[SPOILERS] End-Game And Suspicions About The First DLC

[poldengonyboy]

Note: I am copying my response from the other thread. Feel like it's relevant here.

Here is my final take on the endings of the game and future pathways I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right or that you're wrong. I don't think there is a legitimate conclusive answer with the information we have.

Too many loose ends to draw a concrete conclusion
I think regardless of whether you think the ending is 'good' or 'bad', most of us can agree that there are far too many loose ends for it to be a satisfying conclusion to V's arc. Hence the discussion regarding post-game DLC. But we'll get to that later.

IMO CP2077 gives us a decent beginning, a strong middle and a strong 'pre-end' but right at the very end CDPR decides to introduce a lot of loose ends and unanswered questions. Here are just a few:

• What's the deal with the Crystal Palace and why is V being sent there?
• What is the heist in the Crystal Palace even about? What does V expect to gain from it? Why is Mr. Hands so elusive?
• Why are the Tarots so positive about V's future? Reducing it down to "false hope" seems like poor writing to me.
• If the Tarot cards are superstitious bunk then why have the developers invested so much time into it (placing them in the game world, giving tarots dedicated UI space in the menu etc).
• If the Tarot cards are superstitious bunk then why are they so accurate about everything? If there were errors here and there in Misty's predictions then yes you could disregard the meaning of the Tarots but 99% of the time they have had bullseye accuracy.
• And thus this is the problem with the Tarots, you might disagree with them as you would in the real world but given their accuracy it's hard to dismiss them in this game.
• If V is truly dead then why do the ending phone calls talk to him as if he is alive? CDPR could have added "in memory of V" in the end of the credits but they didn't. Why the intentional ambiguity?

There are so many more loose ends and ambiguous points I can bring up. I haven't even brought up the Nomads and their affiliations from the lore wiki for example.


LOTR Analogy
Imagine if the Lord of the Rings ended just as Gollum fell into the lava with the ring. What happens to Frodo and Sam? Are they left to die? We know in the LOTR universe that there are Eagles but will they even bother to rescue them? Who knows.
Ignoring the books imagine if Peter Jackson made a press statement at a later date and said "oh by the hobbits ended up surviving/dying".


Where does CDPR go from here?

1. CDPR releases a statement clarifying the fate of V.
   Opinion: If you need to release a press statement to clarify the fate of an important character then your writing team has failed. Hence I think this is unlikely. Say what you want about CDPR but they still have some talented writers (TW3 is proof enough).
2. Post-ending expansion
   Opinion: Probably the best path forward. Almost everyone wants to know what happens to V and from a business POV it makes sense. There are enough ways to weave the major endings together (even accounting for Arasaka).
3. No post ending expansion
   Opinion: Personally if ALL the expansions were exclusively midgame I would be livid. V's fate would be left up in the air for all eternity. Not very satisfying and hurts replay value. Having two mid-game expansions undermines the urgency of the relic.

Imagine spending 40 hours across two mid-game expansions while dealing with
View attachment 11125904


Closing Thoughts
For the love of god remember that this is all literally speculation. We CANNOT CONCLUDE that we are getting a post ending DLC but at the same time we CANNOT CONCLUDE that we are not getting a post ending DLC. Attempts to make concrete conclusions based on either are both reductive and disingenuous and hurt discussion. Until we get a roadmap or announcement it is up in the air!

Hope this made sense. Cheers for attending my TED talk.

Yes that makes perfect sense, honestly with the way Crystal palace is being teased SO heavily during the game It's hard for me to see it not being included in a DLC. Whether that DLC is post-game or mid-game obviously we don't know yet, but like you said leaving the endings open like that and then potentially later coming out with a press statement saying "oh btw V lived or V died" is lazy and usually a symptom of bad writing.

One thing I know and many of us know here is that CDPR have some of the best, if not, the best writers in the industry. I can't see them doing something like this unless it was absolutely intentional and they planned it from the get-go. What I mean by that is, I don't think we have to worry about CDPR not being able to figure out how to converge all the endings together. People on this thread have already come up with some pretty logical solutions to every ending except the suicide ending (for obvious reasons) so I'm sure if we can do it just being fans, their writers should have no problems.

