[SPOILERS FOR TW1/2/3] Triss Merigold - master manipulator or a victim of circumstance?

[ReptilePZ]

[SPOILERS FOR TW1/2/3] Triss Merigold - master manipulator or a victim of circumstance?

Right off the bat, I want to give a warning that this thread will only tolerate civil, on-topic discussion (slight off-topic for insightful, non-inflammatory discussions will be allowed).

So, I'm interested in discussing Triss' role in the games specifically, as well as her actions.

In my opinion, there are 2 general ways to look at her behaviour. I'll start with the theory that she's, for the most part, being honest with Geralt.

So, TW1: She helps Geralt recover from escaping the WH at KM. As far as she's aware, Yen is dead, and she still has strong feelings for Geralt. She uses Geralt's amnesia as a way to have a fresh start of her relationship with him, where Yen is not a factor. This weakens her position at the Lodge, combined with their plot against Demavend, which leads us to TW2.

In TW2, Triss and Geralt have now established their relationship - how serious it is depends on player choice in TW1 and TW2 - until they find out Yen is still alive. Before they can figure things out, Triss tries to help Geralt recover his memory so they can go searching for Yen, but is kidnapped. At the end of the game, because of the knowledge that Yen is still alive and within reach, the two separate. Meanwhile, Triss has been kept in the dark regarding the Lodge's actions by them, due to her - as far as the Lodge is concerned - inconvenient relationship with Geralt, as well as Triss questioning their desire to overthrow Demavend. As a result, she is oblivious to the Lodge's plot and is incapable to prevent the Witch Hunt that takes place in TW3.

TW3 starts with Geralt and Triss separated. The player is left to choose between Triss and Yen - "divorce" with Yen and stay with his newfound love, or stay true to Yen. Whatever the case, Triss now needs to undo what the Lodge has brought upon the mages of the Continent. With the help of Dijkstra and Geralt, she manages to unite the novice mages still in Novigrad, who have been unable to escape, and leads them to safety.

On the other hand, we could assume Triss has been hiding facts from Geralt.

In that case, TW1 starts with Triss, again, taking advantage of Geralt's amnesia to form a relationship with him in order to gain influence in the Lodge - Sile and Philippa, as Triss puts it in TW2, fear Geralt. During the course of this game or in TW2, she learns that Yen is still alive (Sile in TW2, who is also part of the Lodge, is aware of this, so it might be information Triss had access to, as well) but hides this fact from Geralt, to keep him on her leash. Meanwhile, she plots together with the Lodge behind his back.

In TW2, Geralt learns that Yen is not dead, Triss goes for the last resort and tries to manipulate him with a Rose of Remembrance, as Philippa does with Saskia, but is kidnapped before she can go through with this plan. When the Lodge is tricked by Letho and their plot turns on them, Triss uses this opportunity to put the blame on Philippa and Sile, while claiming she was unaware of their schemes against Demavend. This keeps her safe from accusations of regicide, while strengthening her position as top player in the mages' schemes and not losing Geralt's trust.

In TW3, she gains the trust of the mages in Novigrad, helping them flee the city. She uses this in order to ascend to the position of royal advisor to the king of wealthy Kovir, as well as become the head of the new Council and Conclave, which is why she takes the mages there - it's part of an agreement with Tancred Thyssen, who helps with the "evacuation" of the mages, as he plans to use them as a trump card against Radovid or Nilfgaard. She again uses Geralt's feelings for her so that he will help her with this plan. Also, with the help of Dijkstra, who plots together with Triss and Thyssen to use Geralt (and his friend Roche) as a means to get Dijkstra into power at Redania. That way, Thyssen has the support of the mages as their safe haven, in the event that Radovid or Nilfgaard come on top, while, if Dijkstra succeeds, the Koviri king also has an ally in the face of Redania.

Personally, I tend to lean more towards the first theory, with some elements from the second, since Triss in the books is generally an honest person. She does get involved with the Lodge and actively helps them even in the books, however, so I think the second theory is also plausible.

Agree/disagree? Have some other thoughts on the matter? Discuss away.

