[SPOILERS] Soulkiller technology

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In the first meeting, Alt says that she will record consciousness and engram, but the soul will cease to exist.
But then in the final after Mikoshi Alt says that V will continue to live as before if he returns to his body.

Are there any other references in the game about the soul and what does it mean?
Does soulkiller really transfer the real V? Do we see the new copied V in the epilogue?
I ask you not to speculate and to show facts from the game itself or lore if it's possible.
When you finish that quest were some maelstromers had kidnapped two monks, later on you can talk to them about conscience, engrams and live in general.
So, what they say is pretty much that if something is sentient then is alive, therefore it has a soul.
I dont want to start a discussion about what a soul is and its transcendence (or lack thereof) but its s bit too extreme for me to think that V is soulless just because some AI says so...
I felt his soul pretty clearly riding towards the horizon with Panam...
 
I don't think that post-Mikoshi V is soulless, just not the same soul.

We don't really know what the soul or consciousness is but Soulkiller seems to just be making a digital copy of memories and neural networks. It doesn't have any way to transfer consciousness.

Arasaka keeps multiple copies of engrams. If all the copies were transferred into different bodies, where is the one soul they were copied from? I don't think there is any preservation of the original V's stream of consciousness after Soulkiller. Original V pretty much died there and a copy picked up the baton. Essentially one being is lost and one is created. A copy with the same memories and neural network would not feel the difference.

The only original V that survives is the Devil ending.
 
even good thread starts to turn into trash, where, despite the request for proofs from the game or the universe, someones post a bunch of personal speculations
 
You mean how Star Trek transporter actually kills you and it's just your copy going on away missions....

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When you finish that quest were some maelstromers had kidnapped two monks, later on you can talk to them about conscience, engrams and live in general.
So, what they say is pretty much that if something is sentient then is alive, therefore it has a soul.
I dont want to start a discussion about what a soul is and its transcendence (or lack thereof) but its s bit too extreme for me to think that V is soulless just because some AI says so...
I felt his soul pretty clearly riding towards the horizon with Panam...

That's not quite right.

To summarize:
- He questions if it's a copy or a transfer - something we've been discussing here. And not found a complete answer, as far as i've read, in what the game tells us.
- He says that he considers the perfect copy of a human mind, still as a human. But he's not sure if it has a Souls, because that would mean it needed to be able to be reincarnated.
- In regards towards Digitalization of a person - he doesn't judge the transferal of a person (if the person is okay with it). But such a digitalized mind will be trapped in another body. Someone immortal cannot die and not be born into a better world or find nirvana.

So funnily enough, he makes the existence of a soul there exactly about transcendence or lack thereof.

But he's not really talking about Soulkiller.
 
That's not quite right.

To summarize:
- He questions if it's a copy or a transfer - something we've been discussing here. And not found a complete answer, as far as i've read, in what the game tells us.
- He says that he considers the perfect copy of a human mind, still as a human. But he's not sure if it has a Souls, because that would mean it needed to be able to be reincarnated.
- In regards towards Digitalization of a person - he doesn't judge the transferal of a person (if the person is okay with it). But such a digitalized mind will be trapped in another body. Someone immortal cannot die and not be born into a better world or find nirvana.

So funnily enough, he makes the existence of a soul there exactly about transcendence or lack thereof.

But he's not really talking about Soulkiller.
No, he is talking about the relic, close enough. And of course they, as well as anybody on earth dont know anything about soul transcendence, so who knows about reincarnation.
But, in general lines, they are saying that if you are sentient, if you are able to suffer, you are human, despite your reincarnation potential.
So, as far as they are concerned, soulkilled V is a person as any other.
Thing here is that is easy to talk about the soul in real life context, as in based in our own beliefs, thats what i meant whith discussing about transcendence...
Anyway, if there is a soul, it must be hard to kill it using a pc program
 
In the first meeting, Alt says that she will record consciousness and engram, but the soul will cease to exist.
But then in the final after Mikoshi Alt says that V will continue to live as before if he returns to his body.