I think one of the major complaints about this game so far that i've seen has been the pacing. Generally people think that the main story has a good pace if you straight shoot it, but where the pacing starts to get wonky is when you start to dive deep into the side content. Why is V doing all of this when he only has 2 weeks left to live I see a lot of people ask, and I think it's a valid question. Another complaint I see is that the story or stories (with romances specifically) are too short, this can easily be remedied in post-game DLC. With that being said hopefully CDPR is aware of this and delivers us a solid set in stone conclusion to this story, it would be great for their bank accounts and the fans would love it. It's honestly a win-win in my eyes so I'm excited to see if they pull through and listen to the people on this one!

 

[kjiandan]

Note: I am copying my response from the other thread. Feel like it's relevant here.

Here is my final take on the endings of the game and future pathways I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right or that you're wrong. I don't think there is a legitimate conclusive answer with the information we have.

Too many loose ends to draw a concrete conclusion
I think regardless of whether you think the ending is 'good' or 'bad', most of us can agree that there are far too many loose ends for it to be a satisfying conclusion to V's arc. Hence the discussion regarding post-game DLC. But we'll get to that later.

IMO CP2077 gives us a decent beginning, a strong middle and a strong 'pre-end' but right at the very end CDPR decides to introduce a lot of loose ends and unanswered questions. Here are just a few:

• What's the deal with the Crystal Palace and why is V being sent there?
• What is the heist in the Crystal Palace even about? What does V expect to gain from it? Why is Mr. Hands so elusive?
• Why are the Tarots so positive about V's future? Reducing it down to "false hope" seems like poor writing to me.
• If the Tarot cards are superstitious bunk then why have the developers invested so much time into it (placing them in the game world, giving tarots dedicated UI space in the menu etc).
• If the Tarot cards are superstitious bunk then why are they so accurate about everything? If there were errors here and there in Misty's predictions then yes you could disregard the meaning of the Tarots but 99% of the time they have had bullseye accuracy.
• And thus this is the problem with the Tarots, you might disagree with them as you would in the real world but given their accuracy it's hard to dismiss them in this game.
• If V is truly dead then why do the ending phone calls talk to him as if he is alive? CDPR could have added "in memory of V" in the end of the credits but they didn't. Why the intentional ambiguity?

There are so many more loose ends and ambiguous points I can bring up. I haven't even brought up the Nomads and their affiliations from the lore wiki for example.


LOTR Analogy
Imagine if the Lord of the Rings ended just as Gollum fell into the lava with the ring. What happens to Frodo and Sam? Are they left to die? We know in the LOTR universe that there are Eagles but will they even bother to rescue them? Who knows.
Ignoring the books imagine if Peter Jackson made a press statement at a later date and said "oh by the hobbits ended up surviving/dying".


Where does CDPR go from here?

1. CDPR releases a statement clarifying the fate of V.
   Opinion: If you need to release a press statement to clarify the fate of an important character then your writing team has failed. Hence I think this is unlikely. Say what you want about CDPR but they still have some talented writers (TW3 is proof enough).
2. Post-ending expansion
   Opinion: Probably the best path forward. Almost everyone wants to know what happens to V and from a business POV it makes sense. There are enough ways to weave the major endings together (even accounting for Arasaka).
3. No post ending expansion
   Opinion: Personally if ALL the expansions were exclusively midgame I would be livid. V's fate would be left up in the air for all eternity. Not very satisfying and hurts replay value. Having two mid-game expansions undermines the urgency of the relic.

Imagine spending 40 hours across two mid-game expansions while dealing with
View attachment 11125904


Closing Thoughts
For the love of god remember that this is all literally speculation. We CANNOT CONCLUDE that we are getting a post ending DLC but at the same time we CANNOT CONCLUDE that we are not getting a post ending DLC. Attempts to make concrete conclusions based on either are both reductive and disingenuous and hurt discussion. Until we get a roadmap or announcement it is up in the air!

Hope this made sense. Cheers for attending my TED talk.

To add to this, and the possibility of being livid without the continuation of V's story, look at it from a gameplay perspective - players have poured dozens of hours (some close to over 100 hours) into their V, by acquiring vehicles, cyberware, weapons, clothing, and character builds. CDPR would have to be ridiculously thick to drop V as a protagonist in upcoming story expansions, and I think the endings are intentionally left open-ended so the story can continue (or so I hope).

Keep in mind CDPR originally planned on revealing the DLC roadmap ahead of launch, so we know they have some idea of where the story is going/how it may continue.

Sadly, we'll have to wait until they reveal their roadmap and Season Pass before we can confirm or deny any of these theories. Fingers crossed, chooms.