 

[zappy3]

I think I would put the truth somewhere in between actually. I don't think Triss was really plotting with the lodge or trying to gain power or whatever. That being said she was definitely plotting something, only for selfish reasons.
I don't know if she knew that Yennefer was still alive in TW1 but well, Geralt was still alive so the thought should have at least crossed her mind at some point and the least we can say is that she wasn't really trying to learn more about that... She didn't mention that Yen ever existed in front of Geralt either for that matter.... In TW2 I think she is torn between her friendship with Yen and her love for Geralt. I think she wanted to look for Yen... but in the same time she knew it would mean losing Geralt and so she couldn't really decide.
In TW3 I think she is mostly being honest.

 

[xxRENEGADExx]

In that case, TW1 starts with Triss, again, taking advantage of Geralt's amnesia to form a relationship with him in order to gain influence in the Lodge - Sile and Philippa, as Triss puts it in TW2, fear Geralt.

I don't understand this part tbh. Why Sile would be afraid of Geralt? (I know that Triss mentioned this) When, in books, the Lodge had plans for Ciri - they couldn't personally harm Geralt...because it would break all their plans to gain Ciri's loyalty. But what restrictions they have now? And how Geralt can represent danger for the Lodge? That he, somehow, will discover about their organisation? He knows about the Lodge since TW1, he knows about Triss being member of the Lodge since TW1 (Radovid personally tells him this info)...

 

[Guest 3847602]

Strange thing to ask moderator, but why not discuss this in Triss thread?

All jokes aside, this is how I see her role in 3 games (I'll quote parts of your post I agree with) :

In that case, TW1 starts with Triss, again, taking advantage of Geralt's amnesia to form a relationship with him in order to gain influence in the Lodge - Sile and Philippa, as Triss puts it in TW2, fear Geralt. During the course of this game or in TW2, she learns that Yen is still alive (Sile in TW2, who is also part of the Lodge, is aware of this, so it might be information Triss had access to, as well) but hides this fact from Geralt, to keep him on her leash. Meanwhile, she plots together with the Lodge behind his back.

At some point between TW1 and 2, Philippa sensed that Triss has started to get too close to Geralt, so before she became the liability they decided to cut her off from Lodge's plans.

In TW2, Triss and Geralt have now established their relationship - how serious it is depends on player choice in TW1 and TW2 - until they find out Yen is still alive. Before they can figure things out, Triss tries to help Geralt recover his memory so they can go searching for Yen, but is kidnapped. At the end of the game, because of the knowledge that Yen is still alive and within reach, the two separate. Meanwhile, Triss has been kept in the dark regarding the Lodge's actions by them, due to her - as far as the Lodge is concerned - inconvenient relationship with Geralt, as well as Triss questioning their desire to overthrow Demavend. As a result, she is oblivious to the Lodge's plot and is incapable to prevent the Witch Hunt that takes place in TW3.

TW3 starts with Geralt and Triss separated. The player is left to choose between Triss and Yen - "divorce" with Yen and stay with his newfound love, or stay true to Yen. Whatever the case, Triss now needs to undo what the Lodge has brought upon the mages of the Continent. With the help of Dijkstra and Geralt, she manages to unite the novice mages still in Novigrad, who have been unable to escape, and leads them to safety.

It would've been interesting if there are more in-game evidence for this, but this scheme (if true) would be happening almost entirely off-screen, so I don't really buy it:

In TW3, she gains the trust of the mages in Novigrad, helping them flee the city. She uses this in order to ascend to the position of royal advisor to the king of wealthy Kovir, as well as become the head of the new Council and Conclave, which is why she takes the mages there - it's part of an agreement with Tancred Thyssen, who helps with the "evacuation" of the mages, as he plans to use them as a trump card against Radovid or Nilfgaard. She again uses Geralt's feelings for her so that he will help her with this plan. Also, with the help of Dijkstra, who plots together with Triss and Thyssen to use Geralt (and his friend Roche) as a means to get Dijkstra into power at Redania. That way, Thyssen has the support of the mages as their safe haven, in the event that Radovid or Nilfgaard come on top, while, if Dijkstra succeeds, the Koviri king also has an ally in the face of Redania.

