[SPOILERS] End-Game And Suspicions About The First DLC

[Restlessdingo32]

I don't doubt that they would, but why do... both? Lie about Soulkilling and then put V back in their body and offer to Soulkill them again?

I dunno. Perhaps CDPR wanted to break the record for most ways the player can kill their own player character via completing the game. So they offered incentives for Arasaka to convince the player to do it twice.

On a more serious note.... I agree with your earlier interpretation. V goes under the scalpal and gets the chip removed. I'm not entirely sure how that works since we were told much earlier V kind of... needs the chip. I guess Arasaka waved a magic wand to make this part work. From this point V is presented with the option to do their own thing or hop into the bag of holding.

I wouldn't be surprised if during that initial process Arasaka slipped in a soulkill for the engram though. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't. The reason is your question above. V wouldn't expect it because... it doesn't make sense to do it then offer an option to do it again.

 

[Rensarvik]

Also Hanako dies in all but Devil ending. If you take the Star ending, and listen to Stanley in the car, Stanley says Hanako was killed by the terrorists, then about how Corporations are all blood, sweat, and tears.

Hanako's death is just some radio statement, as far as offscreen deaths go, this is one of the easiest to dismiss in future as simply result of some confusion or intentional misinformation.

I'm surprised how many people miss this during the surgery segments. Like, you're in Mikoshi talking to Silverhand in his final moments - how do people think V got there? Soulkiller.

You can visit cyberspace without being soulkillered, so while Arasaka doing it to V can't be ruled out, there is no definite proof of it happening either.

 

[exxxed]

You can visit cyberspace without being soulkillered, so while Arasaka doing it to V can't be ruled out, there is no definite proof of it happening either.

While I agree and I was under the same impression at first, V is in fact in Mikoshi at the end of The Devil, now what that entails I don't know, since they do go through the procedure of removing The Relic so an Engram V wouldn't technically work without The Relic.

So you may be right, but it could also be part of the procedure to remove The Relic and untangle V's consciousness from Johnny's akin to Alt's way, as for why would Arasaka do this and then offer the option to enter the Mikoshi vault for V at the end, ehm, that was the deal, remove the relic...

 

[LordSareth]

No, it's not the same situation. Johnny doesn't have his original body. That's why he is only but an engram and nothing else. Whereas V still has their body fully intact, with their original consciousness inside waiting to be awakened by the Relic's repair process when Alt slots the engram she created back into it.

Let's look at it this way: your brain gets shut off for a couple of minutes, then your memories and personality get extracted and put into an engram, which is then put back into the Relic, so it can repair your brain and bring back everything that has been extracted. Will you see or call yourself a copy? Because if you think about it - nothing changed. You're still the same you, with your original perception of reality (consciousness) and all the memories and personality present.

I disagree. This is cyberpunk, distopian world, no happy endings, rings a bell? And you want your oryginal V? Please....
But jokes aside , i still disagree but i will admit that there are many things unclear or even can be called plotholes. First of all there is no such a thing as "exctract" memories and personality. What you get is a copy. Brain is biological, with myriad of states and processes running. That is what defines "you". Relic damages it, rewrites it biologically, hence the need of nanites.
When V plugs into mikoshi, the soulkiller is used by alt. And soulkiller is a virus, a program, digital one, so it goes into every implant you have to gather data about V brain state, to relic propably too. Then it wipes the personality to leave the brain in "empty" state( How can it wipe it I have no idea,I would call it plot hole, or maybe someone can explain it? It is some kind of electrical impulse? I fail to see how can it be done or just makes the brain cease all neural activity by shutting down implants? ). At that moment, V is just clunk of unorganised bits. With data gathered alt recreates V personality in digital form, corrects errors, ( Can we be sure that all of V was copied succesfully? When you read relic documentation you can see that volition fluctuates at 80-90% conformity and emotional output at 75% conformity levels so it's certainly not perfect). Then engram is copied again into V's body( But into what? Relic? Alt said that she stopped him from working to stop overriding V, if she would have restarted him with V engram it would again go to work to fix the damage done.... and there would be no 6 months BS, into brain? Then relic and nanites are unnessesary if you can override everything directly.) So im assuming that relic became intergral part of the brain and assumed some functions of it. That's why Engram V can still control body as engram. And nanites don't work. So in my perspective changed a lot.( Even alt and johnny knows it, remember the conversation in first meeting? "It changes everything". And to clarify - Brain as centre of oryginal V vs relic as centre of Engram V).