 

[JubJub154]

I got a question for all of you, is there a copy of V's consciousness still in Mikoshi at the end of the game?

 

[Droladya]

However, you have to do additional content to get those endings, as these options are locked behind more effort put into the game.
That's why the arasaka ending is the low effort ending, because it literally takes less effort than the others to get them.

Maybe it's realy hard to understand so I explain it again.
There is no story force to push the ending coming, such as Saburo revive and try to kill V ( rude example, just catch the point ).
Story end because the sword of Damocles falls, which make every way to solve problem have the same story weight.
Arasaka is just one of them, CDPR can make Rouge ending to the main story, and lock the arasaka ending, which force you to finish the story line of Goro to unlock it.
So they just chose arasaka ending as the main story, they chose it, stamp it, a title, nothing more.
That's why you can't say it's a low effort ending, just change the title, every non-secret ending will be the low effort ending, especially no ending are marked positive.

And maybe I have to say it again and again, the truth is, story shouldn't end after the meeting with Hanako.
It realy make the whole story split, It's may hard to explain, look the story structure

Start —— Stole the Relic
Incentive events —— Mission failed, Everyone die and V got the chip actually a bomb
Story line spread —— Find Hellman ( Rouge and Panam and Aldecaldos ), Find Evelyn ( Voodoo Boys and Alt ), Find Hanako ( Arasaka )
Ending

The story is just spread, which cause every story line to be parallel lines. They are not entangled together and merge a power to lead the ending.
It looks like, a web, it should be a web, at least spindle, but cut it half, then every line mess and independent.

 

[Vit_o_matic]

I got a question for all of you, is there a copy of V's consciousness still in Mikoshi at the end of the game?

Only if you choose the Arasaka ending (sign a contract with them). In other cases, a copy of V ends up in cyberspace or in the body (by the way, having chosen Arasaka ending, but rejecting their offer, V remains the original, because Soulkiller is not used (after all, they are just performing a surgical operation)). In non-Arasaka endings, Alt seems to destroy Mikoshi and merges all engrams with her

 

[stndn]

Another great reddit post that shows how the major endings can be weaved into the Crystal Palace. Well worth a read.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/koxtfs

I think I need to compile all of these theories and build a megathread.

 

[Willowhugger]

If CD Projekt Red wants to hire me, here's my pitch for Cyberpunk 2080.

V wakes up in a Biotechnica laboratory and proceeds to escape the hospital he/she's imprisoned in and discovers they don't have any memory of the past three years. They are fully healed with no damage from Johnny Silverhand but their cyberware has all been ripped out. They proceed to head to Night City and discover that there has been several recent gang wars that have changed the power structure of the city. They must reconnect with their old friends.

And yes, it's just a nonshitty version of Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and Metal Gear V.

 

[Stanos91]

Another great reddit post that shows how the major endings can be weaved into the Crystal Palace. Well worth a read.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/koxtfs

I think I need to compile all of these theories and build a megathread.

I still think even option 2 and 3 can be continued. While Arasaka is certainly shady, V is a useful asset to them, who proved hir/her worth. Saved Hanako and gave Saburo the chance to return from death. Also defeated/killed Adam Smasher and one of the best merc in NC.
Staying in cyberspace with Alt is a bit harder, but imho Johnny likes V enough to try to save him/her. I mean he is the guy who attacked Arasak HQ twice for Alt.
My main point is, this is fiction at the end of the day. It is up to the writers where they want to go with the story.

 

[Solidus2kill]

The expansions will definitely be post-ending, change my mind.
It they don't so this game is dead for me, I'm not interested in have new cars or implants during mid game.
The whole johnny arc sounds like a "prologue" to another story, and we have all the hints:

-blackwall and alt for exemple
-crystal palace etc.

CDPR writers if you are reading this thread say something lol

 

[alexanderros]

Hey so I'm new to these forums and I don't know exactly if this is the right place to post this, but if it is I really want to hear all you thoughts on this, and any insights you might have!

So to start this off, this has heavy spoilers about multiple endings and romance options.

With that being said I have a couple what I think are pretty reasonable assumptions about what the first or at least one of the major expansion pack DLC's will be about. I know the game has only been out for 4 days so I recognize that there's no way to truly know, but based on some foreshadowing in the story and even some little easter eggs I think I have an Idea.