So, long story short: manipulator - honest - honest.

 

[StandardEpiphany]

Master manipulator? Nah. Devious at times? Sure. But it comes with the territory when dealing with mages.

At heart, Triss is a good person, she just takes some time to grow a backbone. Some of the more devious things presented here (hiding the fact that Yennefer is alive, brainwashing Geralt, laying all the blame on the Lodge despite active involvement in regicides, the Tancred plot) don't jell with her overall character. She is more empathetic than most sorceresses and she does genuinely care for Geralt so I can't see her constructing such monstrous schemes around him. I do, however, find the romantic liaison she initiated with him to be exceedingly creepy and manipulative throughout his amnesia.

She is still evidently interested in climbing the social ladder and delving into politics and, given her past, it's a bone of contention. Her political ambitions and grander purposes have fucked with the main characters before so there is some residual distrust that I have towards her in that regard.

In conclusion, she's mostly alright. She became more honest and trustworthy with each game, albeit at the expense of nuance and charisma.

 

[ReptilePZ]

I think I would put the truth somewhere in between actually. I don't think Triss was really plotting with the lodge or trying to gain power or whatever. That being said she was definitely plotting something, only for selfish reasons.
I don't know if she knew that Yennefer was still alive in TW1 but well, Geralt was still alive so the thought should have at least crossed her mind at some point and the least we can say is that she wasn't really trying to learn more about that... She didn't mention that Yen ever existed in front of Geralt either for that matter.... In TW2 I think she is torn between her friendship with Yen and her love for Geralt. I think she wanted to look for Yen... but in the same time she knew it would mean losing Geralt and so she couldn't really decide.
In TW3 I think she is mostly being honest.

Master manipulator? Nah. Devious at times? Sure. But it comes with the territory when dealing with mages.

At heart, Triss is a good person, she just takes some time to grow a backbone. Some of the more devious things presented here (hiding the fact that Yennefer is alive, brainwashing Geralt, laying all the blame on the Lodge despite active involvement in regicides, the Tancred plot) don't jell with her overall character. She is more empathetic than most sorceresses and she does genuinely care for Geralt so I can't see her constructing such monstrous schemes around him. I do, however, find the romantic liaison she initiated with him to be exceedingly creepy and manipulative throughout his amnesia.

She is still evidently interested in climbing the social ladder and delving into politics and, given her past, it's a bone of contention. Her political ambitions and grander purposes have fucked with the main characters before so there is some residual distrust that I have towards her in that regard.

In conclusion, she's mostly alright. She became more honest and trustworthy with each game, albeit at the expense of nuance and charisma.

Yeah, I tend to agree, I don't think Triss has done a lot wrong - I also think she genuinely thought Yen was dead, which is why she went for Geralt in the first place, even if she was ok with him thinking she's the sorceress he felt a connection to, initially. I doubt her trying to win Geralt over goes beyond that.

And just in general, when it comes to the Lodge and her motives with helping the mages, I'm willing to believe all of that was true. But I have seen arguments that claim otherwise in the past, and what is there in the games does fit, not to mention that the player is often told by other people in the games not to trust Triss, so it is a bit suspicious.

I don't understand this part tbh. Why Sile would be afraid of Geralt? (I know that Triss mentioned this) When, in books, the Lodge had plans for Ciri - they couldn't personally harm Geralt...because it would break all their plans to gain Ciri's loyalty. But what restrictions they had now? And how Geralt can represent danger for the Lodge? That he, somehow, will discover about their organisation? He knows about the Lodge since TW1, he knows about Triss being member of the Lodge since TW1 (Radovid personally tells him this info)...

Geralt's righteous and unpredictable. Sile and Philippa have a good reason to worry that Geralt might catch on to their plans through Triss, which would not end well for them.

As for Geralt knowing about the Lodge in TW1, I think they completely retconned that for TW2, judging by everyone's reactions to the Lodge in the game.

Strange thing to ask moderator, but why not discuss this in Triss thread?

