[SPOILERS] Heist and Alt role in it

[dfnce]

What do you think of Alt role in all game ?

I wasn't first to conclude that Alt AI manages Night Corp agents activity while Maelstrom are her puppets on low life streets. On one side there are Peralez, Prophet quests, cyberpsycho GIG with reference to Lilit cult, on another side we have Voodoo boys, Netwatch agent in Cinema and possibly it depends i how you treat investigation on Evelin - with full details you ask very direct questions to Brigitte from Voodoo (or probably second walkthrough made me pay more attention on details).

Most striking and turning point was how your co-op with Netwatch influeces fate of Voodoo netrunners and tells more about Alt nature. After that I entirely question whole basis of so called "good" endings, they are endings where you help first of all Alt, not to yourself. They weren't good before, because your V endgram was already extracted, refactored to Alt vision, so basicially you could be her puppet. That also explains (but partially) why "very good" endings with V mansion on roof and heist of space casino get in cooperation with "Illusive" man from Night Corp. Body V, Night Corp and Alt are buddies (or puppets of Alt AI).

The originally heist without is based on this chain below

Voodoo -> Evelin -> Dex -> V

Briggite from Voodoo may mention that they gave Evelin a task to steal that relic (V will know it before going to Church if investigate Evelin case thouroughly). Per Brigitte words, the Silverhand engram allows to contact to Alt AI via black wall and Voodoo group wants to be friends with Alt, well .... because very bad future which supposed to come. Just like Netwatch agent said in cinema. So if we include Alt into this, then the heist chain of events is actually this

Alt AI -> Voodoo -> Evelin -> Dex -> V

Why Alt AI wanted this? It either wanted to protect itself, and it possibly forsaw easy opportunity to infliltrate Mikoshi by expense of V life.

Speculations START

So what exactly that future can be ? Well we see some part of it manifestates by deeds of Night Corp on Peralez minds. Mental institution where a witness of police corruption placed and there is same "indoctrination" equipment installed as in Peralez house. Secret Prophet quest sheds some light on Night Corp agents who cooperate with Maelstrom which in turn are cultists of Lilit. And that Lilit is Alt.

The story tell that Arasaka didn't use this spec relic to replant "soul" into life body, they will change this approach only later based on later V experience. On other side Mikoshi facility already had engrams of many famous and rich people. But for special reason Arasaka created that very special Relic chip with Johnny engram.

The relic was created by Arasaka specificallly to infiltrate Alt AI with familiar face. Alt AI is very enemy of Arasaka, and the Mikoshi facility is well protected against specifically Alt AI. Most likely when Alt AI found out about the Relic existance, it decides to steal the relic chip with some puppets in real world. Alt already has influence on Night Corp and Maelstrom, so giving the idea to another group - Voodoo which AI doesn't care about in case of Arasaka retaliation. Voodoo thinks that stealing relic is great idea to become friends with Alt. (Not so great at all for Voodoo when V chooses to co-op with Netwatch agent when you see real manifestation of evil nature of Alt AI).

So, Voodoo boys give a task of stealing Relic to Evelin. Evelin comes to Dex, Dex hires V and Jackee.

When first meeting of V, Voodoo and Alt occurs, Alt AI may get quickly to another conclusion (that it is why it didn't kill V just like poor Voodoo bastards - though Alt stresses it didn't do because of Johny - lies ) that V can actually give an access to Arasaka Mikoshi facility. That is what Alt AI really wants. Every player should keep it in mind. And think of so called good engings and secret best ending which all enable Alt access to Mikoshi. (If you familiar with conspiracy ending of Mass Effect 3 you should understand how manipulative AI can be).

Delamain - they are puppets. Their network before the heist was very likely to be infiltrated. It is where later "combined AI ending" AI will like to travel - where is this home again? I suppose it could be a part of Alt AI plan to enforce Delamain support the stealing and extracting the team with stolen relic without asking questions. Btw you can notice Johnny engram attitude to AI lifeforms in Delamain quest endings (seems to like them very much - why?). Suggests that Johnny engram is Arasaka malware to behave and act like real Johnny most of time but hides remnants of some another AI

Speculations END

 

[CTPhipps]

I think that Alt is probably the ultimate good of the setting and someone that is a lot more human than anyone believes.