So I think one of the major DLC's will be about trying to save V's life again a second time. Once you finish the game, if you decide to let V live and let Johnny go with Alt, you learn that you only have 6 months to live. This happens regardless of who you decide to complete the last quest with. As long as you don't give the body to Johnny, Kill yourself, or Sell your soul you are stuck w 6 months left to live. We know that V obviously doesn't care when people tell them they're as good as dead, they've cheated death more than once at this point.

Now the reasons why I feel so strongly that this will be the DLC is because of a few subtle and maybe not so subtle hints the game gives you throughout, and especially near/at the end of the game.

Number 1. The ending with Panam and the Nomads. Whether you romance her or if you're a female and romance judy, you leave night city to go to Tucson, Arizona with the nomads. If you romanced Judy you bring her along with you. If you romanced Panam you just leave with her. (IDK about River and Kerry yet). In one of the last dialogue options you say to Panam you are going to figure out how to cure your sickness, and she says that the Aldecaldo's have people in Arizona that have helped their folks out of deep cesspits. Implying that you will be able to indeed find someone out there who can help you out. Obviously this could just be a little glimmer of hope for the player so that they can Imagine that their V doesn't actually die, But I'm gonna get to why I think it's more than that in a sec. Also before you get back in your body, Johnny tells you "Never stop fighting!" Meaning don't just lay down and die after 6 months, try to find a new cure.

Number 2. The ending with Johnny, where you take back your body from Johnny. Personally I took this path the first time, and having romanced Panam, you find her in the shower of your mansion that you now have. Again with 6 months left to live, She's mad that you're not coming with her to Arizona. Anyways y'all get into a little argument, and again there's an option where you can say that this is not the last time you will see each other. Also If you romanced River or Kerry, they show up in the mansion with you before you go to "Crystal Palace". Not sure about Judy on this one.

Finally Number 3. A bit less direct imo but it also still teases us that there will be post end game content in the DLC regarding this new health condition, and also maybe alluding that it will be in Arizona and have a lot to do with Panam and the Nomads. When you finish the game with the Nomads, at the very last scene before you drive off in the tank, you can pick up a whole legendary set-piece of armour in one of the lockers. The thing is, you can't even equip it, because the action is blocked at that point. Idk if it's just a bug at this point, but I don't really think it is, because why would they give you 3 amazing legendary tier pieces of armour right before the literal end of the game?

Another thing that is convincing is if you ever try to drive out of the map, in the badlands it says something like "Turn back, this area is not available... Yet..." Which obviously is pretty heavy foreshadowing that we will get an expansion outside of night city in the future.

The final piece of evidence is kind of small, but it's during Panam's last side quest. Right before you leave her at the new camp, you can say "Too bad this is our last time together" and she responds with, "who say's it has to be our last?". Again idk if this is alluding to the final mission with her, or if it's just some filler line, but after seeing all of this other evidence I feel like it might be a bit more than that.

Anyways, that's all I really got for now. Hope it wasn't too long. Let me know what your thoughts are, if you guys have anymore supporting my theory or evidence that this is absolutely not the case and I'm an idiot lol. I personally hope this is the case and I hope we go to Arizona with Panam, because I'm deeply in love with her and I feel as though we did not get enough content with her and our other romance options like Judy (Who would also be coming with us to Arizona if you romanced her). Only way I see this idea for the DLC being messed up is if you Sold your soul to Arisaka, or if you gave the body back to Johnny. But even with Johnny's story he leaves night city on a bus to who knows where.

TLDR: First or At least one of the major expansions is going to be about us trying to save our own lives again after the main game ending, by going to Arizona and looking for someone who has a cure with the Aldecaldos'.

I really hope we get DLC/Expansion based on space station. I want my System Shock dose and I think that might be much better story than what Cyberpunk Main story holds right now. Even though I came to like Johnny the story itself is weak. Why does Hanako die if she remains in the mansion? Small pieces like that don't make sense at all.

 

[bcraig6010]

The expansions will definitely be post-ending, change my mind.
It they don't so this game is dead for me, I'm not interested in have new cars or implants during mid game.
The whole johnny arc sounds like a "prologue" to another story, and we have all the hints:

-blackwall and alt for exemple
-crystal palace etc.

CDPR writers if you are reading this thread say something lol

I find your post fascinating.
I agree with the huge hints on AIs, ALT, Blackwall as numerous quests do point to other things going (mayor candidate, sandra part 2, etc..etc..)
BUT

If CDPR were to say - you know what - we told a complete story - we are happy and pleased with the game and story as is. We are going to instead work on mutiplayer and witcher 4
you would consider this game "dead to you"

Why? Because the endings are awful if that is where the story ends.
Main game was johnny's story with near zero player agency - and would be dead to you if it ends there or other stories of other people are told to flesh out the lore.

