses her even further. I barely knew Evelyn but my V is doing it for Judy and also because it allows him to vent some of his anger regarding Jackie's death.
All the while, Johnny is slipping into Jackie's role as V's closest and best friend. I'm trying to settle a lot of Johnny's old unfunished business with Rogue and Kerry in order to make things right. However, they CANT be made right and that's an interesting lesson to take from all this. That no matter what you do, things are busted and broken and you have to figure out what you do wiht what your time is left.
Multiple quests also cause you to reflect on death and what it means to face it. "Sinnerman" is a very good one because it is about you dealing with a man who wants to make his imminent death mean something. The thing is that his death is going to happen no matter what and what he's doing may be meaningless or even blasphemous but you get to be his Johnny because you're the only companion he has until his death. River's quest is about the fact that he failed to save his parents as a child and the fact he has a chance to redeem himself by saving his nephew. It is the one unambiguous quest to do GOOD that V can do and possibly wipe the soot off their soul.
Its kind of funny that Goro's quest also shows you that maybe honor and dignity are all in your head too. Goro is a guy who wants to redeem his honor by avenging Saboru Arasaka. However, Saburo Arasaka was an evil pile of shit and Arasaka is like the Nazi party in the setting (or at least a reborn Imperial Japan). He's deeply up his own ass with his belief what he's doing is good but he's also someone who believes that dying for his cause is worth it. What, exactly, does V do that is worth dying for? What can he do in the next few weeks he has left? The happiest ending Goro can have is dying trying to save Hanako and by saving him, ironically, you just doom him to become a tool for evil or disappointment when you stop Hanako's plan.
One of the actual most important bits of the ending is that Johnny asks you, "It's not easy which friend you're going to get killed" because that's exactly what happened to him 50 years. He managed to blow up Arasaka Tower but he got Santiago killed and who knows how many other people aside from himself all to try to save Alt Cunningham. In all the endings but one, you just add more to the body count.
The thing, plenty of the people fighting alongside you have their own shit they feel they need to redeem themselves for. Rogue hates herself for making a deal with the Corps (Grayson, Adam Smasher) and is suicidal herself. You can redeem her by letting her sacrifice herself to hurt Adam Smasher. Saul feels like he failed the Aldecados by allying with the Corpos and getting himself captured with the Raffen Shiv bearing down their necks. He knows that Panam is a better and more capable leader and hates himself for it. He too is willing to go down in the blaze of glory.
But is it right to let them kill themselves to save yourself? Even the endings where you live you either do so by leaving Night City to form a life with the Nomads or you do by becoming an immortal demon. You might live as a lone legend but even then, that might just be going on a last dance to take down a den of the worst rich people in the setting. You sacrifice others so that you may live.
In the end, my V had the opportunity to save Johnny's life by sacrificing their own. He could give up his body to Johnny and thus redeem himself for failing Jackie. No, I failed to save Jackie. I failed to save Evelyn (for Judy). BUT I WILL SAVE JOHNNY. The funny thing about that ending is that JOHNNY FEELS THE EXACT SAME WAY ABOUT YOU. He failed to save Alt Cunningham, GOT HER KILLED in fact, and that guilt has been eating him for 50 years in Mikoshi.
Johnny never once wants to take your body because he doesn't want to live. It was a suicide mission to blow up Arasaka 50 years ago because he hates himself and hates that he survived when Alt died.
One of you will find redemption, one of you will find life.
So what's your take on the game's ending and the theme of the quests to it?
