[SPOILERS] Smuggling runs

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Guest 3847602

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It's fun for a whole lot of 5 minutes.
For you it is, for me it is. Not sure about the average GTA fanatic.
Yes, GTA makes it in such a way that you can survive but to say there are benefits to going on a rampage is completely false. It is meant to kill you, period. If you survive and manage to evade the police, good for you but the system isn't designed to reward you, it is meant to kill you.
Fun is the reward (at least to the people who enjoy this thing). And the game doesn't want to be too strict to get in the way of "fun".
No, you could potentially role play as a psycho (cyberpsycho maybe?) or a terrorist ior an anarchist who hates the police/government/institutions in an extremely serious role playing game. The villain role is present in almost all table top RPGs and unluckily in real life too.
And I'd be fine with it as long as there are realistic consequences for that. You wanna play as a psycho? Fine, but say goodbye to fixers, gigs and most of the story-relevant characters. Say hello to MaxTac.
 
For you it is, for me it is. Not sure about the average GTA fanatic.

I am absolutely certain the average GTA ''fanatic'' isn't constantly in a state of rampage. With the newest game being online too it's pretty easy to get a measure of it too. Most people spend their time doing missions and activities. There is a reason Rockstar adds new missions/activities to the game.

Fun is the reward (at least to the people who enjoy this thing). And the game doesn't want to be too strict to get in the way of "fun".

Fun is the reward - for those who enjoy this - so if the reward is VERY subjective how is the system built from the ground up to give ''benefits''?

Furthermore, what's your issue with people having fun? If the system is there and you have no interest in it, don't interact with it? Having a decent police system in CP2077 wouldn't force you to interact with it. What's your issue with people deciding how they want to play their game.

This is sounding increasingly like ''I want people to enjoy the game MY way''
And I'd be fine with it as long as there are realistic consequences for that. You wanna play as a psycho? Fine, but say goodbye to fixers, gigs and most of the story-relevant characters. Say hello to MaxTac.

Then you die, reload and life goes on.
 

Guest 3847602

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This is sounding increasingly like ''I want people to enjoy the game MY way''
I've already explained on the previous page what kind of police system I'd like to see. I want that one and I don't want the one from GTA. I don't think GTA gameplay fits Cyberpunk any more than what we currently have. There can't be two (or more) separate police systems to choose from in game's settings so that everyone can get what they want.
 
I've already explained on the previous page what kind of police system I'd like to see. I want that one and I don't want the one from GTA. I don't think GTA gameplay fits Cyberpunk any more than what we currently have. There can't be two (or more) separate police systems to choose from in game's settings so that everyone can get what they want.

I know you did, the question still stands.

Why not? The system, per your own words, would not affect you in the slightest. You keep playing the game the exact same way. Your experience would not be affected at all.

Why is people enjoying the game their way such an issue for you? I'd rather have something different than GTA's system in CP2077 myself but if that's exactly what was added... I can just ignore it.
 

Guest 3847602

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I know you did, the question still stands.

Why not? The system, per your own words, would not affect you in the slightest. You keep playing the game the exact same way. Your experience would not be affected at all.

Why is people enjoying the game their way such an issue for you? I'd rather have something different than GTA's system in CP2077 myself but if that's exactly what was added... I can just ignore it.
Because I didn't buy GTA game and developers have repeatedly assured us that they're not making the game similar to GTA. Because, If CDPR wants to fix the police system, they should not be looking at GTA, but at Cyberpunk's own lore. Because it is stupid to ignore the rules of your own setting to appease the fans of some completely unrelated game.
 
Because I didn't buy GTA game and developers have repeatedly assured us that they're not making the game similar to GTA. Because, If CDPR wants to fix the police system, they should not be looking at GTA, but at Cyberpunk's own lore. Because it is stupid to ignore the rules of your own setting to appease the fans of some completely unrelated game.

