[SPOILERS] Optional content: What can be learned from The Beast and Beat the Brat?

[CS554]

Some recent discussion in game length topic about replayability and old side activity discussion I remember from first months after release gave me an idea to combine things that would work for me into table below that could be used as formula for ideas that hits all the boxes in table under The Beast and Beat the Brat.

General ideas are separate this as optional, story related activities from "eat something", "play pinball" etc. that are valid suggestions for those who are interested about that sort of things, but don't contribute to replay value as alternative paths for replaying. For example, Player: "This time I'm going to do The Beast and skip Beat the Brat."

While longer explanation for "Vignettes" isn't required reading, at least for those who are familiar with jobs in question, it's important to understand that people find different kind of things rewarding and these vignettes are something very different from something that might perhaps be described as iconic.

Ideas?

	The Beast	Beat the Brat
Observations	Street racing scene exists in the Night City	Boxing scene exists
	Faction or gang backed teams and independent racers	There is street scene and pro scene
Rewards	Credits, Experience, Street Credit, possibly unique item player has practical use (a car)	Experience, skill experience (Athletics, Street Brawling), Street Credit, possibly special items player has practical use (a car and a weapon)
Other interest	Possibly welcomed distraction Insight to life in Night City via "vignettes"*	Possibly welcomed distraction Insight to life in Night City via "vignettes"*
Other notes	Short, can be partially completed/abandoned There's audience, events are social No skill experience	Short, can be partially completed/abandoned There's audience, events are social

* Vignette is something I use here in very loose sense in lack of anything better. I was thinking literature, poems, even lyrics do this, short excerpt for example:
"Funny how my memory skips
Looking over manuscripts
Of unpublished rhyme
Drinking vodka and lime"
A Hazy Shade of Winter - Simon and Garfunkel, 1966

While everything is subjective more or less, the general idea of vignettes can be said to be about describing something perhaps unique, intense, or very specific in short form.


Take Beat the Brat. Each match present different things in Night City.

The Twins are very clear indication that what is possible and how things work in Night City are bit different to our current universe.
Ceasar is just someone, he is in it for the money, we meet his wife who is pregnant, we see his car, if we complete the questline we can observe that he is the only who is just very good fighter, all the rest have enhanced abilities via genetics, cyberware, chemicals or combination of those.
Buck presents scenario where V is fighting opponents face, not only Buck but 6th Street gang and how they don't care about the rules gives yet another insight to Night City.
Rhino is someone whom the whole gang aspect of Animals might be just means to an end and who considers sports being about finding one's best performance and expanding that.
Razor has his story and it allows player to observe that pro level sports are revolve around very different ideal than what we have today and tradeoffs of being on that level. How Razor looks could be an alien and all those enhancements he have, they aren't cheap, he is in something where he needs to keep up with the upgrades and that money needs to come from somewhere. He is at the top, but also in the trap.
Ozob is a bit odd one, but there's more story for him and distraction I appreciated after Sinnerman during my first playthrough.

The Beast plays bit differently as it's has a bit different focus to begin with, but different races allows some insights. Cars, what participants talk about, 6th Street Battle Cap and fans. If V ignores Claire's request and goes for the win, some fans whom can be spotted earlier are clearly disappointed that Sampson didn't win. They weren't there for racing to begin with but for the party, which is nice touch.

 

[SigilFey]

The core idea is a good one!

The downside is production and execution.

What you're describing sounds wonderful. No activity in the game is just "a time-waster". Everything, from the main quests to mastering the most obscure mini-game will offer the player something they can't get anywhere else. Personally, I think the idea of vignettes is fantastic, but who's paying for that? Writing, storyboarding, blocking, filming, editing, and installing each vignette into the game would probably add a significant amount to the production cycle. Is it worth it? Well, I would argue yes! I think that if done well, it would endear the experience to players and get them pulled more into the world.

Alternatively, I'd go for perks. I started arguing around the time that Skyrim was released that "stats" and "skill values" really and truly have no place in games that take place in real-time. Basically, for action-based RPGs, rather than increasing the "numerical value" or a creating a "chance" for an effect to trigger or whatever...adding a point to something should introduce new things that the player can do: a new type of attack...a new way of traversing the world...a new way of interacting with the environment. Nothing passive -- all active. Therefore, as a "tangible" reward for finishing a side-quest or challenge of some sort, the game could offer a skill or perk that is not available any other way.

 

[CS554]

The core idea is a good one!

The downside is production and execution.

What you're describing sounds wonderful. No activity in the game is just "a time-waster". Everything, from the main quests to mastering the most obscure mini-game will offer the player something they can't get anywhere else. Personally, I think the idea of vignettes is fantastic, but who's paying for that? Writing, storyboarding, blocking, filming, editing, and installing each vignette into the game would probably add a significant amount to the production cycle. Is it worth it? Well, I would argue yes! I think that if done well, it would endear the experience to players and get them pulled more into the world.

