Spoilers, imo the Nomad ending is the sadest and greediest ending. [Spoilers]

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I know I am cutting against the grain with this opinion, but I think the Nomad ending is the worst ending, besides the Suicide ending.

For players Romancing Judy or Panam it may seem atleast heartwarming, since we get to leave NC with our Vs Significant other. But at what cost? Was Johnny right about this decision being a bad one?

-We start a war with Milatech,Arasaka vs the Nomads.
-The Nomads say they are all for saving V and willing to risk their lives, but as Panam and Mitch say many are young and got no idea what they are getting into. Will they able be able to forgive V for Saul and the other Nomads? Or did we just help get a internal conflict going in the future?
-How many Families did V and Panam destroy in the process? On Arasaka and Militech we know there were many Civilians. Alt Soul eats them and I got the feeling some Workers got caught in the crossfire at the Construction site. What about violence in the City, afterwards we know their is chaos and the NCPD is strreched thin and probably is not able to contain it. The Gangs are probably using this time to expand their operations.
-What if we find no cure in the future? We just dragged the people we love and our new Nomad Family through a 6 month hell, while being responsible for who knows how many horrors.
 
Same. It become even more clear during Panam's call in credits. She said something "i'm busy later" like trying to keep distance from V. Guess why :giveup:
 
misty: "there is no right choice"
all finals are grimdark if you start to thinking on them

obviously nomads have plot armour
they presented in game as weak low-merc band
magically almost all of them survives after the attack on arasaka
so i'm sure that something bad never happens to them in the future

why to care about city and people to which v will never return
 
The Aldecaldos desperately need money to survive, V provides a very convenient, though dangerous, means to get that and at the same time "save" a family member which they would do for anyone of the clan.

Saul would never have agreed to it if he never seen the benefit to the clan and only seen it as the way to save V, the risk to the family would've been to much then but the benefits to the family far outweight the risks and that and not V's life is the reason he readily agrees.

Everybody knew what they were getting into and it was as much about the continued survival of the clan as much, if not more, than V's life

NCPD is stretched thin throughout the game
 
Granted, from V's standpoint is very selfish. The last thing I'd do is putting loved ones' lives in danger, specially in a pretty much suicidal mission. However, in a way the aldecaldos didn't do it entirily for V, they also made profit storming arasaka's tower, they got technology and stuff so it wasn't completely an altruistic mission.

Besides, V helped the aldecados to rescue their leader (although that task was way easier to acomplish) so somehow they are in debt with V and they made it clear to him stating they considered him as one of their own. Before V came along the aldecaldos were in a really bad shape, he helped them getting back on their feet.

Regarding the innocents lives lost during the process, well yeah shit happens, it's about survival and V was a merc, he did all kind of bad things for a living. Such were the times in a miserable place like Night City.
 
Its okay if you experience it like that. I can see how the bittersweetness makes it seem like its the worst, thats regretfully the contradictory nature this particular ending has written all over.

But some things however may not be correct or I see differently.
-We start a war with Milatech,Arasaka vs the Nomads.
*Aldecaldos would've ended up there most likely anyway as they already raid from them, with the assault on the MagLev tunne they however ended up with a lot of new raw materials and other resources that greatly increases their independend longevity.

-The Nomads say they are all for saving V and willing to risk their lives, but as Panam and Mitch say many are young and got no idea what they are getting into. Will they able be able to forgive V for Saul and the other Nomads? Or did we just help get a internal conflict going in the future?
*Even if we accept the odds are against them and many Aldecaldos members may underestimate what war with the corpo's means (which I do not believe is the case btw), they still commit their lives for family and its even in their basic rules of existence. So in worst case scenario its a brave before sensible type of thing. And then there still is the answer from above

-How many Families did V and Panam destroy in the process? On Arasaka and Militech we know there were many Civilians. Alt Soul eats them and I got the feeling some Workers got caught in the crossfire at the Construction site. What about violence in the City, afterwards we know their is chaos and the NCPD is strreched thin and probably is not able to contain it. The Gangs are probably using this time to expand their operations.
*I grant you that the war cost casualties. But who are we to say any wouldn't have died in any other conflict that may or may not have happened because of V's condition or V's actions? Also, the gangs are also still at eachothers throats. Other than the Mox each gang seem large enough to the point where they'd quell uprising with the others if they showed histile intend on or towards their turf.

-What if we find no cure in the future? We just dragged the people we love and our new Nomad Family through a 6 month hell, while being responsible for who knows how many horrors.
*I give you this one, but in my view the game is simply incomplete or unresolved. I can't however blame this particular ending for the state of the game in that regard. I would like to add though, at least its a fighting chance.
 