Several reasons - if we can get a good discussion going, this will hopefully go beyond Triss and more about the general scheming that's going on in TW3. I don't think that's really the focus of the general Triss thread.

It would've been interesting if there are more in-game evidence for this, but this scheme (if true) would be happening almost entirely off-screen, so I don't really buy it:

I think there's plenty of hints at it possibly happening:

We know Thyssen helped Triss with the mages, and then he just happens to want to reinstate the Council and Conclave, with Triss at its head?

Then there's Dijkstra just happening to be in contact with her, when you go looking for his treasure. He then finds out Dandelion was behind the stolen treasure, only after you tell this to Triss.

After you fail to deliver the treasure, Dijkstra not only forgives you about it and lying to him about Dandelion, but goes on to assist you and pay you. For no real reason. And that happens several times throughout the game - Dijkstra trying to win Geralt over.

He's also actively helping the mages, so he can be on good terms with Thyssen. In the books, Kovir is shown to have no desire to have either Nilfgaard or the North win the power struggle, so neither the Radovid or Nilfgaard outcome is desirable - Dijkstra's ending, with the Empire still intact and a power struggle between them and Redania is ideal for Kovir's purposes.

So, while I don't know if Triss herself was part of the scheme, I'm fairly sure that Thyssen was doing all of these things very deliberately, behind the scenes. And Dijkstra outright admits to Geralt that he's looking to get on Thyssen's good side.

I definitely would have liked to see this explored more in the game, but the focus was clearly not on the political side of the story this time around.

 

[StandardEpiphany]

Unfortunately the mage rescue/Dijkstra subplot doesn't go far. The mages are never heard of again and Dijkstra goes ahead to partake in history's most ridiculous assassination (not that I ever chose to have anything to do with it). A better written political scenario would have served Triss' characterization, added some much nedeed substance and complexity. I like the idea of her being at the center of a political upheaval because that is precisely the kind of persona I envisioned her becoming at the end of Lady of the Lake. TW1 seemed to want to go for that kind of Triss but afterwards she sort of wastes away to the point where in TW3 her political involvement is something nebulous and talked about, never elaborated on.

I want to believe the Tancred scenario, it would certainly be more exciting than the non-event that is the whole Kovir relocation, but there's not much to chew on. The same for Triss becoming the new head of the Conclave or building a new Lodge or whatever. It could have been interesting, but in its current state it isn't. Yeah, the game hints at some of these things but if nothing comes of it...

 

[dragonbird]

I'm also midway on this. I don't think that Triss was being manipulative as far as the politics were concerned, but I do think she was atttempting to manipulate Geralt in the first two games for personal reasons.

In TW1, I think she made an understandable but badly-wrong decision to take advantage of Geralt's amnesia and let him think that she was the sorceress he was in love with. I don't think this makes her evil, or a bad person, it was just a bad decision made by someone who was in love and saw an opportunity to see that love go somewhere. We don't KNOW if she knew whether or not Yen was alive, but I think there's a decent probability that she knew and went ahead anyway. So yes, I think that there was manipulation involved, in that she didn't correct Geralt's assumption, she encouraged him to "remake" himself instead of trying to find out about his past. I think she kept her involvement with the Lodge secret not because she was plotting with them, but as part of this attempt to stop Geralt finding out about Yen.

In TW2, I think that she did mean to use the Rose of Remembrance to bind Geralt to her. Again, as the act of a desperate woman who would now have been panicking slightly as Geralt was recovering his memories, and had found out about Yen. Still a bad decision, but not evil (by my definition anyway). I still don't think she did anything sinister as far as politics were concerned - I think she was lied to by Letho while a captive, and simply made the mistake of believing him, and I think that the Nilfgaardians were lying when they said that Triss had revealed information to them. They were the manipulators in TW2, not Triss.

By the end of TW2, my head-canon is that Triss's conscience had kicked-in, and, if Geralt had romanced and trusted her in TW2, that she was the one who ended the relationship. (If Geralt had been played as suspicious of her by the end, then I think he probably ended it).

In TW3, she's exactly what she seems to be, there's no manipulation or machiavellian scheming going on.