So them adding a system that would not affect you in any way would suddenly negate everything else you enjoy about the game? Is that what you're trying to say?

Because that's essentially what you're saying here. A system you already do not interact with would ruin the game for you if it was changed.

I'm trying to understand the logic here.
 

Guest 3847602

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So them adding a system that would not affect you in any way would suddenly negate everything else you enjoy about the game? Is that what you're trying to say?

Because that's essentially what you're saying here. A system you already do not interact with would ruin the game for you if it was changed.

I'm trying to understand the logic here.
To put it as simply as possible: I don't want GTA logic in this game, I don't want lightsabers, I don't want Ciri. Regardless of whether I can avoid seeing them or not. Cyberpunk should be Cyberpunk, not GTA, Star Wars or Witcher.
 
To put it as simply as possible: I don't want GTA logic in this game, I don't want lightsabers, I don't want Ciri. Regardless of whether I can avoid seeing them or not. Cyberpunk should be Cyberpunk, not GTA, Star Wars or Witcher.

Fair enough.

I don't understand this wanting to control what others do, or want to do, with their game if it doesn't affect you at all and I decidedly disagree with it but if that's your position, that's your position.

Let's end this argument.
 
So them adding a system that would not affect you in any way would suddenly negate everything else you enjoy about the game? Is that what you're trying to say?

Because that's essentially what you're saying here. A system you already do not interact with would ruin the game for you if it was changed.

I'm trying to understand the logic here.
I speak for me (because I don't care about Police System in games generally even in GTA) and I don't really what CDPR want to do, but in short I think the idea is :
CDPR don't care about GTA's police system, even if it could please some (many) players.
In the same way that CDPR don't care about third person view even if it could please some (many) players.

NPCD is not here for have fun with them, just to punish you. It's probably not as "good" as CDPR wanted (even certain), but I think it will remains "a punishement" anyway, even if it deplease some (many) players.

But if a "good" mod tool is released one day, who know :)
 
I speak for me (because I don't care about Police System in games generally even in GTA) and I don't really what CDPR want to do, but in short I think the idea is :
CDPR don't care about GTA's police system, even if it could please some (many) players.
In the same way that CDPR don't care about third person view even if it could please some (many) players.

NPCD is not here for have fun with them, just to punish you. It's probably not as "good" as CDPR wanted (even certain), but I think it will remains "a punishement" anyway, even if it deplease some (many) players.

You say you think they don't care about it, personally, I don't think that's it. I think it has more to do with a lack of experience with this kind of system. GTA and it's police system weren't done overnight. It was careful and rather incremental updates over multiple games and decades that made it into what it is today.

But I do agree with you that they meant it as punishment and that it should remain so. All I'm saying is that even if they did change their mind and wanted to make it "fun" by creating a carbon copy of GTA's system, it wouldn't change anything in my life. I'd simply not interact with it the way I currently do right now unless it's forced upon me. I wouldn't it consider any more "fun" than I do the current system in place. If other people are getting a better experience without impacting my experience, I don't see the harm in that.
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But if a "good" mod tool is released one day, who know :)

You added this bit after I answered. Yes! Most definitely. Modders have already improved (well added really) car chases with police. With decent tools, we'd definitely see some major improvements there.

Still, that would leave console users in the dust and even as a PC user myself I think that's sad.
 
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Still, that would leave console users in dust and even as a PC user myself I think that's sad.
Yep, mods would unlikely come on console :(
(But I think consoles players are habit to play games like they are released... No way to change that)

Already make the police system more realist could be a good step. I don't know, like instead of spawning nearby you (even far enough), to be dropped by AVs (or spawning Cops in cars out of view range) could be a big improvements in my opinion :)
But like they said in the stream before the 1.3, they will improve this kind of things by "little" steps (like the NPC AI or car AI. It's a little bit better in 1.3 than 1.2 and will be a little bit better in 1.4 than 1.3, until to reach the final "good" state...)
Useless to hope a huge improvment directly :)