I know I am cutting against the grain with this opinion, but I think the Nomad ending is the worst ending, besides the Suicide ending.

For players Romancing Judy or Panam it may seem atleast heartwarming, since we get to leave NC with our Vs Significant other. But at what cost? Was Johnny right about this decision being a bad one?

-We start a war with Milatech,Arasaka vs the Nomads.
-The Nomads say they are all for saving V and willing to risk their lives, but as Panam and Mitch say many are young and got no idea what they are getting into. Will they able be able to forgive V for Saul and the other Nomads? Or did we just help get a internal conflict going in the future?
-How many Families did V and Panam destroy in the process? On Arasaka and Militech we know there were many Civilians. Alt Soul eats them and I got the feeling some Workers got caught in the crossfire at the Construction site. What about violence in the City, afterwards we know their is chaos and the NCPD is strreched thin and probably is not able to contain it. The Gangs are probably using this time to expand their operations.
-What if we find no cure in the future? We just dragged the people we love and our new Nomad Family through a 6 month hell, while being responsible for who knows how many horrors.
Exactly. I have no clue why anyone would think this is a good ending. To add insult, you backstab Takemura and he kills himself. And why do we need to kill Hanako corpo families this way? I'm an anarchist myself but this is impulsive and sociopathic, it is just a repeat of what Johnny did years ago... The corporations got even stronger. Ending a corporate colonialism would take a organized working class movement. I am not sure if they are trying to conflate this suicide run with traditional anarchism but it's not.

A saying goes "Every just killing causes 10 unjust ones"... Referring to the impact on innocent people losing their loved one.
 
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this is the only ending where I was really scared for the fate of panam
in others she is much more positive
 
1. Militech think they were attacked by the Wraiths. They are framed by Carol and Cassidy after each mission. Even Kang Tao believe they were responsible for the AV. They attack you as you leave Night City because as we are shown during the Fortunate Son side job, corps and city people do not differentiate between Nomad families, they see them as one giant faction. Once distance is put between the Aldecaldo's and Night City, the heat will die off and the Wraiths will assume all of the attention. This view of the nomads is also shown through a couple of NCPD scanner hustles that unlock as you progress Panam's storyline, as Militech ambush and kill groups of Aldecaldos and Wraiths indiscriminately, along with anyone who has ties to them.

2. You leave Night City a few weeks, possibly months after the raid having not been attacked by anybody, despite living almost ontop of the scene of the crime. The Aldecaldo's entire faction outside of Night City is far too strong to attack for the sake of retaliation, they are tens of thousands strong with tech stronger than the Basilisk, the corps know this. Panam's chapter are linking up with them in Arizona while possessing a small fortune. They are set up with the possibility to snowball into one of the strongest independent factions in America by this ending.

3. Yorinobu takes control of Arasaka and slowly assassinates everyone else in charge, Arasaka is doomed, that was Yorinobu's plan from the start. Soon there will be nothing left. This is the only ending as far as I know where this is confirmed to happen.

4. The raid was decided upon by Saul, and he chose to do it for profit to help the Aldecaldo's recover from the constant pounding from the Wraiths, many admit that if they don't pull a financial miracle out of their ass soon, this chapter of the Aldecaldo's are finished and they will have to split. Bob comments on this in depth the night before, claiming it's a suicide mission but might be the only way to save the family. You are inadvertently used for your ties with Alt just as much as you use them to find Mikoshi, Saul is well aware that without you, the raid is impossible.

5. The effect that the fallout of Mikoshi has on Night City happens in every ending except suicide and The Devil. The chaos created by the power vacuum isn't exclusive to The Star.

6. 3 Aldecaldos are confirmed to die, and from what people are saying the night before the raid, either Saul or Panam have to go because their rift is tearing the Aldecaldos apart regardless of how things seemed after the Tank mission. Alt kills far more innocents than you or the Aldecaldos once she takes control of the tower, and she is not exclusive to The Star. She is the only way that Mikoshi can fall, and without the destruction of Mikoshi, Yorinobu cannot bring Arasaka down and Saburo's engram will live on. Funnily enough, this creates a plothole as it makes no sense that Yorinobu sends Smasher after you just before Mikoshi. He really was a boss for the sake of being a boss, very poorly utilized in the story.

Every ending has a cost. Devil costs the life of Yorinobu who may have been set up as the villain initially but he is probably humanities best hope considering Saburo's plans. The Sun costs the life of Rogue. The Star costs the life of Bob and Teddy but saves the Aldecaldos, of course Saul also dies, but his death was arguably the only way the Aldecaldo's survive. This is foreshadowed by the events of Panam's questline, and by key members of the family throughout. Panam even says to V herself, that Saul is trying to lead the family like she would after the deal with Biotechnica falls through, but he doesn't know how to emulate her, only she knows her strengths and weaknesses. Had Smasher not killed him, he would of likely stepped down or left.