There are many things that don't make sense and it is supposed to be a science fiction. Not fantasy. I would agree in fantasy setting to some magic mambo jambo that can pull inbrain, fix it , then put back but in SF it should make sense...

In case of DLC, what do you think , will we get info in 2021? Or not?

 

[Solidus2kill]

I disagree. This is cyberpunk, distopian world, no happy endings, rings a bell? And you want your oryginal V? Please....
But jokes aside , i still disagree but i will admit that there are many things unclear or even can be called plotholes. First of all there is no such a thing as "exctract" memories and personality. What you get is a copy. Brain is biological, with myriad of states and processes running. That is what defines "you". Relic damages it, rewrites it biologically, hence the need of nanites.
When V plugs into mikoshi, the soulkiller is used by alt. And soulkiller is a virus, a program, digital one, so it goes into every implant you have to gather data about V brain state, to relic propably too. Then it wipes the personality to leave the brain in "empty" state( How can it wipe it I have no idea,I would call it plot hole, or maybe someone can explain it? It is some kind of electrical impulse? I fail to see how can it be done or just makes the brain cease all neural activity by shutting down implants? ). At that moment, V is just clunk of unorganised bits. With data gathered alt recreates V personality in digital form, corrects errors, ( Can we be sure that all of V was copied succesfully? When you read relic documentation you can see that volition fluctuates at 80-90% conformity and emotional output at 75% conformity levels so it's certainly not perfect). Then engram is copied again into V's body( But into what? Relic? Alt said that she stopped him from working to stop overriding V, if she would have restarted him with V engram it would again go to work to fix the damage done.... and there would be no 6 months BS, into brain? Then relic and nanites are unnessesary if you can override everything directly.) So im assuming that relic became intergral part of the brain and assumed some functions of it. That's why Engram V can still control body as engram. And nanites don't work. So in my perspective changed a lot.( Even alt and johnny knows it, remember the conversation in first meeting? "It changes everything". And to clarify - Brain as centre of oryginal V vs relic as centre of Engram V).

There are many things that don't make sense and it is supposed to be a science fiction. Not fantasy. I would agree in fantasy setting to some magic mambo jambo that can pull inbrain, fix it , then put back but in SF it should make sense...

In case of DLC, what do you think , will we get info in 2021? Or not?

Maybe the first one of the expansions, fall 2021.

"Free Dlcs" are near, next months

 

[Hammerstein]

I disagree. This is cyberpunk, distopian world, no happy endings, rings a bell? And you want your oryginal V? Please....

This is a misunderstanding, CP was never created as some kind of grimdark world where failure is 99% of the outcomes. This was never Mike Pondsmith's (the creator of Cyberpunk, who worked with CDPR) vision, cause he knew that a world, where the players cannot win, makes a very poor gaming or story-telling vehicle.

Here are some quotes by Pondsmith:

“When I wrote Cyberpunk back in the day, the idea was to show a dark mirror of the world we have been shaping since the 1980s. It was a warning, yes, but I also made all of you the heroes of this dystopian world. You weren’t there to be ground underfoot like Rick Deckard, or exploited and enslaved like Roy Batty. You were there to grab the wheel, steal the power, break the strangleholds of the corrupt and gun down the thugs they sent to crush you."

