[SPOILERS] Evelyn Parker, wasted potential! Your Thoughts?

[ShinAkira00]

This wouldn't make much sense since Evelyn is the client, and Dex is the fixer. Dex doesn't have any interest in the Relic, and is only organising the job because Evelyn hired him to do it. If Dex, as a fixer, decides that Evelyn is a bad client trying to cut him out of the deal, then he just blacklists her and no other fixer will take her jobs. There wouldn't be any killing here, because not only would he cut out the client if they decided to go over the fixer, but also anyone who took the job, which would be very bad for business for V. This is precisely what makes fixers so valuable and important within the Cyberpunk universe, but it's a two-edged sword. A fixer who killed their clients would also find business drying up really fast unless the client posed an actual immediate threat to the life and/or reputation of the fixer in question.

Ultimately, though, there's no job without Evelyn OR Dex, which is why V never actually cuts either out. If there was going to be any cutting, it would happen after the job was successfully completed, and V had a biochip ready to hand off to one or the other in exchange for payment. Since we never actually get that far, that choice at that stage becomes a non-starter.

Yes but at that point he'd already done his job as a fixer, that's why she made us the offer to betray him. She hired him remember so she can replace him. As for Dex, he was already suspicious of her, he asks you frankly if there's anything he should know after you meet with her. Betrayals are not unusual in a fixers world or clients. We meet a fixer in the game who was double crossed. Panam was also double crossed by her partner who attempted to sell the goods. Night City is rife with betrayal so there's nothing unusual about it. If Dex killed her then he could easily sell it to someone else, reputation doesn't matter because he already has a shady one. No one we meet in the game has anything good to say about him, I dare say having a bad reputation is his preference. It's why he went into hiding for years and only just resurfaced. It's why he took the job no one else would. Besides if Evelyn told anyone about the betrayal she would be admitting her involvement in it and likely killed. Dex's purpose was putting together a team and the team was already gathered at this point. T-bug made it clear through conversations that she has allegiance to no one. Evelyn also could find another fixer if needs be.

V doesn't cut either one out because the writers opted not to. It very well could be written differently. It also doesn't need to progress after the heist. Things could still progress as they did and you take the chip to Evelyn instead of Dex. We don't spend nearly enough time with either of them for it to involve the story beyond that. It would simply add a layer for replayability.

The one thing the game struggled with is creating unique paths, more so with the life paths but there are a few missed opportunities like this one.

 

[remiel_pollard]

If Dex killed her then he could easily sell it to someone else, reputation doesn't matter because he already has a shady one.

This demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the fixer dynamic. Reputation absolutely does matter until it doesn't, and Dex is still very much a big dog. The fact he can get a private booth at the Afterlife to do business is enough evidence that a 'shady' reputation doesn't mean business is over. As soon as he kills a client, that changes. And no, he won't just find another buyer. That's now how you do business, even in the real world. In real world crime, the only people who steal something without already having a fence are desperate idiots robbing liquor stores, and people addicted to the challenge like serial art thieves.

It played out in a way that made sense. After the heist goes bad, V only knows of one location to go to, and doesn't get a choice in the matter because that's Delemain's pre-arranged itinerary. Del won't take V to Evelyn because 1. neither of them would even be able to find her, she's already in the process of disappearing, and 2. the plan was always to go to the No-Tell in the event that SHTF. The story establishes all the reasons for why things happen the way they do, and why you never get the opportunity to betray Dex. Even if you were planning to do it, the fact he betrays you first helps create a sense of irony, especially when he gets taken out by Takemura, robbing V of any opportunity for revenge.

A missed opportunity for a gaming mechanic? Maybe. But again, this game is a story first, game second, and it knows the story it is telling. That's why you don't get the option. Another reasons is because that's just not how things work. Sometimes, events are outside of your control and you are going to be a passenger for those things whether you like it or not. This is just one of those things.

 

[CTPhipps]

As I understand Night City's rules, once Evelyn shows she's going to screw Dex, there's multiple ways it can go down:

1. You tell Dex and Dex makes preparations to force her to cough up his percentage.

2. You and Evelyn rip off Dex and potentially get yourself blacklisted by the Afterlife/Underworld.

3. One or two of them die.

4. Dex tries to cut HER off and sell directly the Relic to another buyer--which will ruin his reputation but the Eddies may be too good.