So overall, The Star saves the family. The Devil destroys most of humanity and The Sun kills Rogue. If you pay attention during Rogue's side missions and gigs, she is definitely one of the best hopes for Night City, several of her missions involve dealing with corrupt politicians and corpos who are bleeding the citizens dry, and she funds and organizes those gigs on her own dime, acting as client and fixer. With the exception of Nancy's son, all the clients she is confirmed to work with are Unions and herself. Rogue is severely underdeveloped as a character, but there are strings of information that paint her motives IMO to show she is still trying to make amends for bombing the tower with Johnny and then selling out to Arasaka even 50 years later.

I can see the points you made, but you must not know about The Devil to think that The Star is the saddest and most selfish, and that the Aldecaldo's raid was a selfless sacrifice to save V. The only people who attacked Arasaka for the sole purpose of saving V were Panam and possibly Mitch due to believing he owes his life to you.

Johnny is right when he says that Mikoshi must be destroyed, The Star does exactly that while saving the Aldecaldos and making them much stronger.
 
Every ending has a cost. Devil costs the life of Yorinobu who may have been set up as the villain initially but he is probably humanities best hope considering Saburo's plans.

so glad i'm not the only one who sees this :D

we were the instrument of death for the actual hero of 2077 which is yorinobu. the villain has always been saburo. that man is just straight up evil. it can be argued that he was "family-centric" as claimed by hanako because he needed the bodies of his children for maximum compatibility when his engram is eventually implanted (as mentioned by takemura on the space station)

i'm VERY surprised that johnny didnt see this in yorinobu, i guess he was just clouded by his own narcissistic thought on hating everything arasaka. i'm disappointed there was no option to side with yorinobu in any of the endings since he would have "saved humanity" as you suggested.

I don't think it was yorinobu's intention to destroy arasaka entirely, simply to remove the factions supporting the old saburo way. he was trying to "free your mind" so to speak. i don't even think he's power hungry as the game would have you believe. he simply "became the bomb" which required absolute power in order to affect change in the monolithic structure that is arasaka.

hanako, like other board members, were too wrapped up in fear of a dead man speaking from a box that she was glad to sacrifice her brother to saburo. since that would mean her own stay of execution.

yorinobu sent adam smasher after us at mikoshi because he is well aware of the fact that there were many innocent engrams down there. and having a hostile AI bent on absorbing the engrams within, he just can not allow those "people" to die. (aside from the fact that losing mikoshi would mean the total downfall of arasaka. which is not his intent. he simply wanted to purge the saburo elements from arasaka) he ALSO can not allow saburo's engram to fall into anyone's hand because he'll never be able to sleep again knowing it might someday/somehow come back and haunt him in ways he cant imagine.

who knows what other contingency plans the old man had in his back pocket. what if saburo had contingency plans which would allow him to devour an AI even as powerful as alt? afterall, arasaka had 50 years to look at the events involving alt and was able to construct custom ICE that even alt herself (as powerful as she is) was afraid of. as the saying goes, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

at the end of the day, we are technically the villain since we were the one's who directly caused the death of the hero yorinobu and we deserved our fate of death :D
 
1. Militech think they were attacked by the Wraiths. They are framed by Carol and Cassidy after each mission. Even Kang Tao believe they were responsible for the AV. They attack you as you leave Night City because as we are shown during the Fortunate Son side job, corps and city people do not differentiate between Nomad families, they see them as one giant faction. Once distance is put between the Aldecaldo's and Night City, the heat will die off and the Wraiths will assume all of the attention. This view of the nomads is also shown through a couple of NCPD scanner hustles that unlock as you progress Panam's storyline, as Militech ambush and kill groups of Aldecaldos and Wraiths indiscriminately, along with anyone who has ties to them.

2. You leave Night City a few weeks, possibly months after the raid having not been attacked by anybody, despite living almost ontop of the scene of the crime. The Aldecaldo's entire faction outside of Night City is far too strong to attack for the sake of retaliation, they are tens of thousands strong with tech stronger than the Basilisk, the corps know this. Panam's chapter are linking up with them in Arizona while possessing a small fortune. They are set up with the possibility to snowball into one of the strongest independent factions in America by this ending.

3. Yorinobu takes control of Arasaka and slowly assassinates everyone else in charge, Arasaka is doomed, that was Yorinobu's plan from the start. Soon there will be nothing left. This is the only ending as far as I know where this is confirmed to happen.

