I guess they were going for a rekindling vibe. If you don't do it, it means the spark is gone. Still, an oddly petty thing to latch on to when it comes to the pursuit of a relationship. Oh well, a discussion for another time, maybe.
I guess they were going for a rekindling vibe. If you don't do it, it means the spark is gone. Still, an oddly petty thing to latch on to when it comes to the pursuit of a relationship. Oh well, a discussion for another time, maybe.
more than one sip (just re-watched this scene). I don't think that alcohol "force" her to do this, but in the same time it made her more uninhibited.
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Does she know for a fact that you've committed yourself to Yen?
I certainly know the other way the game is utterly terrible at reflecting my choice.
Well, in the same game a snowball fight can decide about life and death, so it is not that odd after all.
I doubt there are any reactions to sq202_yen_girlfriend in Triss' Novigrad quest line, but I will check again to make it sure (edit: there are none according to this post). There are some minor dialogue changes if you complete the Skellige main quests, but that is about it.
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Like what the youtuber said: "I liked her too (Triss), I thought maybe I could get her to stay but if she's petty enough not to stay just because I didn't kiss her when she was acting drunk, well, then off she goes!"
I had no idea that not kissing her it is actually important choice regarding her romance. Anyway I was just asking if you don't see faking to be drunk as sort of manipulation I got my answer we can go back to topic...
No, I meant Triss' attitude. It seems a bit off. You can profess your love to me but if you didn't kiss me that one time, well, tough luck.
But this is really getting off-topic now so I'll stop right here.
Perhaps I shouldn't do this, but I will point out that your comment comes across as rather... ahm...
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As I already explained, the kiss is a small difference, but it can be decisive because she is torn between staying or leaving (which is rationally the "right" thing to do even though it is against her feelings; this internal conflict can be seen throughout most of her quests until Now or Never). Again, like how Ciri can leave her adoptive father and (apparently) die because of refusing a snowball fight. Sometimes even a small difference like that can matter.
It would be good if we could get back to the topic. I thought I was in a different thread there for a while.
I don't believe Triss manipulated Geralt with the main goal of furthering her political career. She definitely wasn't 100% honest with Geralt regarding politics in TW1, but I don't think that is the reason she wanted to be close to him. The way I see it the manipulation done by her is mostly for more personal reasons. She definitely made some bad choices, but I feel it's mostly to pursue a relationship with Geralt. Her withholding information on Yen and Ciri(this is probably just a design decision for TW1, but let's assume it's not) is a shady move regardless of whether she knows Yen is alive or not. She took advantage of an opportunity to be with Geralt, something she wanted but could never achieve without his amnesia.
As far as the rose theory, I find it interesting and definitely plausible, it is possible that Triss feared losing Geralt and clung on to any hope of keeping him, but again I don't think she did it for any other reason then her love(or as some see it,obsession) for Geralt and the desire of not losing him. As far as the politics in TW2 goes, I believe that the Lodge kept her in the dark about most things and don't think she purposely outplayed Philippa or Sile to make her political position better. Both her and the Lodge were outplayed by Letho and Nilfgaard.
In TW3, I think she is honest. Triss undeniably has political ambitions, but I don't think she would put them before Geralt(in the books, maybe, but based on her game interpretation it is very unlikely), so the theory that she is plotting with Dijkstra and Tancred to manipulate Geralt isn't something I believe. Dijkstra and Tancred plotting I could see, maybe trying to use Triss and her close relationship with Geralt to assure his help, but I just don't see Triss doing it in collaboration with them.
In my opinion Triss, while manipulative, isn't really a master of manipulation or someone who's only been using Geralt throughout the games to secure her political gain. I think she genuinely loves Geralt and most of her manipulation is done with the goal of having him in her life. She is not an angel, and has definitely done some morally questionable stuff, but I think she is a good person regardless, especially when you look at her in context of the Witcher world, inhibited by far more devious people.
As far as the rose theory, I find it interesting and definitely plausible, it is possible that Triss feared losing Geralt and clung on to any hope of keeping him, but again I don't think she did it for any other reason then her love(or as some see it,obsession) for Geralt and the desire of not losing him. As far as the politics in TW2 goes, I believe that the Lodge kept her in the dark about most things and don't think she purposely outplayed Philippa or Sile to make her political position better. Both her and the Lodge were outplayed by Letho and Nilfgaard.
In TW3, I think she is honest. Triss undeniably has political ambitions, but I don't think she would put them before Geralt(in the books, maybe, but based on her game interpretation it is very unlikely), so the theory that she is plotting with Dijkstra and Tancred to manipulate Geralt isn't something I believe. Dijkstra and Tancred plotting I could see, maybe trying to use Triss and her close relationship with Geralt to assure his help, but I just don't see Triss doing it in collaboration with them.