“Cyberpunk is political, but it’s not political in a blue-state-red-state-conservative-liberal [way],” he says. “It is basically [that] people deserve to be able to get a decent meal, live in a decent place and do all that if they’re willing to work for it, and not get screwed over by people more powerful than they are, who may not need to even screw them over, but are doing it on principle because they think they can do it.”

"Thankfully, in the game at least, that’s where the heroes come in. “Characters in Cyberpunk are heroes, and survive and do well because they are willing to fight for family or friends, for their neighbourhoods.”

“It can not be about saving the world. You’re saving yourself or your community,” he says. “The stakes have to be something that involves the player. You can’t just say, ‘The world is craptastic and you can’t do anything about it.’ No. You don’t have to save the world, but you need to be able to save your mother or the apartment you and your friends live in. You need to make sure your neighborhood isn’t rolled over by the boostergangs.”

...

Too bad the CP writers didn't understand his intention.

 

[limbo47800]

DLC,where?

 

[Solidus2kill]

In any case this is THE Pondsmith's view of a Cyberpunk world, and I say world not "story" or "narrative".

Enough with "this is not like Blade Runner" or "cyberpunk have to be sad and hopeless" because this isn't even the case (and it's kinda annoying).

CP77 is a little story in a big world that can be expanded in the future.

V's story, our avatar, our story[...]

just for saying.

it's starting to get boring read things like "V's story is end blablabla we want panam/judy as main character (or worst, Johnny)"

 

[Bridges001]

I don't understand why people don't want V in the DLC (if they ever come out).
her affair with johnny is over.
but we all want to try to save V. that would allow her to develop his personality and her relations with the other characters

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

I agree, that it's not right to get rid of what a player was able to build in the game. However, the more I read lore the more I see them replacing v with johnny. there are a few things that point in this direction. In the end all options in the point of no return for v is death.. maybe not right away but eventually v is going to die. However, if you let johnny live. Johnny gets a brand new life. I don't remember when exactly but there is a dialogue between female v and johnny that talk about how weird it is for johnny being stuck in a females body. The conversation ends with johnny saying he's getting used to it, whatever that means lol.. And the fact that v's body is changing to carry Johnny's engram is just one massive indication I think. If the guy who created the relic program can't do anything about it. And the woman who created soulkiller can't help, I don't see anyway for v to live.

As for skills and what we players worked towards, it just gets transfered to johnny I guess.

Obviously I could be way off. But the lore suggests arasakas resources are immeasurable, even in the devil ending they can't really help. Sad times, just put v in a relic, find a random doll and viola body for v lol

technology doesn't really work like that, its not always about one expert. And the main problem is that both Arasaka, and Alt were primarily focused on the brain machine interface. They aren't the cutting edge best scientists when it comes to biology. Also keep In mind this is basically the first iteration, and the first time it actually worked, this is the very beginning of the science stage. Just with studying V, they already have a workable version for Saburo. Hellman also mentions that more resources are being used for saburo, than they are willing to use for V.

So I wouldn't say it is scientifically unlikely to save V, its mostly a matter of time, resources, and influence.

 

[exxxed]

technology doesn't really work like that, its not always about one expert. And the main problem is that both Arasaka, and Alt were primarily focused on the brain machine interface. They aren't the cutting edge best scientists when it comes to biology. Also keep In mind this is basically the first iteration, and the first time it actually worked, this is the very beginning of the science stage. Just with studying V, they already have a workable version for Saburo. Hellman also mentions that more resources are being used for saburo, than they are willing to use for V.

So I wouldn't say it is scientifically unlikely to save V, its mostly a matter of time, resources, and influence.

That and the advert for Biotechnica's BioDyne's Multiple Sclerosis that uses nanomachines and costs seven hundred thousand smackaroos a month for the treatment.

It's doable but V needs to get in bed with the right people or have the right people owe V the right kind of favors, I can see a few strands forming towards a logical conclusion that has V surviving while not undermining the main plot narrative and themes, basically V will have to keep making sacrifices and if they potentially win the price could be too high.

