[SPOILERS] End-Game And Suspicions About The First DLC

[nadsh]

that's what also bugs me. All the so called choices come down to: Choose to continue the quest or basically abandon it so the questgiver dies or you are locked out of further quests. There are almost no quests where the quest branches into different directions of similar lenght (as was promised time and time again).

Bioware as an example again: The oh so reviled Dragon Age 2 (I love it). Focusing only on companion quests for this example(the other quest are similarly complex):
During the game can make decisions that make your companions either agree or disagree with you. Once you get a certain degree of like or dislike from them, this unlocks a companion quest. Your decisions in the companion quest influence their feelings for you again and influence how the next companion quest plays out. At no point in time are you locked out of the companion quests just because you disagreed wih them, instead you get different results and the characters start loving or hating you more. Completely different results depending how you play your character.
Something like this is what I expected from decisions in CP. Not just "antagonize questgiver -> cant do the rest of the quest chain".

I was thinking about that too. Some choices lock you out in DA2 as well (Isabela never comes back with the tome in Act 2 if she doesn't care about Hawke), but there are enough characters and different outcomes that you never feel like you're missing content.

 

[poldengonyboy]

All of those points are related to side missions. It still doesn't change the fact that the main story is linear and the outcome of the game stays the same regardless

Not true, Takemura is a main mission, and doing Panam and Johnny's personal quests dictate whether or not your get their endings to the main plot of the game, even more so with Johnny considering how you treat him through the whole game (main quests included) results in if you get the secret ending or not. Also fingers, one of the ripper docs you can get locked out of is the result of a choice in a main quest, and on-top of that, there's tons of ways to deal with both the voodoo boy's questline and the all-foods/maelstrom quest.

I mean there's literally 4 different outcomes to the main story in just the endings alone (really there's 7 different outcomes but I'm bunching all of the V lives for 6 months scenario together). I don't know how you can act like the outcome of the main story doesn't change and is completely void of choice.

 

[Guest 4519094]

you can still be friends with Judy even after giving clouds to Maiko
you can also still have diner with River's family and have a good time
drinking with him on top of that water tank, after telling him his past is too heavy.

in fact a couple of threads seem to be collecting very negative views and behaviours,
lots of misinformation and most often disinformation.

Quick reminder the first patch is now due in a couple days,
all the youtubers and twitter celebs who made bank on hating the game and it's fans
are getting desperate, apart from the couple who are disgusting enough to try to shame CDPR for patching the game ...

tldr: if you suspect someone is just here to fan some flames, just ignore them, their support will dry out in 4 days.

 

[Motsie]

Some choices are just between continuing a certain side quest or failing it completely. My problem with having long LI related quest chains is that if you act against the LIs for roleplaying reasons (Clouds needs strong leadership to resist the Tyger Claws, you don't feel like lecturing River on revenge after having just met him and so on) you're just locked out of the content, and with only 4 major characters it's kinda restricting.

Totally fair point. Part of this is due to the character's having their own sense of agency. Doing things that actively go against their wishes leads to, predictably, them not wanting to have anything to do with you. River will still go off and try to save Randy without you. Judy still has a path forward if you choose a middle-ground. Panam is capable but hot-headed and "my way or the highway". It's ingrained and crucial to her character. Kerry... well -- he's Kerry (seriously they introduced him way too late).

This game just tells a smaller, focused story and I think that's fine.

All of those points are related to side missions. It still doesn't change the fact that the main story is linear and the outcome of the game stays the same regardless

Hence the qualifier: beyond the endings. And the outcomes aren't the same - they share one footnote while offering different perspectives for an open-ended interpretation. Once you accept that symbolism and thematic elements are important to a story you'll understand it better. If you are stuck on the whole 6 months to live then you are missing the forest for the trees.

And the open ended-ness doesn't necessarily mean V's journey is done. They can continue it meaningfully with at least four of the seven endings. There are a lot of plot points they can work with which they have introduced and hinted at heavily.

 

[tRYSIS3]

Hence the qualifier: beyond the endings. And the outcomes aren't the same - they share one footnote while offering different perspectives for an open-ended interpretation. Once you accept that symbolism and thematic elements are important to a story you'll understand it better. If you are stuck on the whole 6 months to live then you are missing the forest for the trees.