In 1.3+, I didn't even been aggro by NPCD during the events (it always happened before). So there is already a little step here :)
 
My main issue with threads about "improving police systems" is that if a system like this (I apologize for self-quoting) its implemented-other people proposed similar stuff on other threads I believe-:
This would have been a good system in cp2077 for police: you hit 0 points humanity MaxTac appears and 1 shots you.
Just add humanity as an attribute at character creation that you cannot recover when leveling, but you can lose by killing "non-mission targets"-killing a cop, in cold blood in the middle of the street not involved in a mission should be punished i think-with perhaps some quests (free helping NPCs, there are few of them) that allow to recover some. Remove spawning cops,just fixed control posts(they don't have budget anymore for patrols) without reinforcements.
This adds a mechanic that respects lore and allows player freedom with some margin (say humanity minimum 3 at character creation,10 maximum,5 "non-hostile kills cost you a point of humanity, between 15 to 50 innocents killed...i doubt i killed by accident more than five, but give some freedom).
Its a system that : fits in-game lore (just look at NCPD shards about how is the status of the police force), it respects the original IP intend (Rtalsorian Cyberpunk, not another Cyberpunk derivative), it eliminates "immersion breaking" teleporting stuff-hit 0 empathy,cutscene to Max Tac killing you- and still allows players to manage somehow carnage or live with honest mistakes without relying on running like hell.

i suspect, that if that is ever implemented I will still read people asking for police car chases. Which is very curious, because the reasoning is cops+cars=chases compulsory... I wonder if since CP2077 has attributes,skills and perks we should ask any other games with cops+cars+avatar that can do stuff outside the car to include those mechanics?(following the logic that if a past game had that mechanic, your game that looks superficially similar should include at least the same mechanic)
 
Which is very curious, because the reasoning is cops+cars=chases compulsory...

No, the reasoning is that there is literally no universe in which it makes sense that I can stop my vehicle next to a cop car with a or multiple cops inside, commit a crime and the only reaction is the cops coming out of their car to shoot at me.

I can get back in my vehicle and drive away and their only reaction will be "Chase after this car until you kill the driver... ON FOOT! AND ONLY UNTIL YOU CAN'T SEE SAID CAR ANYMORE. Oh, they're out of sight? Then let's immediately forget one of our car was just shot up, resume patrolling"

That's the reasoning behind car chases. Immersion, a world reacting in the way it makes sense for it to react.

With that said, I fully agree with the implementation of a system as described in your self-quote.

(Shame on you! Self-quoting!)
 
No, the reasoning is that there is literally no universe in which it makes sense that I can stop my vehicle next to a cop car with a or multiple cops inside, commit a crime and the only reaction is the cops coming out of their car to shoot at me.
With this i would have 0 problem if implemented, but many people when asking for car chases are not thinking about that i fear.
 
With this i would have 0 problem if implemented, but many people when asking for car chases are not thinking about that i fear.
Yes your system also makes sense to me; if it was correctly implemented in the game since day 1 (and chases weren't advertized on game promotion, plus kerry's mission plus Claire missions hinting at a supposedly working feature) I don't think we would have people complaining about the police system because it would be a working one. The problem with the current system is that it presents itself as something that doesn't work in practice.
Edit: @Didacgomes I was aiming to reply to your previous post.
 
With this i would have 0 problem if implemented, but many people when asking for car chases are not thinking about that i fear.

Personally I think very few people actually want a "hundreds of police heading your way" GTA-styled system in CP2077. From what I've seen there is such aversion to GTA here (the forum in general) that any mention summons what I can only describe as irrational hatred for whatever arguments the supporters of a system change are presenting regardless of what it is.

I'm not anyway. I want a system that makes sense. MaxTac being the end of you the second they're sent your way makes all the sense in the world. Just like cops using the tools at their disposition, including their cars.
 
