[SPOILERS] [IDEA] What do with the NET and AI's?

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This idea is based on cyberpunk (tabletop), Cyberpunk 2077 and real world research.


Background

I have a problem with how AI's are presented in fiction which is more or less anthropomorphized. Even works in the cyberpunk genre do that. There's however very good excuse for that. Based on what actual research estimates, writing about post singularity AI's is about outright impossible. Main problem is how they progress. Humans are tied to physical growth to enable more intellectual ability 1,2,3 and so on. Post singularity AI is estimated to work entire differently like 1,2,4,8,16,32... and progress happens is days, not years. No singularity level AI exists in real word so estimates are what we have.

Despite that, unless if we use some sort of workaround, like I wonder if the first Mass Effect game Geth were (science guys got boot from studio after that and series went to different direction), writing about post singularity is sort of doomed project for author and audience to begin with. How do write from point of view of IQ 400 which doesn't even share the same universe in physical sense, doesn't have needs we have and so on?

What Cyberpunk tabletop gets right, is like what I recall reading, an article from leading AI research scientist around the world and how they described their projects. How for example if they presented a scenario where there was a house, area outside house and some object. AI's task was to move object from outside house to inside house and how scientist described that AI's tend to cheat. For example in this scenario they rather move that house than object. That was interesting because while layman could easily make mistake, say cheat when they actually mean dump, leading scientists? nope.

Cyberpunk tabletop actually gets quite a few things right and has clever workaround that still enables things for players. I'm not to tabletop games like that but there are sources available in discussion here. I really recommend checking recommend reading and a video posted there for more information. (The MadQueen and Jim Morrison, well done!) And I really do appreciate setting for what it makes possible, in this context I never even though about that something like tabletop game would have approach to topic that isn't stupid. I really appreciate what Mike Pondsmith make possible here.


Note that this is just a sketch about general ideas. Player character could be V or not, a Netrunner build is not required.

1. Out and in of the NET

Player character might get involved by investigating something odd. For some reason 25 delivery trucks were ordered to certain location but they haven't returned. Turns out that those cars don't have batteries in them. Batteries are later found hooked up to something, not perhaps even powered anymore.

Background for that would be that an AI beyond the Black Wall needed that something powered up for some reason. AI's beyond Black Wall don't know and don't care that much about human side of the world and instead of coming for other solution, like ordering powerline to get connected or making order for 25 car batteries, it just solved a problem in its own indifferent way.

There are lots of possibilities far more subtle. Things being just a little awry and Street Kid may notice something weird in supply chain(s), Corpo might think something indicates that something is funny on production level and Nomad based on education may note on more general level that perhaps somethings aren't right.

Getting player more involved and going in to NET could work through factions. More about that in 2. Factions.


1.1. NET

While most distinct feature we gathered from NET in Cyberpunk 2077 was visuals and Alt. I don't necessarily would enjoy getting hung to visual aspects alone.

Other possibilities are time or rather perceived time. When we meet Alt in Cyberpunk 2077 we are communicating with her with speed of thought limiting factor being our interface. We can still notice that Alt is impatient and make educated guess that going through conversation with us is like burning lot's of cycles for little return, we are just too slow to her / it. Alt is definitely sapient. Then is Alt human... no she wasn't lying about that. Beings like that could offer a bridge.

An actual AI then. Here we could play with time and visuals. I was thinking of what could be done with computers, what Kubrick did in 2001 Space Odyssey. But encounter wouldn't be alien but an AI. We can't portray IQ 400 character but it's possible to portray something to which we are irrelevant. It's possible to portray something solving a problem but being quite messed up or corporate AI that has escaped and has totally different purpose of its own now and present scenarios. Human AI's, people whom some reason has ended up in NET could be interpreters. Player character alone in NET wouldn't be able to achieve anything alone.


1.2 Keeping it together

The tie that would keep this all together would be our reality. We have enough products with anthropomorphized AI's, limited or not. There's nothing wrong having gamey companion like Jack in Gears 5 and game being that kind of game and kids being kids.

But at the same time, I think there's time for something else too. In our country we have mandatory military service. For me that was long time ago, but I still wonder if people whom have seen something like tank going through places in real life, are the same people whom may have a fetish to that stuff. Not that friendly tank wouldn't always be a good tank, others have them too. Today we have drones and that and we are in that game because everyone else is, there's no way putting that back in the bottle, but from point of view of soldier there's nothing cute in things like Gears 5 Jack. We might also want to think of other concerns, like what mining industry is infamous for or what if we had x number of (perhaps to some degree autonomous) robots glitching and corporation that sold them to solve y number of problems, just decides to fold instead of repairing them.

