**Spoilers** Panam Vs Judy **Spoilers**

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Honestly the replies I'm seeing if almost identical to how someone would react when a dear friend tells them their girlfriend is bad for them and has serious mental issues. You people are being way to defensive and excusing behavior that you would not tolerate in others. It's the classic situation of how dare anyone say anything bad about the person I like.

Maybe in a DLC they will show other sides but the evidence is overwhelming that Panam has serious issues. And what was also clear is when no one could actually refute the behavior excuses were made. That's called enabling.

Anyway I've said my piece and you've said your piece. The good thing it's just a game and you won't actually have to live with someone like Panam in the real world.

FYI : This is my only response to you .

I disagree with everything you said. I even disagree with the whole premise of every post of yours in this thread.

There is nothing wrong with her or her behavior she has FIRE SPIRIT and PASSION. All great quality's.

I believe going along with Panam in every instance is the best plan from Nash to the Basilisk is the right thing to do Its the best thing to do you don't want a snake like Nash getting away they deserved to die and they need that basilisk and all other choices and reactions were correct as well.

Why do you think even SAUL made her co leader . He finally figured out she was right all along.

if you disagree with her you deserve what you get period.

Saul is a coward and a cooperate sell out scared of the wraiths millitech, and everything else and has no business leading the Aldecados and deserved to be yelled at every time. As does V with any of the other answers

Her end call was the best , it was clear and decisive not allowing any bull**** from V.

Personally I would love to find a "PANAM" or a " YEN " IN REAL LIFE! . In my Both those are blueprints of what in real life what women should aspire to be .
 
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Some people are just too sensitive for Panam :shrug: That's okay though

totally agree with this . Alot expect women to be " betas" and to be honest a lot are . I find that completely unattractive.

Unfortunately seem to be cursed in finding all of them in real life.

Yen Panam and a lot of the strong women you find as prominent main characters ( Miranda and Ashley is another one) in video games to me are what a "real woman " should be.

Its sad how writers in video games can create women that are more appealing to me than women I meet in real life.

( no i don't find the "professional acting alphas in leather on adult sites " attractive either )

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:cool::shrug:
 
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You misunderstood. I am fine if people don't like what I do. Hell, that's just life.

Also literally no one here is refuting she has anger management problem. The only thing being refuted is the way you tried to convey some of those arguments (along with some facts being set straight), is all. Ain't nothing "enabling" about that. ;)

But yeah, sorry if I came out sounding a bit abrasive. Was a bit of a long day for me, and I may have been a bit cranky.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Panam as a character is fine. People are flawed and not perfect. I have no issue with her being a character in the game. In some ways she's like Rogue.

I just can't see me romancing someone like that. During the Yen vs. Triss wars people pointed out that Yennefer was selfish. Personally, I had no preference and did multiple runs picking one or the other and even both. My final run picked Yennefer.

To me CDPR wanted a Yennefer type female character but I think they pushed it too far in this case. What would have been much better is if they had additional dialogue and scenes of Panam being a nicer person to balance out the other scenes. IMO if they did that then I could see romancing her.

Finally, I think CDPR did a terrible job of the whole romance scene with her. A very short scene in the tank. All the other scenes were much longer and better. A more longer lasting tender and loving scene would have really helped.
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FYI : This is my only response to you .

I disagree with everything you said. I even disagree with the whole premise of every post of yours in this thread.

There is nothing wrong with her or her behavior she has FIRE SPIRIT and PASSION. All great quality's.

One piece of advice. Red on black to those with some color blindness is a very bad choice.
 
I like both a lot. Their traits, the traits of all the LIs seem pretty stereotypically based around the target audience. Panam is super hot, ride or die, and a little bit broken. Judy is a lot deeper and her quests are more emotional, she's more passive and is more vulnerable than broken. River is all gruff and immediately wants to settle down and Kerry is arrogant and distant(and really poorly conceived in general. poor gay V). That this discussion has provoked such passionate responses regarding the ladies is a testament to the success of the devs. I was genuinely invested in both quest lines right up until we consummated our relationship and it apparently quit mattering to all LIs except Panam, and even then it's just the ending. I expect a lot more relationship material when the cut content starts making its way into the game(fingers crossed).

Panam has the more fun quests and a lot more content. She's also the only love interest that's remotely useful, which I hope is just a matter of rushing the game out and some forthcoming content humanizes River and Kerry a little and gives us some endings where we have more faculty.

I'm a bit confused why the only relationships that matter to the end of the game are Panam and Johnny, and to a lesser degree Rogue. Why did I spend all this time helping fixers with random stuff and forging relationships with people with various skills? Between Judy, River, Panam, and Kerry you could make a pretty solid group regardless of the V build.
 
Although one thing that I didn't see in either of them that is pretty much the number one thing in someone with BPD is the overwhelming fear of abandonment/being abandoned.