5. Evelyn and/or Dex try to kill the other and say, "Oh well, these things happen."

 

[remiel_pollard]

As I understand Night City's rules, once Evelyn shows she's going to screw Dex, there's multiple ways it can go down:

1. You tell Dex and Dex makes preparations to force her to cough up his percentage.

Unless Evelyn is trying to kill Dex, this is what happens, and additionally, Evelyn's reputation goes down the drain and no fixer will ever touch her again. There just isn't as much unnecessary killing in professional circles as there is in gang circles.

And V isn't ripping off anyone because the heist doesn't end well. And yes, the only opportunity V is going to get to 'screw' anyone is after V has what they want and can make that choice. No choice is available because SHTF. It's also not available for narrative reasons. When all is said and done, V is going to be stuck with the chip and dealing with the consequences of the heist gone wrong, not some extremely narratively distracting side-plot of betrayal and subversion that would only serve to over-complicate the story being told unnecessarily.

 

[CTPhipps]

Unless Evelyn is trying to kill Dex, this is what happens, and additionally, Evelyn's reputation goes down the drain and no fixer will ever touch her again. There just isn't as much unnecessary killing in professional circles as there is in gang circles.

And V isn't ripping off anyone because the heist doesn't end well. And yes, the only opportunity V is going to get to 'screw' anyone is after V has what they want and can make that choice. No choice is available because SHTF. It's also not available for narrative reasons. When all is said and done, V is going to be stuck with the chip and dealing with the consequences of the heist gone wrong, not some extremely narratively distracting side-plot of betrayal and subversion that would only serve to over-complicate the story being told unnecessarily.

Part of the issue is the Heist section of the game and everything leading up to it is considered by most gamers to be the best part of the game.

 

[ShinAkira00]

As I understand Night City's rules, once Evelyn shows she's going to screw Dex, there's multiple ways it can go down:

1. You tell Dex and Dex makes preparations to force her to cough up his percentage.

2. You and Evelyn rip off Dex and potentially get yourself blacklisted by the Afterlife/Underworld.

3. One or two of them die.

4. Dex tries to cut HER off and sell directly the Relic to another buyer--which will ruin his reputation but the Eddies may be too good.

5. Evelyn and/or Dex try to kill the other and say, "Oh well, these things happen."

Seems you're forgetting Dex tried to kill us. If a fixer killing their crew isn't bad for reputation, I don't think we need to worry about that. Nothing we learn about Dex suggests he follows the same rules. He would never have taken the job if he did because everyone knows not to steal from Arasaka.


This is Night City, I'm not sure why you think anyone would get blacklisted in the underworld. It quite literally represents services outside of the rules.

I'm any case, I wouldn't want to rewrite the story. I think providing a simple option of going with one or the other and seeing the repercussions (either one of them dying) being a direct result of your choice would be a lot more engaging.

 

[CTPhipps]

Seems you're forgetting Dex tried to kill us. If a fixer killing their crew isn't bad for reputation, I don't think we need to worry about that. Nothing we learn about Dex suggests he follows the same rules. He would never have taken the job if he did because everyone knows not to steal from Arasaka.

In fact he absolutely knows he's stealing from Arasaka and Yorinobu in particular. Dex is also planning to get out of the city afterward.

It's just there's a difference between stealing a highly important piece of Arasaka technology vs. being involved in killing the most powerful man in the world.

Basically, it's meant to be stealing the new Iphone before its release by Microsoft and then you ended up killing President Clinton and Steve Jobs in one.

 

[remiel_pollard]

Part of the issue is the Heist section of the game and everything leading up to it is considered by most gamers to be the best part of the game.

And therein lies the problem, the failure of 'most gamers' to distinguish between the game and the story. Again, Cyberpunk 2077 is story first, game second.

Post automatically merged: Sep 21, 2022

This is Night City, I'm not sure why you think anyone would get blacklisted in the underworld. It quite literally represents services outside of the rules.

Because even the 'underworld' has rules, and if you have a reputation for betraying people, other people aren't going to want to work with you, for what should be pretty obvious reasons, even in the underworld.

 

[Lazcano96]

Bad ending for her Xs

 

[CTPhipps]

And therein lies the problem, the failure of 'most gamers' to distinguish between the game and the story. Again, Cyberpunk 2077 is story first, game second.