In my opinion Triss, while manipulative, isn't really a master of manipulation or someone who's only been using Geralt throughout the games to secure her political gain. I think she genuinely loves Geralt and most of her manipulation is done with the goal of having him in her life. She is not an angel, and has definitely done some morally questionable stuff, but I think she is a good person regardless, especially when you look at her in context of the Witcher world, inhibited by far more devious people.
Well it's not.
Women don't tell men everything, they won't tell you about the orgy they had, they won't tell you when they cheat, they won't tell you if you're the father of their child.
It doesn't mean everything must be that serious, but they keep things from you and men keep things from them. Disgusting things, weird things, shameful things.
And yes they'll play nice to get what they want, it may not be a world wide conspiracy but it's some kind of manipulation.
I am not saying it's women only either, I am saying it's normal, therefore Triss is just a woman. Just smarter, more powerful and more involved than others.
Look at this http://disinfo.com/2011/02/one-out-of-ten-people-werent-fathered-by-the-man-they-believe-is-dad/, 10% is a huge percentage, and just one case of manipulation, a rather major one.
edit: forget about the link, the book is about disinformation LOL
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I just quoted a post to clear things up, there is no reason for me to not drop anything, nor was I holding anything to drop.
As noted before, I doubt that theory, not only for the previously mentioned reasons, but it would also be out of character. I mean, it would not only be immoral (more so than anything else before), but a bad idea in general, and in all likelihood it would not have ended well. Either Geralt would have recovered from the effects of the spell after a while (like Saskia does between TW2 and TW3), after which he would probably never want to be with her again, or Yennefer would have found them sooner or later. I do not see Triss as the "crazy ex-lover" type who would do such stupid and destructive things out of desperation, maybe contemplated doing it for a short while at most, but ultimately gave up on the idea. I think this line by Cynthia describes what may be her flaws - at least before the third game - well: "Triss Merigold, on the other hand, is talented, but she lacks determination, courage and a certain cold willfulness that seems necessary". Not telling about Geralt's past is more along the lines of that, as is getting involved in the Lodge's dealings and then not being able to decide which side to take until some point in The Witcher 2.
Triss, based on books as well as games, is one of d nicer and more naive characters in the Witcher universe and that with her crazy love for Geralt despite knowing about Yen, or perhaps knowing about Yen not being "right" for Geralt, is one of her most endearing characteristics
as far as books were concerned she might never have won Geralt, though she fights it out with Yen right till Geralt dies and even after though Ciri admonishes her and it ends there
as someone put it very beautifully in a Triss thread, CDPR saw the beauty in the Triss+Geralt angle and gave us a chance to stitch together the only "true" love story for Geralt
obviously Geralt's amnesia was a plot device and game mechanic or the thing can't hold
i haven't played too much Witcher 1 to comment, but I think Triss sounded a lot like Yennefer there
this might js b another game mechanic, as CDPR wasn't sure of even getting the game published, forget the trilogy and so might hv tried to meld the 2 heroines
or it might b, as some suggest, tht Triss deliberately played the part to bait Geralt
however it may be, her only deviousness is out of love for Geralt
i doubt she knew tht Yen was alive (only Letho and Nilfgaard knew), bt even if she did it doesn't change a thing cos, as mentioned above, she had challenged Yen right till d end of d books tht she wd get Geralt
i don't think there is much substance to any other controversy apart from the love angle
also note, if i remember correctly, that by the middle of TW2 - during the elven bathhouse scene - her conscience has already started pricking her and she suggests that Geralt should feel free to go after Yen
n here Geralt has d option of saying d most epic line in the love story where he says he doesn't know what future would bring but he would not change for Triss! something to that effect
as for the tipsy scene at Vegelbud's i think people are not following the cues of the story, of love and of the woman
poor Triss is up to her neck with the Mages' situation and trying to keep away from Geralt out of fear that he will choose Yen
the drink and the ball helps her relax after a long long time and finally her emotions surface and she goes for the kiss
manipulation? NO
wonderfully human and vulnerable in love? YES
no wonder if Geralt doesn't take the hint and avoids kissing her, it breaks her heart and she never returns
as far as books were concerned she might never have won Geralt, though she fights it out with Yen right till Geralt dies and even after though Ciri admonishes her and it ends there
as someone put it very beautifully in a Triss thread, CDPR saw the beauty in the Triss+Geralt angle and gave us a chance to stitch together the only "true" love story for Geralt
obviously Geralt's amnesia was a plot device and game mechanic or the thing can't hold
i haven't played too much Witcher 1 to comment, but I think Triss sounded a lot like Yennefer there
this might js b another game mechanic, as CDPR wasn't sure of even getting the game published, forget the trilogy and so might hv tried to meld the 2 heroines
or it might b, as some suggest, tht Triss deliberately played the part to bait Geralt
however it may be, her only deviousness is out of love for Geralt
i doubt she knew tht Yen was alive (only Letho and Nilfgaard knew), bt even if she did it doesn't change a thing cos, as mentioned above, she had challenged Yen right till d end of d books tht she wd get Geralt
i don't think there is much substance to any other controversy apart from the love angle
also note, if i remember correctly, that by the middle of TW2 - during the elven bathhouse scene - her conscience has already started pricking her and she suggests that Geralt should feel free to go after Yen
n here Geralt has d option of saying d most epic line in the love story where he says he doesn't know what future would bring but he would not change for Triss! something to that effect
as for the tipsy scene at Vegelbud's i think people are not following the cues of the story, of love and of the woman
poor Triss is up to her neck with the Mages' situation and trying to keep away from Geralt out of fear that he will choose Yen
the drink and the ball helps her relax after a long long time and finally her emotions surface and she goes for the kiss
manipulation? NO
wonderfully human and vulnerable in love? YES
no wonder if Geralt doesn't take the hint and avoids kissing her, it breaks her heart and she never returns
Triss is obsessed with Geralt, but she's also a "classical" Lodge mage: she believes that the mages should be the true rulers of the world. Although, her intentions are... humanitarian, for "the Greater Good".