And the open ended-ness doesn't necessarily mean V's journey is done. They can continue it meaningfully with at least four of the seven endings. There are a lot of plot points they can work with which they have introduced and hinted at heavily.

I know quite a lot about symbolism actually, and it's why I think the endings are pathetic. As I said in my first couple of posts here, those cues are there to give false hope to those looking for it and prevent backlash. Looking at the big picture, every single option ends the same way (death), it's not really rocket science

 

[Motsie]

I know quite a lot about symbolism actually, and it's why I think the endings are pathetic. As I said in my first couple of posts here, those cues are there to give false hope to those looking for it and prevent backlash. Looking at the big picture, every single option ends the same way (death), it's not really rocket science

And that's fine if that's how you want to interpret the messaging. It's not really rocket science.

 

[tRYSIS3]

And that's fine if that's how you want to interpret the messaging. It's not really rocket science.

If 3 roads lead to a dead-end you can believe that there is a way out, but it doesn't change the fact that there isn't one. It's not really an interpretation, but you are free to believe otherwise, I won't try to change your opinion

 

[Motsie]

If 3 roads lead to a dead-end you can believe that there is a way out, but it doesn't change the fact that there isn't one. It's not really an interpretation, but you are free to believe otherwise, I won't try to change your opinion

Because they aren't conclusive in any form. @Stanos91 already explained this to you (tried and failed apparently). The only conclusive endings in this game are the suicide ending and Johnny leaving Nightcity.

I get you don't like the endings, but don't saunter around arrogantly about how your optics of the endings are the only correct evaluation, and that everyone else is just being willfully ignorant. There is no fact here. If you think you die no matter what, fine -- I don't really care. But there is no fact derived from your interpretation..

 

[tRYSIS3]

The only conclusive endings in this game are the suicide ending and Johnny leaving Nightcity.

That's the thing... you are looking at each ending individually, but I'm looking at the bigger picture here. There are drastic differences between the endings with regard to the game world, with the only common factor being that V has 6 months to live or goes to cyberspace. It seems logical that cdpr (who we know for a fact have taken shortcuts with the game) will take the easy road (V dead), rather than attempt to patch every single discrepancy between the endings.

 

[EuphoricM]

The only conclusive endings in this game are the suicide ending and Johnny leaving Nightcity.

I agree, there's clear writer intent in leaving most endings open, meaning, we can't logic ourselves into a definitive conclusion without strong inference.

 

[poldengonyboy]

If 3 roads lead to a dead-end you can believe that there is a way out, but it doesn't change the fact that there isn't one. It's not really an interpretation, but you are free to believe otherwise, I won't try to change your opinion

I mean this whole thread is basically about how CDPR seems to be setting the endings up for a "way out" in almost all of the scenario's. We've all shown tons of evidence that would suggest that there is a cure out there for V and that CDPR has set the story/game up in a way that would have us most likely doing a post ending expansion in where we are sent out to find this cure. Either by direct means of searching for it ourselves, or by doing some dirty work for someone (Hanako or Mr Blue Eyes) who could potentially provide us either directly with the cure, or with vital information in order to obtain it ourselves.

There is so much foreshadowing throughout the story and especially at the end of the game to suggest that V is unlikely to actually die in 6 months from this illness that I think you are either intentionally avoiding for whatever reason, or it's because you just don't get it. But like @Motsie said, just because you don't like how the game ended doesn't mean you're right about what's gonna happen next with it.

 

[nadsh]

I agree, there's clear writer intent in leaving most endings open, meaning, we can't logic ourselves into a definitive conclusion without strong inference.

I'm still not even sure that Temperance is completely closed. Feels weird for Johnny to leave NC without a plan, just retire peacefully

 

[Guest 4519094]

agreed don't think any ending is terminal,
even the suicide one (and yes that implies really grim stuff)

 

[tRYSIS3]

I mean this whole thread is basically about how CDPR seems to be setting the endings up for a "way out" in almost all of the scenario's. We've all shown tons of evidence that would suggest that there is a cure out there for V and that CDPR has set the story/game up in a way that would have us most likely doing a post ending expansion in where we are sent out to find this cure. Either by direct means of searching for it ourselves, or by doing some dirty work for someone (Hanako or Mr Blue Eyes) who could potentially provide us either directly with the cure, or with vital information in order to obtain it ourselves.