4. The raid was decided upon by Saul, and he chose to do it for profit to help the Aldecaldo's recover from the constant pounding from the Wraiths, many admit that if they don't pull a financial miracle out of their ass soon, this chapter of the Aldecaldo's are finished and they will have to split. Bob comments on this in depth the night before, claiming it's a suicide mission but might be the only way to save the family. You are inadvertently used for your ties with Alt just as much as you use them to find Mikoshi, Saul is well aware that without you, the raid is impossible.

5. The effect that the fallout of Mikoshi has on Night City happens in every ending except suicide and The Devil. The chaos created by the power vacuum isn't exclusive to The Star.

6. 3 Aldecaldos are confirmed to die, and from what people are saying the night before the raid, either Saul or Panam have to go because their rift is tearing the Aldecaldos apart regardless of how things seemed after the Tank mission. Alt kills far more innocents than you or the Aldecaldos once she takes control of the tower, and she is not exclusive to The Star. She is the only way that Mikoshi can fall, and without the destruction of Mikoshi, Yorinobu cannot bring Arasaka down and Saburo's engram will live on. Funnily enough, this creates a plothole as it makes no sense that Yorinobu sends Smasher after you just before Mikoshi. He really was a boss for the sake of being a boss, very poorly utilized in the story.

Every ending has a cost. Devil costs the life of Yorinobu who may have been set up as the villain initially but he is probably humanities best hope considering Saburo's plans. The Sun costs the life of Rogue. The Star costs the life of Bob and Teddy but saves the Aldecaldos, of course Saul also dies, but his death was arguably the only way the Aldecaldo's survive. This is foreshadowed by the events of Panam's questline, and by key members of the family throughout. Panam even says to V herself, that Saul is trying to lead the family like she would after the deal with Biotechnica falls through, but he doesn't know how to emulate her, only she knows her strengths and weaknesses. Had Smasher not killed him, he would of likely stepped down or left.

So overall, The Star saves the family. The Devil destroys most of humanity and The Sun kills Rogue. If you pay attention during Rogue's side missions and gigs, she is definitely one of the best hopes for Night City, several of her missions involve dealing with corrupt politicians and corpos who are bleeding the citizens dry, and she funds and organizes those gigs on her own dime, acting as client and fixer. With the exception of Nancy's son, all the clients she is confirmed to work with are Unions and herself. Rogue is severely underdeveloped as a character, but there are strings of information that paint her motives IMO to show she is still trying to make amends for bombing the tower with Johnny and then selling out to Arasaka even 50 years later.

I can see the points you made, but you must not know about The Devil to think that The Star is the saddest and most selfish, and that the Aldecaldo's raid was a selfless sacrifice to save V. The only people who attacked Arasaka for the sole purpose of saving V were Panam and possibly Mitch due to believing he owes his life to you.

Johnny is right when he says that Mikoshi must be destroyed, The Star does exactly that while saving the Aldecaldos and making them much stronger.
The world was already about to breakdown because of what Yorinobu was doing with Arasaka. Killing Yorinobu meant an international ceasefire. I'm not sure how letting Alt destroy Mikoshi will stop the wars and prevent another malicious entity from filling the power vacuum. How do we know she is not unleashing some cataclysm herself with the engrams she is "freeing". Wouldn't they just be wraiths of some kind.? Saburo needs to be killed and the Mikoshi project should end, but is this the right way to do it. Not sure.
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so glad i'm not the only one who sees this :D

we were the instrument of death for the actual hero of 2077 which is yorinobu. the villain has always been saburo. that man is just straight up evil. it can be argued that he was "family-centric" as claimed by hanako because he needed the bodies of his children for maximum compatibility when his engram is eventually implanted (as mentioned by takemura on the space station)

i'm VERY surprised that johnny didnt see this in yorinobu, i guess he was just clouded by his own narcissistic thought on hating everything arasaka. i'm disappointed there was no option to side with yorinobu in any of the endings since he would have "saved humanity" as you suggested.