Since Geralt is constantly getting involved in the history-shaping events, these two aspects are often conflicting, but as long as no harm is being done, she's using him. For example, in TW1 Geralt is already looking for Salamandra, why not rip some benefits from this fact.
So yes, she's definitely a manipulator and not a victim. Maybe only of unrequited love.
Since Geralt is constantly getting involved in the history-shaping events, these two aspects are often conflicting, but as long as no harm is being done, she's using him. For example, in TW1 Geralt is already looking for Salamandra, why not rip some benefits from this fact.
So yes, she's definitely a manipulator and not a victim. Maybe only of unrequited love.
Sile knew, which means very likely Philippa also knew. In TW3 we find out Fringilla and Keira knew too. Ida didn't seem surprised to see her alive, neither did Margarita. Is Triss the only Lodge member that didn't knew about it? If so, what reason did they have to keep this information from her? And what did Philippa mean by: "I assure you, she has not been honest with you about many other matters" ?
https://youtu.be/tE_CDAqKGuM?t=706
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No one can be sure whether Triss intended to use the rose to control Geralt, it is never explicitly said, so it will remain a speculation, but the theory is plausible based on the stuff that can be found in the game. I agree that it's immoral, and for me it is one thing I am really undecided about when it comes to Triss. When first playing TW games, despite really liking Triss, I always had a feeling she is hiding something. It was part of her appeal at first, but as she grew on me, I started trusting her more, and by the end of TW2 I definitely believed she had nothing to do with the Lodge's plans, but the rose thing remains a mystery to me. I could imagine Triss considering it, but I can't really make up my mind whether she would do it or not.
Where is it in TW3 exactly that they knew already before the end of TW2 (edit: or better yet, when Triss still had a chance to talk to Lodge members, since she is kidnapped for much of the time) ? I cannot find anything that proves that. And one can very well imagine that Sile knew only after talking to Letho, and then this information started to spread over time, but then the next point is that:
Triss: True, I'm a member of the Lodge. Just like eight other sorceresses. But if you think I'm responsible for the Lodge's actions, you're badly mistaken.
Triss: The Lodge is a theater for two actresses. Síle and Philippa have long dominated it.
Geralt: To the point where you didn't know about the murder they planned?
Triss: To the point where I was no longer invited to gatherings.
Geralt: Why?
Triss: They stopped trusting me.
Triss: The Lodge is a theater for two actresses. Síle and Philippa have long dominated it.
Geralt: To the point where you didn't know about the murder they planned?
Triss: To the point where I was no longer invited to gatherings.
Geralt: Why?
Triss: They stopped trusting me.
It could mean many things. It is not even necessarily true, since it is in a scene where Geralt has to choose if he wants to rescue Philippa or Triss. Obviously, it is in the former's interest that he does not trust the latter.
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I simply deduced - Yennefer was keeping up correspondence with her at the beginning of TW3, the content of the letter implies she already knew that Yennefer was alive (at least she wasn't surprised that the woman she considered dead was trying to reach her). Besides, Cantarella was spying on Vattier and informing Assire. It's very likely that the Lodge found out about Yennefer from Nilfgaardian sorceresses, not from Letho. As for Keira - the Witch Hunt started after TW2, she went into hiding, cut off the communication with her "sisters", therefore she must have known before TW3.
You're assuming Sile and Philippa found out about Yennefer between TW1 and 2. In my opinion, they learned about it very early in TW1 or even before the first game began (perhaps while Geralt was still the rider of the Wild Hunt). At that time they trusted Triss completely.
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