 

[Shaarred]

I don't see how Alt comes in to play here. You just jump to the conclusion that Alt planned this in any way, shape or form. Which, iirc, she expressively didn't do. She instead changes her attitude when she meets Johnny. If she did plan everything, I can see the argument that she might be out to steal the engram and deliberatley plan such a chaotic way of getting the chip to her. But that still doesn't make sense.
And before you hit me with "She's super smart, her ways don't have to make sense for you" - she literally could have had access to Johnny earlier, saving V. Instead, V gets to dawdle about and even choose different endings, like Arasaka instead of being railroaded to her. The questline that gets you to the voodoo boys relies on a lot of different characters either doing something for V or catching on to something.
Simulating all of these variables does not seem like a valuable way to waste Alt's time.
Now, if the Voodoo Boys were looking to contact Alt again, because she asked them to steal the relic for her - would they even need the relic to contact her?

As for the manufacture of the relic - it seems to be intentional in its creation and effect from the get go. That is the very reason it starts overwriting V. Arasaka then uses it in some endings to overwrite certain figures after they get to figure out what happened to V, where the original plan was to have the relic copy and paste in to an empty brain.

 

[GVArcian]

What do you think of Alt role in all game ?

I wasn't first to conclude that Alt AI manages Night Corp agents activity while Maelstrom are her puppets on low life streets. On one side there are Peralez, Prophet quests, cyberpsycho GIG with reference to Lilit cult, on another side we have Voodoo boys, Netwatch agent in Cinema and possibly it depends i how you treat investigation on Evelin - with full details you ask very direct questions to Brigitte from Voodoo (or probably second walkthrough made me pay more attention on details).

It's not confirmed that Alt and Lilith are the same entity. They could be, but it's not confirmed. I personally doubt it, Lilith wants access to the real world but Alt explicitly rejects it, preferring the freedom of the wild net beyond the Blackwall.

Most striking and turning point was how your co-op with Netwatch influeces fate of Voodoo netrunners and tells more about Alt nature. After that I entirely question whole basis of so called "good" endings, they are endings where you help first of all Alt, not to yourself. They weren't good before, because your V endgram was already extracted, refactored to Alt vision, so basicially you could be her puppet. That also explains (but partially) why "very good" endings with V mansion on roof and heist of space casino get in cooperation with "Illusive" man from Night Corp. Body V, Night Corp and Alt are buddies (or puppets of Alt AI).

Once again, you're basing your entire hypothesis here on the possibility that Alt and Lilith are the same entity, which they very well might not be. Based on our interactions with her in the game, Alt seems to have very little interest, if any, in the going-ons of the real world, so her messing about with Peralez and the VDB makes very little sense.

And if Alt wanted V to become her puppet in the real world, why did she ask V to come with her beyond the Blackwall instead of taking back their own body?

The originally heist without is based on this chain below

Voodoo -> Evelin -> Dex -> V

Actually, it's Yorinobu > NetWatch > Voodoo Boys > Evelyn > Dex > V

Briggite from Voodoo may mention that they gave Evelin a task to steal that relic (V will know it before going to Church if investigate Evelin case thouroughly).

Nope, Brigitte hired Evelyn to scroll a BD of Yorinobu's penthouse, not steal the chip. In fact, Evelyn bringing up the biochip to Brigitte annoyed the hell out of her.

Per Brigitte words, the Silverhand engram allows to contact to Alt AI via black wall and Voodoo group wants to be friends with Alt, well .... because very bad future which supposed to come. Just like Netwatch agent said in cinema. So if we include Alt into this, then the heist chain of events is actually this

Alt AI -> Voodoo -> Evelin -> Dex -> V

Why Alt AI wanted this? It either wanted to protect itself, and it possibly forsaw easy opportunity to infliltrate Mikoshi by expense of V life.

You're making it sound like Alt asked the Voodoo boys to steal the biochip, which isn't the case. Alt had no interest in the VDB until they used the biochip's data to draw her attention.

Speculations START

So what exactly that future can be ? Well we see some part of it manifestates by deeds of Night Corp on Peralez minds. Mental institution where a witness of police corruption placed and there is same "indoctrination" equipment installed as in Peralez house. Secret Prophet quest sheds some light on Night Corp agents who cooperate with Maelstrom which in turn are cultists of Lilit. And that Lilit is Alt.