Cyberpunk is very good at presenting scenarios. It doesn't judge, it doesn't preach it just shows things. I don't think CDPR writers need help here. I just hope this sort of things would be considered for future content and people are allowed to explore this topic.


2. Player character and factions

I decided to include some general idea about faction play here. I see that popping up a lot in discussions and I can't help but think that maybe I haven't understood all possible motivations people may have to ask for that kind of features.

We have Wakako telling us how she probably killed her husbands, eight(?) husbands, Padre looks like hypocrite to me and in general there are tells that may give some of us at least idea that having a normal relationship with these people is not a good idea. Game presents a lot of scenarios how gangs internal dynamics work, yet people want more connection with them. I think it's possible, but I wonder if there's also that people aren't familiar with the big city paranoia and are searching some angle to look at the world from different perspective and different context, like from the point of view of a faction.

Possible factions here could be the City, corporations, the Netwatch and the Voodoo Boys. While we already had opportunity with Voodoo boys and that may be dead end based on player decisions already, that still leaves three factions and possibility to two factions in every scenario. I guess something like that might work way better in multiple levels to enable additional perspective for players than gangs and it would also be easy to exit these factions.
 
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It's a somewhat weird complaint to make about a gaming world where the basis of AI research is largely achieved by AI that are designed to replicate human intelligences or are outright copies of human minds that have expanded.
 
It's a somewhat weird complaint to make about a gaming world where the basis of AI research is largely achieved by AI that are designed to replicate human intelligences or are outright copies of human minds that have expanded.
No I really don't care about that. Fiction can enable us to comprehend and weight different things, risks and benefits for example about things like that happened after few months after I wrote the OP: A rogue killer drone 'hunted down' a human target without being instructed to, UN report says [businessinsider.com]
 
No I really don't care about that. Fiction can enable us to comprehend and weight different things, risks and benefits for example about things like that happened after few months after I wrote the OP: A rogue killer drone 'hunted down' a human target without being instructed to, UN report says [businessinsider.com]

Yes, well it's the game setting so it's like complaining about the role of evolution in Godzilla.

I also am a Chalmer-ite in terms of consciousness. I don't believe that nonbiological intelligence is possible.
 
Yes, well it's the game setting so it's like complaining about the role of evolution in Godzilla.

I also am a Chalmer-ite in terms of consciousness. I don't believe that nonbiological intelligence is possible.
Let's see what I actually wrote:

What Cyberpunk tabletop gets right, is like what I recall reading, an article from leading AI research scientist around the world and how they described their projects. How for example if they presented a scenario where there was a house, area outside house and some object. AI's task was to move object from outside house to inside house and how scientist described that AI's tend to cheat. For example in this scenario they rather move that house than object. That was interesting because while layman could easily make mistake, say cheat when they actually mean dump, leading scientists? nope.

Cyberpunk tabletop actually gets quite a few things right and has clever workaround that still enables things for players. I'm not to tabletop games like that but there are sources available in discussion here. I really recommend checking recommend reading and a video posted there for more information. (The MadQueen and Jim Morrison, well done!) And I really do appreciate setting for what it makes possible, in this context I never even though about that something like tabletop game would have approach to topic that isn't stupid. I really appreciate what Mike Pondsmith make possible here.
So you claim me arguing criticizing and complaining about something or arguing something, I never did. This is not the first time either, in other topic you made this same thing repeatedly. You also totally ignore the topic, this is suggestions forum comment the idea, like it or not, but you are just expressing opinion about my opinion, complain about, I never did. Not the first time that happens either.

While I'm not to reading rulebooks but for suggestions like the OP I like to do research and while I link only one interview, I watched few more on the MadQueen's channel. Some with Mike Pondsmith and some with Jim Morrison, former being creator of the settings and heavily involved in production of CP 2077 and latter being know as very good expert regarding the setting and I don't see the problem here.

What comes to individual's take on topics like what is consciousness, it's a free world but don't expect anyone to take that as universal way of thinking.
 
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying too but we're getting off topic. My apologies for my misunderstanding.
 
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