Are there any other references in the game about the soul and what does it mean?
Does soulkiller really transfer the real V? Do we see the new copied V in the epilogue?
I ask you not to speculate and to show facts from the game itself or lore if it's possible.
According to Cyberpunk wiki "If the host is still connected to the Soulkiller the engram can be transferred back to the host's body and overwrite any previous engram's on it, giving V a chance to overwrite Johnny Silverhand's psyche and memories from their brain while keeping their consciousness and memories." So I think that means V is still the same V.
 
Consciousness is generated by the brain's organic "hardware", not the brain's memories and personality "software", so unless you transplant a new brain into V's skull, V's conciousness will be the same after they wake up from Mikoshi. Their personality and memories will be different, either just very slightly different if their own engram was sent back to their body, or completely different if Johnny's engram was sent back. But regardless of which engram was sent back, it will be V's original, biological consciousness, the same consciousness they've had since the very start of the game.

This is also why Secure Your Soul is a false promise of immortality, because Arasaka's Soulkiller doesn't transfer a person's consciousness, it merely copies their memories and personality into an engram, and the Relic uses that engram as a blueprint to overwrite the memories and personality of the Relic's host body, meaning the original Soulkilled person is permanently dead and the new host of their engram has merely been brainwashed into thinking they are the original Soulkilled person.

Ergo, in the Devil ending it's not the consciousness of the real Saburo Arasaka occupying his son's body, it's Yorinobu Arasaka having had his original personality and memories destroyed and replaced with the personality and memories of his father while his biological consciousness stays the same. In every scenario, the real Saburo Arasaka remains dead. To bring back the real Saburo they'd have to resurrect his body.
 
In the first meeting, Alt says that she will record consciousness and engram, but the soul will cease to exist.
But then in the final after Mikoshi Alt says that V will continue to live as before if he returns to his body.

Are there any other references in the game about the soul and what does it mean?
Does soulkiller really transfer the real V? Do we see the new copied V in the epilogue?
I ask you not to speculate and to show facts from the game itself or lore if it's possible.
Hmm maybe this will help you.
Emagine the whole live is nothing more like Digital states like "0" and "1" or "boolean=true/false". The value Transformation of what you still are to where or what you wanted to be.
Alt only had the problem with V "state of DNA" and the body V still is having.
If you are heading the Story with arasaka in space, V's whole life (experience and so on) will be "saved Digital" and game is ending or you are chosing the way of "staying alive" with that body you are having since the accident.

In the end IT is only the Romance you are having which is the problem because for example Panam is going to hunt Silverhand if He is controling the body of V because indirectly silverhand killed and directly stole the body of V. So if life is really a "Digital state" then for this "Digital state" it is also important what body this "Digital state" is belonging to.
So romances are mabye more then bits and bytes. But if dna is also only bits and bytes and "Digital States" then....... nothing is real and Feelings aren't also real........ Argh...... Could endless go on like this. Vicious circle......like the question... :if you had created the water.... how would you have it done?

Hmpf sorry :D
 
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please read the first post carefully
we need proof from the game or lore, not personal speculations or headcanon
wiki is not a lore
 
Consciousness is generated by the brain's organic "hardware", not the brain's memories and personality "software"
That's just one theory about it. The other, more popular nowadays is that the brain is the receiver of counciosness, working similiar to radio tuning in to certain frequency, so our mind according to this theory is not even in the brain to be precise, at least not fully.
 
That's just one theory about it. The other, more popular nowadays is that the brain is the receiver of counciosness, working similiar to radio tuning in to certain frequency, so our mind according to this theory is not even in the brain to be precise, at least not fully.

I heard this theory too, and it explains why a person can hold practically limitless amount of information without you saying "the disk is full". I think it's called "biocentrism" which says that the universe was created for intelligence, not the other way around. I personally think evolution is bull because it doesn't explain how random chances can create the complexity of life when everything in this universe shows that random chance tends to create disorder, not order.
 
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