I didn't thought that every side activity would need to be like this, but rather alternate to trend in games where players get all sort of trinkets and such from completing something. During Covid I tried all sort of games via MS Game Pass and I can understand the appeal of certain things, but it just doesn't work for everyone. There was this one game, it had even sound effects and screen shake when unlocking something, it was hilarious moment, but I don't even remember what game it was because at that point I uninstalled.

After my second playthrough I started thinking about what made CP 2077 so different, I never finished the Watchdogs. And then when I was reading game length discussion it came to me, why sometimes less is more. Side activities in games often appear to be copy-paste jobs and offer something to do, perhaps there's achievement for completing all of them, other rewards like weapons or skins, but for most part they tend to feel artificial and cheap way to extend play time. Beat the Brat and The Beast were something entirely different, player can complete them to gain access to weapons or just for completion sake, or to try something different but they have this quality also being these "vignettes". They are also very different from design approach where everything should be somehow "iconic".

Not everything needs to be a vignette and that may not be even productive in a game like CP 2077. I believe that people ability to track and connect with NPC's is also limited by what is called a Dunbar's number. Same could be said about media in general. Book with 100 major characters can be written, but reading that might feel more like a job than entertainment.

Justification production, I don't know CDPR just did it and maybe they didn't thought about it like this at all, but what they did works. What is rewarding is that these little interconnected insights into Night City, they work very well in context of game and contribute to other discoveries where we move on other side of line of that and this reality. Sport should be about finding one's limits as homo-sapiens and character like Razor are antithesis of that. So what we call sports may become just to be a form of entertainment that has no connection to what ordinary Joe and Jane can do, something so disconnected from basic homo-sapiens, that it doesn't even activate people anymore to do their own things, but a freak show people passively watch, impossible ideals.

And it may look like awfully amount of things, but vignette's aren't goal per se, but well enough established world creates opportunities to insert them.

Alternatively, I'd go for perks. I started arguing around the time that Skyrim was released that "stats" and "skill values" really and truly have no place in games that take place in real-time. Basically, for action-based RPGs, rather than increasing the "numerical value" or a creating a "chance" for an effect to trigger or whatever...adding a point to something should introduce new things that the player can do: a new type of attack...a new way of traversing the world...a new way of interacting with the environment. Nothing passive -- all active. Therefore, as a "tangible" reward for finishing a side-quest or challenge of some sort, the game could offer a skill or perk that is not available any other way.

I never played Skyrim but in CP 2077 I'm against this. Lot of players would be motivated to do things they don't really enjoy just to get a special perk, perk would become iconic. It kinda doesn't fit in with how vignette's work in general. If you check whole lyrics for A Hazy Shade of Winter, it's like seasons but actually about something else, it has it's own value as itself. In context of CP 2077, there were nothing about characters we meet during Beat the Brat or Beast in ending phone calls, and there's no need to. I remember them just fine and their slice of what Night City is. There is one limit and that is, not to make them content for 1-5% and in CP 2077 it's Skill Experience, so people don't complete things to stand still, as that would be counterproductive use of time when for most people, there are limits how much they can and are willing to spend to do something that doesn't contribute ultimate goal, that is becoming the best V at level 25+ that can complete the game story.

 

[Don_the_brawler]

If I learned anything from the beast missions. I wouldn't like Claire. If I were in V's place I'd be pretty upset to find out she's using V to settle a petty score. Her husband died in a race in Night City. Sad... Its almost as if the races are... dangerous? I didn't bust my butt getting first place in every race for some silly revenge plot. Honestly. I'd just find another ride along. I don't need Claire and, she wasn't even that useful anyways. Gimme Panam as a ride along! Heck! I'd take River or Judy! I hate that V can no longer race after that lame final race.

It would be cool if the races could be radiant side quests so I can race more often. Same with brawling! I wanna brawl other brawlers. I wanna battle one on one fist fights. Instead I just gotta be contempt with fist fighting multiple people armed with guns hiding behind barriers and on balconies like scared little children.

Be cool if brawler could rip the gun out someone's hand and beat them with it or throw the gun out of reach.

Funnily enough. I like plot twists so i guess I kinda like Claire's revenge option. I spared Sampson and got both vehicles cause haha!

The one thing Claire did right was remember Jackie's drink correctly. Respect.

It would be cool if police persued you so I could get a little satisfaction in driving. As it stands now, driving is super boring. I parkour everywhere I go. That's a little fun. I like that. Make driving fun Cyberpunk. The only reason I drive is need for speed, listen to music, and when missions tell me to.

Thankyou for listening to my Ted talk.