 

[Adonai-]

In TW1, I think she made an understandable but badly-wrong decision to take advantage of Geralt's amnesia and let him think that she was the sorceress he was in love with. I don't think this makes her evil, or a bad person, it was just a bad decision made by someone who was in love and saw an opportunity to see that love go somewhere. We don't KNOW if she knew whether or not Yen was alive, but I think there's a decent probability that she knew and went ahead anyway. So yes, I think that there was manipulation involved, in that she didn't correct Geralt's assumption, she encouraged him to "remake" himself instead of trying to find out about his past.

Currently replaying TW1 again and that segment - where she advises him to 'decide for yourself who you are, without looking back' and 'not take an interest in the past' - seemed sketchy, at the very least. Of course, that can also be explained away by the necessity of RPG game mechanics where player choice is important. I don't think CDPR were sure they were going to be able to make a trilogy at that point...

One thing that I'm curious about - at the beginning of Act 3, the sorceress she talks to in the mirror says "never let the witcher guess what you hide from him" - anyone know or guess what she's referring to?

 

[ReptilePZ]

One thing that I'm curious about - at the beginning of Act 3, the sorceress she talks to in the mirror says "never let the witcher guess what you hide from him" - anyone know or guess what she's referring to?

I think they're referring to the Lodge's plan to use the situation in Temeria to their benefit and get Triss into a position of royal advisor to Foltest. They let Triss feed enough information to Geralt about Salamandra in the hopes that he'll unknowingly help with the Lodge's plan, as he pursues his own goals. And the plan does succeed - Triss is Foltest's advisor at the start of TW2.

 

[dragonbird]

And I think it's that Yen is alive
I don't think that they would care about Geralt knowing about the Temeria plans, but at this stage, before the Lodge totally screws up everything with Letho, they probably prefer Geralt to be there in Temeria helping Triss rather than disappearing off to Nilfgaard to find Yen.

Of course, that can also be explained away by the necessity of RPG game mechanics where player choice is important.

Absolutely. I never had any doubt in the first playthrough that this, and the amnesia generally, was primarily about game mechanics. I still think the same. And that's also why there's no definitive answer to any of these questions, only opinions. If Geralt decides in TW2 that Triss behaved suspiciously, and that she was involved in the political shenanigans, then she probably was in that particular playthrough. All we have is our own head-canon on what makes most sense.

And in mine, she's someone who is basically a good person, but who allowed her infatuation for someone else's lover tempt her into making a couple of stupid decisions. Not a machiavellian character, or naturally manipulative.

 

[ReptilePZ]

And I think it's that Yen is alive
I don't think that they would care about Geralt knowing about the Temeria plans, but at this stage, before the Lodge totally screws up everything with Letho, they probably prefer Geralt to be there in Temeria helping Triss rather than disappearing off to Nilfgaard to find Yen.

I don't think the Lodge knows about Yen in TW1. Until Letho sets off on his mission, nobody is aware of Yen's condition.

I don't see why they wouldn't care about Geralt knowing about their plan to use him for their own ends, though. The crux of the plan is him not knowing about it, so he doesn't realise Triss is only feeding him select information, and that way they can manipulate his actions to where they are of benefit to the Lodge's goals.

 

[wright1978]

Very much in the theory 1 camp. That doesn't mean she'd an angel but to me you've got to rationalise that she believes Yen is dead as everyone does in TW1. Also i don't see Nilfgaard lodge members surrendering that information even if they did know it.
Her most problematic act is using the amnesia to try and give herself a fresh chance with Geralt as well as the rationalisation that she's acting like Yen at times in TW1 because she thinks that might make her more appealing.
Tw2 seems a simple case of her being out of the loop in regards the lodge because of Geralt and fact she now isn't compliant in regards Demavend.
I've never believed the Rose conspiracy anymore than the Lambert one. Just because a rose can be used for one purpose does not mean it can't be used for another.
TW3 seems a simple case of her being the most high profile mage at large and her genuine humanitarian desire to save other mages and alchemists.