 

[Valer48]

I don't understand why people don't want V in the DLC (if they ever come out).
her affair with johnny is over.
but we all want to try to save V. that would allow her to develop his personality and her relations with the other characters

That, and just my view, I don't see it likely for any DLC to venture too far from the formula they introduced in CP.

Whether loved or hated, the game has a clear storyline that leaves open many possibilities for V (unless you make a certain choice on a certain rooftop). In addition, one of the strongest aspects of the game has been how strong the characters are that we're introduced to.

Having a DLC that ignores what you've done or asks you to rp as someone completely different for a short amount of time just doesn't seem satisfying or consistent with what they have done in the game.

Let's get 2-3 basic intros that start differently based on how you ended the game and then carry on the story from there. It's way too early to speculate, but it's a near certainty that they will publish more games under the CP brand in the future. I don't see the attractiveness of asking the player to keep shifting their identity each time. The bulk of the game really takes place over a month or so, so no reason DLC or future games couldn't delve further into V's story.

Just my thoughts!

 

[OG_VELI]

That and the advert for Biotechnica's Multiple Sclerosis that uses nanomachines and costs seven hundred thousand smackaroos a month for the treatment.

It's BioDyne Systems, not Biotechnica. But according to the wiki page, BioDyne had gone bankrupt in 2009. So I guess they are back up and running in 2077, huh.

And why pay when you can just raid that shit and klep it, you know how it is.

 

[Guest 4412420]

but it's a near certainty that they will publish more games under the CP brand in the future. I don't see the attractiveness of asking the player to keep shifting their identity each time.

This is just my personal opinion but I don't think V will return as a player character in possible sequel(s), though I'd love if they did. If anything this is yet another reason why V needs be the main character for the expansions. To give them a proper sendoff, because in my opinion even the endings where they do live don't feel like proper open-endings.

 

[exxxed]

It's BioDyne Systems, not Biotechnica. But according to the wiki page, BioDyne had gone bankrupt in 2009. So I guess they are back up and running in 2077, huh.

And why pay when you can just raid that shit and klep it, you know how it is.

That's funny because I actually wrote BioDyne first and then corrected it after a quick google search (bare in mind I'm hung over ).

As for the last part it's a monthly treatment so it may not be as simple as klepping a bunch of nano doodads and ingesting them to get the cure .

To me it seems more feasible for V to end up working with or having some sort of leverage to secure themselves such a treatment that might involve a personal or moral sacrifice.

I have a feeling that our expectations will be subverted though, so I'm bracing myself for the worst.

 

[OG_VELI]

As for the last part it's a monthly treatment so it may not be as simple as klepping a bunch of nano doodads and ingesting them to get the cure .

It's stated that it works by injecting the nanites, so I'm guessing it's some kinda special syringe filled with them or something of that sort.

I have a feeling that our expectations will be subverted though, so I'm bracing myself for the worst.

My expectations were always low, and I'm gonna keep it that way.

 

[exxxed]

It's stated that it works by injecting the nanites, so I'm guessing it's some kinda special syringe filled with them or something of that sort.

Curious, perhaps they have a short lifespan and the subjects need multiple doses over the course of the treatment, or perhaps they have different types of nanites that facilitate different reactions of the body which ultimately leads to the cure and they need to be updated or replaced with different stages of the cure.

Food for thought...

Post automatically merged: Mar 7, 2021

My expectations were always low, and I'm gonna keep it that way.

Mine weren't and still aren't and I believe in CDPR's ability to create a compelling narrative ever since the first Witcher game and so far I have not been disappointed, in fact I'm constantly and pleasantly surprised.

So here's me the endless optimist...

 

[OG_VELI]

I believe in CDPR's ability to create a compelling narrative ever since the first Witcher game and so far I have not been disappointed, in fact I'm constantly and pleasantly surprised.