In PnP basically the game director takes your character sheet away from you if you start to accumulate that type of behaviour, ask you to roll a new character and if he/she feels a little bit sadistic your 1st quest with the new character implies either you killing your old character,or your old character is trying to kill you. You can even lose humanity by "mistakes"( i did a shootout i killed a poor kid accidentally,i'm not a psychopath so i have nightmares at night),
In computer games,Bloodlines has both Masquerade and Humanity points that works that way... even if you are a "monster" the devs didn't allow you to unleash the beast.
This would have been a good system in cp2077 for police: you hit 0 points humanity MaxTac appears and 1 shots you.
Just add humanity as an attribute at character creation that you cannot recover when leveling, but you can lose by killing "non-mission targets"-killing a cop, in cold blood in the middle of the street not involved in a mission should be punished i think-with perhaps some quests (free helping NPCs, there are few of them) that allow to recover some. Remove spawning cops,just fixed control posts(they don't have budget anymore for patrols) without reinforcements.
This adds a mechanic that respects lore and allows player freedom with some margin (say humanity minimum 3 at character creation,10 maximum,5 "non-hostile kills cost you a point of humanity, between 15 to 50 innocents killed...i doubt i killed by accident more than five, but give some freedom).
I don't think it's necessary to implement new character features / rules. Like @ooodrin mentioned, rampages would lead to end game state: No Fixer would be willing to work with mass murdering lunatic. And I think CDRP figured it the same way. They could still flesh it out a bit. Like @GrimReaper801 mentioned, it's would result player reloading previous save and that's about it.

@Didacgomez What do you think about patrolling AV's I mentioned in OP. Besides discussing about better NCDP in Night City, how do you see law enforcement signaling things to player, as we never see but that one AV scene with Jackie?

For me chase scenes in Night City don't make sense with law enforcement with drones, but do you think that's signaled well to players? I can see smuggling runs in and out of Night City skirts to Badlands working for chases and ambush variations etc. but that's about it.
 

Guest 3847602

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For me chase scenes in Night City don't make sense with law enforcement with drones, but do you think that's signaled well to players?
They've got automated turrets all over the city, too. Activated at 4 stars, one shot and you're dead. I think the game makes it pretty obvious that the intention isn't for police to play with you, but to prevent you from causing mayhem as quickly as possible.
I can see smuggling runs in and out of Night City skirts to Badlands working for chases and ambush variations etc. but that's about it.
In theory, car chases could work in Pacifica as well.

Imo, the biggest mistake is tying the wanted level cooldown to distance instead of timer.
 
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They've got automated turrets all over the city, too. Activated at 4 stars, one shot and you're dead. I think the game makes it pretty obvious that the intention isn't for police to play with you, but to prevent you from causing mayhem as quickly as possible.
I have one 100% playthrough and two very close to that completion and I was under impression that turrets were for private security only. Maybe there's something in game world that could be shown player a bit more clearly. Something I could think would be scene playing in elevator TV screens, what happens. :p
In theory, car chases could work in Pacifica as well.

Imo, the biggest mistake is tying the wanted level cooldown to distance instead of timer.
Pacifica has some bottlenecks on roads that could go either way. Mercenaries there could take their shot for bounty, but that's pretty much that as the Voodoo Boys aren't in the picture all the time and other faction there is are the Scavengers.

From my memory and studying the paper map that came with disc edition and with this online map, there could be pick up location / delivery location in West Wind Estate, somewhere at El Camino del Mar and route would go through Biotechnica Flats solar farm or tunnel to Badlands and from there staying on Badlands, either to eastern border or towards east via Rattlesnake Creek and then north on road going between Jackson plains and Laguna Bend. Then past Santo Domingo. End / start point could be close to north eastern skirts of Watson too.

Faction opportunities would be After Life mercs, Scavs, Militech (Badlands) and perhaps NCPD near Watson. Something like this could work as smuggling route in or out from city, goods coming or leaving the city via sea. (hence El Camino del Mar).
 
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