 

[StandardEpiphany]

And I think it's that Yen is alive
I don't think that they would care about Geralt knowing about the Temeria plans, but at this stage, before the Lodge totally screws up everything with Letho, they probably prefer Geralt to be there in Temeria helping Triss rather than disappearing off to Nilfgaard to find Yen.



Absolutely. I never had any doubt in the first playthrough that this, and the amnesia generally, was primarily about game mechanics. I still think the same. And that's also why there's no definitive answer to any of these questions, only opinions. If Geralt decides in TW2 that Triss behaved suspiciously, and that she was involved in the political shenanigans, then she probably was in that particular playthrough. All we have is our own head-canon on what makes most sense.

And in mine, she's someone who is basically a good person, but who allowed her infatuation for someone else's lover tempt her into making a couple of stupid decisions. Not a machiavellian character, or naturally manipulative.

Triss does act suspiciously during the first two games because she is involved in rather dubious affairs. Both the Lodge machinations and her relationship with Geralt the amnesiac are problematic enough without going the master manipulator route. Since there is no actual evidence that she did know about Yennefer being alive and that she used the rose to brainwash him, I choose to believe that she didn't. It seems too out of character for her to do that, to Geralt and to Yennefer as well. I mean, those two used to like each other, right? And she's the one who soured the friendship through her actions, so she has no reason to want to be this shitty in regards to Yennefer. Yeah, sure, she's infatuated with Geralt, but would that desperation really turn her into such an asshole?

 

[sv3672]

In that case, TW1 starts with Triss, again, taking advantage of Geralt's amnesia to form a relationship with him in order to gain influence in the Lodge - Sile and Philippa, as Triss puts it in TW2, fear Geralt. During the course of this game or in TW2, she learns that Yen is still alive (Sile in TW2, who is also part of the Lodge, is aware of this, so it might be information Triss had access to, as well) but hides this fact from Geralt, to keep him on her leash.

Triss' actions in and after TW2 make more sense if we assume she thinks Yennefer is probably dead (or in another world and will never return), at least in the "mostly honest" case. She is willing to help Geralt's search for Yennefer with the assumption that it is unlikely to be successful, and she would be unable to stop him from searching after he found out about the past and his memories began to return. Sile might have learned about Yennefer being alive from Letho (who was contacted for the Demavend assassination), and by that time Triss was not really trusted by the Lodge.

In TW2, Geralt learns that Yen is not dead, Triss goes for the last resort and tries to manipulate him with a Rose of Remembrance, as Philippa does with Saskia, but is kidnapped before she can go through with this plan.

That theory is doubtful for a few reasons, although I do not think it is possible to prove it clearly right or wrong, maybe suspicion (but no evidence) is what the writers wanted. In any case, on this video it can be seen how Philippa uses the rose, it does not look like it is an ingredient in the potion (maybe it is there, too, there is no way to tell for sure, but nor if it would have had the same effect in Triss' potion which might have contained a different set of ingredients) - in that case it could have been used on Geralt already in the bathhouse, but it was not. Interestingly, if I recall correctly, it seems that Saskia somehow ends up under Philippa's control even on Roche's path, as the summit at Loc Muinne ends similarly, with the dragon attacking and taking Sile away. Also, the conversation in TW3 where Philippa says she lost control over Saskia suggests that the effect of the spell is temporary, which would make an attempt to use it on Geralt not only evil, but stupid as well, because I doubt there would be any chance of a relationship again after the spell wears off in a few months (at most).

Spoiler

Another, perhaps even wilder conspiracy theory is that the rose was not actually used by Philippa to control Saskia (it was the spell she cast on her that achieved that, and that is why Saskia is mind controlled even on Roche's path). Rather than that, Philippa's intention was to manipulate Geralt, since his relationship with Triss became inconvenient to the Lodge, so framing her for attempting to use magic to mind control Geralt would in Philippa's hopes have broken that relationship. This assumes she somehow found out about the rose, maybe in the "stop thinking with your vagina" conversation (either Triss simply told about it off-screen, or Philippa noticed she has the rose). Then Philippa's plan was conceived when Saskia was poisoned in Vergen, and she also knew that Geralt was searching for Triss who was somewhere nearby.