Yeah, thats true. Thats why i wrote "Borderlinish" (but i don´t know if this is an actual word lol)
To me, every person who makes more drama than necsessary + unnecssary accusations of any kind, are Borderlinish in my opinion.
Panem is ok and more likeabla than Judy imo. Altough she is a huge troublemaker and when she wants something, she does everything to get it.
Judy on the other hand is often b*tching, even when you are helping her. Everything must go, like SHE wants it to.
In real life i had one semi relationship with an Narcistic Borderliner but i used the Handbrake before it went serious. And a real relationship with a Borderlinish Person.
And both, Panem and Judy reminds me of them.
 
Yeah, thats true. Thats why i wrote "Borderlinish" (but i don´t know if this is an actual word lol)
To me, every person who makes more drama than necsessary + unnecssary accusations of any kind, are Borderlinish in my opinion.
Panem is ok and more likeabla than Judy imo. Altough she is a huge troublemaker and when she wants something, she does everything to get it.
Judy on the other hand is often b*tching, even when you are helping her. Everything must go, like SHE wants it to.
In real life i had one semi relationship with an Narcistic Borderliner but i used the Handbrake before it went serious. And a real relationship with a Borderlinish Person.
And both, Panem and Judy reminds me of them.
Yea I understand where you're coming from, I too had a relationship with someone with BPD and potentially NPD, just that one experience alone was enough to make me do a double take on everyone and always have me on high alert when anything even remotely reminds me of those behaviours.
 
Honestly the replies I'm seeing if almost identical to how someone would react when a dear friend tells them their girlfriend is bad for them and has serious mental issues. You people are being way to defensive and excusing behavior that you would not tolerate in others. It's the classic situation of how dare anyone say anything bad about the person I like.

Eh not really. Panam still has her flaws, as does Judy. I never said they were perfect. They're objectively flawed.

I just think Panam's strengths vastly outnumber her weaknesses (and some people tend to focus solely on the weaknesses).

But let's just agree to disagree.
 
Some people are just too sensitive for Panam :shrug: That's okay though


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I don't think Panam is a bad character.. But I have a feeling that I would never have a relationship with her in real life. To much trouble with her - despite her energy and mind. Too much power in Panam to have a decent quiet life. She would bring chaos.
My oh my, she's attractive and all, but that's not the most important thing in the end when it comes to relationships in my world.
I've had my share of girlfriends and wives. Believe me.
 
A female can be strong and still like able Panam is neither. Panam is NOT like able. She is a self-centered, argumentative, selfish person. Yelling and screaming does not make you a strong person.

Panam gets into arguments and yells all the time if anyone disagrees with her. Most of the time it's Saul but she does this to Mitch and the other veterans. And she does it to V. Pick some of the options where you disagree with her and watch her reactions.

What is super clear is the endings. Watch what she says in the suicide ending. How can anyone defend that.

Let me ask one simple question for any Panam defender. You have a close friend, family member etc. they are terminal with maybe days left to live and in great pain. Would you curse them to hell if they committed suicide? that is the reaction of a self-centered person that has no empathy.

This is an unpopular take but I kinda agree. I didn't connect with her character that much. It might just be a personal preference. The suicide ending I took it as her as a strong person trying to put up a tough girl persona type of thing to not get hurt and putting up a front. She is a nuanced character like much of the others. I kinda see what they were going for with her character.
 
Panam as a character is fine. People are flawed and not perfect. I have no issue with her being a character in the game. In some ways she's like Rogue.

I just can't see me romancing someone like that. During the Yen vs. Triss wars people pointed out that Yennefer was selfish. Personally, I had no preference and did multiple runs picking one or the other and even both. My final run picked Yennefer.

To me CDPR wanted a Yennefer type female character but I think they pushed it too far in this case. What would have been much better is if they had additional dialogue and scenes of Panam being a nicer person to balance out the other scenes. IMO if they did that then I could see romancing her.

Finally, I think CDPR did a terrible job of the whole romance scene with her. A very short scene in the tank. All the other scenes were much longer and better. A more longer lasting tender and loving scene would have really helped.
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One piece of advice. Red on black to those with some color blindness is a very bad choice.

Yeah, like I said: That's completely fine if you feel that way about her.

I agree that she could have probably used a better romance scene (although I personally liked it for its novelty and the whole idea of neurally connecting to your partner, which is as cyberpunk as it gets IMHO), but disagree that she didn't have enough "nice person" kind of interactions. There was the motel, the cottage, the campfire, the shared night moment before you assault Arasaka, her entire epilogue segment etc. etc.

I felt it was perfectly balanced out with her hotheaded moments, and she frequently showed her much nicer and playful side too (her romance just amplified these for me). But that's just how I saw it.

I will however agree that she needs overall more content. As do other characters, really.
 