There is so much foreshadowing throughout the story and especially at the end of the game to suggest that V is unlikely to actually die in 6 months from this illness that I think you are either intentionally avoiding for whatever reason, or it's because you just don't get it. But like @Motsie said, just because you don't like how the game ended doesn't mean you're right about what's gonna happen next with it.

I mean the creator of the chip himself said that V dies, and so did the best AI in the world. Is that not considered evidence enough? or are the words of people with 0 knowledge of V's condition (Panam/Misty/Hanako/Blue Eyes?) more valuable?

 

[poldengonyboy]

I mean the creator of the chip himself said that V dies, and so did the best AI in the world. Is that not considered evidence enough? or are the words of people with 0 knowledge of V's condition (Panam/Misty/Hanako/Blue Eyes?) more valuable?

I wouldn't say MBE has 0 knowledge of V's condition, he knows what V is suffering from and what his fate is before ever having met him, and he is also in control of some very advanced technology anyways. Hellman also thought that V had no chance of getting the relic out in the first place, and suggested a clinic in Sweden where we would've lived out our last days until Johnny eventually took over our body. Turns out we got the chip out and we're still alive.

Now the new problem doesn't have anything to do with the chip directly, V's new condition is more akin to MS from what I've heard and there have been news broadcasts in game mentioning a cure for MS being found. This is no longer in Hellman's field of expertise and also isn't in Alt's either (she's barely human anymore). Also, why wouldn't we trust Misty? This isn't real life where we could have real reason to doubt spirituality and her tarot readings, this is a fictional game, where all of her tarot readings have been right. Why would you assume now all of the sudden that her tarot readings are wrong when we have absolutely no evidence that she's ever been wrong and instead has always been right?

As for Panam, she doesn't have any knowledge of V's condition, but she never claims too, she just says she has contacts in AZ that could help with the problem. Based off what we know of the Aldecaldo's connection to Stormtech, who specialize in Bio and (nano?) engineering, they seem like a good lead to get us on the right track to finding a cure.

 

[EuphoricM]

As for Panam, she doesn't have any knowledge of V's condition, but she never claims too, she just says she has contacts in AZ that could help with the problem. Based off what we know of the Aldecaldo's connection to Stormtech, who specialize in Bio and (nano?) engineering, they seem like a good lead to get us on the right track to finding a cure.

Absolutely, what's more. It's far from unreasonable for a writer to present new characters that fled the city that could be helpful to resolve the issue (ex Arasaka employees, ex Trauma Team members how revive dead people, etc.). Nomads lore wise, are generally much better educated than street kids and usually have great minds in their clans that fled cities or corps for their own reasons. Hell, maybe the very contacts from Panam point you towards MBE himself and we get a common story node.

 

[Motsie]

That's the thing... you are looking at each ending individually, but I'm looking at the bigger picture here. There are drastic differences between the endings with regard to the game world, with the only common factor being that V has 6 months to live or goes to cyberspace. It seems logical that cdpr (who we know for a fact have taken shortcuts with the game) will take the easy road (V dead), rather than attempt to patch every single discrepancy between the endings.

They don't need to patch anything. This whole thread has been talking about how the commonality in 4 endings leaves room for continuation. Whether they decide to do so or not isn't any indication of what position they take.

creator of the chip himself said that V dies

The chip creator/expert that didn't even know how his Relic 2.0 managed to work, right?

Or Alt, the omnipotent AI that couldn't see past her own limitations when thinking on how to breach the Mikoshi firewall. Johnny had to remind her of the human factor that she has been far removed from for decades.

They both said that V will die. Consider for a moment who these people are and what their ulterior motives might be. Maybe they are right and you die. Maybe they aren't and you end up defying the odds because of the innate human instinct for survival.

I think despite the grim outlook the tarot cards want you to interpret it differently. The datapads they leave around alluding to each choice imply a whole a new meaning.

No one in this thread is passing off their interpretation of the endings as fact besides you. The consensus seems to hold that it's open ended and might continue - hence why we are here talking about expansions/DLC.

people with 0 knowledge of V's condition more valuable (Panam/Hanako/Blue Eyes?)?

Blue Eyes is apparently aware of V's issue. He gives you an impossible task because he knows you have nothing to lose.

Panam wants to try contacts like StormTech that specialize in genetics and a variety of other fields.