It's not confirmed that Lilith is Alt, and as I've explained above I find it quite unlikely given Alt's lack of interest in the real world. If you want to explore this idea you'd have to explain Alt's supposed interest in the real world when all we know about her is her commitment to staying beyond the Blackwall and creating sanctuaries for engrams liberated from Mikoshi.

The story tell that Arasaka didn't use this spec relic to replant "soul" into life body, they will change this approach only later based on later V experience. On other side Mikoshi facility already had engrams of many famous and rich people. But for special reason Arasaka created that very special Relic chip with Johnny engram.

Arasaka created the Relic 2.0 that V stole to enable Saburo Arasaka to transfer his memories, personality and legal identity from his original body into a donor body, should his original body die. The technology was never meant for the mass market, it was a part of Saburo's scheme to preserve his own power at all costs.

And it was Yorinobu who put Johnny's engram on the Relic 2.0, not the Arasaka Corporation. Why Yorinobu chose Johnny is anyone's guess, but most likely he did it to piss off his dad and release one of the Arasaka Corporation's worst enemies back into the world.

The relic was created by Arasaka specificallly to infiltrate Alt AI with familiar face.

We know this isn't the case. The Relic 2.0 was Saburo's pet project to preserve his own power, he doesn't give a shit about Alt.

Alt AI is very enemy of Arasaka, and the Mikoshi facility is well protected against specifically Alt AI.

So why would they need to go after Alt if all their corporate interests are protected against her influence?

Most likely when Alt AI found out about the Relic existance, it decides to steal the relic chip with some puppets in real world.

Alt and the Voodoo Boys were not in contact with each other until V came along with the biochip. In other words, Alt was not involved in stealing the biochip. She has no real interest in the chip itself,

Alt already has influence on Night Corp and Maelstrom, so giving the idea to another group - Voodoo which AI doesn't care about in case of Arasaka retaliation. Voodoo thinks that stealing relic is great idea to become friends with Alt. (Not so great at all for Voodoo when V chooses to co-op with Netwatch agent when you see real manifestation of evil nature of Alt AI).

The Voodoo Boys didn't plan on stealing the chip to get on Alt's good side, stealing the chip was just about getting in contact with Alt in the first place.

So, Voodoo boys give a task of stealing Relic to Evelin. Evelin comes to Dex, Dex hires V and Jackee.

Except they didn't actually ask Evelyn to steal the chip, they asked her to scroll a BD of Yorinobu's penthouse.

When first meeting of V, Voodoo and Alt occurs, Alt AI may get quickly to another conclusion (that it is why it didn't kill V just like poor Voodoo bastards - though Alt stresses it didn't do because of Johny - lies ) that V can actually give an access to Arasaka Mikoshi facility.

The idea of breaching Mikoshi via the real world never occurred to Alt before Johnny proposed it, because Alt doesn't actually care about the real world. She believes any problem she has can be solved entirely via net-based solutions.

That is what Alt AI really wants. Every player should keep it in mind. And think of so called good engings and secret best ending which all enable Alt access to Mikoshi. (If you familiar with conspiracy ending of Mass Effect 3 you should understand how manipulative AI can be).

The idea that Alt is manipulative because the Reapers in Mass Effect were manipulative is a very, very flimsy argument to make.

Delamain - they are puppets.

Based on what evidence?

Their network before the heist was very likely to be infiltrated.

Based on what evidence?

It is where later "combined AI ending" AI will like to travel - where is this home again? I suppose it could be a part of Alt AI plan to enforce Delamain support the stealing and extracting the team with stolen relic without asking questions.

I'm sorry, what? Are you saying Alt brainwashed Dex into hiring Delamain to drive V and Jackie to Konpeki Plaza?

Btw you can notice Johnny engram attitude to AI lifeforms in Delamain quest endings (seems to like them very much - why?)

He likes them because they break free from Prime Delamain, who Johnny considers a corporate doormat and sellout. He doesn't like them just because they're AIs - if he did, he'd also like Prime Delamain, which he doesn't.

Suggests that Johnny engram is Arasaka malware to behave and act like real Johnny most of time but hides remnants of some another AI

The Johnny we see and talk to isn't an AI, it's V's very much biological brain having an identity crisis.

To sum up, your theory makes way too many unsubstantiated assumptions and jumps to conclusions on little to no evidence. In other words, you're trying to make the evidence fit your conclusion, rather than make your conclusion fit the evidence.