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There was the motel, the cottage, the campfire, the shared night moment before you assault Arasaka, her entire epilogue segment etc. etc.

I felt it was perfectly balanced out with her hotheaded moments, and she frequently showed her much nicer and playful side too (her romance just amplified these moments for me). But that's just how I saw it.

I will however agree that she needs overall more content. As do other characters, really.

I agree. I feel like most people overlook all the sentimental moments, perhaps because they're playing Fem V? Or maybe they're too focused on the sex? :shrug:

Even the back and forth text messages you send to her (Male V Romance) throughout the game reveal the softer/sentimental side of her character. Panam is a character that generally struggles at being sentimental. She represses these thoughts (this is implied in her text messages). So when you see her opening up like this throughout the game it reveals another side of her.

Her end credits (The Star/Male V Romance) was very wholesome as well. Not only did she acknowledge the leadership challenges of being a chief, but she genuinely showed her appreciation for V and the positive effects he had on her life.

Is Panam a flawed character? Absolutely, as are most in Night City. But it's the combination of her flaws and her strengths, and seeing the impact V has on her that makes her my favorite character by far.
 
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Please stay on topic - This is about Judy and Panam's personality and Romance arc

Please.
NO POSTS ABOUT SEXUAL PREFERANCE
NO POSTS ABOUT IN GAME AVAILABLITY

Thank you.


The Witcher series had Yen Vs Triss I think the devs have replicated that in CP with Panam Vs Judy

I just completed my 2 full playthrough (completed most of the side quests both times )

I have to say before the launch I was team Judy after playing though both romances, I have to admit I switched to Team Panam.

I enjoyed Panam's personally a lot more than I enjoyed Judy's but the actual content was not up to Witcher 2 or 3 standards.

W2 You see Triss lying naked on the bed W3 you see them both more naked than you see t Judy or Panam

FYI I was always on TEAM YEN.

I Like Panam and Yen more because they DO NOT fall for the male superiority complex or the Males are always the alpha and take control of the relationship which I find very attractive.

Just look how Yen stand up to Geralt and Panam stands up to Saul. Triss and Judy seem very "weak" personally in comparison. I have never been attracted in real life to women who are always depending on the "man " to control everything, to initiate everything and always be the "driver" in the relationship.

The way Panam handles Scorp's death is a lot better than the way Judy handled Eve's

I Don't think they go Fair treatment however.

- the actual content of Panam 's romance is a lot shorter and less detailed.

- there is no casual hangout "at home" like in Judy's cut scene

- You never really see Panam in any other outfit / shoes it's just jacket and no jacket.

- It would have been nice to see Panam hanging out in a tent in the same sort of clothes that ( bra /shirt shorts / panties) you see Judy in

-Would have been a perfect opportunity tie in when they first met and give her a foot massage saying . " I owned you this from that night on the farm" that would have been awesome

-they live in a very small close nit community it would have been a nice touch to have people commenting / gossiping about it in the back ground and some comments right to both of them to give it a more "family/ friends " atmosphere.

the love cut scene
- was disjointed,
- hard to see
- the night vison made it worse
- The camera work pacing was too fast
-ended abruptly ( also how did Panam get fully dressed so fast ? I mean we were fight the whole time and her clothes were probably all over the place.)

Don't get me wrong It was a great concept for "impulse moment " should have always been in the game .

It would have been a disservice not to take advantage of it, but they should have had a more relaxed scene later on in a tent somewhere or even parted on a cliff somewhere in the back of cargo bed of pickup. I mean even Panam said it was too short so the devs were aware.

So, in terms of best romance for content Judy does win

But for me just like Yen won in the Witcher Panam takes the #1 spot with me for best girlfriend.

I am hoping they will improve the existing romances and add new ones as the DLC come out.
Can you link me that cut scene with judy? can't find anything about it on the web :<
 
Not really sure why Panam vs Judy is a thing, they don't compete for V like Yen and Triss did for Geralt. It isn't a choice lol

I just can't see me romancing someone like that. During the Yen vs. Triss wars people pointed out that Yennefer was selfish. Personally, I had no preference and did multiple runs picking one or the other and even both. My final run picked Yennefer.

To me CDPR wanted a Yennefer type female character but I think they pushed it too far in this case. What would have been much better is if they had additional dialogue and scenes of Panam being a nicer person to balance out the other scenes. IMO if they did that then I could see romancing her.
Yen is perfect for Geralt, Djinn magic aside. They have compatible flaws, and Triss is a 'nicer' person but she isn't right for Geralt.

Finally, I think CDPR did a terrible job of the whole romance scene with her. A very short scene in the tank. All the other scenes were much longer and better. A more longer lasting tender and loving scene would have really helped.

Agreed, all sex scenes except Judy and River's were kinda cringy, Karma sutra must be a corpo best seller in 2077 lol. Conceptually the tank scene is well thought out though, but it was executed so, so poorly.
 
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