Hanako doesn't really care. She only cares about her family and everyone outside of that is just a pawn. They offer you a token of gratitude in the form of entering Mikoshi for free (deal with the devil). They have near zero vested interest in your survival, and considering how expensive the Mikoshi program is, they don't want to rationalize spending more than they have to trying to save someone with no chips left. The corporation always wins.

 

[tRYSIS3]

They don't need to patch anything. This whole thread has been talking about how the commonality in 4 endings leaves room for continuation. Whether they decide to do so or not isn't any indication of what position they take.

I don't see how there is "commonality" between Saburo coming back as head of Arasaka with Yorinobu dying (in Arasaka option) and Yorinobu remaining alive with Hanako dying (in other options)

The chip creator/expert that didn't even know how his Relic 2.0 managed to work, right?

He did help V remove it didn't he?

Or Alt, the omnipotent AI that couldn't see past her own limitations when thinking on how to breach the Mikoshi firewall. Johnny had to remind her of the human factor that she has been far removed from for decades.

She knows her own limitations, there is nothing wrong with that and it's unrelated to knowledge about V's condition. There is also no need for a "human" factor when it comes to medicine, it's science and it's available to an AI. Johnny is not the brightest guy ever either

what their ulterior motives might be.

There are none because if V does indeed survive he can come back to haunt them for lying, they have more to lose by lying

Blue Eyes is apparently aware of V's issue. He gives you an impossible task because he knows you have nothing to lose.

Do you actually have any knowledge of his intentions or what the mission is? he is a manipulative person and is sending V on a suicide mission (to die) for all we know

Panam wants to try contacts like StormTech that specialize in genetics and a variety of other fields.

They are not better equipped than Arasaka though, and if they indeed could help there is no reason we couldn't have gone to them directly instead of wasting time with Arasaka. Why didn't Panam mention them earlier instead of risking her own family's life?

 

[Stanos91]

I don't see how there is "commonality" between Saburo coming back as head of Arasaka with Yorinobu dying (in Arasaka option) and Yorinobu remaining alive with Hanako dying (in other options)

Saburo uses Yorinobu's body if he returns. Also, it is not like this would be the first time in gaming history where potentially dead characters still has some role in an upcoming expansion/game, and adding to that, not every character has to return in the expansion either. Takemaru can also die during the story, but he still had extra lines during the Arasaka ending if he is still alive.

He did help V remove it didn't he?

And? That does not make him an all knowing being.

She knows her own limitations, there is nothing wrong with that and it's unrelated to knowledge about V's condition. There is also no need for a "human" factor when it comes to medicine, it's science and it's available to an AI. Johnny is not the brightest guy ever either

Just because we know the sience behind cancer, that does not mean no doctor made mistakes when predicting the remaining lifespan of a patient. And Alt is not doctor, she is/was a netrunner.

There are none because if V does indeed survive he can come back to haunt them for lying, they have more to lose by lying

I highly doubt Alt is afraid of V. However it does not matter. You cannot know what you have stated there.

Do you actually have any knowledge of his intentions or what the mission is? he is a manipulative person and is sending V on a suicide mission (to die) for all we know

No, we do not. And that is the point. You are the one who stated something is impossible.

They are not better equipped than Arasaka though, and if they indeed could help there is no reason we couldn't have gone to them directly instead of wasting time with Arasaka. Why didn't Panam mention them earlier instead of risking her own family's life?

These are two different issues. During the game, the chip slowly kills you as it changes your brain, and body for Johnny's engram. After Mikoshi/operation the issue is that the chip did so much damage/change that your engram is not compatible with it. Arasaka is an expert in one field, like their own Biochip, while Biotechnica/Stormtech is an expert in other fields. Plus just because we as players know something, that does mean the characters in the game knows it.

You bring up these things while you ignore a very important one. This is sience fiction. If the writers want to change V into a unicorn and send him into another universe so Geralt and Yennefer can have sex on his back, they can do it. I am joking of course but hopefully you get my point.
Again, you can make your own conclusion about the endings, but instead of trying to force it upon us, you could be productive, and tell us what you think will happen in the expansions.