Oh, for sure, I love the game, don't get me wrong. It became my absolute favorite of all time, mainly for the narrative, the lore, and the characters. It's just that my expectations were low before the release. Hell, I didn't even care about the game until I saw the launch trailer, after which I decided to buy it.

So here's me the endless optimist...

I would call myself an optimist as well, but maybe not in the current landscape. I just don't want to get disappointed expecting too much.

 

[exxxed]

Oh, for sure, I love the game, don't get me wrong. It became my absolute favorite of all time, mainly for the narrative, the lore, and the characters. It's just that my expectations were low before the release. Hell, I didn't even care about the game until I saw the launch trailer, after which I decided to buy it.

Likewise except on the other end of the spectrum for me, I gobbled up all the media surrounding the game but I realistically expected what CDPR was capable of doing and I wasn't disappointed.

I would call myself an optimist as well, but maybe not in the current landscape. I just don't want to get disappointed expecting too much.

I understand and I believe that that's a reasonable choice, I just like living dangerously .

In all seriousness I can't wait to see what they decide to do narratively wise, even if I ultimately disagree with the direction it might take I'm sure it will have other strong points and hooks to attach to.

Come on CDPR

 

[JoshShaw]

That, and just my view, I don't see it likely for any DLC to venture too far from the formula they introduced in CP.

Whether loved or hated, the game has a clear storyline that leaves open many possibilities for V (unless you make a certain choice on a certain rooftop). In addition, one of the strongest aspects of the game has been how strong the characters are that we're introduced to.

Having a DLC that ignores what you've done or asks you to rp as someone completely different for a short amount of time just doesn't seem satisfying or consistent with what they have done in the game.

Let's get 2-3 basic intros that start differently based on how you ended the game and then carry on the story from there. It's way too early to speculate, but it's a near certainty that they will publish more games under the CP brand in the future. I don't see the attractiveness of asking the player to keep shifting their identity each time. The bulk of the game really takes place over a month or so, so no reason DLC or future games couldn't delve further into V's story.

Just my thoughts!

I'm with you here. I REALLY hope we continue as V in any sequels. Ever since Mass Effect 3 I've been dying for a new series of AAA RPGs that lets you play as the same character for multiple games with choices and relationships rolling over. The level of emotional attachment and investment in the plot is just so much better that way. I wish they'd do it with Dragon Age, but if not hopefully Cyberpunk can capitalise on that. Could Judy be the next Garrus Vakarian? I totally think so.

As for the DLC, I think all signs point to whatever is going down at the Crystal Palace. It's advertised all over the game, is where V ends up in two endings and seems the most..."DLCish" choice (somewhere totally unique and novel from the base game, but too out there to be the focus of an entire game). If you chose the Nomad ending they could easily just start you there and divert you to the palace like how the backgrounds in the vanilla game funnel you to night city after a unique intro quest. And obviously the suicide and Johnny endings are just that. Endings. You choose to end V's story there if you select those. Can't really expect post-game DLC to accommodate that.

Post automatically merged: Mar 14, 2021

I think there is going to have to be at least two life options for V in DLC. One, you go about finding a cure. Or.... two, becuase of the other grim endings, you are cloned and they insert your engram into a new body to have you do a long drawn out mission as payment for bringing you back.
Whatever it is i just hope we have the option of not dealing with or only minutely dealing with Panam. She is just the epitome of everything I dislike about a person. Oh and her constant whining. That too.

Oh lord, I have to agree. I don't hate Panam, she's a well rounded character, but she suffers from severe writers favourite syndrome like Liara from Mass Effect. Great for anyone romancing her but if you're romancing one of the other characters you can't help but resent Panam for how much more content she has and how hard she's pushed on you. I hope any DLC gives some love to the other romances as part of the central plot. River is a combat trained, super buff police detective/PI, for crying out loud. If you're in a romance with him he basically BEGS to help you multiple times, yet you can't bring him to Arasaka tower. That biker chick you know, though? Sure! I don't think it would take a gargantuan feat of writing to utilise his PI skills and contacts for any future plots.