I don't think it was yorinobu's intention to destroy arasaka entirely, simply to remove the factions supporting the old saburo way. he was trying to "free your mind" so to speak. i don't even think he's power hungry as the game would have you believe. he simply "became the bomb" which required absolute power in order to affect change in the monolithic structure that is arasaka.

hanako, like other board members, were too wrapped up in fear of a dead man speaking from a box that she was glad to sacrifice her brother to saburo. since that would mean her own stay of execution.

yorinobu sent adam smasher after us at mikoshi because he is well aware of the fact that there were many innocent engrams down there. and having a hostile AI bent on absorbing the engrams within, he just can not allow those "people" to die. (aside from the fact that losing mikoshi would mean the total downfall of arasaka. which is not his intent. he simply wanted to purge the saburo elements from arasaka) he ALSO can not allow saburo's engram to fall into anyone's hand because he'll never be able to sleep again knowing it might someday/somehow come back and haunt him in ways he cant imagine.

who knows what other contingency plans the old man had in his back pocket. what if saburo had contingency plans which would allow him to devour an AI even as powerful as alt? afterall, arasaka had 50 years to look at the events involving alt and was able to construct custom ICE that even alt herself (as powerful as she is) was afraid of. as the saying goes, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

at the end of the day, we are technically the villain since we were the one's who directly caused the death of the hero yorinobu and we deserved our fate of death :D

I don't see Yorinobu as a hero, I see him as someone who was good hearted and trying to do the right thing but fucked everything up and made a lot of things worse. He was even gonna kill his sister for some reason, that's what he was planning during the parade. Saburo is definitely evil. So is Smasher. The rest of the characters in this game are well intentioned but they all have made major flaws.
 
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The names of the endings sort of elegantly summarize what they are about. They are all tragic/bittersweet.

In the Sun ending, you become the star around which all others orbit, but they must do so at a distance, or be consumed by you. It is a lonely existence but there is a positive hint to it. In taking on the heist on Crystal Palace you come into contact with Mr Blue Eyes (who I suspect is a Nightcorp executive) so if there is a treatment for your condition, you will be the one to grasp it yourself and there will be no strings attached - no ancillary motives you must align with and rely upon. It is the ending which I think has the most promise but its one you have to reach for yourself and nobody can follow you when you do. But it is also futile. Some day you will burn out and fade away and this is inevitable. It is the natural order of things.

The star ending symbolizes this idea of a distant place where you want to be, or a point of reference in the sky to guide you home. You find a family and journey off to find your home but the journey is perilous. You will lose many loved ones on the way. I personally felt this ending was the most narratively satisfying but it has its own kind of bleakness. Your death is inevitable as in all the endings but as a nomad exile, you have the lowest chance of survival.

The star ending is sort of about coming to terms with the finality of this - acknowledging that your time is short but you choose to spend what little you have left with the people you love. The star symbolizes a kind of hopeless hope - an abandonment of your own responsibility to your self and subordinating your life to others. In so doing, you ensure it will only ever be temporary.

The devil symbolizes attachment to material things, in this case your physical body, your life, your material existence. In the sun and the star you come to terms with the idea that you will die but before you do, you want to be part of something else - a legend that will be remembered forever or a fond memory in the minds of friends or lovers, but these are immaterial things. In the devil ending, you can't let go of the flesh.

There is also this wonderful dual meaning where you pursue the objectively best opportunity to save your own life but in doing so, you must make a pact with Arasaka - a literal devil. When the treatment fails, a contract is given to you. They offer to digitize your soul, so you will achieve a kind of immortality as an engram. You will continue to exist but not on your own terms. The terms of the contract stipulate that Arasaka will own you like Facebook owns your data. You will continue to materially exist in some way, even if it is on a server in low earth orbit but your existence is no longer yours. You can choose not to sign but your pursuit of material things has left you with few friends or allies.

Johnny's ending is kind of interesting. In life Johnny was a self destructive fuck up who pushed everyone away and died spectacularly, deservedly and alone. Everyone who ever cared about him moved on or got moved on a long time ago. It is only in an engrammatic state of undeath that he learns from you the value of the things he used to use up and throw away. He resolves to quit smoking and drinking and live a different life. His ending is Temperance: moderation in thought and action - something he never had when he was alive but gained because he got a second chance from you. There is no indication that he takes this sacrifice lightly either. In a way, you continue to live on through Johnny, in his thoughts and his actions.

Sort of agree with some others in this thread that Alt is one of the most terrifying entities in all of Cyberpunk lore. A wild AI with completely unknowable motives and the power to destroy anything it touches via the net.
 
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In the Sun ending, you become the star around which all others orbit, but they must do so at a distance, or be consumed by you. It is a lonely existence but there is a positive hint to it. In taking on the heist on Crystal Palace you come into contact with Mr Blue Eyes (who I suspect is a Nightcorp executive) so if there is a treatment for your condition, you will be the one to grasp it yourself and there will be no strings attached - no ancillary motives you must align with and rely upon. It is the ending which I think has the most promise but its one you have to reach for yourself and nobody can follow you when you do. But it is also futile. Some day you will burn out and fade away and this is inevitable. It is the natural order of things.
I like how you described the endings, beautifully written! :)
 
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