 

[bcraig6010]

I don't see how there is "commonality" between Saburo coming back as head of Arasaka with Yorinobu dying (in Arasaka option) and Yorinobu remaining alive with Hanako dying (in other options)
He did help V remove it didn't he?
She knows her own limitations, there is nothing wrong with that and it's unrelated to knowledge about V's condition. There is also no need for a "human" factor when it comes to medicine, it's science and it's available to an AI. Johnny is not the brightest guy ever either
There are none because if V does indeed survive he can come back to haunt them for lying, they have more to lose by lying
Do you actually have any knowledge of his intentions or what the mission is? he is a manipulative person and is sending V on a suicide mission (to die) for all we know
They are not better equipped than Arasaka though, and if they indeed could help there is no reason we couldn't have gone to them directly instead of wasting time with Arasaka. Why didn't Panam mention them earlier instead of risking her own family's life?

I know you must feel like you're talking to a wall so wanted to chime in.
Yes - there are vast differences between the ending where V is dying. Who is running Arasaka and even time frames (days to weeks have passed in Nomad, three months has passed in assault in space, and indeterminate post surgery that to try and create an expansion centered on V - so many resources would be used voice-acting and graphically just to get the divergent paths to get to a point where Save V the Game Part Deux begins. From a company that just released an unfinished game. (or alternately, story expansions have nothing to do with V at all.. not what I want but what I expect)

And you are arguing with people who believe - they interpret a character saying "you will find happiness" and passage in illiad and interpreting that as "V will live" whereas some would see dying alone vs spending last 6 months of your life surrounded by family and loved ones as "happy". Man of Science vs. Man of Faith Argument. Who is Right - essentially a walking horoscope OR Every single other medical professional in the game saying youre going to die (Vic, Hellmann, Arasaka Drs), AND the AI that wrote the program that killed you and how to save whats left and store it. "Misty is always right" but not right in the way everyone things as she is reading the fates of the TWO people in habiting the body in front of her (sans visiting her before the heist). Whereas believe it or not Arasaka Dr's have every reason to want to know how to survive what is happening as nanites linked to an engram can EASILY be weaponized in cyberspace - as arasaka has been doing similar with netrunners - hitting them with soulkiller - so V is valuable medical research to them.

Mr. Blue Eyes - yes we should TOTALLY trust the guy who (Vic says not to and also has been 100% right in the game) AND was involved in (likely a rogue AI plot) to totally wipe and rewrite the memories of MANY innocent people and then control them as puppets - totally benign person we like should TOTALLY trust. Like destroying someone's identity and memories of good times and our closest friends and family is like you know, jaywalking level of behavior or something and not that big a deal. Totally benevolent figure who is out for our best interests (AFTER we possibly interfered with his plans with the next mayor). So totes BFF material.

These "maybe possibly" cure chances people cling so desperately to are the result of a bad game ending and people desperately not wanting every choice we make in the game to amount to "tough crud youre still dead/dying". No one wants to spend hours and hours in a Kobiyashi Maru when you know how it ends. But they are there to sweeten the blow for us. AS the game (sadly) wasn't V's story - everything we did outside of potential romance quests, was linear, essentially a single ending or meaningless double ending (phone call difference), and had no visible result upon our fate other than hints/wishes/clues to be divined. It is Johnny's story. It's why nearly any meaningful mission cannot be done before Johnny Arrives - can't get the real protagonists opinion. Why not fly to Arizona is the aladacadoes knew there is some mystical place there (and wouldn't they TELL you????) NO - as the protagonist needs another assault on THIER enemy - Arasaka.

Why on earth would they tack on all those pre-phone call "Whats everyone trying to say to V" things THAT THE PLAYER NEVER CHOSE. Assault tower alone but dont want to live in expensive apartment but look for cure instead or just retire - nope. Team with Nomads but decide to stay in NS, Let Johnny assault with Rogue but not take over a bar but go with aldecadoes... Zero choice. All we choose is the method of assaulting a building. Not what we do after. That ALL we chose - with whom to go on a possible suicide mission with. We never ever got to decide "what next".

As CP2077 is Johnny's Story. Not V. It's why they stopped referring to it as a RPG but instead of an action adventure game where we play the part of V.

Sadly, I expect expansion to be other's stories or pre-idiotic final mission stories. AS reconciling , from THIS COMPANY, would make any expansion very $$$ on the voice acting, and graphical work for cutscenes to try and merge all the possible paths into something that can continue "to find a cure for V". They said the story is complete. As CP77 is Johnny's Story - not V's. And I think they have failed miserably if this turns true.