I mean, one should compliment the other.

What makes a game good is its interactivity. The ability to make choices without the story suffering but being better for that choice.

Otherwise, it's just a novel.

 

[remiel_pollard]

I mean, one should compliment the other.

What makes a game good is its interactivity. The ability to make choices without the story suffering but being better for that choice.

Otherwise, it's just a novel.

They do compliment each other. As I've explained before, the idea you're presenting is a distraction - it is neither complimentary nor supplementary - and doesn't serve any purpose in the narrative. It also overcomplicates development. Maybe it's something you would personally like, but there is no accounting for personal taste, especially in terms of narrative flow. There is a story that is being told, and a game that is constructed around it. As it is, too much of the game already distracts from the core narrative by way of dissociating from it, and this would only serve to widen the rift.

I'm sure there are a thousand things that could have been made a 'choice', like the choice to never get chipped in the first place and play the whole game cyberware-free, or the choice to chicken out at the border the moment you see those Arasaka trucks coming your way in the Nomad intro and just pull over and give up, or the choice to join a gang and do a bunch of GTA gang territory stuff as has been suggested before. None of these things are conducive to narrative flow and because it's a story first, game second, then the focus is going to be on the narrative first, the choices second. Some things must necessarily be outside of V's control for the narrative to proceed, because some of these choice completely break the narrative and, as a result, the core purpose of the game's existence.

You say it would make it 'better' but who is it better for? Certainly not someone that's in it for the story, like me. I don't think it's better at all. I think it's a distraction, and I also think spoiling the player for choice in games like this is precisely what leads to the expectation that everything should be a choice. A long time ago, when I was a kid, we had "Choose Your Own Adventure" novels. You would read it, and it would present you with choices that would then tell you to turn to a certain page where the narrative would progress according to the choice you made. This game is, in fact, a novel in the same way as those were, except it is present in an audio-visual format because of more modern technology that allows it. So yes, it is 'just a novel' but it is also a game, just like those books were. Some of them even let you create a character, complete with hit points and simplified stats, track inventory, and even do combat with instructions on how to roll dice and what those dice rolls would mean.

And with that in mind, what Cyberpunk 2077 actually is is the tabletop game adapted for the interactive audio-visual medium. The tabletop game also had a narrative around which your game would progress. The tabletop game is what this game should be compared to. Instead, I think a lot of people are bringing their experience of other games, like Fallout and Mass Effect, as their benchmark, which is understandable, but ultimately does you a disservice by giving you false expectations.

 

[CTPhipps]

They do compliment each other. As I've explained before, the idea you're presenting is a distraction - it is neither complimentary nor supplementary - and doesn't serve any purpose in the narrative. It also overcomplicates development. Maybe it's something you would personally like, but there is no accounting for personal taste, especially in terms of narrative flow. There is a story that is being told, and a game that is constructed around it. As it is, too much of the game already distracts from the core narrative by way of dissociating from it, and this would only serve to widen the rift.

Well up to you, I feel like the game is severely degraded from its full potential by the lack of meaningful choices. There's some decent ones throughout the game but it needs more to reach its full potential.

YMMV.

 

[maniak6767]

Any fleshed out character for some people is wasted potential or whatever. Evelyn is not that intersting character tbh outside her mask.

 

[gbily]

I liked Evelyn from the start and was disappointed how her story ended especially that I was not even given a chance to change her fate. Looks like loads of material was cut out from the game or the questline was not carrefully crafted . I have the same thoughts about Peralez quests which seem unfinished.

 

[CTPhipps]

I liked Evelyn from the start and was disappointed how her story ended especially that I was not even given a chance to change her fate. Looks like loads of material was cut out from the game or the questline was not carrefully crafted . I have the same thoughts about Peralez quests which seem unfinished.

According to the writer they wrote it because they wanted it to end with no way for V to deal with it or stop it to enhance the paranoia.

A lot of this game seems built on the idea of going against conventional storytelling and heroic narratives.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Looks like loads of material was cut out from the game or the questline was not carrefully crafted . I have the same thoughts about Peralez quests which seem unfinished.

Don't really know about Evelyn (even if I think it was intentional and not due to "unfinished" or "cut" content)
But Dream On (Peralez), it's totally intentional
A tweet from the Red who created this quest (Patrick Mills) :

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441026008350539785