 

[DRaptor-1]

I find your post fascinating.
I agree with the huge hints on AIs, ALT, Blackwall as numerous quests do point to other things going (mayor candidate, sandra part 2, etc..etc..)
BUT

If CDPR were to say - you know what - we told a complete story - we are happy and pleased with the game and story as is. We are going to instead work on mutiplayer and witcher 4
you would consider this game "dead to you"

Why? Because the endings are awful if that is where the story ends.
Main game was johnny's story with near zero player agency - and would be dead to you if it ends there or other stories of other people are told to flesh out the lore.

Endings are not awful, are unfinished. Are open to more content. Otherwise they are not appropriate to a game like cyberpunk, that was announced in another way

 

[Maxisspl4774]

We are gonna see at least the same amount of expansions like the witcher 3 did. That means that we will get at least 1 small and 1 big expansion maybe more, they also said that expansions are gonna be released before the multiplayer

 

[Solidus2kill]

indeed, the endings are not rewarding, and the game has others problems lol (I found out now that blood pump does not work if you install cyberarms)

 

[bcraig6010]

Endings are not awful, are unfinished. Are open to more content. Otherwise they are not appropriate to a game like cyberpunk, that was announced in another way

Which was my point - if for some reason they stopped, or DLC dealt with other people - there would be a huge backlash as endings, in your words are "unfinished" despite the studio saying its a complete story

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

Endings are not awful, are unfinished. Are open to more content. Otherwise they are not appropriate to a game like cyberpunk, that was announced in another way

The endings are awful, because they wrote so many contradictions into the them that the suspension of disbelief breaks.

I mean there are so many smoking guns in this game, the battle of Gettysburg must have looked like a cold, breezy Sunday morning in comparison.

So many lose ends, so many hints, so much established technology that could help V surviventhe plot-cancer.

It's like with the fallout three ending. In this case, our supermutant friend is the relic technology and the established lore itself.
We have the blueprints and research documentation, we know excellent techies, we know an AI that is able to create engrams, being transfered to a relic. We could simply steal a new relic from arasaka or simply buy one with enough money from a corrupt arasaka employee (they are already selling the tech to rich people) or build one the the tech stolen from the arasaka tower.

We create an engram of our life self, chip in, flatline under controlled conditions at Vics and let the biochip do its work.

Problem solved.

Off course the writers did not think of this relatively easyand logical way out. Broken steel situation.

 

[DRaptor-1]

The endings are awful, because they wrote so many contradictions into the them that the suspension of disbelief breaks.

I mean there are so many smoking guns in this game, the battle of Gettysburg must have looked like a cold, breezy Sunday morning in comparison.

So many lose ends, so many hints, so much established technology that could help V surviventhe plot-cancer.

It's like with the fallout three ending. In this case, our supermutant friend is the relic technology and the established lore itself.
We have the blueprints and research documentation, we know excellent techies, we know an AI that is able to create engrams, being transfered to a relic. We could simply steal a new relic from arasaka or simply buy one with enough money from a corrupt arasaka employee (they are already selling the tech to rich people) or build one the the tech stolen from the arasaka tower.

We create an engram of our life self, chip in, flatline under controlled conditions at Vics and let the biochip do its work.

Problem solved.

Off course the writers did not think of this relatively easyand logical way out. Broken steel situation.

There arent contradictions if they expand the ending. (If they leave the game like it is now yes, i agree with you)

Just try to see the main story we had now as an introduction for the real story. Take this endings like diifferent starting points for the true story, not like real endings.
Maybe will not be like this, but there is an high chance for that to be real.

They can give us the answers we want, with a post ending DLC

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

There arent contradictions if they expand the ending. (If they leave the game like it is now yes, i agree with you)

Just try to see the main story we had now as an introduction for the real story. Take this endings like diifferent starting points for the true story, not like real endings.
Maybe will not be like this, but there is an high chance for that to be real.

They can give us the answers we want, with a post ending DLC

I want to but I am afraid that we will only get a setup for the ominous MP mode and some. Act 2 dlc where we can spend our money in a fancy casino.

 

[Solidus2kill]

lol have you seen the scrapped casino?

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

lol have you seen the scrapped casino?

Exactly... That's why I am concerned.