It is somewhat far fetched, but at least in character for someone as smart and manipulative as Philippa, and explains how Saskia can be mind controlled - probably without the rose - on Roche's path. It also explains the convenient coincidence that Philippa carelessly leaves behind her valuable (and possibly incriminating) book of magical recipes so that Geralt can read it. Although Geralt's character in the game never suspects anything, even after the conversation in the prison that is really suggestive, so if Philippa had a plan like that, it was not that good after all.

And I think it's that Yen is alive
I don't think that they would care about Geralt knowing about the Temeria plans, but at this stage, before the Lodge totally screws up everything with Letho, they probably prefer Geralt to be there in Temeria helping Triss rather than disappearing off to Nilfgaard to find Yen.

I think ReptilePZ's theory makes more sense, Yennefer is never mentioned by name in the game, so making her the "secret" would not really be fair to the many players who did not read the books (I guess the assumption that the majority of players did not read the books is the main reason why Geralt was made an amnesiac in the first place). Additionally, the fact that she is never mentioned for some (story-wise) unexplained reason is the only thing that makes such plot even seem viable, otherwise Geralt would find out about Yennefer anyway from other characters like Dandelion, possibly very soon, like in the drunk scene in Chapter 3.

 

[Lytha]

I am clearly in camp 2, but am willing to give in on the point that there was also affection she felt for Geralt involved when she started her scheming, not just political ambitions. She wasn't bright enough for that. (Now I am tempted to quote Philippa's line on the megascope about which body parts Triss should stop thinking with, but I think I will abstain from that.)

 

[Adonai-]

(I guess the assumption that the majority of players did not read the books is the main reason why Geralt was made an amnesiac in the first place)

That part I might disagree with - the Witcher series was/is huge in Poland, and the English-speaking market was pretty much an afterthought, not even partially addressed until the EE was released. I think his amnesia (based on what Sapkowski has said about the devs in interviews) was to allow CDPR to begin a new story rather than do a re-run of the saga.

Are any of the writers who worked on the first game still with CDPR? It'd be interesting to see what was planned and what sort of evolved by chance into storylines/characters in the later games.

Interesting thing I found on my 4th playthrough of TW2 - if you rescue Triss from the Nilfgaardians but are brusque & unsympathetic to her, she gives you more information about the Lodge and her position in it than if you're the knight in shining armour. Incredible how you need at least 4 runs through that game to get the entire story.

 

[sv3672]

The entire conversation in the Nilfgaardian camp can be found in the w2dialog.txt file posted here, search for "q304_08_meet_triss".

 

[ReptilePZ]

I am clearly in camp 2, but am willing to give in on the point that there was also affection she felt for Geralt involved when she started her scheming, not just political ambitions. She wasn't bright enough for that. (Now I am tempted to quote Philippa's line on the megascope about which body parts Triss should stop thinking with, but I think I will abstain from that.)

Yeah, I think she truly loves Geralt, and I also think she was unaware of Yen's condition until Geralt himelf started recovering his memories.

We do know for a fact, though, that her position at Foltest's court was the result of her actions together with the Lodge.

And we also know that she keeps pushing Geralt into distrusting Sile, who threatens Triss' position in the Lodge and also happens to be the ex-advisor in Kovir, which is the position Triss ends up with (as well as heading the new Council and Conclave), after she's ruined Sile's plan with the help of Geralt.

So, where I stand is: full-on scheming when it comes to the Lodge, using Geralt when she needs to, but generally has good intentions for him and Yen.

 

[zappy3]

I think ReptilePZ's theory makes more sense, Yennefer is never mentioned by name in the game, so making her the "secret" would not really be fair to the many players who did not read the books

If you think of it as a "game mechanic" thing it does make sense. However if you think of it in terms of storyline, I still don't see how Triss, once she saw that Geralt was alive, could not have thought, at least once "oh maybe Yennefer's still alive too then!" I don't say that she knew Yen was still alive, I say that she must have at some point thought it could be a possibility.